Nothing but F-8s, Part 1 - index1.jpg (1/1) [51K]

[Netko]

The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.

You've heard it all before but I'll say it again: all credit
belongs to the original photographers, scanners and posters and
huzzah for them.

Corrections and comments are most welcome, as are more pictures,
particularly of Phil AF F-8s - I don't seem to have any of these.

--

[Enzo Matrix]

Netko wrote:
> The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
> Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.

LOL

May I say that you are a complete and utter star? F-8 pictures are *always*
welcome! :-D

--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

[CD[_3_]]

"Netko" > wrote in message
x.com...
> The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
> Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.
>

Thanks for the photo series Netko. Though I would Google the F-8 Crusaders
for a bit of research and found this interesting story at wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-8_Crusader

In October 1974 (on the Clemenceau) and June 1977 (on the Foch), planes from
14.F squadron participated to the Saphir missions over Djibouti. On May 7th
1977, two Crusaders went separately on patrol against supposedly French Air
Force (4/11 Jura squadron) F-100 Super Sabres stationed at Djibouti. The
leader intercepted two fighters and engaged a dogfight (supposed to be a
training exercise) but quickly called his wingman for help as he had
actually engaged two Yemenite Mig-21 Fishbed. The two French fighters
switched their master armament to "on", but in the end everyone returned to
his base. This was the only ever combat interception by a French Crusader.

Regards.....Chris

[Enzo Matrix]

CD wrote:
> "Netko" > wrote in message
> x.com...
>> The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
>> Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.
>>
>
> Thanks for the photo series Netko. Though I would Google the F-8
> Crusaders for a bit of research and found this interesting story at
> wikipedia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-8_Crusader
>
> In October 1974 (on the Clemenceau) and June 1977 (on the Foch),
> planes from 14.F squadron participated to the Saphir missions over
> Djibouti. On
> May 7th 1977, two Crusaders went separately on patrol against
> supposedly French Air Force (4/11 Jura squadron) F-100 Super Sabres
> stationed at Djibouti. The leader intercepted two fighters and
> engaged a dogfight (supposed to be a training exercise) but quickly
> called his wingman for help as he had actually engaged two Yemenite
> Mig-21 Fishbed. The two French fighters switched their master
> armament to "on", but in the end everyone returned to his base. This
> was the only ever combat interception by a French Crusader.


They went on a training mission with live ammunition? That doesn't sound
like a good idea.

A similar situation led to an RAF Phantom shooting down an RAF Jaguar on 25
May 1982. The Phantom, XV422 of 92 Sqn, had been on QRA duties and was fully
armed. After being released from Q, the aircraft was tasked on an exercise
sortie as part of Wildenrath's TACEVAL. Due to the exercise, there were no
groundcrew available to download the missiles and replace them with training
rounds, so the decision was made to allow the flight with live missiles.

The aircraft duly launched and intercepted a flight of incoming Jaguars. In
order to score a "kill" the master arm switch on the Phantom had to be
placed at "Arm" and the trigger squeezed to activate the gun camera. Of
course, all of this only served to actually fire a live missile! The pilot
later freely admitted that he had forgotten that the aircraft was carrying
live rounds.

The aircraft fired an AIM-9G, which shot down Jaguar GR1 XX963/AL of 14 Sqn.
Thankfully the Jaguar pilot ejected and was uninjured.

The practice of using live rounds on training missions was not actually
stopped, despite the recommendations of the subsequent Board of Inquiry, but
maintenance procedures were changed to ensure that the master arm switch was
lockwired in the "Safe" position.

--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

[CD[_3_]]

