F-4E Story

[Danny Deger]

Here is the start of my book on my life as a fighter pilot, engineer,
astronaut instructor, and involuntary lockup in a psych ward. Tell me what
you think.

Danny Deger



My god, I couldn't believe it. Captain John "Lips" Fraley had just turned
his F-4E Phantom II in front of me and gave me his six. Santa Claus had
come early and had given me the best present ever. As Lips had briefed, we
had started off with him having the offensive advantage and in two turns I
had made it a neutral fight. We were passing beak-to-beak and I was
preparing for a successful separation - unload, full burner, maybe a couple
of check turns to add a few of angles without bleeding off my own speed.
Piece of cake. Doing a good separation was about as easy as it gets in this
business. And, just getting away without getting shot was going to ****
Lips off - after all he had the advantage at the start.



As I said we were passing beak-to-beak with him to my left. Before the
merge he turns hard right. Big mistake Lips. Big, big mistake. I am going
to make him pay with his life.



I pull hard left and get behind him. This is great -- almost better than
sex. I am lined up for a heat missile. "Fox 2", I call.



Lips is flailing around. He continues turning desperately to his right. I
follow. Time for another heater, "Fox 2", I call again. By the rules of
engagement I had a valid kill and could call "knock it off", but I am having
way too much fun. I have the advantage. I want a guns kill.



Lips is about out of airspeed and ideas. I move into the saddle. I have a
radar lock, my gun site is active and accurate. Pull some more on the stick
and a little bit of right rudder to move the pipper to the middle of his
cockpit and hold it for a second or two. Now pull the trigger, "Guns, Guns,
Guns. Tracking, Tracking, Tracking. Eagle flight knock-it off."



All the trigger did was turn on the gun camera and film the event. In real
combat, 20 millimeter cannon shells would have come out of the M-61 Vulcan
cannon in the nose of my F-4 at the rate of 100 rounds a second. Each shell
has the explosive destruction of half a hand grenade and bit of incinerary
to make sure what is left catches on fire. The cockpit under my pipper that
contained Captain John "Lips" Fraley and his Weapon Systems Officer would
simply have ceased to exists.



After we landed, I couldn't wait for the debrief. Usually the fight is
close and the lead can win the fight in the debrief. After all he is
running the debrief and can say what he wants. But I knew Lips was toast
with this one. Two valid heaters and a stable guns tracking solution was
too much to turn around by spin in the debriefing room. I stopped by the
beer machine and got two cold Buds. This was going to be a two beer
debrief and I was going to love every minute. I was wrong. I met a furious
and humiliated Lips in the hall. "This debrief is over," he fumed.



"But why. Don't you want to know what you did wrong. You turned in front
of me"



"I didn't turn in front of you I led turned you."



I was starting to realize what had happened. Lips was so ****ed that I was
going to separate from a fight that he started out offensive, his mind
melted down and he couldn't tell the difference between turning in front of
an opponent and lead turn for a kill. His ego was so hurt by my upcoming
separation, he made a mistake - a big mistake. This goes to show you the
first rule of air-to-air combat. You aren't fighting another airplane, you
are fighting another human. Get into their head and make them **** up. It
is much easier to win this way that with a few angles hear and a few feet
closer there.



I didn't get the satisfaction of sipping two beers in a long debrief where
we went through the flight one step at a time. Lips stomped off without
having a clue what his mistake was. His loss.



I went to the squadron bar and sat down to gloat. I was proud of myself. I
didn't tell a soul I had just guns tracked the famous Captain Lips. But one
advantage of a two seat airplane is there are WSOs (pronounced Whiss-ohs) in
addition to the pilots. I knew these two guys would get the word out. I
must say really enjoyed those two cold Buds.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Danny Deger" > said:
>Here is the start of my book on my life as a fighter pilot, engineer,
>astronaut instructor, and involuntary lockup in a psych ward. Tell me what
>you think.

