Canals in Missouri?

[Jay Honeck]

On our flight from Memphis, TN to Iowa City, IA, today, we were
diverted around the Lindbergh MOA. This took us over the small town of
Kennett, MO, which brought us over a pretty amazing sight.

Just east of the Kennett Airport (KTKX) there is (what looks for all
the world like) a "freeway canal" -- with multiple lanes! It stretches
from horizon to horizon, with four "lanes" of canals, each with
elevated solid ground between them.

Here is a Google Map satellite image of the canals. (It's that
impossibly straight, multi-lane line on the right side of the
picture.)

http://tinyurl.com/yryfxc

>From our lofty perch at 7500 feet, we couldn't tell if the land
between "lanes" contained roads (for tractors to pull barges?) -- but
there was NO visible boat traffic. It appeared that only two of the
"lanes" were still dredged and navigable, but no one was using them
when we flew over.

I've done some searching around the internet, and can find nothing
about this remarkable engineering feat. This thing must've taken years
to build -- yet I've never heard anything about it. Was it really a
"two-way" highway for boats? Why would they go to all the work of
making multiple lane canals, rather than just one wide one?

Can any pilots from the Show-Me State shed any light on this?

Thanks!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Macklin]

US Army Corps of Engineers probably built it. My guess is
that it is for hauling grain and flood control. Ask them or
your Congressman.

Zoom out on the picture and you'll see that several canals
come together from different places from the north.


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| On our flight from Memphis, TN to Iowa City, IA, today, we
were
| diverted around the Lindbergh MOA. This took us over the
small town of
| Kennett, MO, which brought us over a pretty amazing sight.
|
| Just east of the Kennett Airport (KTKX) there is (what
looks for all
| the world like) a "freeway canal" -- with multiple lanes!
It stretches
| from horizon to horizon, with four "lanes" of canals, each
with
| elevated solid ground between them.
|
| Here is a Google Map satellite image of the canals. (It's
that
| impossibly straight, multi-lane line on the right side of
the
| picture.)
|
| http://tinyurl.com/yryfxc
|
| >From our lofty perch at 7500 feet, we couldn't tell if
the land
| between "lanes" contained roads (for tractors to pull
barges?) -- but
| there was NO visible boat traffic. It appeared that only
two of the
| "lanes" were still dredged and navigable, but no one was
using them
| when we flew over.
|
| I've done some searching around the internet, and can find
nothing
| about this remarkable engineering feat. This thing must've
taken years
| to build -- yet I've never heard anything about it. Was
it really a
| "two-way" highway for boats? Why would they go to all
the work of
| making multiple lane canals, rather than just one wide
one?
|
| Can any pilots from the Show-Me State shed any light on
this?
|
| Thanks!
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

[Blueskies]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message oups.com...
: On our flight from Memphis, TN to Iowa City, IA, today, we were
: diverted around the Lindbergh MOA. This took us over the small town of
: Kennett, MO, which brought us over a pretty amazing sight.
:

You 'were diverted' around an MOA? Don't you mean you decided to fly around it. There is no requirement to stay out of
MOAs...




: Just east of the Kennett Airport (KTKX) there is (what looks for all
: the world like) a "freeway canal" -- with multiple lanes! It stretches
: from horizon to horizon, with four "lanes" of canals, each with
: elevated solid ground between them.
:


Yes, as Jim said, these are pet projects for the Corps of Engineers. The straight runs avoid the twists and turns and
shallows of the mighty Missisippi that Mark Twain wrote about...

[Jay Honeck]

> You 'were diverted' around an MOA? Don't you mean you decided to fly around it. There is no requirement to stay out of
> MOAs...

True enough. However, approach strongly "suggested" a course of 360
to avoid the MOA, because it was "hot". I heard him working several
F-16s out of Springfield, IL, as well as a couple of unidentified
other fighters (F-15s?). They had the airspace to 50,000 feet, so I
wasn't gonna fly over it!

I didn't want to mess them up, nor did I want to see one up close --
so diverted we did.

> : Just east of the Kennett Airport (KTKX) there is (what looks for all
> : the world like) a "freeway canal" -- with multiple lanes! It stretches
> : from horizon to horizon, with four "lanes" of canals, each with
> : elevated solid ground between them.
>
> Yes, as Jim said, these are pet projects for the Corps of Engineers. The straight runs avoid the twists and turns and
> shallows of the mighty Missisippi that Mark Twain wrote about...

