Hypoglycemia?

[EFIS2]

I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (gets weak/confused if does
not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there is not much
chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an airline
pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the deal is, or
if anybody knows about this problem. I also have bad eye floaters,
I'm sure that would be a problem too. I'm not really optimistic given
that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
not keep my blood sugar up.

[Jim Macklin]

See an FAA medical doctor [AME] and ask, As long as you eat
and have an awareness of your status, PPL should be no
problem. The FAA will issue medicals to diabetics taking
insulin as long as they carry a blood meter and test. You
just need to take a healthy lunch of protein, fats and not
just eat high carbs like sugar.
Floaters are common and unless they are a symptom of a
serious condition, not really a problem.

Airline job, not likely, because airlines hire the cream,
but you never know.



"EFIS2" > wrote in message
ups.com...
|I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (gets
weak/confused if does
| not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there
is not much
| chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an
airline
| pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the
deal is, or
| if anybody knows about this problem. I also have bad eye
floaters,
| I'm sure that would be a problem too. I'm not really
optimistic given
| that the condition often causes weakness and lack of
awareness if I do
| not keep my blood sugar up.
|

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On 6 Apr 2007 19:43:56 -0700, "EFIS2" > wrote:

>I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (gets weak/confused if does
>not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there is not much
>chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an airline
>pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the deal is, or
>if anybody knows about this problem. I also have bad eye floaters,
>I'm sure that would be a problem too. I'm not really optimistic given
>that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
>not keep my blood sugar up.

aviation medicals are about correctible defects and being in control
of any condition you suffer.
it is not 'what are you feeling before takeoff' it is more about being
competent and functional toward the end of a long flight.

while you have an awareness of your conditions you also comment in a
way that indicates that you dont control the condition which is the
real problem.

seek out an aviation medical examiner in your area and front up for a
medical. talk to the doc about your condition. dont work on hearsay,
work on facts, the doc may have a simple solution for you.

Stealth Pilot

[Mxsmanic]

EFIS2 writes:

> I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (gets weak/confused if does
> not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there is not much
> chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an airline
> pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the deal is, or
> if anybody knows about this problem.

Hypoglycemia is not unconditionally disqualifying, but the FAA must render a
decision in each individual case. You'd have to submit all the documentation
you can describing your condition and its causes, and then they would decide
whether to grant or deny. So it doesn't necessarily exclude you from getting
a license.

Reactive hypoglycemia is a form of glucose intolerance. It is closely related
to diabetes mellitus, even though the effect on blood glucose is the opposite.

Some people underreact to prandial glucose loads, and they become temporarily
hyperglycemic, sometimes markedly so. If the hyperglycemia becomes chronic
even while fasting, they are said to have diabetes mellitus. Temporary
hyperglycemia is usually harmless if it is not too acute, although it may
indicate a predisposition to DM. The hyperglycemia comes from inadequate
response to insulin (called Type II DM or NIDDM if chronic), or inadequate
production of insulin (called Type I DM or IDDM if chronic).

Hypoglycemia, both postprandial (reactive) and fasting, is much rarer than
hyperglycemia. There are a number of possible causes. Definitive treatment
requires treatment of the underlying cause. Treatment of the hypoglycemia
itself requires taking in food or glucose. In some cases, reactive
hypoglycemia may be associated with a predisposition to development of
hyperglycemia and DM.

Most hypoglycemia is asymptomatic, and most of the symptoms of hypoglycemia
can have other causes. It is essential to actually verify blood glucose
levels when the symptoms occur, to see if blood glucose really is abnormally
low.

Postprandial hyperglycemia is harmless if not too severe, although it may
indicate a prediposition to DM. Chronic hyperglycemia (diabetes mellitus) can
produce a constellation of severe complications over a period of years or
decades. Hypoglycemia is harmless if mild, even when chronic. Severe acute
hypoglycemia is life-threatening, though. However, severe hypoglycemia of
this type is almost always seen only in insulin overdoses among diabetics, and
in some types of poisoning (e.g., alcohol poisoning).