Learn how to spell "gun sight". Otherwise, fine stuff.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - spaf (1992)

[Danny Deger]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Danny Deger" > said:
>>Here is the start of my book on my life as a fighter pilot, engineer,
>>astronaut instructor, and involuntary lockup in a psych ward. Tell me
>>what
>>you think.
>
> Learn how to spell "gun sight". Otherwise, fine stuff.
>

Thanks for the head up. The fix is alreay in.

Danny Deger

[Blueskies]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message ...
: In a previous article, "Danny Deger" > said:
: >Here is the start of my book on my life as a fighter pilot, engineer,
: >astronaut instructor, and involuntary lockup in a psych ward. Tell me what
: >you think.
:
: Learn how to spell "gun sight". Otherwise, fine stuff.
:
:


I thought he meant that was where his guns were located....

And, too bad it was a bud...

;-)

[Tony]

Please provide the URL, Danny

On Feb 26, 5:35 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > In a previous article, "Danny Deger" > said:
> >>Here is the start of my book on my life as a fighter pilot, engineer,
> >>astronaut instructor, and involuntary lockup in a psych ward. Tell me
> >>what
> >>you think.
>
> > Learn how to spell "gun sight". Otherwise, fine stuff.
>
> Thanks for the head up. The fix is alreay in.
>
> Danny Deger

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Danny Deger" < wrote

> Here is the start of my book on my life as a fighter pilot, engineer,
> astronaut instructor, and involuntary lockup in a psych ward. Tell me
> what you think.

First, try to take this all as my attempt at constructive criticisim, and
not flaming, in any way.

Be carefull, that your writing is not so "lingo correct" that the only ones
that can read it are people that are in the field. That would limit your
audience, quite a bit. <g>

As you tell your story, you can explain the lingo, in plain language as part
of the story, so that once it is explained, the lingo becomes understood,
and learned.

>We were passing beak-to-beak

I have some ideas wht that means, but I'm really not positive, and would
just be guessing.

>and I was preparing for a successful separation

What is a sucessfull separation; how do you know when you have one, and why
is that an important thing?

>- unload, full burner, maybe a couple of check turns to

Check turns? To check where he is?

>add a few of angles

I think the angles is angels? as in altitude?

> "I didn't turn in front of you I led turned you."

HuH?

I like hearing stuff like this, but I would definitely be thinking that I
had missed half of the story. Like I said, make explaining the terms part
of to story, and part of the color of the story telling.

Good luck! That is an ambitious project.
--
Jim in NC

[Danny Deger]

"Tony" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Please provide the URL, Danny

What URL are you refering to.

Danny Deger

[Danny Deger]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Danny Deger" < wrote
>
>> Here is the start of my book on my life as a fighter pilot, engineer,
>> astronaut instructor, and involuntary lockup in a psych ward. Tell me
>> what you think.
>
> First, try to take this all as my attempt at constructive criticisim, and
> not flaming, in any way.
>
> Be carefull, that your writing is not so "lingo correct" that the only
> ones that can read it are people that are in the field. That would limit
> your audience, quite a bit. <g>

Thanks for the feedback, I agree. It turns out this opening sequence is
full of lingo, but I find the next several pages slacking off a lot. I
think this might be OK in the long run. Time will tell.

My goal was and is a strong opening followed by a story told at a more
modest pace.

Danny Deger

snip

[Tony]

On Feb 26, 10:34 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
> "Tony" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > Please provide the URL, Danny
>
> What URL are you refering to.
>
> Danny Deger

I had not found the story, Danny, can you direct me to it? I'm very
interesteed in your experience since I also have what I'm hoping is a
good story in process.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Danny Deger" > said:
>"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>> Be carefull, that your writing is not so "lingo correct" that the only
>> ones that can read it are people that are in the field. That would limit
>> your audience, quite a bit. <g>
>
>Thanks for the feedback, I agree. It turns out this opening sequence is
>full of lingo, but I find the next several pages slacking off a lot. I
>think this might be OK in the long run. Time will tell.
>
>My goal was and is a strong opening followed by a story told at a more
>modest pace.

I agree with both of you - you can have too much lingo and confuse people,
but you need enough to give us a "you are there" sensation. It has to
feel real, and you do that by talking across to us rather than down, but
not using terminology we don't know.

