Trailer tow vehicle fuel pumps

[Bill Daniels]

As there seems to be a lot of interest in X/C, landouts and retrieves,
possibly from remote areas, let me bring up a problem area - crappy electric
fuel pumps.
Most vehicles these days are fuel injected with an electric fuel pump in the
tank. These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of friends and
acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within ~50K miles and
each 50K thereafter. Failure will always occur without warning and in the
worst possible place and at the worst possible time.

According to my last tow truck driver, these crappy pumps provide him with a
nice business - he estimates 50% of his tows are failed pumps. The more
expensive the car, the more likely he is to tow it. The tow truck won't
tow your glider - just the car. This probably means leaving the trailer on
the roadside until you can come back for it. Not good.

A pump failure will cause instant engine stoppage and loss of power brakes
and steering. This means wrestling the car and glider trailer to the
roadside. Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a tow
truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas tank
can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.

One popular solution among off-roaders is to replace the in-tank pump with
an external, in-line pump that CAN be replaced on the roadside. In fact,
I'm considering two pumps in parallel with check valves and an A/B switch in
the cab. I could then just flip the switch and be on my way. I'd replace
the failed pump at my convenience.

The downside of in-line pumps is they are noisy - at least they can be heard
operating in an otherwise quiet vehicle. Some soundproofing around the pump
can take care of this.



Bill Daniels

[Ray Lovinggood]

Bill,

One way to 'solve' the noisy fuel pump is to drive
a diesel pickup truck. Damn diesel engines are so
noisy, even at idle, they can drown out the sound of
a few extra fuel pumps, sirens, air horns, bickering
neighbors, howling dogs and screaming babies...

(I'm talking Ford, Chevy, Dodge (Cummins) diesels.
The Mercedes and Volkswagon diesels available in America
are quite civilized.)

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA



At 02:42 03 March 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:
> As there seems to be a lot of interest in X/C, landouts
>and retrieves,
>possibly from remote areas, let me bring up a problem
>area - crappy electric
>fuel pumps.
>Most vehicles these days are fuel injected with an
>electric fuel pump in the
>tank. These electric pumps, according to an informal
>survey of friends and
>acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually
>within ~50K miles and
>each 50K thereafter. Failure will always occur without
>warning and in the
>worst possible place and at the worst possible time.
>
>According to my last tow truck driver, these crappy
>pumps provide him with a
>nice business - he estimates 50% of his tows are failed
>pumps. The more
>expensive the car, the more likely he is to tow it.
> The tow truck won't
>tow your glider - just the car. This probably means
>leaving the trailer on
>the roadside until you can come back for it. Not good.
>
>A pump failure will cause instant engine stoppage and
>loss of power brakes
>and steering. This means wrestling the car and glider
>trailer to the
>roadside. Once you are on the roadside, you will find
>that no matter how
>good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you
>can do but call a tow
>truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist
>where the gas tank
>can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
>
>One popular solution among off-roaders is to replace
>the in-tank pump with
>an external, in-line pump that CAN be replaced on the
>roadside. In fact,
>I'm considering two pumps in parallel with check valves
>and an A/B switch in
>the cab. I could then just flip the switch and be
>on my way. I'd replace
>the failed pump at my convenience.
>
>The downside of in-line pumps is they are noisy - at
>least they can be heard
>operating in an otherwise quiet vehicle. Some soundproofing
>around the pump
>can take care of this.
>
>
>
>Bill Daniels
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Bob Kuykendall]

> These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of friends and
> acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within ~50K miles and
> each 50K thereafter.

That's counter to my personal experience. I've done four fuel pumps
for my Volvo tow vehicles; none of them let go prior to the 200,000
mile mark. All of the replacements outlasted the vehicles.

> Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
> good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a tow
> truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas tank
> can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.

Disagree:

A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.

B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
far have required dropping the tank.

C) For many cars with Bosch K-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic, and similar
systems, there are actually two pumps: an in-tank centrifugal pump and
an external constant-displacement pump. The in-tank pump just delivers
fuel to the main pump, and is critical only at 1/4 tank fuel level and
below. The usual sign of a failed or failing in-tank pump is poor
running below 1/4 tank, and whining noises from the main pump.

D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
frame meets the circuit board.

[BT]

I have never had to replace a fuel pump... "knocking on the gas can"...
and I hope I never do.

