O.T. Crude Oil Flow

[olympusE1]

I have an off-topic question I am posting only because of the depth of
knowledge (campbell and his assorted sock puppets aside) found on this
group is nothing short of amazing. That said, here goes.

Say, for example, I wanted to cut into an active, three foot diameter,
600 PSI light sweet crude pipeline and place a valve on it through
which I could siphon roughly 1000 metric tons in the space of three
hours.

How large a hole would I have to drill?

Don't laugh. I know that it's nearly (if not utterly) impossible to
do, especially considering the fact that the author of the article in
a rather well-known general interest publication claimed it was being
done, underwater, in a sealed "home made" caisson with alarming
regularity by militants using, at best, primitive tools.

Thoughts?

al staats

[Philippe Vessaire]

olympusE1 wrote:

> Say, for example, I wanted to cut into an active, three foot diameter,
> 600 PSI light sweet crude pipeline and place a valve on it through
> which I could siphon roughly 1000 metric tons in the space of three
> hours.

Just try Nigerian news group....


--
La vanille appartient à ceux qui se lèvent tôt;
il faudrait écrire ça tous les soirs dans son cornet.
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

[olympusE1]

On Feb 17, 11:01 am, Philippe Vessaire > wrote:
> olympusE1 wrote:
> > Say, for example, I wanted to cut into an active, three foot diameter,
> > 600 PSI light sweet crude pipeline and place a valve on it through
> > which I could siphon roughly 1000 metric tons in the space of three
> > hours.
>
> Just try Nigerian news group....
>
> --
> La vanille appartient à ceux qui se lèvent tôt;
> il faudrait écrire ça tous les soirs dans son cornet.
> Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

....thanks, Phillippe, but I thought I would go for something more
accurate.

[Maxwell]

"olympusE1" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I have an off-topic question I am posting only because of the depth of
> knowledge (campbell and his assorted sock puppets aside) found on this
> group is nothing short of amazing. That said, here goes.
>
> Say, for example, I wanted to cut into an active, three foot diameter,
> 600 PSI light sweet crude pipeline and place a valve on it through
> which I could siphon roughly 1000 metric tons in the space of three
> hours.
>
> How large a hole would I have to drill?
>
> Don't laugh. I know that it's nearly (if not utterly) impossible to
> do, especially considering the fact that the author of the article in
> a rather well-known general interest publication claimed it was being
> done, underwater, in a sealed "home made" caisson with alarming
> regularity by militants using, at best, primitive tools.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> al staats
>

What makes you think it would be difficult to do?

[Tom Wait]

"olympusE1" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I have an off-topic question I am posting only because of the depth of
> knowledge (campbell and his assorted sock puppets aside) found on this
> group is nothing short of amazing. That said, here goes.
>
> Say, for example, I wanted to cut into an active, three foot diameter,
> 600 PSI light sweet crude pipeline and place a valve on it through
> which I could siphon roughly 1000 metric tons in the space of three
> hours.
>
> How large a hole would I have to drill?
>
> Don't laugh. I know that it's nearly (if not utterly) impossible to
> do, especially considering the fact that the author of the article in
> a rather well-known general interest publication claimed it was being
> done, underwater, in a sealed "home made" caisson with alarming
> regularity by militants using, at best, primitive tools.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> al staats
>
Plumbers do this on water pipes. It's called a hot tap. A special fitting
consisting of a saddle clamp with a ball valve attached is clamped to the
pressurized pipe. Another section of pipe with a liquid tite bushing with a
shaft through it is connected to the other end of the valve. A hole saw is
fixed to the inner end of the shaft. A drill motor is on the outside. When
it's all buttoned up the valve is opened and the hole saw is used to cut the
hole in the hot pipe through the valve. When the hole is finished the hole
saw withdrawn through the valve, the valve shut off and the outer pipe
removed. Now put a bucket under the outlet and open the valve to steal your
oil. I'll leave the size of the hole to the math wizards. Careful, don't get
caught!!
Tom

[olympusE1]

>
> What makes you think it would be difficult to do?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

....oh, constructing a caisson underwater in a swamp, emptying it,
drilling a hole through an inch or so of hardened steel to get at
crude oil at roughly 600 PSI, capping and tapping the hole, and then
grabbing 1000 metric tonnes or so of crude... the usual.

alan

[Vaughn Simon]

"olympusE1" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> ...oh, constructing a caisson underwater in a swamp, emptying it,
> drilling a hole through an inch or so of hardened steel to get at
> crude oil at roughly 600 PSI, capping and tapping the hole, and then
> grabbing 1000 metric tonnes or so of crude... the usual.

Nothing particularly difficult about the caisson, but I wonder why it would
be needed. Why not use diving gear?

As others have stated, the hardware to tap the pipe is common. I have seen
it in use by our local water utility.

Vaughn

[Alphonse Le Creur[_1_]]

"olympusE1" > wrote in
ups.com:

> I have an off-topic question I am posting only because of the depth of
> knowledge (campbell and his assorted sock puppets aside) found on this
> group is nothing short of amazing. That said, here goes.
>
> Say, for example, I wanted to cut into an active, three foot diameter,
> 600 PSI light sweet crude pipeline and place a valve on it through
> which I could siphon roughly 1000 metric tons in the space of three
> hours.
>
> How large a hole would I have to drill?
>
> Don't laugh. I know that it's nearly (if not utterly) impossible to
> do, especially considering the fact that the author of the article in
> a rather well-known general interest publication claimed it was being
> done, underwater, in a sealed "home made" caisson with alarming
> regularity by militants using, at best, primitive tools.
>
> Thoughts?
>

I think you might consider asking on soc.culture.nigeria. Many people
there have some considerable expertise in this.