Ed Raismus who posts mostly in rec.aviation.military wrote a couple of
books about his Viet Nam experiences - I read the first one, and I'm going
to be ordering the second one because he does a really good job of
striking the right balance.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
"Many of the places I've worked had RAID 666. If a disk crashed,
everything went to Hell." - Stephan Zielinski

[Danny Deger]

"Tony" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Feb 26, 10:34 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
>> "Tony" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>> > Please provide the URL, Danny
>>
>> What URL are you refering to.
>>
>> Danny Deger
>
> I had not found the story, Danny, can you direct me to it? I'm very
> interesteed in your experience since I also have what I'm hoping is a
> good story in process.
>

I put the whole thing in the first post. Here it is again.

My god, I couldn't believe it. Captain John "Lips" Fraley had just turned
his F-4E Phantom II in front of me and gave me his six. Santa Claus had
come early and had given me the best present ever. As Lips had briefed, we
had started off with him having the offensive advantage and in two turns I
had made it a neutral fight. We were passing beak-to-beak and I was
preparing for a successful separation - unload, full burner, maybe a couple
of check turns to add a few of angles without bleeding off my own speed.
Piece of cake. Doing a good separation was about as easy as it gets in this
business. And, just getting away without getting shot was going to ****
Lips off - after all he had the advantage at the start.



As I said we were passing beak-to-beak with him to my left. Before the
merge he turns hard right. Big mistake Lips. Big, big mistake. I am going
to make him pay with his life.



I pull hard left and get behind him. This is great -- almost better than
sex. I am lined up for a heat missile. "Fox 2", I call.



Lips is flailing around. He continues turning desperately to his right. I
follow. Time for another heater, "Fox 2", I call again. By the rules of
engagement I had a valid kill and could call "knock it off", but I am having
way too much fun. I have the advantage. I want a guns kill.



Lips is about out of airspeed and ideas. I move into the saddle. I have a
radar lock, my gun site is active and accurate. Pull some more on the stick
and a little bit of right rudder to move the pipper to the middle of his
cockpit and hold it for a second or two. Now pull the trigger, "Guns, Guns,
Guns. Tracking, Tracking, Tracking. Eagle flight knock-it off."



All the trigger did was turn on the gun camera and film the event. In real
combat, 20 millimeter cannon shells would have come out of the M-61 Vulcan
cannon in the nose of my F-4 at the rate of 100 rounds a second. Each shell
has the explosive destruction of half a hand grenade and bit of incinerary
to make sure what is left catches on fire. The cockpit under my pipper that
contained Captain John "Lips" Fraley and his Weapon Systems Officer would
simply have ceased to exists.



After we landed, I couldn't wait for the debrief. Usually the fight is
close and the lead can win the fight in the debrief. After all he is
running the debrief and can say what he wants. But I knew Lips was toast
with this one. Two valid heaters and a stable guns tracking solution was
too much to turn around by spin in the debriefing room. I stopped by the
beer machine and got two cold Buds. This was going to be a two beer
debrief and I was going to love every minute. I was wrong. I met a furious
and humiliated Lips in the hall. "This debrief is over," he fumed.



"But why. Don't you want to know what you did wrong. You turned in front
of me"



"I didn't turn in front of you I led turned you."



I was starting to realize what had happened. Lips was so ****ed that I was
going to separate from a fight that he started out offensive, his mind
melted down and he couldn't tell the difference between turning in front of
an opponent and lead turn for a kill. His ego was so hurt by my upcoming
separation, he made a mistake - a big mistake. This goes to show you the
first rule of air-to-air combat. You aren't fighting another airplane, you
are fighting another human. Get into their head and make them **** up. It
is much easier to win this way that with a few angles hear and a few feet
closer there.



I didn't get the satisfaction of sipping two beers in a long debrief where
we went through the flight one step at a time. Lips stomped off without
having a clue what his mistake was. His loss.