In the case of aviation, the FAA's concern seems to be incapacitation. DM is
a problem because an uncontrolled diabetic could enter a diabetic (DKA) coma,
and a controlled diabetic taking insulin or medication could enter insulin
shock. DM that does not require insulin or medication does not present a
significant risk of incapacitation.

Hypoglycemia can result in incapacitation if it drops very low, but this is
extremely rare even among people with chronic hypoglycemia (which is rare in
itself). The risk is very small.

> I also have bad eye floaters, I'm sure that would be a problem too.

Only if it makes it impossible to see clearly enough to fly even with
correction. The mere presence of floaters is not disqualifying.

> I'm not really optimistic given
> that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
> not keep my blood sugar up.

The FAA is unnecessarily strict and arbitrary in its requirements, so I tend
to agree with you, even though, in reality, your condition should not be an
obstacle to flying. While the underlying concern is incapacitation, the FAA
works in terms of disqualifying conditions, and not in terms of a general
assessment of the risk of incapacitation. If this latter risk can be
certified as acceptably low, however, you could still get a medical, and in
any case, your hypoglycemia and floaters are not absolute barriers to getting
one (particularly the latter).

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Stubby]

I have to ask: Are you a doctor? An AME?


Mxsmanic wrote:
> EFIS2 writes:
>
>> I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (gets weak/confused if does
>> not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there is not much
>> chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an airline
>> pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the deal is, or
>> if anybody knows about this problem.
>
> Hypoglycemia is not unconditionally disqualifying, but the FAA must render a
> decision in each individual case. You'd have to submit all the documentation
> you can describing your condition and its causes, and then they would decide
> whether to grant or deny. So it doesn't necessarily exclude you from getting
> a license.
>
> Reactive hypoglycemia is a form of glucose intolerance. It is closely related
> to diabetes mellitus, even though the effect on blood glucose is the opposite.
>
> Some people underreact to prandial glucose loads, and they become temporarily
> hyperglycemic, sometimes markedly so. If the hyperglycemia becomes chronic
> even while fasting, they are said to have diabetes mellitus. Temporary
> hyperglycemia is usually harmless if it is not too acute, although it may
> indicate a predisposition to DM. The hyperglycemia comes from inadequate
> response to insulin (called Type II DM or NIDDM if chronic), or inadequate
> production of insulin (called Type I DM or IDDM if chronic).
>
> Hypoglycemia, both postprandial (reactive) and fasting, is much rarer than
> hyperglycemia. There are a number of possible causes. Definitive treatment
> requires treatment of the underlying cause. Treatment of the hypoglycemia
> itself requires taking in food or glucose. In some cases, reactive
> hypoglycemia may be associated with a predisposition to development of
> hyperglycemia and DM.
>
> Most hypoglycemia is asymptomatic, and most of the symptoms of hypoglycemia
> can have other causes. It is essential to actually verify blood glucose
> levels when the symptoms occur, to see if blood glucose really is abnormally
> low.
>
> Postprandial hyperglycemia is harmless if not too severe, although it may
> indicate a prediposition to DM. Chronic hyperglycemia (diabetes mellitus) can
> produce a constellation of severe complications over a period of years or
> decades. Hypoglycemia is harmless if mild, even when chronic. Severe acute
> hypoglycemia is life-threatening, though. However, severe hypoglycemia of
> this type is almost always seen only in insulin overdoses among diabetics, and
> in some types of poisoning (e.g., alcohol poisoning).
>
> In the case of aviation, the FAA's concern seems to be incapacitation. DM is
> a problem because an uncontrolled diabetic could enter a diabetic (DKA) coma,
> and a controlled diabetic taking insulin or medication could enter insulin
> shock. DM that does not require insulin or medication does not present a
> significant risk of incapacitation.
>
> Hypoglycemia can result in incapacitation if it drops very low, but this is
> extremely rare even among people with chronic hypoglycemia (which is rare in
> itself). The risk is very small.
>
>> I also have bad eye floaters, I'm sure that would be a problem too.
>
> Only if it makes it impossible to see clearly enough to fly even with
> correction. The mere presence of floaters is not disqualifying.
>
>> I'm not really optimistic given
>> that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
>> not keep my blood sugar up.
>
> The FAA is unnecessarily strict and arbitrary in its requirements, so I tend
> to agree with you, even though, in reality, your condition should not be an
> obstacle to flying. While the underlying concern is incapacitation, the FAA
> works in terms of disqualifying conditions, and not in terms of a general
> assessment of the risk of incapacitation. If this latter risk can be
> certified as acceptably low, however, you could still get a medical, and in
> any case, your hypoglycemia and floaters are not absolute barriers to getting
> one (particularly the latter).
>

