artificial horizon

[DavidH]

Greetings flying folk,
I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
My needs are to provide some assistance when
VFR and the vis is poorly
or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
..
Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
many thanks
David Hill

[Joe Kultgen[_2_]]

"DavidH" > wrote in
ups.com:

> Greetings flying folk,
> I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
> My needs are to provide some assistance when
> VFR and the vis is poorly
> or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
> or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
> .
> Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
> many thanks
> David Hill
>
>

A couple of suggestions.

Don't fly VFR on top.

Get your buns back on the ground when the weather *begins* to get iffy.

Make me the beneficiary on your life insurance.

Or get an instrument ticket, equip your panel for IFR, and practice
enough to be comfortable in the soup.

Playing "partial panel" games in conditions that are "marginal" VFR is
kissing the cobra. Sooner or later you will get bit. I'm not trying to
be insulting. I just don't need to read about another guy who *almost*
made it home safe.

Later,
Joe Kultgen

[DavidH]

On Feb 23, 4:13 pm, Joe Kultgen > wrote:
> "DavidH" > wrote roups.com:
>
> > Greetings flying folk,
> > I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
> > My needs are to provide some assistance when
> > VFR and the vis is poorly
> > or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
> > or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
> > .
> > Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
> > many thanks
> > David Hill
>
> A couple of suggestions.
>
> Don't fly VFR on top.
>
> Get your buns back on the ground when the weather *begins* to get iffy.
>
> Make me the beneficiary on your life insurance.
>
> Or get an instrument ticket, equip your panel for IFR, and practice
> enough to be comfortable in the soup.
>
> Playing "partial panel" games in conditions that are "marginal" VFR is
> kissing the cobra. Sooner or later you will get bit. I'm not trying to
> be insulting. I just don't need to read about another guy who *almost*
> made it home safe.
>
> Later,
> Joe Kultgen

Joe
I don't disagree with any of your post.
I do have the instrument ticket
but no longer have the income that supported hiring IFR aircraft.
Now a retired old bloke who enjoys pottering the sky at 60knots
and who would still like to improve the "keeping the wings level"
information on my rag and tube flying machine.
thanks for your imput
sincere thanks that is
Davidh

[Vaughn Simon]

"DavidH" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
> many thanks

Scroll to the bottom of this page: http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page22.htm

Vaughn


> David Hill
>

[Stealth Pilot]

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:13:39 GMT, Joe Kultgen >
wrote:

>"DavidH" > wrote in
ups.com:
>
>> Greetings flying folk,
>> I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
>> My needs are to provide some assistance when
>> VFR and the vis is poorly
>> or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
>> or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
>> .
>> Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
>> many thanks
>> David Hill
>>
>>
>
>A couple of suggestions.
>
>Don't fly VFR on top.
>
>Get your buns back on the ground when the weather *begins* to get iffy.
>
>Make me the beneficiary on your life insurance.
>
>Or get an instrument ticket, equip your panel for IFR, and practice
>enough to be comfortable in the soup.
>
>Playing "partial panel" games in conditions that are "marginal" VFR is
>kissing the cobra. Sooner or later you will get bit. I'm not trying to
>be insulting. I just don't need to read about another guy who *almost*
>made it home safe.
>
>Later,
>Joe Kultgen

I'm with david. my day vfr tailwind has an AH fitted and it has saved
my bacon on 3 occasions now.
I dont fly deliberately into anything opaque but I'll warrant that if
you fly regularly enough you'll get overtaken by the fluffy stuff
eventually.

david a reliable day vfr system with the addition of an AH is all you
should need. that and a garmin gps.

Stealth Pilot

[CW Crane]

"DavidH" > wrote:

>Greetings flying folk,
>I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
>My needs are to provide some assistance when
>VFR and the vis is poorly
>or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
>or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
>.
>Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
>many thanks
>David Hill

How about a turn coordinator with a small venturi vacuum source?

