The pass at Gorman

[Cecil Chapman]

Question for those of you that live in the So Calif area. As early a
morning crossing as possible (taking account winds are low at the 'top')
would seem warranted, but for crossing back to Nor Calif, when is the best
time to head back over the pass for max passenger comfort, on the way back?
Most of the pilots up here that I ask, generally tell me to avoid it if the
winds at the pass are 20 knots plus and the other caveat they include is to
avoid early afternoons over the pass.

I've flown over and back the Donner Pass and early as possible seems to be
way to go there, so I was just trying to transfer the same rationale to the
pass (although much lower than Donner) at Gorman.

Ideas?

--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA
Reid-Hillview Airport, San Jose, California

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

On Mar 18, 7:03 am, "Cecil Chapman" >
wrote:
> Question for those of you that live in the So Calif area. As early a
> morning crossing as possible (taking account winds are low at the 'top')
> would seem warranted, but for crossing back to Nor Calif, when is the best
> time to head back over the pass for max passenger comfort, on the way back?
> Most of the pilots up here that I ask, generally tell me to avoid it if the
> winds at the pass are 20 knots plus and the other caveat they include is to
> avoid early afternoons over the pass.
>
> I've flown over and back the Donner Pass and early as possible seems to be
> way to go there, so I was just trying to transfer the same rationale to the
> pass (although much lower than Donner) at Gorman.
>
> Ideas?
>
> --
> =-----
> Good Flights!
>
> Cecil E. Chapman
> CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA
> Reid-Hillview Airport, San Jose, California
>
> Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
> checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
> Complete with pictures and text at:www.bayareapilot.com
>
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
>
> "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
> this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
> - Cecil Day Lewis -

Cecil
Having flown the Gorman area hundreds of times, the only time I recall
any real roughness was during high winds as in Santana winds. Probably
the best idea is to go over as high as you are comfortable. Depending
on where you are going you can stay high to avoid the turbulence and
still make a decent approach while avoiding the class B airspace out
of LAX. I based out of SNA and VNY for nearly 20 years.
As a general rule of thumb though, early/late is the best time to
avoid turbulence in the mountains anywhere.
BTW, some of the most dangerous ice I ever picked up was just east of
Gorman at Lake Hughes on a return from Fresno. It had me sweating
bullets while the boots were fighting to keep ice
reasonable....wheeeew! Not much room for fooling around in that area
when you are IFR. Of more concern is the crappy visibility that
usually hangs around the LA basin and the high density traffic.
OS&B

[Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.]

Many thanks! Sounds like a similiar strategy to when flying over Donner,
high as you can to stay out of the turb over the pass.

I'll likely just transition to VNY tower freq after being transitioned to
their freq by the approach controllers (I like the idea of talking to the
folks who are eyeballing all of us on their radar - especially in or near
the L.A. basin,, 'cause you are right about the visibility being so poor and
the traffic bein dense).

One of my former students had come to me, wainting to head to a LONGer
cross-country destination than the 'long' x-country he did for his PPL, so
he told me to pick one out that would be somewhere close to 3 hours each
way. I've never been to VNY and I liked the movie <grin>... One Six Right,
so it should be a great experience all around. I've got to check to see if
there is a restaurant on-field at Van Nuys so that I can have the $500
hamburger <grin>,,, goodness knows I've done the local $100 hamburger runs.

Ice is definitely NOT nice. Glad you came through to tell the story! :)

Thanks again!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[RST Engineering]

Having done both Gorman and Donner hundreds of time, what you learned at
Donner is perfectly applicable to Gorman. The only gotcha at Gorman is when
the Santa Ana winds (winds out of the east light and variable gusting to
sixty) blow. Then you could go over Gorman at midnight and get the snot
beat out of you.

Watch out for the controllers at VNY. Of the six close calls in the pattern
I've had in 45 years and 5000 hours, 3 of them were induced by the tower at
VNY. One of them was induced by the tower at OSH, one by the tower at MYF,
and one by the tower at SAN.

Jim



"Cecil Chapman" > wrote in message
et...
> Question for those of you that live in the So Calif area. As early a
> morning crossing as possible (taking account winds are low at the 'top')
> would seem warranted, but for crossing back to Nor Calif, when is the best
> time to head back over the pass for max passenger comfort, on the way
> back? Most of the pilots up here that I ask, generally tell me to avoid it
> if the winds at the pass are 20 knots plus and the other caveat they
> include is to avoid early afternoons over the pass.
>
> I've flown over and back the Donner Pass and early as possible seems to be
> way to go there, so I was just trying to transfer the same rationale to
> the pass (although much lower than Donner) at Gorman.
>
> Ideas?
>
> --
> =-----
> Good Flights!
>
> Cecil E. Chapman
> CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA
> Reid-Hillview Airport, San Jose, California
>
> Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
> checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
> Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com
>
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
>
> "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
> this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
> - Cecil Day Lewis -
>

