Possible to live in Manhattan and keep soaring?

[fbrahic]

I'm considering moving to Manhattan at some point in the future, and
was wondering if there's anyone here who knows what it's like to keep
soaring while living there?

I've noticed there are a couple of clubs on Long Island, but I'm not
sure how long it takes to get there from Manhattan, or what the
soaring conditions are like.

Any input is appreciated!

[Papa3]

On Feb 26, 4:25 pm, "fbrahic" > wrote:
> I'm considering moving to Manhattan at some point in the future, and
> was wondering if there's anyone here who knows what it's like to keep
> soaring while living there?
>
> I've noticed there are a couple of clubs on Long Island, but I'm not
> sure how long it takes to get there from Manhattan, or what the
> soaring conditions are like.
>
> Any input is appreciated!

Just in case others may be interested, I'm responding to the group
instead of directly to the author. I get about 2 or 3 requests like
this each year, so maybe I can head off some future requests.

The answer to your question is "it depends." As long as you're
willing to set aside the better part of a full day, it's doable.
Secondly, you either need to own a car (read have a lot of $$ to keep
it in NYC) or be willing to rent. Though I have seen people make it
work using mass transit, it's not for the faint of heart.

In terms of sites, there are several options. These include:

- New York State. In addition to the Long Island operations you
mentioned, there are very good options in Middletown and Wurtsboro,
usually referred to as southern New York State. These are probably
1.5-2 hours away depending on traffic and how you get out of
Manhattan.
- New Jersey. Again, depending on where you are in Manhattan,
locations in NJ can actually be relatively easy to get to. The
closest (Somerset) is probably 1 hour from the mouth of the Holland
Tunnel without traffic. The other major operation (Blairstown) is
much larger and features good ridge soaring, but it is more like 1.5
hours.
- Pennsylvania. Believe it or not, the operation at Van Sant airport
is also "only" about 1.5 hours from the mouth of the Holland
Tunnel.

The good news is that, if you are like most people, this will be a
weekend activity, so the outbound leg (ie. getting out of Manhattan)
shouldn't be too bad. Coming home, even on a weekend, can be a bit
arduous.

I frequently would spend Friday night in the city and still be able to
get to Blairstown or Van Sant in time to assemble my ship and launch
by late morning.

Please feel free to contact me directly for a more in-depth review.

Good luck

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)
SSA State Governor NJ

[Doug Haluza]

That's a pretty comprehensive rundown of the options. The only thing I
can add is that the ShortLine bus from the Port Authority bus terminal
in NYC goes past the Wurtsboro airport and will stop there. I used to
take it all the time when I was learning to soar.

Long Island Soaring Assn. flys out of Brokhaven Airport on L.I., about
a mile or so from the Mastic/Shirley LIRR Station. There are a few
LISA members who live in NYC. There is bus service from NYC to the
other cities too, but I'm not sure how far from the airport the
service runs.

I live on L.I. and work in NYC, but I keep my glider at Ridge Soaring
in PA, and drive about 5 hours each way. Two other pilots from L.I.
keep their gliders there as well, and some LISA members bring a club
glider there from time to time as well. LISA also keeps a glider at
Wurtsboro for the summer.

On Feb 26, 5:00 pm, "Papa3" > wrote:
> On Feb 26, 4:25 pm, "fbrahic" > wrote:
>
> > I'm considering moving to Manhattan at some point in the future, and
> > was wondering if there's anyone here who knows what it's like to keep
> > soaring while living there?
>
> > I've noticed there are a couple of clubs on Long Island, but I'm not
> > sure how long it takes to get there from Manhattan, or what the
> > soaring conditions are like.
>
> > Any input is appreciated!
>
> Just in case others may be interested, I'm responding to the group
> instead of directly to the author. I get about 2 or 3 requests like
> this each year, so maybe I can head off some future requests.
>
> The answer to your question is "it depends." As long as you're
> willing to set aside the better part of a full day, it's doable.
> Secondly, you either need to own a car (read have a lot of $$ to keep
> it in NYC) or be willing to rent. Though I have seen people make it
> work using mass transit, it's not for the faint of heart.
>
> In terms of sites, there are several options. These include:
>
> - New York State. In addition to the Long Island operations you
> mentioned, there are very good options in Middletown and Wurtsboro,
> usually referred to as southern New York State. These are probably
> 1.5-2 hours away depending on traffic and how you get out of
> Manhattan.
> - New Jersey. Again, depending on where you are in Manhattan,
> locations in NJ can actually be relatively easy to get to. The
> closest (Somerset) is probably 1 hour from the mouth of the Holland
> Tunnel without traffic. The other major operation (Blairstown) is
> much larger and features good ridge soaring, but it is more like 1.5
> hours.
> - Pennsylvania. Believe it or not, the operation at Van Sant airport
> is also "only" about 1.5 hours from the mouth of the Holland
> Tunnel.
>
> The good news is that, if you are like most people, this will be a
> weekend activity, so the outbound leg (ie. getting out of Manhattan)
> shouldn't be too bad. Coming home, even on a weekend, can be a bit
> arduous.
>
> I frequently would spend Friday night in the city and still be able to
> get to Blairstown or Van Sant in time to assemble my ship and launch
> by late morning.
>
> Please feel free to contact me directly for a more in-depth review.
>
> Good luck
>
> Erik Mann
> LS8-18 (P3)
> SSA State Governor NJ