I've seen a lot of canals, but never one quite like that one.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Blueskies]

:
: I've seen a lot of canals, but never one quite like that one.
: --
: Jay Honeck
: Iowa City, IA
: Pathfinder N56993
: www.AlexisParkInn.com
: "Your Aviation Destination"
:

Hmmm, looks like my assumption about it being for navigation may be wrong. Looks like it was mostly for flood control
after the flood of '27.

http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es1308/es1308page06.cfm

[Jay Honeck]

> Google Little River Drainage District. They may look like canals, but they
> don't "connect" directly to a major river or waterway. They are drainage
> ditches.

Holy cow! "Drainage ditch" just doesn't seem to adequately describe
something that big... They look to be easily navigable.

Thanks for the info.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

Google Little River Drainage District. They may look like canals, but they
don't "connect" directly to a major river or waterway. They are drainage
ditches. The reason for multiple ditches laying parallel to one another is
simply to increase drainage capacity. The "canals" are used to drain what
is sometimes called the Missouri "glades". The water eventually flows into
the St. Francis river and exits into the Mississippi about 1/2 way down the
eastern Arkansas border at Helena, AR. Started in 1907, it became one of the
largest drainage projects in the world, draining over 1.2 million acres.
Jim

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

Next time you fly to OSH, take a look at the Horicon Marsh in WI. You can
still see the canals and the paths made through the marsh when they tried to
drain it between 1910 and 1914. Pretty incredible from the air.
Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > Google Little River Drainage District. They may look like canals, but
they
> > don't "connect" directly to a major river or waterway. They are
drainage
> > ditches.
>
> Holy cow! "Drainage ditch" just doesn't seem to adequately describe
> something that big... They look to be easily navigable.
>
> Thanks for the info.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Next time you fly to OSH, take a look at the Horicon Marsh in WI. You can
> still see the canals and the paths made through the marsh when they tried to
> drain it between 1910 and 1914. Pretty incredible from the air.

Interesting -- will do. The only time I've ever over-flown the marsh
was as a student, and I was too busy dodging snow showers to notice...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> On our flight from Memphis, TN to Iowa City, IA, today, we were
> diverted around the Lindbergh MOA.
>

Congratulations! When did you add the instrument rating?

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
t...
>
> You 'were diverted' around an MOA? Don't you mean you decided to fly
> around it.
> There is no requirement to stay out of MOAs...
>

There is if you're IFR.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> True enough. However, approach strongly "suggested" a course of 360
> to avoid the MOA, because it was "hot".
>

Choosing to follow a suggestion is not being diverted.


>
> I heard him working several F-16s out of Springfield, IL, as well as a
> couple of unidentified other fighters (F-15s?). They had the airspace to
> 50,000 feet, so I wasn't gonna fly over it!
>

Did you consider going under it?

MOAs don't go above 18,000 feet, although they often have a similarly shaped
ATCAA overlying them.

[Gene Seibel]

On Mar 16, 9:12 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
> Can any pilots from the Show-Me State shed any light on this?
>
> Thanks!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Kennett is one of my regular fuel stops. I had always assumed the
canals had something to do with irrigation. Lots of cotton grown
there. Rice a little farther south.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[karl gruber[_1_]]

Jay? IFR? .............................oxymoron


"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
>
> "Blueskies" > wrote in message
> t...
>>
>> You 'were diverted' around an MOA? Don't you mean you decided to fly
>> around it.
>> There is no requirement to stay out of MOAs...
>>
>
> There is if you're IFR.
>

[BT]

If I'm getting flight following... and the ATC controller recommends a
divert around a HOT MOA.. and I refuse...
I can expect his next transmission to be, "Roger, radar service terminated,
squawk 1200, good day and good luck."

BT

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> On our flight from Memphis, TN to Iowa City, IA, today, we were
>> diverted around the Lindbergh MOA.
>>
>
> Congratulations! When did you add the instrument rating?
>

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

karl gruber wrote:
> Jay? IFR? .............................oxymoron

Awh, come one... There's a couple of roads in Missouri...

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"BT" > wrote in message
...
>
> If I'm getting flight following... and the ATC controller recommends a
> divert around a HOT MOA.. and I refuse...
> I can expect his next transmission to be, "Roger, radar service
> terminated, squawk 1200, good day and good luck."
>

Why do you expect that?

[Jay Honeck]

> > On our flight from Memphis, TN to Iowa City, IA, today, we were
> > diverted around the Lindbergh MOA.
>
> Congratulations! When did you add the instrument rating?

While it's true that the controller "suggested" a heading of 360 to
stay clear of the Lindbergh MOA(s), I believe any good airman would
follow that suggestion.

There was a VFR Navajo in the MOA (on a photo mission of some sort)
that the controller was working the fighters around/above, and you
could tell that it was quite a PIA for all concerned. If my
diversion helped keep our boys (and me) safer, it was worth every pint
of (stupidly expensive) avgas.