CW Crane

[Wayne Paul]

Here is another option http://www.oxaero.com/TruTrak.asp

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/


"CW Crane" > wrote in message
...
> "DavidH" > wrote:
>
>>Greetings flying folk,
>>I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
>>My needs are to provide some assistance when
>>VFR and the vis is poorly
>>or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
>>or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
>>.
>>Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
>>many thanks
>>David Hill
>
> How about a turn coordinator with a small venturi vacuum source?
>
> CW Crane

[Dan[_2_]]

CW Crane wrote:
> "DavidH" > wrote:
>
>> Greetings flying folk,
>> I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
>> My needs are to provide some assistance when
>> VFR and the vis is poorly
>> or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
>> or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
>> .
>> Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
>> many thanks
>> David Hill
>
> How about a turn coordinator with a small venturi vacuum source?
>
> CW Crane

Carry a cat and a duck with you. If you get lost heave the duck out
and follow it. If you aren't sure of which way is up heave the cat out
and see which way it points its feet since they always land on their
feet. I admit it's kind of hard on the cat, but they are cheaper than
mechanical indicators.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Al G[_1_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> CW Crane wrote:
>> "DavidH" > wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings flying folk,
>>> I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
>>> My needs are to provide some assistance when
>>> VFR and the vis is poorly
>>> or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
>>> or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
>>> .
>>> Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
>>> many thanks
>>> David Hill
>>
>> How about a turn coordinator with a small venturi vacuum source?
>>
>> CW Crane
>
> Carry a cat and a duck with you. If you get lost heave the duck out and
> follow it. If you aren't sure of which way is up heave the cat out and see
> which way it points its feet since they always land on their feet. I admit
> it's kind of hard on the cat, but they are cheaper than mechanical
> indicators.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

If you get a cat with only a couple of lives left, he will stick to the
bottom
of the cabin, even if that is the roof. You don't even have to throw him
out, just
roll until he lands on the same floor you use. Be careful following the
duck, sometimes they will "duck" under and land in the pond.

Al G

[Joe Kultgen[_3_]]

"DavidH" > wrote in
ups.com:

>> Playing "partial panel" games in conditions that are "marginal" VFR
>> is kissing the cobra. Sooner or later you will get bit. I'm not
>> trying to be insulting. I just don't need to read about another guy
>> who *almost* made it home safe.
>>
>> Later,
>> Joe Kultgen
>
> Joe
> I don't disagree with any of your post.
> I do have the instrument ticket
> but no longer have the income that supported hiring IFR aircraft.
> Now a retired old bloke who enjoys pottering the sky at 60knots
> and who would still like to improve the "keeping the wings level"
> information on my rag and tube flying machine.
> thanks for your imput
> sincere thanks that is
> Davidh
>

You're welcome, and thanks for taking it in the spirit it was offered.

Back when I was actively aviating I was strictly a daylight VFR person.

From your comments I'm sure you've been around long enough to have heard
the old saw about how a non-pilot, who sits in a plane and fools with the
controls long enough, will convince himself that he can fly. I can't say
how much truth there is to that. With the exception of an occasional
homebuilder I doubt that many non-pilots find themselves in that
position.

What I can say from personal experience, and the accident stats back me
up, is that a VFR pilot flying a plane with an IFR panel is much more
likely to find himself in conditions he isn't prepared to cope with.
Having the extra information available *can* make things safer. You're
the only one who knows exactly what your current skill set is and if you
have the self discipline to avoid cutting your safety margin because now
you also have "plan B". For myself I can't help wondering how many
people would be alive today if they had only a simple panel instead of
all the info they needed to get to that smoking hole in the landscape.

Fly safe, Fly often,

Joe

[DavidH]

Joe,
you did say
............
> What I can say from personal experience, and the accident stats back me
> up, is that a VFR pilot flying a plane with an IFR panel is much more
> likely to find himself in conditions he isn't prepared to cope with.
> Having the extra information available *can* make things safer. .......
..
I do have the dilemma of knowing whether a slightly "better" panel is
insurance or is merely an invitation to get into trouble.
..
I dare say that we are all to one degree or another susceptible to the
"it's there so I'd better use it" syndrome and consequently do need to
recognise the potential for getting ourselves beyond our skill/
currency levels.
..
Current thinking is that I will probably install one of the
Stratomaster electronic attitude indicators/turn co-ordinators.
best wishes
Davidh

[Mark Hickey]

"DavidH" > wrote:

>Joe,
>you did say
>...........
>> What I can say from personal experience, and the accident stats back me
>> up, is that a VFR pilot flying a plane with an IFR panel is much more
>> likely to find himself in conditions he isn't prepared to cope with.
>> Having the extra information available *can* make things safer. .......
>.
>I do have the dilemma of knowing whether a slightly "better" panel is
>insurance or is merely an invitation to get into trouble.
>.
>I dare say that we are all to one degree or another susceptible to the
>"it's there so I'd better use it" syndrome and consequently do need to
>recognise the potential for getting ourselves beyond our skill/
>currency levels.