Though you might find it hard to hook up with a survivor.

http://www.counterpunch.org/watts01022007.html

[Robert Bonomi]

In article >,
anon > wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 20:27:03 GMT, "Tom Wait"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"olympusE1" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>>> I have an off-topic question I am posting only because of the depth of
>>> knowledge (campbell and his assorted sock puppets aside) found on this
>>> group is nothing short of amazing. That said, here goes.
>>>
>>> Say, for example, I wanted to cut into an active, three foot diameter,
>>> 600 PSI light sweet crude pipeline and place a valve on it through
>>> which I could siphon roughly 1000 metric tons in the space of three
>>> hours.
>>>
>>> How large a hole would I have to drill?
>>>
>>> Don't laugh. I know that it's nearly (if not utterly) impossible to
>>> do, especially considering the fact that the author of the article in
>>> a rather well-known general interest publication claimed it was being
>>> done, underwater, in a sealed "home made" caisson with alarming
>>> regularity by militants using, at best, primitive tools.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> al staats
>>>
>>Plumbers do this on water pipes. It's called a hot tap. A special fitting
>>consisting of a saddle clamp with a ball valve attached is clamped to the
>>pressurized pipe. Another section of pipe with a liquid tite bushing with a
>>shaft through it is connected to the other end of the valve. A hole saw is
>>fixed to the inner end of the shaft. A drill motor is on the outside. When
>>it's all buttoned up the valve is opened and the hole saw is used to cut the
>>hole in the hot pipe through the valve. When the hole is finished the hole
>>saw withdrawn through the valve, the valve shut off and the outer pipe
>>removed. Now put a bucket under the outlet and open the valve to steal your
>>oil. I'll leave the size of the hole to the math wizards. Careful, don't get
>>caught!!
>>Tom
>
>The math looks reasonable. 1000 metric tonns in 3 hours is about 1750
>gallons per minute. IIRC, oil pipelines run the internal velocity at
>less than 30 fps. That would mean your tap would be 2.5" or the size
>of a large fire hose.

I've got to take issue with your math. a 2.5" diameter pipe, has a
cross-section of only 0.034 sq.ft. at 30 fps, that's 1.02 cu ft/sec.
or 61.2 cu. ft. min. which equates to under 500gpm. did you use
_diameter_ squared in your calculation, instead of _radius_ ?? <grin>

I also take issue with the 30fps pipeline velocity.. Recent news stories
discuss a 42" pipeline, with a capacity of 1,000,000 bbls/day. the
math on that works out to a velocity of a hair over 6.7fps.

Basis those 42" pipeline specifications, you need a tap somewhat over 10"
in diameter to pass 1000 m.t. in 3 hours. That tap will drop the overall
flow velocity by about 10%, necessitating a corresponding increase in the
tap cross-section area to compensate. Works out to about a 10.3" diameter.

>
>Not easy, but at that rate you're stealing about $2500 per minute. So
>it would be worth it to make the effort.
>
>OTOH, that's 315,000 gallons. Unless you're tapping off the pipeline
>into a waiting tanker ship, where are you going to put it?

Heck, that's the -EASY- part. it requires 'merely' 10 full-size railroad
tank cars, or 40 semi-trailer tank cars. Or about 150 military '6x6' trucks,
each with 50 barrels in the back, if you need 'off-road' capability.

Digging the hole and carrying the cassion to get to the pipeline is no
big deal. Requires nothing more than pick-and-shovel labor, although it
goes significantly faster with power equipment.

Cutting the tap into the pipeline *IS* a 'solved problem', as others have
pointed out.

However, the tooling for that hot-tap is -heavy-. As is the _pipe_ to carry
the material from the tap to where you load the transport vehicle(s).

Moving -that- stuff into position take lots of muscle. Either lots of people,
or substantial amounts of 'significant' power equipment.


I could see an Army 'Engineers' _company_ doing it. Given an 'in advance'
site survey, a month for planning and pre-positioning of resource, and 3
days (minimum) of execution *before* starting the '3 hours' of the tap
running. Add another 24-48 hours after you turn the tap 'off', to reclaim
_most_ of the resources deployed on-site, rather than simple abandonment
'in situ'.

Absent access to large quantities of heavy equipment -- especially transport
vehicles -- and *significant* manpower (as in being able to assemble a 'crew'
of several _hundred_ people with the requisite skill-sets) I don't see it
as 'practical'.

[Hugh Prescott]

And most modern pipelines are so well monitored with computerized flow
meters etc that they can shut down if a leak developes.

And the size of the tap to get the flow rate you need for a 3 hour
fill is a BIG leak.

Probably would be sensed and the pumping shut down in less than 15
minutes.

Shortly thereafter the helios looking for the leak would arrive.

Hugh

[Roberto Waltman]

"olympusE1" wrote:
Philippe Vessaire > wrote:
>> olympusE1 wrote:
>> > Say, for example, I wanted to cut into an active, three foot diameter,
>> > 600 PSI light sweet crude pipeline and ...
>>
>> Just try Nigerian news group....
>>
>...thanks, Phillippe, but I thought I would go for something more
>accurate.

Oh! In that case try sci.mech.fluids and
sci.physics.computational.fluid-dynamics ;)

Roberto Waltman

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