BT

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
> As there seems to be a lot of interest in X/C, landouts and retrieves,
> possibly from remote areas, let me bring up a problem area - crappy
> electric fuel pumps.
> Most vehicles these days are fuel injected with an electric fuel pump in
> the tank. These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of
> friends and acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within
> ~50K miles and each 50K thereafter. Failure will always occur without
> warning and in the worst possible place and at the worst possible time.
>
> According to my last tow truck driver, these crappy pumps provide him with
> a nice business - he estimates 50% of his tows are failed pumps. The more
> expensive the car, the more likely he is to tow it. The tow truck won't
> tow your glider - just the car. This probably means leaving the trailer
> on the roadside until you can come back for it. Not good.
>
> A pump failure will cause instant engine stoppage and loss of power brakes
> and steering. This means wrestling the car and glider trailer to the
> roadside. Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
> good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a tow
> truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas tank
> can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
>
> One popular solution among off-roaders is to replace the in-tank pump with
> an external, in-line pump that CAN be replaced on the roadside. In fact,
> I'm considering two pumps in parallel with check valves and an A/B switch
> in the cab. I could then just flip the switch and be on my way. I'd
> replace the failed pump at my convenience.
>
> The downside of in-line pumps is they are noisy - at least they can be
> heard operating in an otherwise quiet vehicle. Some soundproofing around
> the pump can take care of this.
>
>
>
> Bill Daniels
>
>
>
>
>

[Berry]

In article . com>,
"Bob Kuykendall" > wrote:

> > These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of friends and
> > acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within ~50K miles and
> > each 50K thereafter.
>
> That's counter to my personal experience. I've done four fuel pumps
> for my Volvo tow vehicles; none of them let go prior to the 200,000
> mile mark. All of the replacements outlasted the vehicles.
>
> > Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
> > good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a tow
> > truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas tank
> > can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
>
> Disagree:
>
> A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.
>
> B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
> access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
> far have required dropping the tank.
>
> C) For many cars with Bosch K-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic, and similar
> systems, there are actually two pumps: an in-tank centrifugal pump and
> an external constant-displacement pump. The in-tank pump just delivers
> fuel to the main pump, and is critical only at 1/4 tank fuel level and
> below. The usual sign of a failed or failing in-tank pump is poor
> running below 1/4 tank, and whining noises from the main pump.
>
> D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
> than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
> open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
> frame meets the circuit board.

My tow vehicle is a '92 Dodge full size hightop van, 6 cylinder. It only
has one fuel pump and it's in the tank. No access to it from on top. The
tank has to be dropped. The fuel pump failed at 140k miles - exactly at
the halfway point of a 350 mile trip - on Thanksgiving day.

Nearly every system on this van has had a failure. I think I've replaced
everything but the engine block and one of the hubcaps. I really enjoy
the hightop room, but this thing is a piece of crap. Glad I didn't pay
much for it. Oh, and take a look at the repair manual for these things.
Dodge full size vans had essentially no mechanical changes from 1977
through at least 2001. So much for innovation and improvement. If Toyota
ever makes a full size van, I'm gettin' one.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 3, 12:58 am, Berry > wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "Bob Kuykendall" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > > These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of friends and
> > > acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within ~50K miles and
> > > each 50K thereafter.
>
> > That's counter to my personal experience. I've done four fuel pumps
> > for my Volvo tow vehicles; none of them let go prior to the 200,000
> > mile mark. All of the replacements outlasted the vehicles.
>
> > > Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
> > > good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a tow
> > > truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas tank
> > > can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
>
> > Disagree:
>
> > A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.
>
> > B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
> > access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
> > far have required dropping the tank.
>
> > C) For many cars with Bosch K-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic, and similar
> > systems, there are actually two pumps: an in-tank centrifugal pump and
> > an external constant-displacement pump. The in-tank pump just delivers
> > fuel to the main pump, and is critical only at 1/4 tank fuel level and
> > below. The usual sign of a failed or failing in-tank pump is poor
> > running below 1/4 tank, and whining noises from the main pump.
>
> > D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
> > than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
> > open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
> > frame meets the circuit board.
>
> My tow vehicle is a '92 Dodge full size hightop van, 6 cylinder. It only
> has one fuel pump and it's in the tank. No access to it from on top. The
> tank has to be dropped. The fuel pump failed at 140k miles - exactly at
> the halfway point of a 350 mile trip - on Thanksgiving day.
>
> Nearly every system on this van has had a failure. I think I've replaced
> everything but the engine block and one of the hubcaps. I really enjoy
> the hightop room, but this thing is a piece of crap. Glad I didn't pay
> much for it. Oh, and take a look at the repair manual for these things.
> Dodge full size vans had essentially no mechanical changes from 1977
> through at least 2001. So much for innovation and improvement. If Toyota
> ever makes a full size van, I'm gettin' one.

