Survival Kits

[ContestID67]

I am a big believer in having some form of survival kit in my glider.
Even in the "wilds" of the midwest I can get stuck outside for a while
before being "rescued". I am always on the lookout for items to add
to my kit which I have built up over time. Whistles, fire starters,
signal mirrors, space blankets, etc.

There was a small sidebar article in today's Chicago Tribune that
caught my eye about a company that makes compact survival kits
intended for the car, etc. One small one in particular seems like a
nice thing to have and I thought that I would pass it on. Enjoy.

http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/kit_detail.asp?series=1000&seriesNav=&kit=1001&kitNO=0140-0707

[Stewart Kissel]

Just out of curiousity...has any pilot died of exposure
after landing out?

[Bill Daniels]

For some other ideas, Google "Aviators Survival Vest".

Bill Daniels

"ContestID67" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I am a big believer in having some form of survival kit in my glider.
> Even in the "wilds" of the midwest I can get stuck outside for a while
> before being "rescued". I am always on the lookout for items to add
> to my kit which I have built up over time. Whistles, fire starters,
> signal mirrors, space blankets, etc.
>
> There was a small sidebar article in today's Chicago Tribune that
> caught my eye about a company that makes compact survival kits
> intended for the car, etc. One small one in particular seems like a
> nice thing to have and I thought that I would pass it on. Enjoy.
>
> http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/kit_detail.asp?series=1000&seriesNav=&kit=1001&kitNO=0140-0707
>

[COLIN LAMB]

"Just out of curiousity...has any pilot died of exposure after landing out?"

Yes - many. That answer is in response to the word "pilots". As to
sailplane pilots, I am not sure. Sailplane pilots tend not to fly during
inclement weather in the middle of winter, so the odds improve.

I teach survival classes to our Search and Rescue group. The most important
things are food and water - then heat. Knowing how to start a fire can be
critical when the weather is inclement. A few years ago we found a hunter
and two sons that were suffering from severe hypothermia. They had many
matches but could not start a fire.

The soaring pilot has a lot of things going for him, especially with an ELT.
Perhaps the most critical thing is hydration. Without it, you can die in a
couple of days. If you keep other pilots informed where you are, you are
unlikely to be missing long.

Colin

[[email protected]]

On Mar 1, 8:21 pm, "COLIN LAMB" > wrote:
> "Just out of curiousity...has any pilot died of exposure after landing out?"
>
> Yes - many. That answer is in response to the word "pilots". As to
> sailplane pilots, I am not sure. Sailplane pilots tend not to fly during
> inclement weather in the middle of winter, so the odds improve.
>
> I teach survival classes to our Search and Rescue group. The most important
> things are food and water - then heat. Knowing how to start a fire can be
> critical when the weather is inclement. A few years ago we found a hunter
> and two sons that were suffering from severe hypothermia. They had many
> matches but could not start a fire.
>
> The soaring pilot has a lot of things going for him, especially with an ELT.
> Perhaps the most critical thing is hydration. Without it, you can die in a
> couple of days. If you keep other pilots informed where you are, you are
> unlikely to be missing long.
>
> Colin


Survival kits are for pussies.

I've watched enough of Bear Grylls to know that I can survive in any
environment with nothing more than a pocket knife, a water bottle, and
a film crew.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 1, 11:23 pm, wrote:
> On Mar 1, 8:21 pm, "COLIN LAMB" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Just out of curiousity...has any pilot died of exposure after landing out?"
>
> > Yes - many. That answer is in response to the word "pilots". As to
> > sailplane pilots, I am not sure. Sailplane pilots tend not to fly during
> > inclement weather in the middle of winter, so the odds improve.
>
> > I teach survival classes to our Search and Rescue group. The most important
> > things are food and water - then heat. Knowing how to start a fire can be
> > critical when the weather is inclement. A few years ago we found a hunter
> > and two sons that were suffering from severe hypothermia. They had many
> > matches but could not start a fire.
>
> > The soaring pilot has a lot of things going for him, especially with an ELT.
> > Perhaps the most critical thing is hydration. Without it, you can die in a
> > couple of days. If you keep other pilots informed where you are, you are
> > unlikely to be missing long.
>
> > Colin
>
> Survival kits are for pussies.
>
> I've watched enough of Bear Grylls to know that I can survive in any
> environment with nothing more than a pocket knife, a water bottle, and
> a film crew.

check www.equipped.org

I have got to make room in my landout kit for a small novel this
season. waiting for retrieves gets pretty boring...

[Pete Brown]

" What you are wearing and the gear stuffed in your pockets
is your survival gear. What you left in the back of the
plane is your camping gear."

The Alaska version of this saying was developed by the
search teams that arrived at numerous crash sites where
there wasn't much useful left after impact in power planes
If you have to bail out of a glider in the western US, its
probably just as true.

http://www.silverparachutes.com/wst_page12.html

I have a medium SMAK from Silver Parachutes on my chute. I
threw out the strobe and stuffed in a space blanket, a
mosquito head net (mighty nice up here, you might want to
substitute a power bar), and extra matches.


Pete
Anchorage

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/

[Bert Willing]

I guess once you have been siiting for a night or two on a glacier in
10'000ft in the middle of August, you might re-think that phrase...

"COLIN LAMB" > wrote in message
nk.net...
.. That answer is in response to the word "pilots". As to
> sailplane pilots, I am not sure. Sailplane pilots tend not to fly during
> inclement weather in the middle of winter, so the odds improve.
>

[Trev Cook]

Dear American Friends,

You chaps just dont get it! The British Empire established itself on the =
fine tradition of the Pub! Any sensible glider pilot lands near one, is =
well fortified with the local food and nectar, and is then rescued by =
their crew, who then partake of the local treats after a good retrieve. =
Shame you chaps went native, never mind.

