Re: Medical and Insurance?

[Ken Sandyeggo]

"dale" > wrote in message >...
> If you have a current medical but are taking a disqualifying drug, then you
> are technically grounded?

I believe so.
>
> If you are not aware that the drug is disqualifying, are you then safe?

I doubt it, as it is your responsibility to find out.
>
> If you continue to fly and the FAA somehow has a reason to check into your
> medical, can they get access to your medical records?

How should I know....I'm not a doctor or a lawyer...just kidding, I
really don't know and am a little shaky about my first 2 answers
anyway.
>
> If involved in an accident will your insurance refuse to cover you because
> of the disqualifying drug? Even if it had nothing to do with the accident?

Most insurance companies will use any whiff of an excuse to not pay a
claim.

Well, that's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth......can't get much
lower than 2 cents.

Ken J. - Just kibitzing in Sand me Eggos

[Craig]

"dale" > wrote in message >...
> If you have a current medical but are taking a disqualifying drug, then you
> are technically grounded?

Yes


>
> If you are not aware that the drug is disqualifying, are you then safe?
>
No...It's your responsibility to check prior to taking it.



> If you continue to fly and the FAA somehow has a reason to check into your
> medical, can they get access to your medical records?
>
Those of yours that are with the issuing Md.


> If involved in an accident will your insurance refuse to cover you because
> of the disqualifying drug? Even if it had nothing to do with the accident?


You bet they'll use it against you in a heartbeat.

Craig C.

[Corrie]

"dale" > wrote in message >...
> If you have a current medical but are taking a disqualifying drug, then you
> are technically grounded?


Yes.


> If you are not aware that the drug is disqualifying, are you then safe?


Probably not, since as PIC you're responsible for obtaining all
necessary information for a safe flight.


> If you continue to fly and the FAA somehow has a reason to check into your
> medical, can they get access to your medical records?


Not without your permission, which you may have inadvertently given if
you signed a blanket release.


> If involved in an accident will your insurance refuse to cover you because
> of the disqualifying drug? Even if it had nothing to do with the accident?


Very likely. They'll sieze on any excuse to get out of paying a
claim.

See http://www.aopa.org/members/resources/medical.html

If you're not already a member of AOPA, join.

[Michael]

"dale" > wrote
> If you have a current medical but are taking a disqualifying drug, then you
> are technically grounded?

Yup

> If you are not aware that the drug is disqualifying, are you then safe?

That depends. From the FAA? No. The FAA has no due process and does
what it wants. In civil and/or criminal matters, it's not so clear
cut.

> If you continue to fly and the FAA somehow has a reason to check into your
> medical, can they get access to your medical records?

Yes - provided one of two things happens.

They can get your medical records if your doctor rolls over and
releases them. Some will, some won't. I make it a point to tell my
doctor not to release my medical records to anyone I have not
specifically authorized. Nobody wants a lawsuit. My doctor is not an
AME or a pilot, and thus the FAA has no lever to use against him.

The other option - the FAA can get a court order. But this is not an
automatic process. Most judges won't issue one unless there's
probable cause. The FAA can't just go on a fishing expedition into
your medical records unless your doctor allows it.

> If involved in an accident will your insurance refuse to cover you because
> of the disqualifying drug? Even if it had nothing to do with the accident?

Well, the insurance company can try. Maybe they will, maybe not. A
lot depends on what they think they can get away with.

Generally, an insurance company will deny a claim if they believe they
can get away with it and it won't hurt future business too badly.
I've never seen a situation where a pilot had an accident with an
invalid medical, but I have seen one where the pilot had an accident
with an expired BFR. The accident was 100% pilot error (landed
downwind, ran into trees at end of runway). Insurance paid. I've
also seen one where a student pilot (in a glider) took a tow above a
broken layer (operating without visual reference to the surface is a
no-no for student pilots), got lost, landed off aiport, and severely
damaged the glider. Insurance paid.