"Enzo Matrix" > wrote in message
...
> CD wrote:
>> "Netko" > wrote in message
>> x.com...
>>> The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
>>> Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the photo series Netko. Though I would Google the F-8
>> Crusaders for a bit of research and found this interesting story at
>> wikipedia
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-8_Crusader
>>
>> In October 1974 (on the Clemenceau) and June 1977 (on the Foch),
>> planes from 14.F squadron participated to the Saphir missions over
>> Djibouti. On
>> May 7th 1977, two Crusaders went separately on patrol against
>> supposedly French Air Force (4/11 Jura squadron) F-100 Super Sabres
>> stationed at Djibouti. The leader intercepted two fighters and
>> engaged a dogfight (supposed to be a training exercise) but quickly
>> called his wingman for help as he had actually engaged two Yemenite
>> Mig-21 Fishbed. The two French fighters switched their master
>> armament to "on", but in the end everyone returned to his base. This
>> was the only ever combat interception by a French Crusader.
>
>
> They went on a training mission with live ammunition? That doesn't sound
> like a good idea.
>
> A similar situation led to an RAF Phantom shooting down an RAF Jaguar on
> 25 May 1982. The Phantom, XV422 of 92 Sqn, had been on QRA duties and was
> fully armed. After being released from Q, the aircraft was tasked on an
> exercise sortie as part of Wildenrath's TACEVAL. Due to the exercise,
> there were no groundcrew available to download the missiles and replace
> them with training rounds, so the decision was made to allow the flight
> with live missiles.
>
> The aircraft duly launched and intercepted a flight of incoming Jaguars.
> In order to score a "kill" the master arm switch on the Phantom had to be
> placed at "Arm" and the trigger squeezed to activate the gun camera. Of
> course, all of this only served to actually fire a live missile! The pilot
> later freely admitted that he had forgotten that the aircraft was carrying
> live rounds.
>
> The aircraft fired an AIM-9G, which shot down Jaguar GR1 XX963/AL of 14
> Sqn. Thankfully the Jaguar pilot ejected and was uninjured.
>
> The practice of using live rounds on training missions was not actually
> stopped, despite the recommendations of the subsequent Board of Inquiry,
> but maintenance procedures were changed to ensure that the master arm
> switch was lockwired in the "Safe" position.
>

Thanks for the RAF story. Just 4 more kills and that RAF guy will be an ace!
As for the frogs. I wonder if they just claimed it was a training mission to
cover up some covert operation or this engagement?

[Paul Elliot]

CD wrote:
> "Netko" > wrote in message
> x.com...
>> The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
>> Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.
>>
>
> Thanks for the photo series Netko. Though I would Google the F-8 Crusaders
> for a bit of research and found this interesting story at wikipedia
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-8_Crusader
>
> In October 1974 (on the Clemenceau) and June 1977 (on the Foch), planes from
> 14.F squadron participated to the Saphir missions over Djibouti. On May 7th
> 1977, two Crusaders went separately on patrol against supposedly French Air
> Force (4/11 Jura squadron) F-100 Super Sabres stationed at Djibouti. The
> leader intercepted two fighters and engaged a dogfight (supposed to be a
> training exercise) but quickly called his wingman for help as he had
> actually engaged two Yemenite Mig-21 Fishbed. The two French fighters
> switched their master armament to "on", but in the end everyone returned to
> his base. This was the only ever combat interception by a French Crusader.
>
> Regards.....Chris
>
>

With MY luck I'd switch on the guns only to fine empty "training"
magazines...
ratta tatta tat!

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

[Paul Elliot]

Enzo Matrix wrote:
> CD wrote:
>> "Netko" > wrote in message
>> x.com...
>>> The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
>>> Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.
>>>
>> Thanks for the photo series Netko. Though I would Google the F-8
>> Crusaders for a bit of research and found this interesting story at
>> wikipedia
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-8_Crusader
>>
>> In October 1974 (on the Clemenceau) and June 1977 (on the Foch),
>> planes from 14.F squadron participated to the Saphir missions over
>> Djibouti. On
>> May 7th 1977, two Crusaders went separately on patrol against
>> supposedly French Air Force (4/11 Jura squadron) F-100 Super Sabres
>> stationed at Djibouti. The leader intercepted two fighters and
>> engaged a dogfight (supposed to be a training exercise) but quickly
>> called his wingman for help as he had actually engaged two Yemenite
>> Mig-21 Fishbed. The two French fighters switched their master
>> armament to "on", but in the end everyone returned to his base. This
>> was the only ever combat interception by a French Crusader.
>
>
> They went on a training mission with live ammunition? That doesn't sound
> like a good idea.
>
> A similar situation led to an RAF Phantom shooting down an RAF Jaguar on 25
> May 1982. The Phantom, XV422 of 92 Sqn, had been on QRA duties and was fully
> armed. After being released from Q, the aircraft was tasked on an exercise
> sortie as part of Wildenrath's TACEVAL. Due to the exercise, there were no
> groundcrew available to download the missiles and replace them with training
> rounds, so the decision was made to allow the flight with live missiles.
>
> The aircraft duly launched and intercepted a flight of incoming Jaguars. In
> order to score a "kill" the master arm switch on the Phantom had to be
> placed at "Arm" and the trigger squeezed to activate the gun camera. Of
> course, all of this only served to actually fire a live missile! The pilot
> later freely admitted that he had forgotten that the aircraft was carrying
> live rounds.
>
> The aircraft fired an AIM-9G, which shot down Jaguar GR1 XX963/AL of 14 Sqn.
> Thankfully the Jaguar pilot ejected and was uninjured.
>
> The practice of using live rounds on training missions was not actually
> stopped, despite the recommendations of the subsequent Board of Inquiry, but
> maintenance procedures were changed to ensure that the master arm switch was
> lockwired in the "Safe" position.
>