Regards,

Trev
--- Original Message -----=20


From: Glider Pilot Network=20
To: Trev Cook=20
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: [r.a.s] Re: Survival Kits



-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: Survival Kits
Author: Pete Brown >
Date/Time: 07:00 02 March 2007

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
" What you are wearing and the gear stuffed in your pockets=20
is your survival gear. What you left in the back of the=20
plane is your camping gear."

The Alaska version of this saying was developed by the=20
search teams that arrived at numerous crash sites where=20
there wasn't much useful left after impact in power planes=20
If you have to bail out of a glider in the western US, its=20
probably just as true.

http://www.silverparachutes.com/wst_page12.html

I have a medium SMAK from Silver Parachutes on my chute. I=20
threw out the strobe and stuffed in a space blanket, a=20
mosquito head net (mighty nice up here, you might want to=20
substitute a power bar), and extra matches.


Pete
Anchorage

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/





-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


--

[Andreas Alin]

COLIN LAMB wrote:
> "Just out of curiousity...has any pilot died of exposure after landing out?"
>
> Yes - many. That answer is in response to the word "pilots". As to
> sailplane pilots, I am not sure. Sailplane pilots tend not to fly during
> inclement weather in the middle of winter, so the odds improve.

> Colin

I heard about a case in the alps where a crashed glider pilot was not
found by a search an rescue team because he left his glider. I think he
was frozen to death.

Andreas

[Markus Graeber]

On Mar 2, 7:07 am, Andreas Alin
> wrote:
> COLIN LAMB wrote:
> > "Just out of curiousity...has any pilot died of exposure after landing out?"
>
> > Yes - many. That answer is in response to the word "pilots". As to
> > sailplane pilots, I am not sure. Sailplane pilots tend not to fly during
> > inclement weather in the middle of winter, so the odds improve.
> > Colin
>
> I heard about a case in the alps where a crashed glider pilot was not
> found by a search an rescue team because he left his glider. I think he
> was frozen to death.
>
> Andreas

We had a landout in mid April last year that almost killed the pilot
due to hypothermia. You can read and learn about it here:

http://www.abqsoaring.org/news/Towlines_06_05.pdf
http://www.abqsoaring.org/news/Towlines_06_06.pdf

Hypothermia is most likely your biggest enemy, even in the summer,
since it can still get pretty cold at night, especially at high
altitudes and in desert environments.

Markus

[COLIN LAMB]

"I guess once you have been siiting for a night or two on a glacier in
10'000ft in the middle of August, you might re-think that phrase..."

While that is possible, the odds are that the weather will be clear and if
you have any friends searching for you, a signal mirror works for at least
20 miles and possibly more. Even a old cd works as a signal mirror. If you
are flying over glaciers, then some warm clothing would be useful.

The fact is that you can die of expsure or dehydration or starvation in the
middle of summer when you take an automobile trip, but it is less likely
than in the winter.

Colin

[Bert Willing]

Colin,

anywhere during the season we fly over alpine deserts, and when friends
start to search, it is typically after nightfall. Mountains at night don't
ressemble anything connected to the word "summer".

"COLIN LAMB" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> "I guess once you have been siiting for a night or two on a glacier in
> 10'000ft in the middle of August, you might re-think that phrase..."
>
> While that is possible, the odds are that the weather will be clear and if
> you have any friends searching for you, a signal mirror works for at least
> 20 miles and possibly more. Even a old cd works as a signal mirror. If
> you are flying over glaciers, then some warm clothing would be useful.
>
> The fact is that you can die of expsure or dehydration or starvation in
> the middle of summer when you take an automobile trip, but it is less
> likely than in the winter.
>
> Colin
>

[Michael Ash]

wrote:
> Survival kits are for pussies.
>
> I've watched enough of Bear Grylls to know that I can survive in any
> environment with nothing more than a pocket knife, a water bottle, and
> a film crew.

Come on now, you'll probably be in that field less than a day, there's no
need to resort to cannibalism.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[COLIN LAMB]

"anywhere during the season we fly over alpine deserts, and when friends
start to search, it is typically after nightfall. Mountains at night don't
ressemble anything connected to the word "summer".

I regularly am on the searching end - whether it be the mountains or desert.
We had two different groups die in Oregon this year. Both made the national
news. In both cases, poor decisions were made, which cost lives. In
Oregon hypothermia occurs most often with above freezing temperatures and
precipitation. At least, during most of the soaring season, we do not have
much precipitation where we have to land out. And, while the temperatures
may get to cold at night, the insulation from a parachute will keep the body
heat where it belongs.

The question that I responded to was whether a pilot had died after landing
out. I know of a number of pilots of powered aircraft that have - but no
soaring pilots. At least in Oregon, during the winter there may be days on
end when the mountains are clouded in bad weather and searches are
difficult. That is not the case during most of the soaring season.

As I get older, I take less gear with me (when on the ground) so I can cover
sufficient territory. I bring enough to survive, not be comfortable. I
always carry a metal match with me and a pocket knife - and with that I can
stay warm. I do carry sufficient water and a filtration system. And, if I
would happen to get stuck out in the woods during a critical time, they
would find me when they came to put out the forest fire.

Colin

[COLIN LAMB]

One survival tool I take is my wooden glider.

Colin

[[email protected]]

COLIN LAMB wrote:
> One survival tool I take is my wooden glider.

Good point. How easy is it to burn fiberglass?

Should make light, heat, and SMOKE -- no?


Jack

[309]

It's not going native...we drink beer, too (sometimes we resort to
English beer).

In the U.S., it's a matter of Real Estate! Location, location,
location. Which if you keep track of yours, and keep a crew informed
of it, you shouldn't experience hypothermia, or vitamin Beer
deficiencies.