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

On Mar 18, 11:19 am, "Cecil E. Chapman, Jr."
> wrote:
> Many thanks! Sounds like a similiar strategy to when flying over Donner,
> high as you can to stay out of the turb over the pass.
>
> I'll likely just transition to VNY tower freq after being transitioned to
> their freq by the approach controllers (I like the idea of talking to the
> folks who are eyeballing all of us on their radar - especially in or near
> the L.A. basin,, 'cause you are right about the visibility being so poor and
> the traffic bein dense).
>
> One of my former students had come to me, wainting to head to a LONGer
> cross-country destination than the 'long' x-country he did for his PPL, so
> he told me to pick one out that would be somewhere close to 3 hours each
> way. I've never been to VNY and I liked the movie <grin>... One Six Right,
> so it should be a great experience all around. I've got to check to see if
> there is a restaurant on-field at Van Nuys so that I can have the $500
> hamburger <grin>,,, goodness knows I've done the local $100 hamburger runs.
>
> Ice is definitely NOT nice. Glad you came through to tell the story! :)
>
> Thanks again!
>
> --
> --
> =-----
> Good Flights!
>
> Cecil E. Chapman
> CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA
>
> Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
> checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
> Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com
>
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
>
> "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
> this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
> - Cecil Day Lewis -

Cecil
There used to be one of the Aero Squadron chain on the east side about
mid-field but not sure about now. AOPA guide should have some current
info. There were a lot of good eateries near the airport in the old
days that have since closed.
OS&B
Soaring Buzzard
Infamous World Wide pilot/instructor

[Don Tuite]

On 18 Mar 2007 14:02:41 -0700, "Ol Shy & Bashful"
> wrote:

>On Mar 18, 11:19 am, "Cecil E. Chapman, Jr."
> wrote:
>> Many thanks! Sounds like a similiar strategy to when flying over Donner,
>> high as you can to stay out of the turb over the pass.
>>
>> I'll likely just transition to VNY tower freq after being transitioned to
>> their freq by the approach controllers (I like the idea of talking to the
>> folks who are eyeballing all of us on their radar - especially in or near
>> the L.A. basin,, 'cause you are right about the visibility being so poor and
>> the traffic bein dense).
>>
>> One of my former students had come to me, wainting to head to a LONGer
>> cross-country destination than the 'long' x-country he did for his PPL, so
>> he told me to pick one out that would be somewhere close to 3 hours each
>> way. I've never been to VNY and I liked the movie <grin>... One Six Right,
>> so it should be a great experience all around. I've got to check to see if
>> there is a restaurant on-field at Van Nuys so that I can have the $500
>> hamburger <grin>,,, goodness knows I've done the local $100 hamburger runs.
>>
>> Ice is definitely NOT nice. Glad you came through to tell the story! :)
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>> --
>> --
>> =-----
>> Good Flights!
>>
>> Cecil E. Chapman
>> CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA
>>
>> Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
>> checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
>> Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com
>>
>> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
>>
>> "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
>> this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
>> - Cecil Day Lewis -
>
>Cecil
>There used to be one of the Aero Squadron chain on the east side about
>mid-field but not sure about now. AOPA guide should have some current
>info. There were a lot of good eateries near the airport in the old
>days that have since closed.
>OS&B
>Soaring Buzzard
>Infamous World Wide pilot/instructor

If I were going for the sake of building time, I'd pick Agua Dulce
(more scenic) or Big Bear (real high-altitude practice, that isn't
Truckee/S Lake Tahoe/Mammoth). I've been to those places (not
recently), but I've never been to Kern County, which is in the right
direction and, I hear, somewhat challenging.

Don

[Steve Schneider]

Don Tuite wrote:
> On 18 Mar 2007 14:02:41 -0700, "Ol Shy & Bashful"
> > wrote:
>
..... snip
>
> If I were going for the sake of building time, I'd pick Agua Dulce
> (more scenic) or Big Bear (real high-altitude practice, that isn't
> Truckee/S Lake Tahoe/Mammoth). I've been to those places (not
> recently), but I've never been to Kern County, which is in the right
> direction and, I hear, somewhat challenging.
>
> Don


Agua Dulce used to be a regular stop for cheap fuel and great Tri-tip
BBQ. It was quite a gem with lots of organized events (Santa even flew
in by helicopter to meet the kids). However about 2 years ago
aviation-unfriendly community pressure managed to effectively close the
airport to non-local traffic. At the time there was talk of a
substantial landing fee and the FBO was forced to cease offering
discounted fuel due to the increased volume of transient traffic. I
don't believe the weekend BBQs are offered an longer. Quite the loss to
the So-Cal aviation communittee.