Bill,
why the sudden concern about landing out? and finding any reason
possible to avoid it at all costs? Mechanical breakdowns are a
possibility no matter what we drive (or fly). Its something we may
have to deal with and a risk we take.

[[email protected]]

wrote:

> why the sudden concern about landing out? and finding any reason
> possible to avoid it at all costs? Mechanical breakdowns are a
> possibility no matter what we drive (or fly). Its something we may
> have to deal with and a risk we take.

Aren't you flying something that resembles more a hollowed-out log
than a mechanical device? ;)

It's almost flyin' time again, and we are just getting antsy, that's
all. There's almost nothing else left to think about now, except
trailer and tow-car breakdowns, parachute water landings, and of
course the Cherry-Patch.


Jack

[[email protected]]

> Aren't you flying something that resembles more a hollowed-out log
> than a mechanical device? ;)


HA. Only when Im in my glider. That other 2 or 300 hours I get in
the air every year is behind a stinky loud engine. Sometimes 2!

[Bill Daniels]

Bob, I don't know the make/model list for those that do or don't have
access hatches on the rear load floor. Unfortunately, the ones I have
encountered don't have them. However, removing the pump /fuel level sender
from a partially filled gas tank isn't for the faint of heart - especially
if you worry about things like sparks.

Again, so far, none have been relays or fuses - those things being checked
first since they are easy. It's always been the pump itself. They're just
plastic crap that couldn't possibly last the life of the vehicle.

The entire canister containing the pump and sending unit has to be replaced
at a parts cost of around $400 and $400 labor. The shop will take at least
a day to do the job. If you have to have this done, take it to a dealer and
get a warranty on the work. Daimler/Chysler has paid for 4 of my pumps.
Even though they were replaced at no charge, I've replaced mine with a heavy
duty off-road racing unit that I can easilly change on the roadside in about
ten minutes

Bill


"Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>> These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of friends and
>> acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within ~50K miles
>> and
>> each 50K thereafter.
>
> That's counter to my personal experience. I've done four fuel pumps
> for my Volvo tow vehicles; none of them let go prior to the 200,000
> mile mark. All of the replacements outlasted the vehicles.
>
>> Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
>> good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a
>> tow
>> truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas tank
>> can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
>
> Disagree:
>
> A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.
>
> B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
> access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
> far have required dropping the tank.
>
> C) For many cars with Bosch K-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic, and similar
> systems, there are actually two pumps: an in-tank centrifugal pump and
> an external constant-displacement pump. The in-tank pump just delivers
> fuel to the main pump, and is critical only at 1/4 tank fuel level and
> below. The usual sign of a failed or failing in-tank pump is poor
> running below 1/4 tank, and whining noises from the main pump.
>
> D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
> than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
> open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
> frame meets the circuit board.
>
>
>
>
>

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
<...>
> Most vehicles these days are fuel injected with an electric fuel pump in
> the tank. These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of
> friends and acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within
> ~50K miles and each 50K thereafter. Failure will always occur without
> warning and in the worst possible place and at the worst possible time.
>
<...> Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
> good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a tow
> truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas tank
> can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
<...>

I've only replaced one - one of my Villagers started to get noisy at about
130K so I replaced it "just in case". I did have to drop the tank but it
isn't that hard with a jack and jackstands...
My '97 with 120K is still fine, and my '90 Ranger still has the original
pump at 130K but I did have to pull the tank to fix a leak in the fill hose.
Of course, I wouldn't be able to replace one on the side of the road with
just what I carry with me (which doesn't include a pump). Timing belts fall
in the same catagory.

I don't know what kind of cars you and your friends are driving, but you
might want to consider switching to Fords - I've never had one with less
than 100K leave me at the side of the road.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Bob Whelan]

Bob Kuykendall wrote:


<Electric Fuel Pump failure grumbling schtuff snipped...>
>
> A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.
True enough, but Mr. Time usually has his say! (This from a
self-described reasonably resourceful and motivated sort [aka 'cheap
*******'].)
- - - - - -

>
> B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
> access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
> far have required dropping the tank.
You haven't done a 1987 Ford Mustang LX, then...or lots of other Fords
which don't have as one of Ford's better ideas (remember that ad
campaign?) thru-trunk gastank/in-tank-fuel-pump access. One of many
battles accountants and/or bad management won over engineering. Or
(bowing to Occam) maybe simply bad engineering...