I did hear a story of a lost glider pilot whose skeleton was found in
a very narrow crevice near Tehachapi. So "landout" glider pilots have
perished.

I carry the SMAK Pak on my chute, and leave additonal goodies in the
glider. I'm waiting for Camelbak to come out with a hydration system
that includes a certified parachute, a solar still, survival gear and
a satellite dish.

I like the advice and stories. The Boy Scout Motto is "Be
Prepared." Sometimes I tell folks that it's really an inverse Murphy-
ism: If you ARE prepared, you won't need the emergency gear (e.g.,
parachute, space blanket, condom -- apologies to the ladies). But
thus far, that's how my luck has held up. And I'll wear my parachute
whether it's a talisman or a booster cushion for my vertically
challenged frame. I don't think the glider can tell the difference.

The ELT in my glider isn't for me: it's for my wife and kids!!! And
for that reason, I keep fresh batteries in it...

My most memorable landout? I landed on the runway next to Cherry
Patch Ranch, in Nevada. For those that don't know it, Cherry Patch
Ranch advertises itself as the closest (legal) bordello to the city of
Las Vegas. Took my crew a while to find a hole in the fence to get
the trailer to the glider (at least that's what he SAID). When I
fessed up and told my wife of my "adventure," she asked me: "Did you
get one of the ladies to sign your logbook?" (I kid you not). Bless
the lass...and I am blessed with her.

Even if I wasn't an Eagle Scout, I'd end my post with "Be Prepared."
Cheap insurance. This is a good thread...thank you to all who've
posted.

-Pete
#309.

Trev Cook wrote:
> Shame you chaps went native, never mind.
>
> Regards,
>
> Trev

[Mike Lindsay]

In article <1172843931.833696.14060@j27g200
>
>We had a landout in mid April last year that almost killed the pilot
>due to hypothermia. You can read and learn about it here:
>
>http://www.abqsoaring.org/news/Towlines_06_05.pdf
>http://www.abqsoaring.org/news/Towlines_06_06.pdf
>
>Hypothermia is most likely your biggest enemy, even in the summer,
>since it can still get pretty cold at night, especially at high
>altitudes and in desert environments.
>
>Markus
>
Some years ago I joined an expedition to Aosta in the Italian Alps. The
local guy told us that each glider had a survival pack containing a
space blanket, a mirror and a torch (flashlight). No food, because
"you will be dead of cold before you starve!"

He advised pulling the parachute and using it for extra insulation if
you were stuck on a mountain.
--
Mike Lindsay

[Mike Lindsay]

In article >, Trev Cook <REMOVE_TO_RE
> writes
>Dear American Friends,
>
>You chaps just dont get it! The British Empire established itself on the =
>fine tradition of the Pub! Any sensible glider pilot lands near one, is =
>well fortified with the local food and nectar, and is then rescued by =
>their crew, who then partake of the local treats after a good retrieve. =
>Shame you chaps went native, never mind.
>
>Regards,
>
>Trev
>--- Original Message -----=20
>
>
Yebbut, there ARE places in the UK that are miles and miles from any
pub.

Like the middle of Dartmoor or the Cairngorms.


--
Mike Lindsay

[Bert Willing]

The resin in a composite glider burns very well, but you'll need a loooooong
match :-)

> wrote in message
t...
> COLIN LAMB wrote:
>> One survival tool I take is my wooden glider.
>
> Good point. How easy is it to burn fiberglass?
>
> Should make light, heat, and SMOKE -- no?
>
>
> Jack

[Jim Vincent]

I know of one glass glider that burned because of a short in the electrical
system. Instead of using matches, just short the battery!
"Bert Willing" > wrote in message
...
> The resin in a composite glider burns very well, but you'll need a
> loooooong match :-)
>
> > wrote in message
> t...
>> COLIN LAMB wrote:
>>> One survival tool I take is my wooden glider.
>>
>> Good point. How easy is it to burn fiberglass?
>>
>> Should make light, heat, and SMOKE -- no?
>>
>>
>> Jack
>
>

[01-- Zero One]

Just a reminder, _ALWAYS_ have a fuse mounted on the battery for just
such occurrences....



Larry Goddard

"01" USA





"Jim Vincent" > wrote in message
:

> I know of one glass glider that burned because of a short in the electrical
> system. Instead of using matches, just short the battery!
> "Bert Willing" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The resin in a composite glider burns very well, but you'll need a
> > loooooong match :-)
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > t...
> >> COLIN LAMB wrote:
> >>> One survival tool I take is my wooden glider.
> >>
> >> Good point. How easy is it to burn fiberglass?
> >>
> >> Should make light, heat, and SMOKE -- no?
> >>
> >>
> >> Jack
> >
> >

[[email protected]]

309 wrote: "I did hear a story of a lost glider pilot whose skeleton
was found in a very narrow crevice near Tehachapi. So "landout"
glider pilots have perished."

Just to clarify -- this story probably was about the paraglider pilot
who was last seen flying normally near the launch site in 2003. His
remains were found over 20 months later by some hikers. I have not
read the coroner's report on this tragedy nor have I heard anything
definitive on the cause. I personally flew my paraglider over this
site many times at low altitude after his disappearance and never saw
him - and I was looking! Apparently, his body and gear were hidden by
the scrub brush common in the area. I have read that this location was
"isolated" but it actually is near a very active an populated area.
The exact location was a steep and extreme hillside but it was very
close to a very active state highway.
Steve

[ContestID67]

I read about the landout along the Allengany Mountains and imagined
the overnight survival adventure the pilot had.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.soaring/browse_thread/thread/7dce41edf599cacc/#.

It got me thinking about my own glider survival kit that I have built
up over the years. My son will be hiking in the desert region of Utah
and I shared with him what I had in my kit. I then decided to put
together a small web site of the contents. Maybe sharing this will
help someone in the future.