[JS]

I've heard it's possible, but don't think "keeping soaring" should be
the part in question. The idea of living in such a crowded place where
you can't even park a car, let alone work on the glider in the
driveway should be the questionable bit!
You'll need the wide open spaces of flying to feel human.
Jim
....In Argentina this week, but won't get to fly. :-(

[Nilsen]

On Feb 26, 5:00 pm, "Papa3" > wrote:
> On Feb 26, 4:25 pm, "fbrahic" > wrote:
>
> > I'm considering moving to Manhattan at some point in the future, and
> > was wondering if there's anyone here who knows what it's like to keep
> > soaring while living there?
>
> > I've noticed there are a couple of clubs on Long Island, but I'm not
> > sure how long it takes to get there from Manhattan, or what the
> > soaring conditions are like.
>
> > Any input is appreciated!
>
> Just in case others may be interested, I'm responding to the group
> instead of directly to the author. I get about 2 or 3 requests like
> this each year, so maybe I can head off some future requests.
>
> The answer to your question is "it depends." As long as you're
> willing to set aside the better part of a full day, it's doable.
> Secondly, you either need to own a car (read have a lot of $$ to keep
> it in NYC) or be willing to rent. Though I have seen people make it
> work using mass transit, it's not for the faint of heart.
>
> In terms of sites, there are several options. These include:
>
> - New York State. In addition to the Long Island operations you
> mentioned, there are very good options in Middletown and Wurtsboro,
> usually referred to as southern New York State. These are probably
> 1.5-2 hours away depending on traffic and how you get out of
> Manhattan.
> - New Jersey. Again, depending on where you are in Manhattan,
> locations in NJ can actually be relatively easy to get to. The
> closest (Somerset) is probably 1 hour from the mouth of the Holland
> Tunnel without traffic. The other major operation (Blairstown) is
> much larger and features good ridge soaring, but it is more like 1.5
> hours.
> - Pennsylvania. Believe it or not, the operation at Van Sant airport
> is also "only" about 1.5 hours from the mouth of the Holland
> Tunnel.
>
> The good news is that, if you are like most people, this will be a
> weekend activity, so the outbound leg (ie. getting out of Manhattan)
> shouldn't be too bad. Coming home, even on a weekend, can be a bit
> arduous.
>
> I frequently would spend Friday night in the city and still be able to
> get to Blairstown or Van Sant in time to assemble my ship and launch
> by late morning.
>
> Please feel free to contact me directly for a more in-depth review.
>
> Good luck
>
> Erik Mann
> LS8-18 (P3)
> SSA State Governor NJ

I fly out of Wurtsboro. I take the Shortline bus from Port
Authority. It's been hard sometimes. The last bus is at 4:40PM. If
you miss it too bad (it sometimes swings by at 4:30 and does not
wait). I've been stranded twice and had to stay at the airport until
the next day. The cool thing is Wurtsboro is a lovely airport. Nice
thermals and a Ridge and occasionally mountain wave. There is State
Park directly next to the Airport that you can camp in. So if you
plan it right it can be a nice way to get out of the city for a few
days. The added bonus of Wurtsboro is they are always open so if you
have a flexible schedule you can choose the best time of week to fly.

I have looked into Ridge Soaring in PA. There are busses from the
city, however the trip is 4+ hours each way.