As an engineer and original owner of a (still running and
retired-to-[glider/utility/critter]-towing) 1972 Ford Maverick with
bolt-on mechanical fuel pump, I feel qualified expressing contemptuous
opinions on this particular topic!
- - - - - -

> D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
> than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
> open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
> frame meets the circuit board.

That hasn't been my experience, but (thankfully) my data sample can
still be counted on one hand. My solution has been to buy replacement
pumps from Autozone (kids, keep your receipts!) - they come with a
lifetime warranty (as do their gas struts). Clearly these fine folks
don't know who they're dealing with!

Bob - feeling ornery today - W.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 2, 6:51 pm, Ray Lovinggood
> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> One way to 'solve' the noisy fuel pump is to drive
> a diesel pickup truck. Damn diesel engines are so
> noisy, even at idle, they can drown out the sound of
> a few extra fuel pumps, sirens, air horns, bickering
> neighbors, howling dogs and screaming babies...
>
> (I'm talking Ford, Chevy, Dodge (Cummins) diesels.
> The Mercedes and Volkswagon diesels available in America
> are quite civilized.)
>
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Actually Ray,

The new diesel pickup engines are required to meet EPA noise and
emmission standards and you'll find new Dodge Cummins are very quiet.
If you hear one, you will be surprised. I suspect the Ford and
Chevy's are as well because everyone has to meet the new (2005) fed
regs. The Dodge lift pumps on 2nd gen. Cummins powered trucks are
known to fail around 30k miles, with some on the 3rd gen as well, but
hey, that's life. I've had two Dodge Cummins pickups in the past 4
years, never had anything fail, ever, on either vehicle, same with my
two Volvo station wagons. Buy quality and it pays in the long run.

Jim

[Graeme Cant]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> Daimler/Chysler has paid for 4 of my pumps.
> Even though they were replaced at no charge, I've replaced mine with a heavy
> duty off-road racing unit that I can easily change on the roadside in about
> ten minutes

Oh, oh! I may have to pay attention here.

Daimler-Chrysler have paid for two sender units for me. Sounds like I
may have got two new pumps as well.

What were they in, Bill? ...and what's your replacement unit?

GC

> Bill
>
>
> "Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>> These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of friends and
>>> acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within ~50K miles
>>> and
>>> each 50K thereafter.
>> That's counter to my personal experience. I've done four fuel pumps
>> for my Volvo tow vehicles; none of them let go prior to the 200,000
>> mile mark. All of the replacements outlasted the vehicles.
>>
>>> Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
>>> good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a
>>> tow
>>> truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas tank
>>> can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
>> Disagree:
>>
>> A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.
>>
>> B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
>> access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
>> far have required dropping the tank.
>>
>> C) For many cars with Bosch K-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic, and similar
>> systems, there are actually two pumps: an in-tank centrifugal pump and
>> an external constant-displacement pump. The in-tank pump just delivers
>> fuel to the main pump, and is critical only at 1/4 tank fuel level and
>> below. The usual sign of a failed or failing in-tank pump is poor
>> running below 1/4 tank, and whining noises from the main pump.
>>
>> D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
>> than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
>> open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
>> frame meets the circuit board.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Michael McNulty[_2_]]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 2, 6:51 pm, Ray Lovinggood
> > wrote:
>> Bill,
>>
>> One way to 'solve' the noisy fuel pump is to drive
>> a diesel pickup truck. Damn diesel engines are so
>> noisy, even at idle, they can drown out the sound of
>> a few extra fuel pumps, sirens, air horns, bickering
>> neighbors, howling dogs and screaming babies...
>>
>> (I'm talking Ford, Chevy, Dodge (Cummins) diesels.
>> The Mercedes and Volkswagon diesels available in America
>> are quite civilized.)
>>
>> Ray Lovinggood
>> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>
> Actually Ray,
>
> The new diesel pickup engines are required to meet EPA noise and
> emmission standards and you'll find new Dodge Cummins are very quiet.
> If you hear one, you will be surprised. I suspect the Ford and
> Chevy's are as well because everyone has to meet the new (2005) fed
> regs. The Dodge lift pumps on 2nd gen. Cummins powered trucks are
> known to fail around 30k miles, with some on the 3rd gen as well, but
> hey, that's life. I've had two Dodge Cummins pickups in the past 4
> years, never had anything fail, ever, on either vehicle, same with my
> two Volvo station wagons. Buy quality and it pays in the long run.
>
> Jim
>
>
Two vehicles in four years would not seem qualify one to assess "the long
run".