See http://geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/ for details.

Good luck out there.

- John "67R" DeRosa

[Ramy]

I would add few more items from my survival kit (most of them are
handy also in non emergencies):
1 - A fully charged cell phone.
2 - A spare cell phone battery.
3 - A handheld radio.
4 - A small handheld GPS if you don't carry a GPS ELT.
5 - A flare.

I try to carry most of it on me for easy access and in case of a
bailout.

Ramy



On Apr 19, 1:58 pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
> I read about the landout along the Allengany Mountains and imagined
> the overnight survival adventure the pilot had.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.soaring/browse_thread/thr....
>
> It got me thinking about my own glider survival kit that I have built
> up over the years. My son will be hiking in the desert region of Utah
> and I shared with him what I had in my kit. I then decided to put
> together a small web site of the contents. Maybe sharing this will
> help someone in the future.
>
> Seehttp://geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/for details.
>
> Good luck out there.
>
> - John "67R" DeRosa

[[email protected]]

I would also add an adapter cables to power cell phones or handheld
VHF from the glider batteries. Preferably allowing them to directly
plug into the battery even if everything else is destroyed. Since my
own glider and our club gliders are standardized power connectors on
Anderson Powerpoles it makes it easy to carry common adapters.

I'd also add printing out a list of contact phone numbers for when the
cell phone dies but you can walk to a farm house etc.

I also have my personal list of emergency equipment posted at
http://www.darrylramm.com/glider-survival-equipment.

Darryl

On Apr 19, 3:11 pm, Ramy > wrote:
> I would add few more items from my survival kit (most of them are
> handy also in non emergencies):
> 1 - A fully charged cell phone.
> 2 - A spare cell phone battery.
> 3 - A handheld radio.
> 4 - A small handheld GPS if you don't carry a GPS ELT.
> 5 - A flare.
>
> I try to carry most of it on me for easy access and in case of a
> bailout.
>
> Ramy
>
> On Apr 19, 1:58 pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
>
> > I read about the landout along the Allengany Mountains and imagined
> > the overnight survival adventure the pilot had.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.soaring/browse_thread/thr....
>
> > It got me thinking about my own glider survival kit that I have built
> > up over the years. My son will be hiking in the desert region of Utah
> > and I shared with him what I had in my kit. I then decided to put
> > together a small web site of the contents. Maybe sharing this will
> > help someone in the future.
>
> > Seehttp://geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/fordetails.
>
> > Good luck out there.
>
> > - John "67R" DeRosa

[Jack]

ContestID67 wrote:
> I read about the landout along the Allengany Mountains and imagined
> the overnight survival adventure the pilot had.
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.soaring/browse_thread/thread/7dce41edf599cacc/#.
>
> It got me thinking about my own glider survival kit that I have built
> up over the years. My son will be hiking in the desert region of Utah
> and I shared with him what I had in my kit. I then decided to put
> together a small web site of the contents. Maybe sharing this will
> help someone in the future.
>
> See http://geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/ for details.


I think your presentation is very helpful, John.

I would add that under the heading of "Nylon rope (small diameter)"
you might remind everyone that they have hundreds of feet of the
stuff disguised as their parachute lines.

Very strong, very available.


Jack

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

ContestID67 wrote:
>
> It got me thinking about my own glider survival kit that I have built
> up over the years. My son will be hiking in the desert region of Utah
> and I shared with him what I had in my kit. I then decided to put
> together a small web site of the contents. Maybe sharing this will
> help someone in the future.
>
> See http://geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/ for details.
>
Thanks for that list.

I have one suggestion: make sure the flashlight is an LED type. I found
a metal body one that's 20 mm x 160 mm (3/4" x 6 1/4" in old money) and
weighs 60 grams with batteries. The advantages are that its very tough,
you can't break the filament by dropping it and it will run for much
longer on its two AAA batteries than a conventional flashlight will on a
pair of AA cells.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Bill Daniels]

This thread prompted me to make a comparison test of my WWII vintage signal
mirror and a CD. I just went out into my back yard and aimed the reflected
beams at various targets.

In daylight, a signal mirror is an extremely effective device for getting
attention. For those not familiar with them, a signal mirror is just a
small mirror with a hole in it that you can look through to aim the
reflected sunlight beam. It might help for you and your crew to know the
Morse code SOS (...---...).

An unrecorded CD is light and cheap although somewhat large to go in
survival vest pockets. However, CD's are flexible enough that you hace to
be careful not to distort it and diffuse the reflected beam. CD's, being
plastic, will warp if left in an overheated cockpit. Even if not distorted,
the reflected beam is not concentrated enough to see the atmospheric
backscatter spot that lets you aim the beam at an overhead aircraft - at
least not in the 'severe clear' conditions of my test.

The WWII signal mirror is extremely flat and produces a tight beam whose
backscatter spot is easilly seen against a blue sky so you can keep the beam
on a moving airplane or car. There are many reports of this being seen 50+
miles away. I think I'll keep my vintage mirror.

Bill Daniels

[ContestID67]

Thanks for the thoughts. I already had the LED flashlight so I added
this note. Good thought on using the nylon ropes that make up your
parachute.

[toad]

On Apr 20, 1:46 pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
> Thanks for the thoughts. I already had the LED flashlight so I added
> this note. Good thought on using the nylon ropes that make up your
> parachute.

This light claims a 10 year shelf life for the battery, and has a
built in strobe.
http://www.rei.com/product/749039

Todd Smith

[Tony Verhulst]

> I have one suggestion: make sure the flashlight is an LED type. I found
> a metal body one that's 20 mm x 160 mm (3/4" x 6 1/4" in old money) and
> weighs 60 grams with batteries. The advantages are that its very tough,
> you can't break the filament by dropping it and it will run for much
> longer on its two AAA batteries than a conventional flashlight will on a
> pair of AA cells.