[Mxsmanic]

Stubby writes:

> I have to ask: Are you a doctor? An AME?

No.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

I've been taking the course of ignoring this idiot- but the last is over the
top. He is neither a physician nor a pilot (maybe he stayed at a Holiday Inn
Express and this was where he got his knowledge and expertise)

Regardless- you should seek the opinion of a real AME or contact AOPA for
advice. And, even though I am an AME and senior flight surgeon in the Air
Force, I would not presume to make a diagnosis or offer medical
recommendations without a proper history or examination.

I understand that this is all usenet, so all of it should be taken with a
large grain of salt. However, when he (MX) starts interpreting FAA
guidelines or making medical judgments it is completely out of line.

[Maxwell]

"EFIS2" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (gets weak/confused if does
> not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there is not much
> chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an airline
> pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the deal is, or
> if anybody knows about this problem. I also have bad eye floaters,
> I'm sure that would be a problem too. I'm not really optimistic given
> that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
> not keep my blood sugar up.
>

I haven't seen your name here before, so just incase you aren't aware.

All the advice given here seems to be very good to this point and time,
except that of MXMANIC. Don't assume anything for sure, until you sit down
and talk it over with an AME. He's the man, not only to acess your situation
relative to aviation, but also to suggest solutions.

As for MXMANIC, his is our resident self appointed wizard on everything from
breast feeding to landing an airliner, but has never given birth to anything
but BS, or flown anything but his desk.

I think the only thing he has proven qualifications for is living and
touring the Parris France area, with nothing but handouts from friends and
relatives.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Maxwell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "EFIS2" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (getsif does
>> not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there is not much
>> chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an airline
>> pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the deal is, or
>> if anybody knows about this problem. I also have bad eye floaters,
>> I'm sure that would be a problem too. I'm not really optimistic given
>> that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
>> not keep my blood sugar up.
>>
>
> I haven't seen your name here before, so just incase you aren't aware.
>
> All the advice given here seems to be very good to this point and time,
> except that of MXMANIC.

Hey!! You forgot to warn him about me!!! :-)

Don't assume anything for sure, until you sit down
> and talk it over with an AME. He's the man, not only to acess your
> situation relative to aviation, but also to suggest solutions.

You can talk to an AME, but DO NOT make an appointment for an FAA physical!
If you attempt and fail then you are also locked out of the Sport Pilot
option. If (and only if) you can fly OK, but can't pass the physical you can
still be a sport pilot as long as you didn't fail a physical first. But, you
really don't want to find yourself with "weakness and lack of awareness "
at the end of a long demanding flight - you have to take care of yourself,
eh? Ask the AME if "sport pilot" is a bad idea.

