Multiple control towers?

[NVArt]

I recently had occasion to pass through DFW on American. How many
control towers does that airport have? What do they all do? I was
looking out the window like a kid. I think we passed a "35C". Sure is
a GIANT airport to a 172 driver. Was into McCarren once; it was
child's play compared to what DFW looks like.

[Jay B]

On Mar 16, 2:19 pm, "NVArt" > wrote:
> I recently had occasion to pass through DFW on American. How many
> control towers does that airport have? What do they all do? I was
> looking out the window like a kid. I think we passed a "35C". Sure is
> a GIANT airport to a 172 driver. Was into McCarren once; it was
> child's play compared to what DFW looks like.

There should be only one Air Traffic Control tower, but there can be
multiple airline ramp control locations where keep tabs on baggage
trains, maintenance vehicles, etc...

Jay B

[Hamish Reid]

In article . com>,
"NVArt" > wrote:

> I recently had occasion to pass through DFW on American. How many
> control towers does that airport have? What do they all do? I was
> looking out the window like a kid. I think we passed a "35C". Sure is
> a GIANT airport to a 172 driver. Was into McCarren once; it was
> child's play compared to what DFW looks like.
>

My home field, Oakland (KOAK), is quite a bit smaller than DFW but it
has two completely separate towers...

Hamish

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Jay B wrote:
> On Mar 16, 2:19 pm, "NVArt" > wrote:
>> I recently had occasion to pass through DFW on American. How many
>> control towers does that airport have? What do they all do? I was
>> looking out the window like a kid. I think we passed a "35C". Sure is
>> a GIANT airport to a 172 driver. Was into McCarren once; it was
>> child's play compared to what DFW looks like.
>
> There should be only one Air Traffic Control tower, but there can be
> multiple airline ramp control locations where keep tabs on baggage
> trains, maintenance vehicles, etc...
>
> Jay B

There is an East, a Central and a West control tower shown on the airport
diagram. How they coordinate I haven't a clue.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0703/06039AD.PDF

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:32:49 -0700, Hamish Reid
> wrote:

>
>My home field, Oakland (KOAK), is quite a bit smaller than DFW but it
>has two completely separate towers...

Interesting...

Do you know why? Is there a terrain feature that prevents one tower
from seeing the whole field? Are the towers short?

Some very large Bravo airports here in the east only have one tower,
as the only folks who need to be in the cab are the controllers who
need to physically see the field. Everyone else (approach / departure
/ enroute, FSS, etc...) can be in the basement or even a different
building.

[Bob Gardner]

There are three at DFW.

Bob Gardner

"NVArt" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I recently had occasion to pass through DFW on American. How many
> control towers does that airport have? What do they all do? I was
> looking out the window like a kid. I think we passed a "35C". Sure is
> a GIANT airport to a 172 driver. Was into McCarren once; it was
> child's play compared to what DFW looks like.
>

[Hamish Reid]

In article >,
B A R R Y > wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:32:49 -0700, Hamish Reid
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >My home field, Oakland (KOAK), is quite a bit smaller than DFW but it
> >has two completely separate towers...
>
> Interesting...
>
> Do you know why? Is there a terrain feature that prevents one tower
> from seeing the whole field? Are the towers short?

Both towers are classic old 1960's things, and neither of them's
particularly short. And the airport's as flat as a pancake (and slightly
below sea level in many places).

It seems to be mostly history -- Oakland is basically two airports,
North Field and South Field, that are operationally and physically
linked, but have separate towers and quite separate concerns. North
Field (Runways 28R, 28L, 33, etc.) was there first (1920's), and
nowadays concentrates on GA and smaller freight; South Field (Runway
29/11) is the newer part built specifically for airlines and larger
freight operations in the 1960's, which seems to be when both towers
were built. Of course you occasionally see larger airline and freight
aircraft landing on North Field when necessary, and smaller GA aircraft
on South Field (especially for noise abatement reasons). After about
10pm, South Field tower takes over North Field operations as well. Yes,
there are some visibility issues, but nothing that would mandate two
separate towers as far as I can see (certainly South Field tower has few
problems handling me on North Field whenever I'm there late...).

>
> Some very large Bravo airports here in the east only have one tower,
> as the only folks who need to be in the cab are the controllers who
> need to physically see the field. Everyone else (approach / departure
> / enroute, FSS, etc...) can be in the basement or even a different
> building.

Oakland's departure and arrivals are handled by Northern California
(NorCal) Approach up in Sacramento. NorCal's precursor, Bay Approach,
used to be at Oakland on the North Field....

Hamish

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:32:37 -0700, Hamish Reid
> wrote:


Thanks for the info!

