Syrian MiG-21 in trouble

[Dave Kearton]

--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[CWO4 Dave Mann]

I wonder if the rotation to inverted is a component of loss of control
or the pilot thinking he has a better chance for successful ejection by
shooting himself down. Bad habit to learn, however, if you are on the
ground.

Cheers,

Dave

[Grumpy AuContraire[_2_]]

CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:

> I wonder if the rotation to inverted is a component of loss of control
> or the pilot thinking he has a better chance for successful ejection by
> shooting himself down. Bad habit to learn, however, if you are on the
> ground.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>


I think that I would go with the "loss of control" proposition as has
been evidenced in both, military and commercial crashes.

I clearly remember the instructions when regarding OV-1 ejections that a
"nose up" attitude was highly desired.

Came close a couple of times but never had to "pull the pin."

JT

[CWO4 Dave Mann]

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>
>> I wonder if the rotation to inverted is a component of loss of control
>> or the pilot thinking he has a better chance for successful ejection
>> by shooting himself down. Bad habit to learn, however, if you are on
>> the ground.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
>
> I think that I would go with the "loss of control" proposition as has
> been evidenced in both, military and commercial crashes.
>
> I clearly remember the instructions when regarding OV-1 ejections that a
> "nose up" attitude was highly desired.
>
> Came close a couple of times but never had to "pull the pin."
>
> JT
>
>

Nose up even if you enter a stall environment. The tail reminded me of
a Ginzu Tomato slicer as seen on TV.

Sure wish I could find one of those South American 'hawks that would
make it back to here. And of course, that includes winning the
PowerBall so I could afford it. Imagine having the "Pimp my Ride" crew
do up your hawk.

Sweet.

Cheers,

Dave

[Grumpy AuContraire[_2_]]

CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:

> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if the rotation to inverted is a component of loss of
>>> control or the pilot thinking he has a better chance for successful
>>> ejection by shooting himself down. Bad habit to learn, however, if
>>> you are on the ground.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>
>>
>> I think that I would go with the "loss of control" proposition as has
>> been evidenced in both, military and commercial crashes.
>>
>> I clearly remember the instructions when regarding OV-1 ejections that
>> a "nose up" attitude was highly desired.
>>
>> Came close a couple of times but never had to "pull the pin."
>>
>> JT
>>
>>
>
> Nose up even if you enter a stall environment. The tail reminded me of
> a Ginzu Tomato slicer as seen on TV.
>
> Sure wish I could find one of those South American 'hawks that would
> make it back to here. And of course, that includes winning the
> PowerBall so I could afford it. Imagine having the "Pimp my Ride" crew
> do up your hawk.
>
> Sweet.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave


Well, I do have a "hawk," but it wasn't built by Grumman...

JT

[CWO4 Dave Mann]

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>
>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder if the rotation to inverted is a component of loss of
>>>> control or the pilot thinking he has a better chance for successful
>>>> ejection by shooting himself down. Bad habit to learn, however, if
>>>> you are on the ground.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that I would go with the "loss of control" proposition as has
>>> been evidenced in both, military and commercial crashes.
>>>
>>> I clearly remember the instructions when regarding OV-1 ejections
>>> that a "nose up" attitude was highly desired.
>>>
>>> Came close a couple of times but never had to "pull the pin."
>>>
>>> JT
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Nose up even if you enter a stall environment. The tail reminded me
>> of a Ginzu Tomato slicer as seen on TV.
>>
>> Sure wish I could find one of those South American 'hawks that would
>> make it back to here. And of course, that includes winning the
>> PowerBall so I could afford it. Imagine having the "Pimp my Ride"
>> crew do up your hawk.
>>
>> Sweet.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dave
>
>
> Well, I do have a "hawk," but it wasn't built by Grumman...
>
> JT
>
>


OMG! The stories I could tell you about my adventure with two Golden
Hawks with less than 25,000 miles both parked and covered in a garage in
the small town of Mann's Crossing, PA. Plus one of my best friends, Tom
LeJeune (Panel 01W - Line 37) had one that would smoke the roads between
Fort Holabird, MD and West Miflin, PA.