I think that is a good suggestion - as long as you understand that the
most common cause of flashlight (torch) failure is that the batteries
have aged and are depleted.

Tony V

[Doug Haluza]

I just have a cigarette lighter socket mounted under the rear
instrument panel, and carry my standard car charger in the seat pocket
whenever I fly. This way, if I land out, I can recharge my battery
while waiting for the retrieve crew to drive past my location, then I
can call them and tell them how to get back to where I am ;-)

This will only work if the glider electrical system is still
functioning, of course. But in an emergency, if I was able to move
around, I could always take the lighter socket out of the panel, strip
the wires back with my knife (or teeth) and wrap them around the
battery terminals.

The lighter socket is also handy for powering various accessories like
a laptop or PDA charger, car vacuum, or 12V tire pump when working on
the glider. I also use it with a male plug on my charger to recharge
the batteries overnight without removing them. Of course it's not FAA/
PMA approved, so it's only for experimental installations, of course!

On Apr 19, 7:40 pm, " >
wrote:
> I would also add an adapter cables to power cell phones or handheld
> VHF from the glider batteries. Preferably allowing them to directly
> plug into the battery even if everything else is destroyed. Since my
> own glider and our club gliders are standardized power connectors on
> Anderson Powerpoles it makes it easy to carry common adapters.
>
> I'd also add printing out a list of contact phone numbers for when the
> cell phone dies but you can walk to a farm house etc.
>
> I also have my personal list of emergency equipment posted athttp://www.darrylramm.com/glider-survival-equipment.
>
> Darryl
>
> On Apr 19, 3:11 pm, Ramy > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I would add few more items from my survival kit (most of them are
> > handy also in non emergencies):
> > 1 - A fully charged cell phone.
> > 2 - A spare cell phone battery.
> > 3 - A handheld radio.
> > 4 - A small handheld GPS if you don't carry a GPS ELT.
> > 5 - A flare.
>
> > I try to carry most of it on me for easy access and in case of a
> > bailout.
>
> > Ramy
>
> > On Apr 19, 1:58 pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
>
> > > I read about the landout along the Allengany Mountains and imagined
> > > the overnight survival adventure the pilot had.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.soaring/browse_thread/thr....
>
> > > It got me thinking about my own glider survival kit that I have built
> > > up over the years. My son will be hiking in the desert region of Utah
> > > and I shared with him what I had in my kit. I then decided to put
> > > together a small web site of the contents. Maybe sharing this will
> > > help someone in the future.
>
> > > Seehttp://geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/fordetails.
>
> > > Good luck out there.
>
> > > - John "67R" DeRosa- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Doug Haluza]

On Apr 19, 11:23 pm, Jack > wrote:
> ContestID67 wrote:
> > I read about the landout along the Allengany Mountains and imagined
> > the overnight survival adventure the pilot had.
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.soaring/browse_thread/thr....
>
> > It got me thinking about my own glider survival kit that I have built
> > up over the years. My son will be hiking in the desert region of Utah
> > and I shared with him what I had in my kit. I then decided to put
> > together a small web site of the contents. Maybe sharing this will
> > help someone in the future.
>
> > Seehttp://geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/for details.
>
> I think your presentation is very helpful, John.
>
> I would add that under the heading of "Nylon rope (small diameter)"
> you might remind everyone that they have hundreds of feet of the
> stuff disguised as their parachute lines.
>
> Very strong, very available.
>
> Jack

I carry a length of 2500lb "Muletape", which is a flat braided
poylester ribbon that you can roll up into a very tight little disk
and slip into a zip-lock sandwich bag. I have a Tost ring tied on one
end in case I need to pull my glider out of a muddy field with the
farmer's tractor (or human mules). I can also use the Tost ring for an
aero tow if I land at a gliderport that only uses Schweizer rings.

[Ralph Jones[_2_]]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:52:57 -0600, "Bill Daniels"
<bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
[snip]
>
>The WWII signal mirror is extremely flat and produces a tight beam whose
>backscatter spot is easilly seen against a blue sky so you can keep the beam
>on a moving airplane or car. There are many reports of this being seen 50+
>miles away. I think I'll keep my vintage mirror.
>
IIRC there was a way to aim it without the backscatter spot. It was a
half-silvered mirror, and you would align the hole, the target
airplane, and the mirror image of the bright spot the hole cast on
your face.

rj

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Ralph Jones wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:52:57 -0600, "Bill Daniels"
> <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
> [snip]
>> The WWII signal mirror is extremely flat and produces a tight beam whose
>> backscatter spot is easilly seen against a blue sky so you can keep the beam
>> on a moving airplane or car. There are many reports of this being seen 50+
>> miles away. I think I'll keep my vintage mirror.
>>
> IIRC there was a way to aim it without the backscatter spot. It was a
> half-silvered mirror, and you would align the hole, the target
> airplane, and the mirror image of the bright spot the hole cast on
> your face.
>
I had one when I was a kid.

It cane in a cloth envelope to protect its surface. The mirror was had a
hole drilled in the centre and was divided in quarters by two black
lines that met at the hole. It also had a sort of metal lollipop
attached to it by a chord that was stored in a sleeve sewn onto the
envelope. The lollipop disk was painted white and had a hole in the
centre. The idea was to sight the target through both holes and then
adjust the mirror so the reflected black lines crosses the lollipop hole.