All in all it's not easy keeping the soaring thing going in the city
but as they say if you can make it here you can make it anywhere. :-)

[Chip Bearden]

Others have summed up the options pretty well. To me the key factor is
whether you have access to a car. Almost anywhere else in the country,
that would be a ridiculous issue: of COURSE you'd have a car. In
Manhattan, however, cars=expense and/or hassle. A garage costs
hundreds of dollars a month. Some people do park on the street but
dealing with alternate-side-of-the-street-parking-regs that render
parking spaces illegal for a few hours every other day for street
cleaning, roving meter maids, and an outsized automobile-to-parking-
space ratio require even more commitment and insensitivity to
frustration than are necessary to keep soaring year round in East
Coast weather. :)

I've flown at Wurtsboro, Middletown, Blairstown, and Van Sant, and all
are good options. Wurtsboro and Blairstown offer ridge options and
arguably better weather. Middletown is a club (a good one) in the
valley a few miles downstream of Wurtsboro (and 20 min. closer to
NYC). And Van Sant is a commercial operation at a lovely grass airport
that harkens back to an earlier era in aviation.

People have lived in Manhattan and maintained their interest in
soaring, and they still do. It's not as easy as some venues but if you
want to fly, there are ways. As one critic mentioned, you're not going
to be able to keep the glider at home or work on it in the basement
(or probably even have room for all the toolboxes and gear in the
apartment). But Manhattan has other advantages. If this is a time in
your life when you want to live there, you won't have to give up
soaring.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

[fbrahic]

Thanks for all the great input! This is a great list of options and
will help me evaluate how much I would be able to fly. It sounds like
at the very least, I would be able to stay current and get in some
flying practice every few weekends.

I don't think I'd be willing to keep a car in Manhattan, but renting
would definitely be an option. Also, the bus to Wurtsboro airport is
a very tempting option, especially if I can camp there overnight.
Finally, I just got my motorcycle license, so that might be another
option... Although, as a new rider, I'm not sure how comfortable I am
with the risks involved.

On Feb 27, 3:02 pm, "Chip Bearden" > wrote:
> Others have summed up the options pretty well. To me the key factor is
> whether you have access to a car. Almost anywhere else in the country,
> that would be a ridiculous issue: of COURSE you'd have a car. In
> Manhattan, however, cars=expense and/or hassle. A garage costs
> hundreds of dollars a month. Some people do park on the street but
> dealing with alternate-side-of-the-street-parking-regs that render
> parking spaces illegal for a few hours every other day for street
> cleaning, roving meter maids, and an outsized automobile-to-parking-
> space ratio require even more commitment and insensitivity to
> frustration than are necessary to keep soaring year round in East
> Coast weather. :)
>
> I've flown at Wurtsboro, Middletown, Blairstown, and Van Sant, and all
> are good options. Wurtsboro and Blairstown offer ridge options and
> arguably better weather. Middletown is a club (a good one) in the
> valley a few miles downstream of Wurtsboro (and 20 min. closer to
> NYC). And Van Sant is a commercial operation at a lovely grass airport
> that harkens back to an earlier era in aviation.
>
> People have lived in Manhattan and maintained their interest in
> soaring, and they still do. It's not as easy as some venues but if you
> want to fly, there are ways. As one critic mentioned, you're not going
> to be able to keep the glider at home or work on it in the basement
> (or probably even have room for all the toolboxes and gear in the
> apartment). But Manhattan has other advantages. If this is a time in
> your life when you want to live there, you won't have to give up
> soaring.
>
> Chip Bearden
> ASW 24 "JB"

[Mike125]

On Feb 27, 9:57 pm, "fbrahic" > wrote:
> Finally, I just got my motorcycle license, so that might be another
> option... Although, as a new rider, I'm not sure how comfortable I am
> with the risks involved.

You know what they say - "The most dangerous part of soaring is the
motorcycle ride through Manhattan"

Mike

[Ralph Jones[_2_]]

On 27 Feb 2007 18:57:28 -0800, "fbrahic" > wrote:

>Thanks for all the great input! This is a great list of options and
>will help me evaluate how much I would be able to fly. It sounds like
>at the very least, I would be able to stay current and get in some
>flying practice every few weekends.
>
>I don't think I'd be willing to keep a car in Manhattan, but renting
>would definitely be an option.

What about buying a cheap junker of a car and keeping it at the
nearest railroad station to your soaring site?