I once got a great tour of the Avanti factory production line when after
the Avanti had been bought out. I did an inspection at the AMG
Factory in South Bend and the security manager took me over to see the
line. Man if I hadn't been only an SSG at the time, I would have driven
one back to DC. $19,500 and drive away.

Tell me about yours!!!! Please!!!

Dave

[Grumpy AuContraire[_2_]]

CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:

> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>>
>>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if the rotation to inverted is a component of loss of
>>>>> control or the pilot thinking he has a better chance for successful
>>>>> ejection by shooting himself down. Bad habit to learn, however, if
>>>>> you are on the ground.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think that I would go with the "loss of control" proposition as
>>>> has been evidenced in both, military and commercial crashes.
>>>>
>>>> I clearly remember the instructions when regarding OV-1 ejections
>>>> that a "nose up" attitude was highly desired.
>>>>
>>>> Came close a couple of times but never had to "pull the pin."
>>>>
>>>> JT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nose up even if you enter a stall environment. The tail reminded me
>>> of a Ginzu Tomato slicer as seen on TV.
>>>
>>> Sure wish I could find one of those South American 'hawks that would
>>> make it back to here. And of course, that includes winning the
>>> PowerBall so I could afford it. Imagine having the "Pimp my Ride"
>>> crew do up your hawk.
>>>
>>> Sweet.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, I do have a "hawk," but it wasn't built by Grumman...
>>
>> JT
>>
>>
>
>
> OMG! The stories I could tell you about my adventure with two Golden
> Hawks with less than 25,000 miles both parked and covered in a garage in
> the small town of Mann's Crossing, PA. Plus one of my best friends, Tom
> LeJeune (Panel 01W - Line 37) had one that would smoke the roads between
> Fort Holabird, MD and West Miflin, PA.
>
> I once got a great tour of the Avanti factory production line when after
> the Avanti had been bought out. I did an inspection at the AMG Factory
> in South Bend and the security manager took me over to see the line.
> Man if I hadn't been only an SSG at the time, I would have driven one
> back to DC. $19,500 and drive away.
>
> Tell me about yours!!!! Please!!!
>
> Dave
>


Attached, is a pic of Nate Altman (who bought the Avanti line from
Studebaker) and Gene Hardig who did his engineering work and was the
former head of engineering for Studebaker.

My car is a '56 Power Hawk (Commander equivalent) that I bought from the
original owner in February of 1966 just prior to military separation.
In fact, I remember distinctly driving from the 116th to Ft Myers when
the announcement that Studebaker was ceasing operations in Canada blared
over the AM radio!

The car has just over 90K on the odometer and I (jokingly) have
designated as my burial container.

BTW, the height of Avanti production was the '64 model year during the
Studebaker years. Imagine the R-3 that would do over 170 mph direct
from the factory! I did own a '63 R-1 from 1970 to 1990 though..



JT

[CWO4 Dave Mann]

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>
>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>>>
>>>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if the rotation to inverted is a component of loss of
>>>>>> control or the pilot thinking he has a better chance for
>>>>>> successful ejection by shooting himself down. Bad habit to learn,
>>>>>> however, if you are on the ground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that I would go with the "loss of control" proposition as
>>>>> has been evidenced in both, military and commercial crashes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I clearly remember the instructions when regarding OV-1 ejections
>>>>> that a "nose up" attitude was highly desired.
>>>>>
>>>>> Came close a couple of times but never had to "pull the pin."
>>>>>
>>>>> JT
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nose up even if you enter a stall environment. The tail reminded me
>>>> of a Ginzu Tomato slicer as seen on TV.
>>>>
>>>> Sure wish I could find one of those South American 'hawks that would
>>>> make it back to here. And of course, that includes winning the
>>>> PowerBall so I could afford it. Imagine having the "Pimp my Ride"
>>>> crew do up your hawk.
>>>>
>>>> Sweet.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I do have a "hawk," but it wasn't built by Grumman...
>>>
>>> JT
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> OMG! The stories I could tell you about my adventure with two Golden
>> Hawks with less than 25,000 miles both parked and covered in a garage
>> in the small town of Mann's Crossing, PA. Plus one of my best
>> friends, Tom LeJeune (Panel 01W - Line 37) had one that would smoke
>> the roads between Fort Holabird, MD and West Miflin, PA.
>>
>> I once got a great tour of the Avanti factory production line when
>> after the Avanti had been bought out. I did an inspection at the AMG
>> Factory in South Bend and the security manager took me over to see the
>> line. Man if I hadn't been only an SSG at the time, I would have
>> driven one back to DC. $19,500 and drive away.
>>
>> Tell me about yours!!!! Please!!!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
>
> Attached, is a pic of Nate Altman (who bought the Avanti line from
> Studebaker) and Gene Hardig who did his engineering work and was the
> former head of engineering for Studebaker.
>
> My car is a '56 Power Hawk (Commander equivalent) that I bought from the
> original owner in February of 1966 just prior to military separation. In
> fact, I remember distinctly driving from the 116th to Ft Myers when the
> announcement that Studebaker was ceasing operations in Canada blared
> over the AM radio!
>
> The car has just over 90K on the odometer and I (jokingly) have
> designated as my burial container.
>
> BTW, the height of Avanti production was the '64 model year during the
> Studebaker years. Imagine the R-3 that would do over 170 mph direct
> from the factory! I did own a '63 R-1 from 1970 to 1990 though..
>
>
>
> JT
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Darn JT, and when I was at the 116th I was driving a VW Bug!