[Bill Daniels]

A Jeep Grand Cherokee. However, I've heard of a number of other makes with
the same problem - for example, BMW's. Believe me, a dead fuel pump raises
"PITA" to a whole new level.

It is especially galling to me that a vehicle like a Jeep which is more than
capable of getting you deep into the back country can strand you there with
a dead fuel pump. Needless to say, Jeep entheusiasts have given D-C hell
about this. Unfortunately, I can't say for sure is has had any effect.

Jeepers are still modifying their vehicles with aftermarket pumps. My
replacement is a MSD in-line, Jegs catalog number 121-2225 which is noiser
than I would like. There are other pumps advertized as "quiet" but I can't
say how quiet. Mounting the pump in rubber helps a lot.

A fuel pump is a critical component with no backup or "limp-home"
capability. They should be as bullet proof as anything else in the vehicle.
Especially so if the pump can't be repaired by a knowledable owner on the
roadside.

Carburated engines can be jury-rigged to run after a fashion with a one
gallon fuel can on the roof gravity feeding fuel to the carburator. With
fuel injection needing 45 psi or more, you're SOL.

As for Ford reliability, my mechanic says the old saw 'Fix Or Repair Daily'
isn't true. He says FORD is really DROF spelled backwards which stands for
"Driver Returns On Foot".

Bill Daniels


"Graeme Cant" <gcantinter@tnodedotnet> wrote in message
...
> Bill Daniels wrote:
>> Daimler/Chysler has paid for 4 of my pumps. Even though they were
>> replaced at no charge, I've replaced mine with a heavy duty off-road
>> racing unit that I can easily change on the roadside in about ten minutes
>
> Oh, oh! I may have to pay attention here.
>
> Daimler-Chrysler have paid for two sender units for me. Sounds like I may
> have got two new pumps as well.
>
> What were they in, Bill? ...and what's your replacement unit?
>
> GC
>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> "Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>>> These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of friends and
>>>> acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within ~50K miles
>>>> and
>>>> each 50K thereafter.
>>> That's counter to my personal experience. I've done four fuel pumps
>>> for my Volvo tow vehicles; none of them let go prior to the 200,000
>>> mile mark. All of the replacements outlasted the vehicles.
>>>
>>>> Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
>>>> good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a
>>>> tow
>>>> truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas
>>>> tank
>>>> can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
>>> Disagree:
>>>
>>> A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.
>>>
>>> B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
>>> access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
>>> far have required dropping the tank.
>>>
>>> C) For many cars with Bosch K-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic, and similar
>>> systems, there are actually two pumps: an in-tank centrifugal pump and
>>> an external constant-displacement pump. The in-tank pump just delivers
>>> fuel to the main pump, and is critical only at 1/4 tank fuel level and
>>> below. The usual sign of a failed or failing in-tank pump is poor
>>> running below 1/4 tank, and whining noises from the main pump.
>>>
>>> D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
>>> than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
>>> open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
>>> frame meets the circuit board.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

[[email protected]]

On Mar 4, 5:40 am, "Michael McNulty" >
wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > On Mar 2, 6:51 pm, Ray Lovinggood
> > > wrote:
> >> Bill,
>
> >> One way to 'solve' the noisy fuel pump is to drive
> >> a diesel pickup truck. Damn diesel engines are so
> >> noisy, even at idle, they can drown out the sound of
> >> a few extra fuel pumps, sirens, air horns, bickering
> >> neighbors, howling dogs and screaming babies...
>
> >> (I'm talking Ford, Chevy, Dodge (Cummins) diesels.
> >> The Mercedes and Volkswagon diesels available in America
> >> are quite civilized.)
>
> >> Ray Lovinggood
> >> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>
> > Actually Ray,
>
> > The new diesel pickup engines are required to meet EPA noise and
> > emmission standards and you'll find new Dodge Cummins are very quiet.
> > If you hear one, you will be surprised. I suspect the Ford and
> > Chevy's are as well because everyone has to meet the new (2005) fed
> > regs. The Dodge lift pumps on 2nd gen. Cummins powered trucks are
> > known to fail around 30k miles, with some on the 3rd gen as well, but
> > hey, that's life. I've had two Dodge Cummins pickups in the past 4
> > years, never had anything fail, ever, on either vehicle, same with my
> > two Volvo station wagons. Buy quality and it pays in the long run.
>
> > Jim
>
> Two vehicles in four years would not seem qualify one to assess "the long
> run".


I trade them in when the tires wear down, hate to buy a full set of
tires for a dually! The Volvos I keep, last one was 8 years. I suppose
results may vary.

Jim