I went to the squadron bar and sat down to gloat. I was proud of myself. I
didn't tell a soul I had just guns tracked the famous Captain Lips. But one
advantage of a two seat airplane is there are WSOs (pronounced Whiss-ohs) in
addition to the pilots. I knew these two guys would get the word out. I
must say really enjoyed those two cold Buds.

[Allen[_1_]]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...
>
> I was starting to realize what had happened. Lips was so ****ed that I
> was
> going to separate from a fight that he started out offensive, his mind
> melted down and he couldn't tell the difference between turning in front
> of
> an opponent and lead turn for a kill. His ego was so hurt by my upcoming
> separation, he made a mistake - a big mistake. This goes to show you the
> first rule of air-to-air combat. You aren't fighting another airplane,
> you
> are fighting another human. Get into their head and make them **** (what
> market are you writing for?) up. It
> is much easier to win this way that "than" with a few angles hear
> "here" and a few feet
> closer there.

While we are proofing : ) Neat story!

[Danny Deger]

"Allen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Danny Deger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I was starting to realize what had happened. Lips was so ****ed that I
>> was
>> going to separate from a fight that he started out offensive, his mind
>> melted down and he couldn't tell the difference between turning in front
>> of
>> an opponent and lead turn for a kill. His ego was so hurt by my upcoming
>> separation, he made a mistake - a big mistake. This goes to show you the
>> first rule of air-to-air combat. You aren't fighting another airplane,
>> you
>> are fighting another human. Get into their head and make them **** (what
>> market are you writing for?) up. It
>> is much easier to win this way that "than" with a few angles hear
>> "here" and a few feet
>> closer there.
>
> While we are proofing : ) Neat story!
>

Thanks for finding the mistakes.

Danny Deger

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote

> I agree with both of you - you can have too much lingo and confuse people,
> but you need enough to give us a "you are there" sensation. It has to
> feel real, and you do that by talking across to us rather than down, but
> not using terminology we don't know.
>
> Ed Raismus who posts mostly in rec.aviation.military wrote a couple of
> books about his Viet Nam experiences - I read the first one, and I'm going
> to be ordering the second one because he does a really good job of
> striking the right balance.

I'll agree with you, and meet halfway.

I'll still say it is a little over the top with lingo, and that a slightly
better job of explaining the lingo can be worked in, without losing the hard
hitting pace.
--
Jim in NC

[Mike Young]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tony" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On Feb 26, 10:34 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
>>> "Tony" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ups.com...
>>>
>>> > Please provide the URL, Danny
>>>
>>> What URL are you refering to.
>>>
>>> Danny Deger
>>
>> I had not found the story, Danny, can you direct me to it? I'm very
>> interesteed in your experience since I also have what I'm hoping is a
>> good story in process.
>>
>
> I put the whole thing in the first post. Here it is again.
>
> My god, I couldn't believe it. Captain John "Lips" Fraley had just turned
> his F-4E Phantom II in front of me and gave me his six. Santa Claus had

It reads OK to me, and I'm no fighter jock. I am curious though why, in
similar types 1v1, after so quickly getting to neutral angles, Lips would
continue with the angles fight when he clearly had to have the energy
advantage. I would be looking for insights into the personality that
foretell his downfall, his history and the wherefore of his fearsome
reputation, and then a wrapup in the full telling of what lead up to events
in the opening paragraph. I'm hooked. When are you publishing?

[Danny Deger]

"Mike Young" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Danny Deger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Tony" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> On Feb 26, 10:34 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
>>>> "Tony" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> ups.com...
>>>>
>>>> > Please provide the URL, Danny
>>>>
>>>> What URL are you refering to.
>>>>
>>>> Danny Deger
>>>
>>> I had not found the story, Danny, can you direct me to it? I'm very
>>> interesteed in your experience since I also have what I'm hoping is a
>>> good story in process.
>>>
>>
>> I put the whole thing in the first post. Here it is again.
>>
>> My god, I couldn't believe it. Captain John "Lips" Fraley had just
>> turned
>> his F-4E Phantom II in front of me and gave me his six. Santa Claus had
>
> It reads OK to me, and I'm no fighter jock. I am curious though why, in
> similar types 1v1, after so quickly getting to neutral angles, Lips would
> continue with the angles fight when he clearly had to have the energy
> advantage. I would be looking for insights into the personality that
> foretell his downfall, his history and the wherefore of his fearsome
> reputation, and then a wrapup in the full telling of what lead up to
> events in the opening paragraph. I'm hooked. When are you publishing?
>
>

Good points. I may make "Lips" a composite character of more than one
arrogant fighter pilot I had to deal with and expand on "him" some more. He
got his nickname by one time saying in a meeting he was going to rip
someone's lips off.