Another option is the AOPA - they have a medical department and can give you
some information on how likey you are to have problems.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Maxwell]

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in message
news:Ecedncx7tONiWIrbnZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
> "Maxwell" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "EFIS2" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>>I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (getsif does
>>> not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there is not much
>>> chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an airline
>>> pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the deal is, or
>>> if anybody knows about this problem. I also have bad eye floaters,
>>> I'm sure that would be a problem too. I'm not really optimistic given
>>> that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
>>> not keep my blood sugar up.
>>>
>>
>> I haven't seen your name here before, so just incase you aren't aware.
>>
>> All the advice given here seems to be very good to this point and time,
>> except that of MXMANIC.
>
> Hey!! You forgot to warn him about me!!! :-)
>
> Don't assume anything for sure, until you sit down
>> and talk it over with an AME. He's the man, not only to acess your
>> situation relative to aviation, but also to suggest solutions.
>
> You can talk to an AME, but DO NOT make an appointment for an FAA
> physical! If you attempt and fail then you are also locked out of the
> Sport Pilot option. If (and only if) you can fly OK, but can't pass the
> physical you can still be a sport pilot as long as you didn't fail a
> physical first. But, you really don't want to find yourself with
> "weakness and lack of awareness " at the end of a long demanding flight -
> you have to take care of yourself, eh? Ask the AME if "sport pilot" is a
> bad idea.
>
> Another option is the AOPA - they have a medical department and can give
> you some information on how likey you are to have problems.
>

You're right, I guess I'm assuming most AMEs are as helpful as the ones I
have used, and perhaps many are not. When I had a problem with my medical 10
years or so ago, my AME seemed as helpful as good lawyer in helping me
navigate the system. But I guess they are certainly not obligate to do so.

[Mxsmanic]

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> writes:

> You can talk to an AME, but DO NOT make an appointment for an FAA physical!
> If you attempt and fail then you are also locked out of the Sport Pilot
> option. If (and only if) you can fly OK, but can't pass the physical you can
> still be a sport pilot as long as you didn't fail a physical first. But, you
> really don't want to find yourself with "weakness and lack of awareness "
> at the end of a long demanding flight - you have to take care of yourself,
> eh? Ask the AME if "sport pilot" is a bad idea.

You may be getting ahead of things a little. It has not yet been established
that he could not pass the physical or otherwise obtain a medical, and you're
talking as though he has already failed it. Neither hypoglycemia nor floaters
are unconditionally disqualifying. It would be best to make discreet
inquiries, have his state of health assessed by a physician familiar with FAA
requirements, or ...

> Another option is the AOPA - they have a medical department and can give you
> some information on how likey you are to have problems.

.... and then decide.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[K Baum]

On Apr 7, 9:25 am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way
d0t com> >
> Don't assume anything for sure, until you sit down
> > and talk it over with an AME. He's the man, not only to acess your
> > situation relative to aviation, but also to suggest solutions.
>
> You can talk to an AME, but DO NOT make an appointment for an FAA physical!

Listen to Capt Geoff on this one. I understand that the medical forms
(Forgot the number) are tightly controlled, so once you fill it out,
the process will begin. Best to find out what you are up against
before you start. Most AME's will be glad to help.

> Another option is the AOPA - they have a medical department and can give you
> some information on how likey you are to have problems.

Take anything AOPA says with a grain of salt. If I had a buck for
every piece of bad advise they have given people I know, I could go
out and buy an airplane.
>
> --
> Geoff
KB
>

[Happy Dog]

"EFIS2" > wrote in message

>I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (gets weak/confused if does
> not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly)

Has it been diagnosed by an MD? Do you monitor your BGLs? If not, you
should get this done before getting your medical. mxmaniac is an idiot, but
his response, in this case, is substantially correct. Your alleged
condition isn't even tested for on a standard medical unless you admit that
you may be incapacitated or seriously adversely affected by it. That
admission would be made in the written questionaire applicants fill out as
part of the certification process. But there are a near-infinite number of
conditions that will beg for further scrutiny and / or disqualification.
First, establish that you really have reactive hypoglycemia. If you do,
you'll come under further scrutiny. If not, maybe you should disqualify
yourself on the grounds that you have a legitimate concern that you may not
be fit to act as PIC for uncertain reasons. mxmaniac, for instance, could
use his posting history here as an admission of a potentially dangerous
fantasy life.

moo

[James Sleeman]

On Apr 7, 2:43 pm, "EFIS2" > wrote:
> I'm not really optimistic given
> that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
> not keep my blood sugar up.