In general, unless the insurance company believes they will win the
inevitable lawsuit by the named insured, they're going to pay. A jury
is highly unlikely to be sympathetic to an insurance company that
decides not to pay when an engine failure causes a forced landing
because the named insured was taking a disqualifying medication.
They're likely to think that the medication isn't relevant to the
accident, that the insurance company is just trying to weasel out on a
technicality, and award the plaintiff the entire claim, legal fees,
court costs, and anything else they can think of. Insurers know this
- that's why denying claims on this basis is very, very rare.

Michael

[Ira Rampil]

OK,

As a lurking AME, my take is

1) There is no official list ok approved and disapproved drugs.

2) The AOPA list is not official but somehow, mysteriously, some
kind soul at Oak City keeps it honest to current medical standards.
He told me so himself, but I can't say who.

3) You are responsible for knowing (through any number of means) about
the acceptability of the drugs you take. No exceptions.

4) The FAA is very unlikely to come looking for you unless you give them
a big reason.

5) If you crash, just keep in mind that the FAA has a wonderful lab
in Oak City where a few blood and or tissue samples will confirm exactly
what you took. Please note that this swings both ways. The FAA lab
has been absolutely invaluable to families where the local coroner
detected alcohol, but the FAA proved it was post-mortem and not
a reason to deny a claim.

6) Finally, if you play ball, almost no one gets a permanent denial.
Almost anything can be appealed and will get a special issuance if you
provide what Oak City requests as documentation. The main
permanent disqualifiers these days are heart transplants or active
psychosis (sorry to many RAH denizens ;-) )

7) Finally, IMHO and total not official is that SSRI meds are being
reexamined and may be rendered non-disqualifying in the near future.
Just don't hold me to it.

Ira N224XS (out of paint shop, into upholstery)

[Morgans]

"Ira Rampil" > wrote in message
...
> OK,
>
> As a lurking AME, my take is
>
>
> 7) Finally, IMHO and total not official is that SSRI meds are being
> reexamined and may be rendered non-disqualifying in the near future.
> Just don't hold me to it.
>
> Ira N224XS (out of paint shop, into upholstery)

What are SSRI meds?
--
---Jim in NC---

[Prozac Pete]

Ira Rampil > wrote:

>7) Finally, IMHO and total not official is that SSRI meds are being
>reexamined and may be rendered non-disqualifying in the near future.
>Just don't hold me to it.

"Hey look, more thunderstorms ahead. No biggie though, we'll just
ease on through." -- Prozac Pete

[Corrie]

There are also certain meds used both for depression, and in much
lower doses, for preventing migraine headaches. I suspect that the
concern is with the listed side-effect of drowsiness, but as I
understand it, side effects vary from person to person. I'm sure that
migraine sufferers would be delighted if those meds made it onto the
approved list as well.

Russell Kent > wrote in message >...
> Jim Morgans asked:
>
> > What are SSRI meds?
>
> SSRI: Selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor
> A whole class of "feel good" medications used for the treatment of certain
> pschological conditions (notably depression). Examples: Paxil, Prozac,
> Zoloft, Celexa, Luvox/Apo-Fluvoxamine, Lexapro, Sarafem/Fluoxetine
>
> Russell Kent

[Morgans]

"Corrie" > wrote in message
om...
> There are also certain meds used both for depression, and in much
> lower doses, for preventing migraine headaches. I suspect that the
> concern is with the listed side-effect of drowsiness, but as I
> understand it, side effects vary from person to person. I'm sure that
> migraine sufferers would be delighted if those meds made it onto the
> approved list as well.

True, true. I used to have migraines, and took these medicines, but to my
surprise, when I was about 42, I grew out of the headaches. I no longer
take the stuff.

I was on it long enoug to know that there is no imparement, taken at those
low levels.
--
Jim in NC--

[Corrie]

> True, true. I used to have migraines, and took these medicines, but to my
> surprise, when I was about 42, I grew out of the headaches. I no longer
> take the stuff.

From your lips to God's ears. I've got a pounder right now that's
laughing at the Imitrex. Too much caffeine today I think.