The answer's simple - just buy a hood and fly under it once in a while
(with a co-pilot, of course) to prove to yourself that you've invested
wisely. No risk, and all the same fun of "ignoring the seat of your
pants".

Mark "or you could paint your windows black" Hickey

[Joe Kultgen[_3_]]

"DavidH" > wrote in
oups.com:

> Current thinking is that I will probably install one of the
> Stratomaster electronic attitude indicators/turn co-ordinators.
> best wishes
> Davidh
>

I had some extra money back when I was learning to fly and was fortunate
enough to have an instructor that liked to play after we'd covered what
was in the sylabus. At that time VFR flight instruction included enough
"hood time" that you wouldn't go into a blind panic if you somehow got
distracted and flew into a cloud. I gladly paid for a couple extra hours
of air time to practice partial panel IFR recovery from unusual
attitudes. If the FBO had a trainer rated for spins I'd have paid for
that as well. Instead we simulated multiple system failures. (You've
got a broken control cable. try to land with only throttle, trim, and
rudder....Oops, you're also out of gas...Didn't do much of a pre-flight
did you?) I wasn't trying to be ready for anything. It was more like
cultivating a mindset of "Do something constructive with whatever you
have left in the time you have available."

On my second take off after I soloed I lost a vacuum pump right after the
nose was up high enough I couldn't see over it. When the AH flopped over
sideways I very nearly did the same. It was a clear sunny day so looking
out the windows took care of the problem. What shocked me was how close
I came to seriously screwing up due to a faulty readout from an
instrument I didn't need to fly the plane. Since then I've tended to
regard anything the flight instruments tell me as "second hand news".
Interesting, and sometimes vital, information but not to be trusted if
there's a better source available. :-)

The Stratomaster line looks like good gear. The only thing I'd suggest
is that you get in the habit of turning it off now and then. If you find
you're actually using it you might want to install a non-electric backup.

Just a thought,
Joe K

[rpellicciotti]

On Feb 22, 8:37 pm, "DavidH" > wrote:
> Greetings flying folk,
> I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
> My needs are to provide some assistance when
> VFR and the vis is poorly
> or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
> or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
> .
> Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
> many thanks
> David Hill

I like the TruTrak ADI a lot. I have installed several of them in VFR
aircraft. Spend a little extra on the battery backup and the GPS
option. This one instrument will give you attitude, heading, airspeed
even if everything else in the airplane is not working.

http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ttfsinstruments.html

Rick Pellicciotti
Belle Aire Aviation, Inc.
http://www.belleaireaviation.com

[[email protected]]

On 2ÔÂ24ÈÕ, ÉÏÎç4ʱ53·Ö, Dan > wrote:
> CW Crane wrote:
> > "DavidH" > wrote:
>
> >> Greetings flying folk,
> >> I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
> >> My needs are to provide some assistance when
> >> VFR and the vis is poorly
> >> or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
> >> or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
> >> .
> >> Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
> >> many thanks
> >> David Hill
>
> > How about a turn coordinator with a small venturi vacuum source?
>
> > CW Crane
>
> Carry a cat and a duck with you. If you get lost heave the duck out
> and follow it. If you aren't sure of which way is up heave the cat out
> and see which way it points its feet since they always land on their
> feet. I admit it's kind of hard on the cat, but they are cheaper than
> mechanical indicators.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Òþ²Ø±»ÒýÓÃÎÄ×Ö -
>
> - ÏÔʾÒýÓõÄÎÄ×Ö -

Good idear! I suggested my boss to produce cats and ducks. It is
easy!!

Luo
http://www.ming-da.com