Was this a standard signal mirror or the De Luxe model?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Bill Daniels]

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
> Ralph Jones wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:52:57 -0600, "Bill Daniels"
>> <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>> The WWII signal mirror is extremely flat and produces a tight beam whose
>>> backscatter spot is easilly seen against a blue sky so you can keep the
>>> beam on a moving airplane or car. There are many reports of this being
>>> seen 50+ miles away. I think I'll keep my vintage mirror.
>>>
>> IIRC there was a way to aim it without the backscatter spot. It was a
>> half-silvered mirror, and you would align the hole, the target
>> airplane, and the mirror image of the bright spot the hole cast on
>> your face.
>>
> I had one when I was a kid.
>
> It cane in a cloth envelope to protect its surface. The mirror was had a
> hole drilled in the centre and was divided in quarters by two black lines
> that met at the hole. It also had a sort of metal lollipop attached to it
> by a chord that was stored in a sleeve sewn onto the envelope. The
> lollipop disk was painted white and had a hole in the centre. The idea was
> to sight the target through both holes and then adjust the mirror so the
> reflected black lines crosses the lollipop hole.
>
> Was this a standard signal mirror or the De Luxe model?
>
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |


I haven't seen that one.

Mine just has a clear spot in the center. Since you are looking down the
axis of the reflected beam, any dust motes or moisture droplets in the air
will reflect directly back to your eye generating a visible spot for aiming.
I've never had it fail although in very clear air, the spot is faint. To
find the spot, first aim at the nearby ground and then track the beam onto
the target.

As a kid, I found these things in surplus stores for a buck. After a bit of
playing with them, I could send Morse code by gently tapping on the mirror
while holding it aimed at a distant target. It was more fun than a walkie
talkie or cellphone and it didn't need batteries.

19th century armies used a similar device called a Heliograph for long range
line of sight telegraphy. It was stealthy in that the signal was invisible
to anyone not in the direct beam. It has been reported that insurgents in
Afghanistan are still using them.

Bill Daniels

[Roger Worden]

There are some hand-cranked LED flashlights, very lightweight. Some of us
thought this would be a good alternative to battery-operated ones: no
batteries to go bad, and unlimited crank power. Alas, two of us have found
that the "DuraPro" brand have mysteriously stopped working after being
stored in our cars for a few months. Maybe vibration causes something to
fail? Anyway, we've gone back to battery LED flashlights in emergency kits.

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
> ContestID67 wrote:
> >
>> It got me thinking about my own glider survival kit that I have built
>> up over the years. My son will be hiking in the desert region of Utah
>> and I shared with him what I had in my kit. I then decided to put
>> together a small web site of the contents. Maybe sharing this will
>> help someone in the future.
>>
>> See http://geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/ for details.
>>
> Thanks for that list.
>
> I have one suggestion: make sure the flashlight is an LED type. I found a
> metal body one that's 20 mm x 160 mm (3/4" x 6 1/4" in old money) and
> weighs 60 grams with batteries. The advantages are that its very tough,
> you can't break the filament by dropping it and it will run for much
> longer on its two AAA batteries than a conventional flashlight will on a
> pair of AA cells.
>
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |

[ContestID67]

Thanks for all your thoughts. Some are new thoughts that hadn't
occurred to me and others items I already had but hadn't mentioned. I
have incorporated them on http://www.geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/.

Enjoy, John

[Jack]

ContestID67 wrote:

> Thanks for all your thoughts. Some are new thoughts that hadn't
> occurred to me and others items I already had but hadn't mentioned. I
> have incorporated them on http://www.geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/survival/.


Good list, John.

We forgot to mention that the chute fabric can provide some warmth,
shade, etc., and makes a pretty good signal to search aircraft when
spread out.

Just Googling various terms associated with this discussion can be
interesting, e.g., Wikipedia has an entry under "survival kit" that
may be helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_kit


Who knew about shoe polish?

-------

Also, do not miss:

"Equipped to Survive" online -- a great commercial resource for
information and equipment, where you will find such things as:

Multiservice Procedures For Survival, Evasion, And Recovery
1999, Air Land Sea Application Center, 104 pages,
7 3/8 x 4 1/2 x 3/8 inches, 5.7 oz., waterproof

http://www.equipped.org/multiservice_ser_manual_1999.pdf

"The latest version of the survival manual included in the
survival kits of the U.S. military. A distillation of the
information contained in the survival "bible," the USAF's
enormous tome on Survival Training, AFR 64-4, and updated
from the previous version.... Now a multi-service publication
used by all branches of the U.S. military.... There's little
to find fault with. Waterproof paper and top wire bound with
tan cover and pages with black ink (much easier to read than
the previous version). It's also much thinner and nearly half
the weight of the previous version. About as dry reading as
any other military manual, but all the information is there
in concise and easy to understand text with generally good
illustrations...."


An updated and revised U.S. Military Survival Manual renumbered
under the latest U.S. Military Field Manual numbering system to
FM 3-05.70, is available in html format here:

http://www.equipped.org/fm3-0570.htm

-------


So, between ContestID67, the U.S. Air Force, and Equipped to Survive
<http://www.equipped.org/> we have plenty to work with.

And remember, more than your equipment -- even more than your
training -- it's what's in your head and your heart that makes the
difference between survivor and victim. Stay alert, stay positive,
and live to fly another day.


Jack

[Jim Vincent]

Survival kits are obviously strongly recommended. I have one in my ship,
stashed in a storage compartment behind the wing. All well and good if I
land off field, but absolutely worthless to me if I have to bail out of the
ship.

Does anyone have any recommendations on how to pack a survival kit so that
it is attached to the parachute harness? Where would one put a survival
kit? TIA.

[Jack]

Jim Vincent wrote:
> Survival kits are obviously strongly recommended. I have one in my ship,
> stashed in a storage compartment behind the wing. All well and good if I
> land off field, but absolutely worthless to me if I have to bail out of the
> ship.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations on how to pack a survival kit so that
> it is attached to the parachute harness? Where would one put a survival
> kit? TIA.


There are small _kits_ which attach to the harness.