It will be while before I get the story completed. Anyone know of a good
publisher and/or agent.

Danny Deger

[[email protected]]

Where did you fly F-4Es, and when? I was a comm-nav avionics tech in the
35CRS at George AFB from Feb 1982 to April 1983, and in the 526TFS/AMU at
Ramstein AB, Germany from May 1983 to May 1986, both assignments working on
F-4Es. I wonder if we crossed paths? I know a fellow in the Minneapolis
area who flew the same F-4Es I worked on at Ramstein after they'd been
reassigned to the Indiana ANG. In fact his first F-4E flight he logged was
in the same tail number I got an incentive ride in a few years earlier,
68-0531. It can be a small world.

I'd suggest you post your story on rec.aviation.military. Besides Ed
Rasimus there are several other former fighter jocks who could give you some
good suggestions about writing and publishing.
Scott Wilson

[john smith]

In article >,
"Danny Deger" > wrote:

> It will be while before I get the story completed. Anyone know of a good
> publisher and/or agent.

Self publish, make more money... www.lulu.com

[gpsman]

On Feb 27, 10:26 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
<brevity snip>
> It will be while before I get the story completed. Anyone know of a good
> publisher and/or agent.

Submit it to any publisher/s of adventure fiction. They're not in the
business of publishing rejection slips. It might be a year before it
gets read, but they can't afford to not read it, because that's what
they -do-.
-----

- gpsman

[Danny Deger]

> wrote in message
t...
> Where did you fly F-4Es, and when? I was a comm-nav avionics tech in the
> 35CRS at George AFB from Feb 1982 to April 1983, and in the 526TFS/AMU at
> Ramstein AB, Germany from May 1983 to May 1986, both assignments working
> on
> F-4Es. I wonder if we crossed paths? I know a fellow in the Minneapolis
> area who flew the same F-4Es I worked on at Ramstein after they'd been
> reassigned to the Indiana ANG. In fact his first F-4E flight he logged was
> in the same tail number I got an incentive ride in a few years earlier,
> 68-0531. It can be a small world.

I flew the ARN-101 equiped F-4E in the 334 TFS at Seymour Johnson from 1981
to 1984.

>
> I'd suggest you post your story on rec.aviation.military. Besides Ed
> Rasimus there are several other former fighter jocks who could give you
> some
> good suggestions about writing and publishing.
> Scott Wilson

Thanks, I did this and got some useful input -- Like "don't quit your day
job" :-)

Danny Deger

[BDS[_2_]]

"Danny Deger" > wrote

> Thanks, I did this and got some useful input -- Like "don't quit your day
> job" :-)

I enjoyed reading your snippet too and would like to see more.

BDS

[Berry]

In article >,
"Danny Deger" > wrote:

> > wrote in message
> t...
> > Where did you fly F-4Es, and when? I was a comm-nav avionics tech in the
> > 35CRS at George AFB from Feb 1982 to April 1983, and in the 526TFS/AMU at
> > Ramstein AB, Germany from May 1983 to May 1986, both assignments working
> > on
> > F-4Es. I wonder if we crossed paths? I know a fellow in the Minneapolis
> > area who flew the same F-4Es I worked on at Ramstein after they'd been
> > reassigned to the Indiana ANG. In fact his first F-4E flight he logged was
> > in the same tail number I got an incentive ride in a few years earlier,
> > 68-0531. It can be a small world.
>
> I flew the ARN-101 equiped F-4E in the 334 TFS at Seymour Johnson from 1981
> to 1984.
>
> >
> > I'd suggest you post your story on rec.aviation.military. Besides Ed
> > Rasimus there are several other former fighter jocks who could give you
> > some
> > good suggestions about writing and publishing.
> > Scott Wilson
>
> Thanks, I did this and got some useful input -- Like "don't quit your day
> job" :-)
>
> Danny Deger

One of my glider buds was an F4 backseater at Seymour Johnson around
that time. His name is Kirk Stant. Hi Kirk, if you're reading this
newsgroup.