I've flown close to F-15s when they were in the pattern to land, and
it was as if I was standing absolutely stock-still. I can't imagine
what flying near them during mock combat in an MOA would be like.
(Actually, it would be cool to see, but...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Kennett is one of my regular fuel stops. I had always assumed the
> canals had something to do with irrigation. Lots of cotton grown
> there. Rice a little farther south.

Biggest danged drainage system I've seen. They make the locks in
Sault.Ste Marie look like drainage ditches.

When the canal you're looking at stretches from horizon to horizon in
an absolutely straight line -- and you're at 7500 feet -- you know
someone has spent some tax dollars.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> While it's true that the controller "suggested" a heading of 360 to
> stay clear of the Lindbergh MOA(s), I believe any good airman would
> follow that suggestion.
>

I choose to avoid MOAs as well, but choosing to follow an ATC suggestion is
not being diverted by ATC.

[Blueskies]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
:
: "Blueskies" > wrote in message
: t...
: >
: > You 'were diverted' around an MOA? Don't you mean you decided to fly
: > around it.
: > There is no requirement to stay out of MOAs...
: >
:
: There is if you're IFR.
:
:

As always, Jay was VFR.

You are required to follow your clearance if you are IFR, where ever they send you there you
are...

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> As always, Jay was VFR.
>
> You are required to follow your clearance if you are IFR, where ever they
> send you
> there you are...
>

ATC would only divert him around a MOA if he was IFR.

[Blueskies]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
:
: "Blueskies" > wrote in message
: . ..
: >
: > As always, Jay was VFR.
: >
: > You are required to follow your clearance if you are IFR, where ever they
: > send you
: > there you are...
: >
:
: ATC would only divert him around a MOA if he was IFR.
:
:

Yup, that's what I said...

[Morgans[_2_]]

> : ATC would only divert him around a MOA if he was IFR.
> :
> :
>
> Yup, that's what I said...

Which is all picking nits at definitions and terminology. ATC requested
that he divert, when he gave a suggested heading. Of course Jay could
ignore it, but that would not be very smart, would it?
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> I choose to avoid MOAs as well, but choosing to follow an ATC suggestion is
> not being diverted by ATC.

And choosing to discuss this with you is not being diverted by logic.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[BT]

I have been on both sides of the mic. If a VFR aircraft chooses to proceed
through a HOT MOA and mix it up with fast fighters doing ACM (air combat
maneuvers) and I am not controlling the fighters.

He is on his own.

BT

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "BT" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> If I'm getting flight following... and the ATC controller recommends a
>> divert around a HOT MOA.. and I refuse...
>> I can expect his next transmission to be, "Roger, radar service
>> terminated, squawk 1200, good day and good luck."
>>
>
> Why do you expect that?
>

[BT]

Thanx Jay... I'm thinking the same thing..
BT

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> I choose to avoid MOAs as well, but choosing to follow an ATC suggestion
>> is
>> not being diverted by ATC.
>
> And choosing to discuss this with you is not being diverted by logic.
>
> :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
t...
>
> Yup, that's what I said...
>

No, it isn't.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> Which is all picking nits at definitions and terminology. ATC requested
> that he divert, when he gave a suggested heading. Of course Jay could
> ignore it, but that would not be very smart, would it?
>

Jay said nothing about an ATC suggestion, he said that he was diverted by
ATC.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> And choosing to discuss this with you is not being diverted by logic.
>

I doubt that you will ever be diverted by logic.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"BT" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have been on both sides of the mic. If a VFR aircraft chooses to proceed
> through a HOT MOA and mix it up with fast fighters doing ACM (air combat
> maneuvers) and I am not controlling the fighters.
>
> He is on his own.
>

Weak stick.

[Jay Honeck]

> > And choosing to discuss this with you is not being diverted by logic.
>
> I doubt that you will ever be diverted by logic.

Ouch. No smiley, either.

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[601XL Builder]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> And choosing to discuss this with you is not being diverted by logic.
>>
>
> I doubt that you will ever be diverted by logic.
>
>

Damn Steven you certainly have sand in your vagina this weekend.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Which is all picking nits at definitions and terminology. ATC requested
>> that he divert, when he gave a suggested heading. Of course Jay could
>> ignore it, but that would not be very smart, would it?
>>
>
> Jay said nothing about an ATC suggestion, he said that he was diverted by
> ATC.

He did say that he was diverted in the first post. When he was called on
it, he admitted as being wrong, and had this to say:

(Note: second quote is from Jay, the first from Blueskies)

Quote:
> You 'were diverted' around an MOA? Don't you mean you decided to fly
> around it. >There is no requirement to stay out of
> MOAs...