You can wear a _vest_ that holds a lot of gear.

The idea is not to spend the night out if you can avoid it, which
minimizes what you need to carry. Orientation and communication are
big factors in getting found. I like a hand-held GPS and small VHF
radio for the purpose, and the right _ELT_ can do the job when you
can't. Today cell phones can help too, in many areas.

You can wear cargo pants and shirt with fastened flapped or zippered
pockets and carry even more stuff, but you eventually risk having
problems getting out of the cockpit of you load yourself down with
too much stuff. Remember, it's not always a simple matter of rolling
over the side after releasing the canopy. An out of control ship can
impose g-loads that make it difficult to extricate yourself. The
bulk and extra cloth can hang up in ways you might not anticipate.

Being separated too far from the wreckage may not be that much of a
problem in a sailplane. You probably aren't going to jump out if the
ship is in one piece and controllable, so it may not go far without
you. Even so, the problem could be getting to the wreckage in rugged
terrain (or trees) where the relatively few meters that separate you
are mostly vertical, the visibility is restricted, and/or if you are
injured in the landing and mobility is reduced. I would put in the
sailplane those items which are impractical to carry on your person
but would be nice to have, and carry the essentials securely on the
harness or in my clothing.

Check out http://www.equipped.com for kits and information. It's
probably best to use something prepared by very knowledgeable people
than to cobble up something on your own and then find that you've
lost it in the process, or that the contents or quality are inadequate.

Do not discount the possibility you could end up in the water,
wherever you fly. It brings a whole new set of challenges. Even a
pond or small river could do you in, if you are not prepared for it.
Think immediately about where you are likely to come down, and
know the rudiments of steering your chute (not easy unless the chute
is specifically designed to be maneuverable, but it is possible).

I've been out of the tactical life for many years now, so my info
may be dated and incomplete, but a lot of information is available
on the 'Net. Be aggressive about finding and using it.


Jack

[Eric Greenwell]

Jack wrote:
> Jim Vincent wrote:
>> Survival kits are obviously strongly recommended. I have one in my
>> ship, stashed in a storage compartment behind the wing. All well and
>> good if I land off field, but absolutely worthless to me if I have to
>> bail out of the ship.

I carry about 4 pounds of emergency gear in the glider, not counting the
extra water and ELT. I do not have any of it on my parachute, because I
think the likelihood of bailing out is very small, and because I can't
recall any glider pilot that bailed out that needed survival gear. Does
anyone know of any instance a glider pilot that parachuted from his
glider, and then needed survival gear of any type that he couldn't
recover from the glider?

I realize the possibility is there, but it just seems remote. I'm not
suggesting a pilot shouldn't prepare for the possibility, since it seems
unlikely to cause any problems, as least as long as Jack's warnings are
heeded.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Wayne Paul]

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
news:E6AXh.4487$Rd.722@trndny08...
>
> I carry about 4 pounds of emergency gear in the glider, not counting the
> extra water and ELT. I do not have any of it on my parachute, because I
> think the likelihood of bailing out is very small, and because I can't
> recall any glider pilot that bailed out that needed survival gear. Does
> anyone know of any instance a glider pilot that parachuted from his
> glider, and then needed survival gear of any type that he couldn't recover
> from the glider?
>
> I realize the possibility is there, but it just seems remote. I'm not
> suggesting a pilot shouldn't prepare for the possibility, since it seems
> unlikely to cause any problems, as least as long as Jack's warnings are
> heeded.
>

Eric,

http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Stories/Bailout.htm
This could have happened in the mountainous terrain where we fly.

Maybe it is time for me to assemble a survival vest.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/

[nate_fl]

IMHO, a leg pocket is an ideal place to stash a bailout kit. I
frequently wear six pocket shorts with one in the leg pocket.

What to carry has been well documented, obviously it has to fit in a
smaller space.

A couple of side notes:

It may have been mentioned before, but a CD-rom makes a perfect signal
mirror, and comes with its own aiming device.

I saw a show the other night where a guy started a fire using 2 "D"
cell batteries and some fine steel wool (about 8" worth). You should
be able to do the same with any battery system.

As always, YMMV.

[Ramy]

This just happened: http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3913
Sad news.I wonder if they were not using Flarm.

Ramy


On Apr 24, 9:07 pm, "Wayne Paul" > wrote:
> "Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
>
> news:E6AXh.4487$Rd.722@trndny08...
>
>
>
> > I carry about 4 pounds of emergency gear in the glider, not counting the
> > extra water and ELT. I do not have any of it on my parachute, because I
> > think the likelihood of bailing out is very small, and because I can't
> > recall any glider pilot that bailed out that needed survival gear. Does
> > anyone know of any instance a glider pilot that parachuted from his
> > glider, and then needed survival gear of any type that he couldn't recover
> > from the glider?
>
> > I realize the possibility is there, but it just seems remote. I'm not
> > suggesting a pilot shouldn't prepare for the possibility, since it seems
> > unlikely to cause any problems, as least as long as Jack's warnings are
> > heeded.
>
> Eric,
>
> http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Stories/Bailout.htm
> This could have happened in the mountainous terrain where we fly.
>
> Maybe it is time for me to assemble a survival vest.
>
> Wayne
> HP-14 "6F"http://www.soaridaho.com/

[bumper]

"nate_fl" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I saw a show the other night where a guy started a fire using 2 "D"
> cell batteries and some fine steel wool (about 8" worth). You should
> be able to do the same with any battery system.
>
> As always, YMMV.
>

A 9-volt battery works well for this and obviously can ignite a smaller
clump of steel wool. As Nate mentioned, the steel wool should be fine. Steel
wool burns quite hot, so be careful if you play, er, test this.

bumper

[kirk.stant]

Fire? Remember, we are talking about surviving, not camping out. If
you fly in cold climates/wx, you are probably dressed warm enough for
the ground environment (and you have your chute to wrap up in).