[A Guy Called Tyketto]

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NVArt > wrote:
> I recently had occasion to pass through DFW on American. How many
> control towers does that airport have? What do they all do? I was
> looking out the window like a kid. I think we passed a "35C". Sure is
> a GIANT airport to a 172 driver. Was into McCarren once; it was
> child's play compared to what DFW looks like.

DFW has 3 separate towers, as others have mentioned. Not just
different frequencies, but different independent functioning towers.
The LiveATC feed for it has been down for a while, but in my time
listening to it and flying through there, I remember the West Tower
controlling 13R/31L and the 18s/36s, while the East Tower controlled
13L/31R and the 17s/35s. That would leave the central tower for Ground
and Ramp control in the terminal areas.

You're right. McCarran is nothing compared to there. KLAS has 2
separate Ramp Towers and the one ATC tower with split frequencies
there, but it is still one tower for runway ops. This is a different
bear altogether.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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[Jim[_14_]]

On 16 Mar 2007 14:19:22 -0700, "NVArt" >
wrote:

>I recently had occasion to pass through DFW on American. How many
>control towers does that airport have? What do they all do? I was
>looking out the window like a kid. I think we passed a "35C". Sure is
>a GIANT airport to a 172 driver. Was into McCarren once; it was
>child's play compared to what DFW looks like.
Possibly one of the towers was dedicated to ground, this is not
unheard of, IIRC LAX has a dedicated ground control tower. Could also
be an old tower. Hobby airport in Houston has 3 towers, the first
tower has been turned into a museum, the old tower is vacant ( may be
used for training) and the new (about 1.5 years old) state of the art
tower. Google DFW tower and i'll bet you get some hits that will
answer your questions.
--

Jim in Houston

Nurse's creed: Fill what's empty, empty what's full,
and scratch where it itches!! RN does NOT mean Real Nerd!

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Jim[_14_]]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:44:35 -0400, B A R R Y
> wrote:

>On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:32:49 -0700, Hamish Reid
> wrote:
>
>>
>>My home field, Oakland (KOAK), is quite a bit smaller than DFW but it
>>has two completely separate towers...
>
>Interesting...
>
>Do you know why? Is there a terrain feature that prevents one tower
>from seeing the whole field? Are the towers short?
>
>Some very large Bravo airports here in the east only have one tower,
>as the only folks who need to be in the cab are the controllers who
>need to physically see the field. Everyone else (approach / departure
>/ enroute, FSS, etc...) can be in the basement or even a different
>building.
At Beaumont (Jefferson County) airport Beaumont approach and departure
are in the tower but not in the Cab (the glass enclosure for the
airport controller) The approach and departure controller sit in a
windowless room on the second floor of the tower.
--

Jim in Houston

Nurse's creed: Fill what's empty, empty what's full,
and scratch where it itches!! RN does NOT mean Real Nerd!

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Ron Natalie]

B A R R Y wrote:

> Some very large Bravo airports here in the east only have one tower,
> as the only folks who need to be in the cab are the controllers who
> need to physically see the field. Everyone else (approach / departure
> / enroute, FSS, etc...) can be in the basement or even a different
> building.

DFW is sprawling. Your options are to make the tower way tall, and
way big so you can fit all the controllers in it such that they can
see everything, or you can distribute things.

When Dulles's new 300+ foot tower becomes operational, it will have
three sets of local (tower) and ground controllers working in it as
well as clearance delivery and supervisory positions. That will
be in addition to the existing ramp tower which controls traffic
pretty much between the terminals and the one on the Udvar-Hazy
tower which serves no useful function other than being a great place
to watch arrivals (now if I could just get them to put real ATC
audio and maybe a live radar feed, the exhibit has a prerecorded
one from EWR of all places).

[Ron Natalie]

Jim wrote:

> At Beaumont (Jefferson County) airport Beaumont approach and departure
> are in the tower but not in the Cab (the glass enclosure for the
> airport controller) The approach and departure controller sit in a
> windowless room on the second floor of the tower.

At Dulles, the radar room for Dulles Approach was one floor down from
the cab (the strips just fall a short distance). At DCA, the new tower
had the radar room in the basement. The tube for the strips actually
fell 12 stories or whatever. Periodically you call the elevator and
find a bucket of strip holders in it that are being returned to the cab.

Now both approach controls along with the ones for BWI, ADW, and RIC
(none of which I've been in) are out at the fringe of the class B
at Vint Hill (Potomac Approach). I asked one of the controllers
how hard you have to throw the strips to jump the intervening 20
miles.

The new Dulles tower does have central VAC.

[B A R R Y]

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:17:24 -0400, Ron Natalie >
wrote:

>
>When Dulles's new 300+ foot tower becomes operational, it will have
>three sets of local (tower) and ground controllers working in it as
>well as clearance delivery and supervisory positions.

JFK lists the single tower as 338, and the ground is ~ 12 MSL, so that
tower will be similar.