Big Bear is a great stop. Cheap fuel ($3.43 as of yesterday -- I was
there for the weekend, up from $3.11 two weeks ago. 24hr self serve).
Two good restaurants in the terminal building -- Barnstorm Cafe has
great food and a good variety on the menu, Mandarin Garden has good
Chineese food. A few others are within walking distance. If you have
kids on board, often the airport staff will hand out aviation toys to
the kids. Alas the the BigBearAirportHouse.com seems to have gone out
of business, so the runway cam is history.

Steve

[[email protected]]

On Mar 19, 1:56 pm, Steve Schneider > wrote:
> Don Tuite wrote:
> > On 18 Mar 2007 14:02:41 -0700, "Ol Shy & Bashful"
> > > wrote:
>
> .... snip
>
> > If I were going for the sake of building time, I'd pick Agua Dulce
> > (more scenic) or Big Bear (real high-altitude practice, that isn't
> > Truckee/S Lake Tahoe/Mammoth). I've been to those places (not
> > recently), but I've never been to Kern County, which is in the right
> > direction and, I hear, somewhat challenging.
>
> > Don
>
> Agua Dulce used to be a regular stop for cheap fuel and great Tri-tip
> BBQ. It was quite a gem with lots of organized events (Santa even flew
> in by helicopter to meet the kids). However about 2 years ago
> aviation-unfriendly community pressure managed to effectively close the
> airport to non-local traffic. At the time there was talk of a
> substantial landing fee and the FBO was forced to cease offering
> discounted fuel due to the increased volume of transient traffic. I
> don't believe the weekend BBQs are offered an longer. Quite the loss to
> the So-Cal aviation communittee.
>
> Big Bear is a great stop. Cheap fuel ($3.43 as of yesterday -- I was
> there for the weekend, up from $3.11 two weeks ago. 24hr self serve).
> Two good restaurants in the terminal building -- Barnstorm Cafe has
> great food and a good variety on the menu, Mandarin Garden has good
> Chineese food. A few others are within walking distance. If you have
> kids on board, often the airport staff will hand out aviation toys to
> the kids. Alas the the BigBearAirportHouse.com seems to have gone out
> of business, so the runway cam is history.
>
> Steve

As an Easterner that is presently in the SCal area, I found what you
say to be true. Aqua Dulce is a beautiful airport in the San Gagriel
mtns. that it is a shame the locals have tried to kill. Pilots should
go to the website

http://www.l70airport.com/

and register their support for the airport, to prevent it from being
shut down.
Big Bear is very nice also. Hopefully it will avoid the troubles
L70 has experienced. Glad I got the chance to visit these two before I
go back east.

Bud

[[email protected]]

On Mar 18, 5:03 am, "Cecil Chapman" >
wrote:
> Question for those of you that live in the So Calif area. As early a
> morning crossing as possible (taking account winds are low at the 'top')
> would seem warranted, but for crossing back to Nor Calif, when is the best
> time to head back over the pass for max passenger comfort, on the way back?
> Most of the pilots up here that I ask, generally tell me to avoid it if the
> winds at the pass are 20 knots plus and the other caveat they include is to
> avoid early afternoons over the pass.
>
> I've flown over and back the Donner Pass and early as possible seems to be
> way to go there, so I was just trying to transfer the same rationale to the
> pass (although much lower than Donner) at Gorman.
>
> Ideas?
>
> --
> =-----
> Good Flights!
>
> Cecil E. Chapman
> CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA
> Reid-Hillview Airport, San Jose, California
>
> Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
> checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
> Complete with pictures and text at:www.bayareapilot.com
>
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
>
> "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
> this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
> - Cecil Day Lewis -

I flew over Gorman about a month ago. The winds were not light at the
time, and Fox airport where I took off, had winds out of the east, as
I landed on rnwy 6 shortly after my fly over. Turbulence was low, even
somewhat calm, although santa anna winds can definitely cause major
bumps, as I have found out.
Also, Gorman is an interesting area, as that is where I-5 crosses
the San Andreas fault. The road that goes through Frazier Park and
Lake of the Woods, runs on top of the rift of the fault. The Gorman
VOR is literally right on top of the fault! I flew this route over the
fault up to the Carrizo Plain area where the fault is most visible.
Good flight for sightseeing if you get the chance.

Bud

[xxx]

I haven't been inside it for a long time, but the sign is still there.
It seems to still be open:

http://www.visitvalleyofthestars.org/dining_nightlife/94th_aero_squadron.htm



On Mar 18, 2:02 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" <selway...@yahoo
> Cecil
> There used to be one of the Aero Squadron chain on the east side about
> mid-field but not sure about now. AOPA guide should have some current
> info. There were a lot of good eateries near the airport in the old
> days that have since closed.
> OS&B
> Soaring Buzzard
> Infamous World Wide pilot/instructor