[Morgans]

"Craig" > wrote in message
om...
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
>...
>
> >
> > True, true. I used to have migraines, and took these medicines, but to
my
> > surprise, when I was about 42, I grew out of the headaches. I no longer
> > take the stuff.
> >
> > I was on it long enoug to know that there is no imparement, taken at
those
> > low levels.
>
> I will differ with you on this. My wife has suffered from migraines
> since she was 6 years old. She is now considered 100% diabled due to
> the combination of drugs that were used several years ago to try and
> treat her daily migraine. The so called mild anti-depressants were the
> major factor in creating the problems she has. Prozac is one of the
> worst that you can take. She now has tardive diskensia, as well as
> several other problems, which are all a direct result of the use to
> seratonin uptake inhibitors.
>
> If you check the history of most of the people that seemed to suddenly
> snap and kill one or more, you will find that they were currently on
> or had been rapidly removed from drugs in this class. If you think
> that crap is mild, check out the book Toxic Psychiatry (sp?) by
> Breslin and look at how much Eli-Lily pays out in lawsuit settlements
> every year on just Prozac.
>
> BTW... you realize that Prozac is just a slightly altered from of LSD
> didn't you?
>
>
> Craig C.
>

It sounds like your wife's problem was much more severe than mine. I did
not take the prozac family of med, and I did not take multiple things. I
only took an antiseziure medicine, imipramine, and like I said, I now don't
need it. I do sympathize with your wife, and hope and pray for relief for
her.
--
Jim in NC--

[Ken Sandyeggo]

"Morgans" > wrote in message >...
> "Craig" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Morgans" > wrote in message
> >...
> >
> > >
> > > True, true. I used to have migraines, and took these medicines, but to
> my
> > > surprise, when I was about 42, I grew out of the headaches. I no longer
> > > take the stuff.
> > >
> > > I was on it long enoug to know that there is no imparement, taken at
> those
> > > low levels.
> >
> > I will differ with you on this. My wife has suffered from migraines
> > since she was 6 years old. She is now considered 100% diabled due to
> > the combination of drugs that were used several years ago to try and
> > treat her daily migraine. The so called mild anti-depressants were the
> > major factor in creating the problems she has. Prozac is one of the
> > worst that you can take. She now has tardive diskensia, as well as
> > several other problems, which are all a direct result of the use to
> > seratonin uptake inhibitors.
> >
> > If you check the history of most of the people that seemed to suddenly
> > snap and kill one or more, you will find that they were currently on
> > or had been rapidly removed from drugs in this class. If you think
> > that crap is mild, check out the book Toxic Psychiatry (sp?) by
> > Breslin and look at how much Eli-Lily pays out in lawsuit settlements
> > every year on just Prozac.
> >
> > BTW... you realize that Prozac is just a slightly altered from of LSD
> > didn't you?
> >
> >
> > Craig C.
> >
>
> It sounds like your wife's problem was much more severe than mine. I did
> not take the prozac family of med, and I did not take multiple things. I
> only took an antiseziure medicine, imipramine, and like I said, I now don't
> need it. I do sympathize with your wife, and hope and pray for relief for
> her.

Imipramine is also an anti-depressant. I have first hand knowledge if
you want to hear about my divorce....and I'm sure no one does. It was
about 15 years ago anyway. It probably saved my life by keeping me
level-headed when I wasn't. I thought and decided that I was feeling
fine one day and flushed them all down the toilet. The next evening I
was sitting at the kitchen table bawling uncontrollably for no
apparent reason.....at least to me. I refilled my prescription.
About a month later I was through with them. The trick is to taper off
gradually. I can see the danger with a quick withdrawl.

Ken J. - SDCAUSA

[Craig]

"Morgans" > wrote in message >...


> It sounds like your wife's problem was much more severe than mine. I did
> not take the prozac family of med, and I did not take multiple things. I
> only took an antiseziure medicine, imipramine, and like I said, I now don't
> need it. I do sympathize with your wife, and hope and pray for relief for
> her.