Preferably with a set of jumper cables in the trunk...;-)

rj

[Papa3]

On Feb 28, 9:25 am, "Mike125" > wrote:
> On Feb 27, 9:57 pm, "fbrahic" > wrote:
>
> > Finally, I just got my motorcycle license, so that might be another
> > option... Although, as a new rider, I'm not sure how comfortable I am
> > with the risks involved.
>
> You know what they say - "The most dangerous part of soaring is the
> motorcycle ride through Manhattan"
>
> Mike

No kidding. I shudder to think...

OTOH, Van Sant airport also happens to be a major hangout for the
motorcycle set of all types. On a nice day, you'll see no fewer than
50 bikes ranging from the Harley crowd to various high-end rice
rockets, the BMW gang, and all sorts of exotica in between. So, if
you can find a way to avoid getting killed in the first 20 or so
miles, the end result might be kinda fun. You can probably hook up
with some of the local bike clubs and organize a group ride to the
airport!

P3

[Fox Two]

One more option:

When I was living on the Upper West Side, I would hop on a commercial
flight and head to the southwest - I kept my glider in El Paso. The
commute wasn't too difficult, but I only got to fly on one or two
weekends a month. Eventually I just moved to El Paso.

Granted, this option isn't realistic for most, but some companies have
commuting options available for their workers. It's worth an inquiry,
at the very least. Remember, it's guaranteed that it won't work if
you never ask!

Chris Fleming
"F2"

[[email protected]]

We have several members that live in the city.

www.valleysoaring.org

[RL]

Philadelphia Glider Council is about 13 miles away from Van Sant which
has already been mentioned. We have two members who live in Manhattan
and several more who live in North Jersey and work in the City. It's
certainly a full day committment, but some find it workable. Try
http://www.pgcsoaring.org/ for details.

Bob

[rasposter]

Info about the New Jersey club operating at Blairstown, Aero Club
Albatross, can be found here:

www.aeroclubalbatross.org

>From my own experience as a Manhattanite, I can say that combining
public transportation and carpooling with other pilots and even
walking can work. But none of those compare to a car's
convenience. Definitely hassle-wise and probably financially, I
think I came out ahead by owning and garaging a car in Manhattan
instead of renting, considering how much driving I did to get out of
the city to go flying and do many other things. Granted, I did it
with a cheap car and one of the cheapest garages I could find .

YMMV,
John Whitney


On Feb 26, 5:00 pm, "Papa3" > wrote:
> On Feb 26, 4:25 pm, "fbrahic" > wrote:
>
> > I'm considering moving to Manhattan at some point in the future, and
> > was wondering if there's anyone here who knows what it's like to keep
> > soaring while living there?
>
> > I've noticed there are a couple of clubs on Long Island, but I'm not
> > sure how long it takes to get there from Manhattan, or what the
> > soaring conditions are like.
>
> > Any input is appreciated!
>
> Just in case others may be interested, I'm responding to the group
> instead of directly to the author. I get about 2 or 3 requests like
> this each year, so maybe I can head off some future requests.
>
> The answer to your question is "it depends." As long as you're
> willing to set aside the better part of a full day, it's doable.
> Secondly, you either need to own a car (read have a lot of $$ to keep
> it in NYC) or be willing to rent. Though I have seen people make it
> work using mass transit, it's not for the faint of heart.
>
> In terms of sites, there are several options. These include:
>
> - New York State. In addition to the Long Island operations you
> mentioned, there are very good options in Middletown and Wurtsboro,
> usually referred to as southern New York State. These are probably
> 1.5-2 hours away depending on traffic and how you get out of
> Manhattan.
> - New Jersey. Again, depending on where you are in Manhattan,
> locations in NJ can actually be relatively easy to get to. The
> closest (Somerset) is probably 1 hour from the mouth of the Holland
> Tunnel without traffic. The other major operation (Blairstown) is
> much larger and features good ridge soaring, but it is more like 1.5
> hours.
> - Pennsylvania. Believe it or not, the operation at Van Sant airport
> is also "only" about 1.5 hours from the mouth of the Holland
> Tunnel.
>
> The good news is that, if you are like most people, this will be a
> weekend activity, so the outbound leg (ie. getting out of Manhattan)
> shouldn't be too bad. Coming home, even on a weekend, can be a bit
> arduous.
>
> I frequently would spend Friday night in the city and still be able to
> get to Blairstown or Van Sant in time to assemble my ship and launch
> by late morning.
>
> Please feel free to contact me directly for a more in-depth review.
>
> Good luck
>
> Erik Mann
> LS8-18 (P3)
> SSA State Governor NJ