You already know the answer, it sounds like you do not think you are
fit to fly (at least as PPL) presently. It doesn't matter what the
doctor says, if you are unconvinced of your ability to keep control
then you should not be flying.

If your condition is *well* controlled and you know that for the
duration of any given flight that your condition will not create any
undue danger, then there should be little reason that the *FAA* would
prevent you from obtaining a medical with restrictions. Other
countries are not so lenient when it comes to hypoglycaemic tendancies
and you may find that it is not possible if you are not in the US.
There is not much chance of CPL let alone ATPL, but never say never.

I am a Type 1 Diabetic, similar to your malady, I'm not in the US, I
have no chance of a PPL where I live (for the forseeable future), but
I am satisfied in myself that my control is such that for any flight I
would conceivably undertake I am at no more danger than a regular
person, and so I, and my doctors, have no qualms about flying under
this country's microlight (similar to sport pilot) regulations. Of
course, testing, and carrying glucose snacks (Jelly Beans will do) is
mandatory.

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

In the US, even individuals with type I diabetes are able to get a third
class medical with a waiver. There are a lot of misperceptions and anecdotes
regarding the difficulty of getting a medical.

In the pubs, the AME's who are also pilots are listed, suggesting that AME
pilots may be more sympathetic to helping an individual get a medical. On
the other hand, there are certain conditions that absolutely disqualify
people from flying- and in these cases, it is not the fault of the AME.

It is reasonable to ask an AME (or better yet, look up the medical
requirements on the FAA website) about the medical requirements as well as
any concerns you have regarding your ability to fly. On the other hand, if
you willfully hide a known medical condition that might affect your flying
capabilities, you may also open yourself up to a lot of liability issues
that might affect both your and your family in the case of a claim.

Again, MX is not a pilot, physician, or AME. Make your own judgments about
all of this, but if you want to fly it is always worth making the effort,
which is more than can be said for him.

[Eduardo K.]

In article om>,
EFIS2 > wrote:
>I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (gets weak/confused if does
>not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there is not much
>chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an airline
>pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the deal is, or
>if anybody knows about this problem. I also have bad eye floaters,
>I'm sure that would be a problem too. I'm not really optimistic given
>that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
>not keep my blood sugar up.
>

erm.... I have the same and I just need to avoid simple carbs (sugar,
white bread and pasta) to be ok. Reactive hypoglycemia is just your
body overreacting to sugar and pumping too much insulin.

I dont need to keep by blood sugar up. I need to keep it low. if it goes
high, my body get its too low and I feel bad. if I dont eat, it normalizes
in an hour or so. If I do eat sugar, the cycle repeats and I feel worse.



--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://ev.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|

[Ron Natalie]

Viperdoc wrote:
\
>
> Regardless- you should seek the opinion of a real AME or contact AOPA for
> advice. And, even though I am an AME and senior flight surgeon in the Air
> Force, I would not presume to make a diagnosis or offer medical
> recommendations without a proper history or examination.
>
The REAL AME's are over on the forums.aopa.org site under MEDICAL
MATTERS. You need to be an AOPA member, but you should be one
anyhow.

[Ron Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> You may be getting ahead of things a little. It has not yet been established
> that he could not pass the physical or otherwise obtain a medical, and you're
> talking as though he has already failed it.

You have no ****ing clue again. Do you know that if you go into an AME
office with the intention of taking the physical (i.e., you start
filling out the application) you have started down in irrevocable path?

You can't just punt out of the medical. If for some reason you can't
pass, you can't get a sport pilot. If there is any chance you aren't
going to be able to qualify, you do WANT to act like you might fail it
and cover your bases.

> Neither hypoglycemia nor floaters
> are unconditionally disqualifying. It would be best to make discreet
> inquiries, have his state of health assessed by a physician familiar with FAA
> requirements, or ...
>
You don't want to bother with a physician or flight simulator wannabe
who thinks the know what is an FAA requirement. You need to talk to
people who know.