Cheers!

Dave

[Grumpy AuContraire[_2_]]

CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:

> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>>
>>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if the rotation to inverted is a component of loss of
>>>>>>> control or the pilot thinking he has a better chance for
>>>>>>> successful ejection by shooting himself down. Bad habit to
>>>>>>> learn, however, if you are on the ground.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that I would go with the "loss of control" proposition as
>>>>>> has been evidenced in both, military and commercial crashes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I clearly remember the instructions when regarding OV-1 ejections
>>>>>> that a "nose up" attitude was highly desired.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Came close a couple of times but never had to "pull the pin."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nose up even if you enter a stall environment. The tail reminded
>>>>> me of a Ginzu Tomato slicer as seen on TV.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure wish I could find one of those South American 'hawks that
>>>>> would make it back to here. And of course, that includes winning
>>>>> the PowerBall so I could afford it. Imagine having the "Pimp my
>>>>> Ride" crew do up your hawk.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sweet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I do have a "hawk," but it wasn't built by Grumman...
>>>>
>>>> JT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OMG! The stories I could tell you about my adventure with two Golden
>>> Hawks with less than 25,000 miles both parked and covered in a garage
>>> in the small town of Mann's Crossing, PA. Plus one of my best
>>> friends, Tom LeJeune (Panel 01W - Line 37) had one that would smoke
>>> the roads between Fort Holabird, MD and West Miflin, PA.
>>>
>>> I once got a great tour of the Avanti factory production line when
>>> after the Avanti had been bought out. I did an inspection at the
>>> AMG Factory in South Bend and the security manager took me over to
>>> see the line. Man if I hadn't been only an SSG at the time, I would
>>> have driven one back to DC. $19,500 and drive away.
>>>
>>> Tell me about yours!!!! Please!!!
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>
>>
>> Attached, is a pic of Nate Altman (who bought the Avanti line from
>> Studebaker) and Gene Hardig who did his engineering work and was the
>> former head of engineering for Studebaker.
>>
>> My car is a '56 Power Hawk (Commander equivalent) that I bought from
>> the original owner in February of 1966 just prior to military
>> separation. In fact, I remember distinctly driving from the 116th to
>> Ft Myers when the announcement that Studebaker was ceasing operations
>> in Canada blared over the AM radio!
>>
>> The car has just over 90K on the odometer and I (jokingly) have
>> designated as my burial container.
>>
>> BTW, the height of Avanti production was the '64 model year during the
>> Studebaker years. Imagine the R-3 that would do over 170 mph direct
>> from the factory! I did own a '63 R-1 from 1970 to 1990 though..
>>
>>
>>
>> JT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> Darn JT, and when I was at the 116th I was driving a VW Bug!
>
> Cheers!
>
> Dave
>


Heh! I used to get them thar' thangs caught in my tire threads all the
time... Damned annoying at that!

What is ironic is that after I got out, I went to work for a NASA
contractor as a shift supervisor for the NIMBUS weather satellite
project which operated 24/7 with rotating shifts. After seven months of
that, I had had 'nuff and have never done so since.

JT