My worse case scenario is bailing out and glider impacts on other side
of a ridge, etc. I have a signal mirror (military type - sorry, but a
CD is NOT a good substiture for a signal mirror for several reasons I
can think of - size, strength, visibility, etc) and a mini first aid
kit in small pouches on my chute harness (rigger added them). I also
have a pouch for my cell phone (which I really should tie to the chute
- don't think the velcro pouch will stay on during a violent bailout).

Obviously, if you stay with the glider, you have more comm and nav
gear to work with, and can sleep in the cockpit if necessary. Water
and a book would be nice. Food I consider a luxury, don't want it
sitting in my plane for months.

I think the best thing to have would be a 406 PLB attached to your
chute harness. Eliminates the need for a handheld radio and GPS, and
a lot smaller/lighter. I see a birthday present coming up...

Keep it simple, plan for worse case, make sure it works.

Kirk
66

[John Scott]

After reading this thread, I decided to add a signal mirror to my survival
kit. I went to my local Military Surplus shop. They had 3 sizes - small,
medium, large. I jchoose a medium for $9.

John Scott

[nate_fl]

On Apr 26, 4:08 pm, "John Scott" > wrote:
> After reading this thread, I decided to add a signal mirror to my survival
> kit. I went to my local Military Surplus shop. They had 3 sizes - small,
> medium, large. I jchoose a medium for $9.
>
> John Scott

Me too. I suggested the CD based on several conversations I had with
folks at an FAA seminar where the subject was forced landing survival.
Intuitively it seems to be a good idea, but of course something that
is designed to do a job will do it better than an improvised tool.

I will hang on to my steel wool. The dark scares me.

[jcarlyle]

I found this to be a most informative thread - thanks to all of the
contributors for their ideas and motivation!

I wanted commercial products, not a do it yourself solution (too much
trouble and expense to assemble kits from individual pieces, in my
opinion). I followed Jack's advice, and found the site http://www.equipped.com/
to be very informative. After reading lots and lots of pages there, I
settled on the following:

1. ACR MicroFix 406MHz PLB - $650; 10 oz
2. Doug Ritter Mini-RSKMk1 knife - $107; 2.5 oz
3. Lansky Quick Fix Pocket Knife Sharpener - $5; 0.25 oz
4. Doug Ritter Photon Freedom Micro Light - $20; 0.25 oz
5. AMK Heatsheets Emergency Bivvy - $15; 3.8 oz
6. AMK Pocket Survival Pak (Doug Ritter) - $28; 3.9 oz
7. AMK Ultralight 0.5 Medical Kit - $17; 4 oz
8. AOPA Core Leatherman - $80; 11 oz

Together, these items pretty much encompass the recommendations made
previously by John and Darryl at the beginning of the thread. The
first 6 items were obtained from https://www.aeromedix.com/, while
Item 7 came from http://tinyurl.com/32f24z (Amazon), and item 8 came
from http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/.

I think I'll stow items 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 in my pockets (they only
weigh 21 oz, and shouldn't impede exit), while items 5 and 8 will be
in the plane along with my cell phone, wallet, water, food and a book.
Thus if I have to bail out, I'll have the means on me to contact
rescue, treat wounds, signal, stay warm and survive. If I land out in
the boonies I'll have more communication options (phone, ELT, VHF),
can stay warmer in the cockpit, and will have provisions and tools.

-John

[jcarlyle]

I found this to be a most informative thread - thanks to all of the
contributors for their ideas and motivation!

I wanted commercial products, not a do it yourself solution (too much
trouble and expense to assemble kits from individual pieces, in my
opinion). I followed Jack's advice, and found the site http://www.equipped.com/
to be very informative. After reading lots and lots of pages there, I
settled on the following:

1. ACR MicroFix 406MHz PLB - $650; 10 oz
2. Doug Ritter Mini-RSKMk1 knife - $107; 2.5 oz
3. Lansky Quick Fix Pocket Knife Sharpener - $5; 0.25 oz
4. Doug Ritter Photon Freedom Micro Light - $20; 0.25 oz
5. AMK Heatsheets Emergency Bivvy - $15; 3.8 oz
6. AMK Pocket Survival Pak (Doug Ritter) - $28; 3.9 oz
7. AMK Ultralight 0.5 Medical Kit - $17; 4 oz
8. AOPA Core Leatherman - $80; 11 oz

Together, these items pretty much encompass the recommendations made
previously by John and Darryl at the beginning of the thread. The
first 6 items were obtained from https://www.aeromedix.com/, while
Item 7 came from http://tinyurl.com/32f24z (Amazon), and item 8 came
from http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/.

I think I'll stow items 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 in my pockets (they only
weigh 21 oz, and shouldn't impede exit), while items 5 and 8 will be
in the plane along with my cell phone, wallet, water, food and a book.
Thus if I have to bail out, I'll have the means on me to contact
rescue, treat wounds, signal, stay warm and survive. If I land out in
the boonies I'll have more communication options (phone, ELT, VHF),
can stay warmer in the cockpit, and will have provisions and tools.

-John

[ContestID67]

I searched around for some type of small survival book which could be
added to my kit without adding much bulk. I think that I have found
it;

According to http://www.equipped.org/books.htm the "Pocket Guide to
Outdoor Survival" is the
"...best fully waterproof manual in print...".

This book is very small, only 4-1/2" x 3-1/2" (11.5cm x 9.5cm), which
will fit nicely in your emergency kit. There is also a companion book
Pocket Guide to Emergency First Aid.

I found them both at Amazon.com for $12.95 each.
http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Guide-Outdoor-Survival-Cordes/dp/1931676089/ref=sr_1_1/104-0405408-2075928?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178214190&sr=8-1