There are a handful of AME's (who know and who specialize in tricky
issuances) on the AOPA forums and the AOPA office itself. You
don't want some random doc playing with this. Just because he writes
you a letter saying that he sees no reason for your condition to
interfere with piloting MEANS SQUAT TO THE FAA.

[Mxsmanic]

Ron Natalie writes:

> You have no ****ing clue again.

I get my clues from the FAA, so you may wish to direct your criticisms to
them.

> Do you know that if you go into an AME
> office with the intention of taking the physical (i.e., you start
> filling out the application) you have started down in irrevocable path?

I didn't say anything about that. I simply said that it has not been
established that he cannot obtain a medical. Neither of the conditions he
mentions are unconditionally disqualifying. They are only a problem if they
interfere with his ability to fly. It has not been established that they do
so.

Thus, the possibility of getting a medical still exists, and prematurely
writing it off at this point is unwarranted.

> You can't just punt out of the medical. If for some reason you can't
> pass, you can't get a sport pilot. If there is any chance you aren't
> going to be able to qualify, you do WANT to act like you might fail it
> and cover your bases.

That prevents you from getting a PPL. Not everyone wants to be a sport pilot.
And see above--it hasn't been established that he'd fail a medical.

> You don't want to bother with a physician or flight simulator wannabe
> who thinks the know what is an FAA requirement. You need to talk to
> people who know.

That's what I said.

> There are a handful of AME's (who know and who specialize in tricky
> issuances) on the AOPA forums and the AOPA office itself. You
> don't want some random doc playing with this. Just because he writes
> you a letter saying that he sees no reason for your condition to
> interfere with piloting MEANS SQUAT TO THE FAA.

Actually, I've understood otherwise, but again, this is premature.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

I'm not sure I understand the point of your post- I am a real AME and a
member of AOPA. Most of my aerospace medicine activity is focused on Air
Force and military flying, which is around ten times more onerous than the
FAA, and a lot more stringent. For what it's worth I also fly real
airplanes.

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

There is an element of truth to Ron's statement. If an individual fills out
the FAA form but then bolts before the exam, the forms still need to be sent
to OKC. This presumably would help the FAA to identify individuals who might
have a disqualifying condition from doctor shopping.

Again, most docs, and especially those that are also pilots, would go out of
their way to help an individual submit a waiver application.

[Jim Macklin]

Also, since a medical application form includes a Student
Pilot certificate and a medical certificate, this is a
method of identity theft, impersonation and fraud. As a
result, doctors are required to get identification from
applicants and they must account for all forms.


"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
| There is an element of truth to Ron's statement. If an
individual fills out
| the FAA form but then bolts before the exam, the forms
still need to be sent
| to OKC. This presumably would help the FAA to identify
individuals who might
| have a disqualifying condition from doctor shopping.
|
| Again, most docs, and especially those that are also
pilots, would go out of
| their way to help an individual submit a waiver
application.
|
|

[Maxwell]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> There is an element of truth to Ron's statement. If an individual fills
> out the FAA form but then bolts before the exam, the forms still need to
> be sent to OKC. This presumably would help the FAA to identify individuals
> who might have a disqualifying condition from doctor shopping.
>
> Again, most docs, and especially those that are also pilots, would go out
> of their way to help an individual submit a waiver application.
>

As I said above, my AME was as helpful to me as a lawyer, in navigating the
system. But like others mentioned, he did have to submit my inital form,
which simply started documenting the rejection process. But at the same time
he told me he was forced to file it, he also fully expained our game plan
for fixing the problem, and geting me back to flight status in record time.
And he did just that.

All of the AMEs I have used maintain a routine medical practice as well. Is
there any reason a pilot can't make an appointment with a public AME for a
routine physical, and discuss his condition relative to a flight physical as
well. Thus, accessing the physican's expertese prior to initiating the FAA
process for a flight physical?

[[email protected]]

There's still another side of this that should be discussed. It's one
thing, and a 'good thing', to learn in an informal way if your
condition will prevent you from passing the medical. Do this before
making an appointment for an FAA medical exam because as has been
pointed out once you start that process the data is in the FAA's
records..