Another of my glider friends was base commander there, but I'm not sure
what years. Ray Kleber. I once asked a KC-10 crew if they knew him. I
gathered from their outburst of profanity that they did.

[Danny Deger]

"BDS" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Danny Deger" > wrote
>
>> Thanks, I did this and got some useful input -- Like "don't quit your day
>> job" :-)
>
> I enjoyed reading your snippet too and would like to see more.
>
> BDS
>
>

Thanks for the input. A free lance writer has recommended I sit down and
let the words flow until I am finished -- i.e. don't edit as I write. I
make so many mistakes, I am not going to post anymore until I finish and
edit. At that time I will snip some of the interesting flying stories and
post here for entertainment value.

Danny Deger

[Danny Deger]

"Berry" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Danny Deger" > wrote:
>
>> > wrote in message
>> t...
>> > Where did you fly F-4Es, and when? I was a comm-nav avionics tech in
>> > the
>> > 35CRS at George AFB from Feb 1982 to April 1983, and in the 526TFS/AMU
>> > at
>> > Ramstein AB, Germany from May 1983 to May 1986, both assignments
>> > working
>> > on
>> > F-4Es. I wonder if we crossed paths? I know a fellow in the
>> > Minneapolis
>> > area who flew the same F-4Es I worked on at Ramstein after they'd been
>> > reassigned to the Indiana ANG. In fact his first F-4E flight he logged
>> > was
>> > in the same tail number I got an incentive ride in a few years earlier,
>> > 68-0531. It can be a small world.
>>
>> I flew the ARN-101 equiped F-4E in the 334 TFS at Seymour Johnson from
>> 1981
>> to 1984.
>>
>> >
>> > I'd suggest you post your story on rec.aviation.military. Besides Ed
>> > Rasimus there are several other former fighter jocks who could give you
>> > some
>> > good suggestions about writing and publishing.
>> > Scott Wilson
>>
>> Thanks, I did this and got some useful input -- Like "don't quit your day
>> job" :-)
>>
>> Danny Deger
>
> One of my glider buds was an F4 backseater at Seymour Johnson around
> that time. His name is Kirk Stant. Hi Kirk, if you're reading this
> newsgroup.
>
> Another of my glider friends was base commander there, but I'm not sure
> what years. Ray Kleber. I once asked a KC-10 crew if they knew him. I
> gathered from their outburst of profanity that they did.

I can't say that I recall either name, but that reminds me to write in some
words on Peter T. Kempt. He was the wing command while I was there. One of
his quotes was "Airman, lack of punishment is reward enough for a job well
done." This sums up the man's personality perfectly in my opinion. The
wing had just gotten an unsat on our formal review and Colonel Kempt was
brought in to shake things up. He did a good job of doing that. He put in
a squadron commander that matched his bubbling personality. I had the
"pleasure" of working for both men for 2 years.

Danny Deger

[Ed Rasimus[_1_]]

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:57:37 -0600, "Danny Deger"
> wrote:


>
>I can't say that I recall either name, but that reminds me to write in some
>words on Peter T. Kempt. He was the wing command while I was there. One of
>his quotes was "Airman, lack of punishment is reward enough for a job well
>done." This sums up the man's personality perfectly in my opinion. The
>wing had just gotten an unsat on our formal review and Colonel Kempt was
>brought in to shake things up. He did a good job of doing that. He put in
>a squadron commander that matched his bubbling personality. I had the
>"pleasure" of working for both men for 2 years.
>
>Danny Deger
>

Peter T. Kempf (note the "f" vs "t") was one of the lower forms of
animal life that got elevated to general officer status. He was
eventually drummed out of the corps in disgrace following a bit of
flaperdoodle regarding a secretary and some extra-curriculars.