True enough. However, approach strongly "suggested" a course of 360
to avoid the MOA, because it was "hot". I heard him working several
F-16s out of Springfield, IL, as well as a couple of unidentified
other fighters (F-15s?). They had the airspace to 50,000 feet, so I
wasn't gonna fly over it!

I didn't want to mess them up, nor did I want to see one up close --
so diverted we did.

End quote.

He admitted being wrong. Can you move on, now that has been made public?
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote

> Weak stick.

How so? He was advised to go around, and chose not to. If it was a good
idea to go through, he would not have suggested to go around.

I would not fault a controller not wanting any part of a flight through a
hot MOA. Are you saying that you would be happy to continue being
responsible, as a controller, for a plane flying through a hot MOA?
--
Jim in NC

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> He did say that he was diverted in the first post. When he was called on
> it, he admitted as being wrong, and had this to say:
>
> (Note: second quote is from Jay, the first from Blueskies)
>
> Quote:
>> You 'were diverted' around an MOA? Don't you mean you decided to fly
>> around it. >There is no requirement to stay out of
>> MOAs...
>
> True enough. However, approach strongly "suggested" a course of 360
> to avoid the MOA, because it was "hot". I heard him working several
> F-16s out of Springfield, IL, as well as a couple of unidentified
> other fighters (F-15s?). They had the airspace to 50,000 feet, so I
> wasn't gonna fly over it!
>
> I didn't want to mess them up, nor did I want to see one up close --
> so diverted we did.
>
> End quote.
>
> He admitted being wrong. Can you move on, now that has been made public?
>

Sure. Your post suggested you were unaware of the situation.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> > And choosing to discuss this with you is not being diverted by logic.
>>
>> I doubt that you will ever be diverted by logic.
>
> Ouch. No smiley, either.

That is OK, Jay.

I'll bet Stephen argued with the doctor, about who his mother was, before
his umbilical cord was cut.

Note that there was no smiley there, either.

I have yet to see another human being who likes to pick a smaller nit, than
him. (besides he whose name will not be spoken, and I'm not positive about
that, either)
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote

> Sure. Your post suggested you were unaware of the situation.

There was nothing in my post that had any inference of when I became aware
of the situation, or whether I was or was not aware of the situation. You
chose to read that into it, but that is hardly surprising.
Anything to have a reason to argue.

Did you once work for the writers of Monty Python? I'm positive you had
something to do with the "I paid for an argument" skit.
--
Jim in NC

[karl gruber[_1_]]

he not him

[[email protected]]

On Mar 18, 5:17 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > Kennett is one of my regular fuel stops. I had always assumed the
> > canals had something to do with irrigation. Lots of cotton grown
> > there. Rice a little farther south.
>
> Biggest danged drainage system I've seen. They make the locks in
> Sault.Ste Marie look like drainage ditches.
>
> When the canal you're looking at stretches from horizon to horizon in
> an absolutely straight line -- and you're at 7500 feet -- you know
> someone has spent some tax dollars.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Awww, all those little duckies lost their swampy homes.
Probably made floods on the Mississippi all that much worse, too.
Bet they couldn't get that project approved today!

[Vic7]

you know someone has spent some tax dollars.

--
Jay Honeck




And there you have succinctly stated the real purpose of the ditches: bringing pork home to your constituents (if by constituents you understand me to mean contributors.)

The farm fields of eastern Arkysaw are incredibly fertile and productive because they have been regularly flooded for uncounted centuries. Displaying depressingly typical human wisdom, the farmers demanded that their representatives do something about the spring floods. The representatives threw money at the Corps of Engineers and the Corps happily consolidated and straighted out all those messy creeks and rivers.

Guess who's now spending more on fertilizer and irrigation?

V7

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> How so? He was advised to go around, and chose not to. If it was a good
> idea to go through, he would not have suggested to go around.
>

Not the pilot, "weak stick" refers to a poor controller. BT said he has
been on both sides of the mic, and would terminate flight following for an
aircraft that chose to go through a hot MOA.


>
> I would not fault a controller not wanting any part of a flight through a
> hot MOA. Are you saying that you would be happy to continue being
> responsible, as a controller, for a plane flying through a hot MOA?
>

Been there, done that. But ATC is not responsible for separation between
the using aircraft and VFR aircraft that choose to fly through a MOA.
Flight following is simply traffic advisories.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> There was nothing in my post that had any inference of when I became aware
> of the situation, or whether I was or was not aware of the situation. You
> chose to read that into it, but that is hardly surprising.
> Anything to have a reason to argue.
>

Not so. In his OP Jay said, "we were diverted around the Lindbergh MOA."
No mention of any request by ATC or any suggested heading. You wrote, "ATC
requested that he divert, when he gave a suggested heading." That implies
you were unaware of the situation, that you hadn't read the OP.