So...does the victor have the right to paint an RAF victory roundel on
his plane? ;-)

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

[Paul Elliot]

Netko wrote:
> The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
> Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.
>
> You've heard it all before but I'll say it again: all credit
> belongs to the original photographers, scanners and posters and
> huzzah for them.
>
> Corrections and comments are most welcome, as are more pictures,
> particularly of Phil AF F-8s - I don't seem to have any of these.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

F8s 4-ever!
Thanks!

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

[Enzo Matrix]

Paul Elliot wrote:
> Enzo Matrix wrote:
>> CD wrote:
>>> "Netko" > wrote in message
>>> x.com...
>>>> The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
>>>> Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.
>>>>
>>> Thanks for the photo series Netko. Though I would Google the F-8
>>> Crusaders for a bit of research and found this interesting story at
>>> wikipedia
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-8_Crusader
>>>
>>> In October 1974 (on the Clemenceau) and June 1977 (on the Foch),
>>> planes from 14.F squadron participated to the Saphir missions over
>>> Djibouti. On
>>> May 7th 1977, two Crusaders went separately on patrol against
>>> supposedly French Air Force (4/11 Jura squadron) F-100 Super Sabres
>>> stationed at Djibouti. The leader intercepted two fighters and
>>> engaged a dogfight (supposed to be a training exercise) but quickly
>>> called his wingman for help as he had actually engaged two Yemenite
>>> Mig-21 Fishbed. The two French fighters switched their master
>>> armament to "on", but in the end everyone returned to his base. This
>>> was the only ever combat interception by a French Crusader.
>>
>>
>> They went on a training mission with live ammunition? That doesn't
>> sound like a good idea.
>>
>> A similar situation led to an RAF Phantom shooting down an RAF
>> Jaguar on 25 May 1982. The Phantom, XV422 of 92 Sqn, had been on QRA
>> duties and was fully armed. After being released from Q, the
>> aircraft was tasked on an exercise sortie as part of Wildenrath's
>> TACEVAL. Due to the exercise, there were no groundcrew available to
>> download the missiles and replace them with training rounds, so the
>> decision was made to allow the flight with live missiles. The aircraft
>> duly launched and intercepted a flight of incoming
>> Jaguars. In order to score a "kill" the master arm switch on the
>> Phantom had to be placed at "Arm" and the trigger squeezed to
>> activate the gun camera. Of course, all of this only served to
>> actually fire a live missile! The pilot later freely admitted that
>> he had forgotten that the aircraft was carrying live rounds.
>>
>> The aircraft fired an AIM-9G, which shot down Jaguar GR1 XX963/AL of
>> 14 Sqn. Thankfully the Jaguar pilot ejected and was uninjured.
>>
>> The practice of using live rounds on training missions was not
>> actually stopped, despite the recommendations of the subsequent
>> Board of Inquiry, but maintenance procedures were changed to ensure
>> that the master arm switch was lockwired in the "Safe" position.
>>
>
> So...does the victor have the right to paint an RAF victory roundel on
> his plane? ;-)

XV422 was later transferred to 19 Sqn, where it was coded "J". Some wag
later added "aguar Killer" after the tail code! :-D


--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

[Enzo Matrix]