With a lot of incredible leaders in the AF, he's one to overlook in
the short list.

Or even a long one.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Danny Deger]

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:57:37 -0600, "Danny Deger"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I can't say that I recall either name, but that reminds me to write in
>>some
>>words on Peter T. Kempt. He was the wing command while I was there. One
>>of
>>his quotes was "Airman, lack of punishment is reward enough for a job well
>>done." This sums up the man's personality perfectly in my opinion. The
>>wing had just gotten an unsat on our formal review and Colonel Kempt was
>>brought in to shake things up. He did a good job of doing that. He put
>>in
>>a squadron commander that matched his bubbling personality. I had the
>>"pleasure" of working for both men for 2 years.
>>
>>Danny Deger
>>
>
> Peter T. Kempf (note the "f" vs "t") was one of the lower forms of
> animal life that got elevated to general officer status. He was
> eventually drummed out of the corps in disgrace following a bit of
> flaperdoodle regarding a secretary and some extra-curriculars.
>
> With a lot of incredible leaders in the AF, he's one to overlook in
> the short list.
>
> Or even a long one.
>
>

Thanks for the correction on the spelling of the name. His hatchet man that
ran the 334 TFS, Micheal Short, ran the squadron just like Kempf ran the
wing, i.e. "Lack of punishment is reward enough for job well done." Short
also made general and was in charge in Serbia when a pilot mis IDed many
people following a tractor as a truck and trailer. Apperently Short allowed
some tactic of using a low quality FLIRs to ID targets and attack them. I
saw him on 60 minutes explain why he wasn't responsible for this horribly
flawed tactic. He was a horrilble pilot and tactician. I can't wait to
write-up my last disimilar combat mission where three missions in a row 2
F-16s hammered us each and every flight. I begged him to try something
different on at least one pass. No doing. We did the exact same tactic
over an over and over and got hammered over and over and over. He was not a
quick study on the art of air combat.

Danny Deger

[Blueskies]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message ...
:
.... I can't wait to
: write-up my last disimilar combat mission where three missions in a row 2
: F-16s hammered us each and every flight. I begged him to try something
: different on at least one pass. No doing. We did the exact same tactic
: over an over and over and got hammered over and over and over. He was not a
: quick study on the art of air combat.
:
: Danny Deger
:
:
:

The definition of insanity is doing something over and over the same way and expecting different results...

Dan D. (also)
Kalamazoo, MI

[shrubkiller]

On Feb 28, 8:00 pm, Ed Rasimus > wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:57:37 -0600, "Danny Deger"
>
> > wrote:
>
> >I can't say that I recall either name, but that reminds me to write in some
> >words on Peter T. Kempt. He was the wing command while I was there. One of
> >his quotes was "Airman, lack of punishment is reward enough for a job well
> >done." This sums up the man's personality perfectly in my opinion. The
> >wing had just gotten an unsat on our formal review and Colonel Kempt was
> >brought in to shake things up. He did a good job of doing that. He put in
> >a squadron commander that matched his bubbling personality. I had the
> >"pleasure" of working for both men for 2 years.
>
> >Danny Deger
>
> Peter T. Kempf (note the "f" vs "t") was one of the lower forms of
> animal life that got elevated to general officer status. He was
> eventually drummed out of the corps in disgrace following a bit of
> flaperdoodle regarding a secretary and some extra-curriculars.
>
> With a lot of incredible leaders in the AF, he's one to overlook in
> the short list.



LOL!!!


You are mired in the JOO'S war in Iraq and you think you have
incredible leaders!!?

You have mindless bots!









>
> Or even a long one.
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Leadfoot[_2_]]

>
>
> You are mired in the JOO'S war in Iraq and you think you have
> incredible leaders!!?
>
> You have mindless bots!
>
>


LOL the leaders who bear the main responsibil;ity for the screw-ups in Iraq
are civilian not military