Thanks Jim, we now know that part of hers these days are pollution
induced as well as from heat stress. Thats the reason we are trying to
move out of the DFW area before the end of the year. We also finally
got her hooked up with a chronic pain specialist that has her on
methadone to keep the pain levels down to a low enough level that she
can function reasonably. It is really hard on her because it
destroyed her career and taken away a lot of her ability to do
sketching and pencil/charcoal art. Our two year old is the big joy in
her life and she says that he's the biggest reason that she can get
up every day and face all her problems.

Her problems are a downer at times, but we just push the power levers
up a little more and go on and do the best we can with what we have
and try to live life to the fullest....

Craig C.

[Big John]

Craig

My daughter was bed ridded for 5-6 years with Fibromyalgia. Just got a
group of medicines that have made her functional (not well but
functional). If you want I'll get the list of what she is taking and
send to you for our wife to look at and maybe try.

My daughter would have splitting headaches where I would have to take
her to emergency room and get (I believe) a Darvon shot (sp).

In any event, let me know if you want what she has done to 'recover'.

Best to your wife.


Big John

On 8 Aug 2003 15:05:04 -0700, (Craig) wrote:

>"Morgans" > wrote in message >...
>
>
>> It sounds like your wife's problem was much more severe than mine. I did
>> not take the prozac family of med, and I did not take multiple things. I
>> only took an antiseziure medicine, imipramine, and like I said, I now don't
>> need it. I do sympathize with your wife, and hope and pray for relief for
>> her.
>
>Thanks Jim, we now know that part of hers these days are pollution
>induced as well as from heat stress. Thats the reason we are trying to
>move out of the DFW area before the end of the year. We also finally
>got her hooked up with a chronic pain specialist that has her on
>methadone to keep the pain levels down to a low enough level that she
>can function reasonably. It is really hard on her because it
>destroyed her career and taken away a lot of her ability to do
>sketching and pencil/charcoal art. Our two year old is the big joy in
>her life and she says that he's the biggest reason that she can get
>up every day and face all her problems.
>
>Her problems are a downer at times, but we just push the power levers
>up a little more and go on and do the best we can with what we have
>and try to live life to the fullest....
>
>Craig C.

[Corrie]

I had a coworker with fibromyalgia. Rough stuff. Re SSRI withdrawal,
I've read recently that it's been implicated in youth suicides.
Leaves you saying, so NOW what? "Big boys / big girls don't cry"
didn't work either. The meds have been a godsend for some, obviously
the door to hell on earth for others.

Don't blame you for wanting to get out of DFW. I left in '79 and
haven't missed it much since. Hard to believe that Beltline though
Addison was two-lane blacktop!

Be careful about "pushing the power levers up" too much - rings can
get burned that way.

Corrie

[Craig]

(Corrie) wrote in message >...
> I had a coworker with fibromyalgia. Rough stuff. Re SSRI withdrawal,
> I've read recently that it's been implicated in youth suicides.
> Leaves you saying, so NOW what? "Big boys / big girls don't cry"
> didn't work either. The meds have been a godsend for some, obviously
> the door to hell on earth for others.

I agree that they are the best thing for some people, but what the
medical community forgets is that they need to carefully monitor the
patients that they give this stuff. One Dr. tried to give my wife some
new drug that had only been on the market about 4 or 5 weeks. He
hadn't bothered to even read the precautions from the vendor. First
thing it says is to monitor certain blood componets and liver
functions frequently during the first week and at least weekly
thereafter. He just gave her this crap and told her to take it and
come back in 6-10 weeks. I got to reading all the stuff with the drug
and found out that it had never been given to a patient for more than
three weeks and that 2 out of the total of 26 people that had been
given the drug died from complications within days of taking it.
Needless to say, we never went back and reported him to the referring
physician.


> Don't blame you for wanting to get out of DFW. I left in '79 and
> haven't missed it much since. Hard to believe that Beltline though
> Addison was two-lane blacktop!

Did the same thing in Houston back in '80...


> Be careful about "pushing the power levers up" too much - rings can
> get burned that way.
>
Never past METO....havent broken the witness wire on the War Emergency
switch yet...


Craig C.