CD wrote:
> "Enzo Matrix" > wrote in message
> ...
>> CD wrote:
>>> "Netko" > wrote in message
>>> x.com...
>>>> The pictures in this post consist of nothing but F-8 Crusaders.
>>>> Apart, that is, from any A-7s which may have slipped through.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the photo series Netko. Though I would Google the F-8
>>> Crusaders for a bit of research and found this interesting story at
>>> wikipedia
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-8_Crusader
>>>
>>> In October 1974 (on the Clemenceau) and June 1977 (on the Foch),
>>> planes from 14.F squadron participated to the Saphir missions over
>>> Djibouti. On
>>> May 7th 1977, two Crusaders went separately on patrol against
>>> supposedly French Air Force (4/11 Jura squadron) F-100 Super Sabres
>>> stationed at Djibouti. The leader intercepted two fighters and
>>> engaged a dogfight (supposed to be a training exercise) but quickly
>>> called his wingman for help as he had actually engaged two Yemenite
>>> Mig-21 Fishbed. The two French fighters switched their master
>>> armament to "on", but in the end everyone returned to his base. This
>>> was the only ever combat interception by a French Crusader.
>>
>>
>> They went on a training mission with live ammunition? That doesn't
>> sound like a good idea.
<snip>
>
> Thanks for the RAF story. Just 4 more kills and that RAF guy will be
> an ace! As for the frogs. I wonder if they just claimed it was a
> training mission to cover up some covert operation or this engagement?

It's interesting to speculate what might have happened if the engagement had
resulted in an exchange of fire. The F-8 was a very potent fighter. During
the Vietnam way, F-8s accounted for four MiG-21 kills, without loss to
MiG-21s in return. MiG pilots were very wary of the F-8, as related in an
amusing story.

<Quote>
Quoted from "F-8 Crusader units of the Vietnam war" by Peter Mersky,
published by Osprey.

There is, however, one last, controversial F-8 kill - that of VF-211's Lt
Jerry Tucker on 23 May 1972. It wasn't as if the "Checkmates" had nothing to
do, for they had been quite busy supporting the intense war on the ground,
delivering bombs and rockets against Communist positions in the face of
occasionally intense flak and SAM defences. Still, every fighter pilot
dreamt of at least one chance against a MiG...

The squadron now flew the F-8J, an upgraded "Echo" that featured better
avionics and boundary layer control, which improved the Crusader's notorious
handling around the ship.

On this day, Tucker and Lt Cdr Frank Bachman were TARCAP for an Alpha strike
near Vinh airfield. Orbiting their station was getting boring, and as the
strikers returned, two of their F-4s from VF-161 got a vector towards a MiG
that was coming out over the water in response to the attack on the
airfield.

The two F-8 pilots listened to the proceedings as the F-4 crews quickly lost
the "bubble" and the MiG. Tucker called Red Crown and said /his/ section was
ready to go. Red Crown called the Phantom IIs off and sent the Crusaders
towards the MiG.

Heading north, the F-8s spotted the MiG-17 and sped towards what seemed like
a sure kill. Lt Tucker took the lead because he had the enemy fighter in
sight. The MiG was now low and really moving out. Tucker's Sidewinder began
to growl, indicating the missile's seeker head was "sniffing" its quarry.

Suddenly, the MiG's canopy flew off, followed by the pilot. Tucker watched
incredulously as his "kill" floated down under a white parachute. The
frustrated Crusader pilot made two passes by the understandably nervous
North Vietnamese pilot, whose head turned as the American fighter flashed
past him.

Unfortunately, the Navy denied credit for the kill, leaving those concerned,
as well as historians, to argue the point for posterity. One of the aspects
of this "engagement" has long been whether the MiG pilot punched out when he
found his opponents were F-8s instead of F-4s. Of course, the Crusader
"drivers" will say that his reaction was understandable given the potent
reputation of the F-8. As Lt Tucker points out, however, only /that/ MiG
pilot knows for sure, and he has long since faded into the security of
anonymity.

</Quote>

F-8s didn't seem to have many problems against the early MiG-21s used in
Vietnam. It's possible that the Yemeni MiG-21s were later models, which were
heavier and less agile. No doubt the French pilots were far better trained
than their Yemeni counterparts. Maybe it's just as well that the engagement
never came to an exchange of fire.

--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

[Jim Morris[_2_]]

"Thanks for the memories"

Jim Morris