But, if you find your condition renders you unable to for example
drive a car from time to time -- that you have to pull off until you
regain control -- don't even think about becoming a pilot. There's no
pulling off to the side if the condition goes out of control, and it's
likely -- I'm not sure of this -- conditions of flight may provide an
environment that makes your condition more likely to become overt.

So I'm suggesting YOU make a mature decision. Is your condition such
that you're at some greater risk to have a medical condition put you
and your PX at risk? If so, stop now, even if you can find a way of
passing the physical.

Good luck!

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

It's a reasonable approach- find an AME that also has a private practice. I
would also advise someone to ask around to see who is willing to go the
extra mile to help a pilot, and the FAA lists AME's who are also pilots.

Once you start getting into waiver submissions, extra tests and
documentation start piling up, so some docs may not be enthusiastic about
doing all of this for the $80.00 or so that they charge.

Others may not primarily be a family physician- one of our busiest AME's is
also a pathologist. It would be hard to rationalize a routine visit to see
him under some other pretense!

The physical exam for a class II or III medical is pretty superficial- the
medical history is more important in identifying potentially disqualifying
defects. (also true for general exams). Failing to list known problems has a
lot of implications in case of an accident or incident.

Still, a pilot AME may be more sympathetic and helpful. Most docs are
interested in helping people keep flying, not the converse.

[Ron Natalie]

Viperdoc wrote:
> I'm not sure I understand the point of your post- I am a real AME and a
> member of AOPA. Most of my aerospace medicine activity is focused on Air
> Force and military flying, which is around ten times more onerous than the
> FAA, and a lot more stringent. For what it's worth I also fly real
> airplanes.
>
>
Sorry, Viper. Wasn't meaning to slight you. I was trying to
distinguish the know-nothing non-doc participants of this forum.
That being said the guys over on the AOPA boards go way out of
their way to help.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Danny Deger" > wrote

> If you have never been turned down for a medical you could fly under light
> sport aviation. Basically a 40's plane like a Cub (almost all without
> electrical system) or one of the new ones for about $80K. The big issue
> for light sport is a maximum gross weitht of 1320 pounds. With a couple
> of rare exceptions, all aircraft in the US with an electrical system are
> over this weight.

Nearly ALL of the new breed (modern designs) of LSA have FULL electrical
systems, with many even having equipment for night flight, and some having
equipment qualifying them for instrument flight. I would not consider that
"a couple of rare exceptions," in any measure of the term.

Most of the old designs that meet the LSA weights are pushing weight with
full electrical systems, but some still do have them.
--
Jim in NC

[Danny Deger]

"EFIS2" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I am a person with reactive hypoglycemia (gets weak/confused if does
> not eat healthy snacks/meals regularly) - I'm sure there is not much
> chance of being certified to get a PPL or go onto being an airline
> pilot - I just thought I'd ask if anybody knows what the deal is, or
> if anybody knows about this problem. I also have bad eye floaters,
> I'm sure that would be a problem too. I'm not really optimistic given
> that the condition often causes weakness and lack of awareness if I do
> not keep my blood sugar up.
>

If you have never been turned down for a medical you could fly under light
sport aviation. Basically a 40's plane like a Cub (almost all without
electrical system) or one of the new ones for about $80K. The big issue for
light sport is a maximum gross weitht of 1320 pounds. With a couple of rare
exceptions, all aircraft in the US with an electrical system are over this
weight.

However, if you "zone out" due to the problem, I would not recommend it. A
friend of mine has the problem and she has passed out twice in my presence.
If she had been acting as a pilot, she would have certainly died.

Danny Deger

[Danny Deger]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> You may be getting ahead of things a little. It has not yet been
>> established
>> that he could not pass the physical or otherwise obtain a medical, and
>> you're
>> talking as though he has already failed it.
>
> You have no ****ing clue again. Do you know that if you go into an AME
> office with the intention of taking the physical (i.e., you start
> filling out the application) you have started down in irrevocable path?
>
> You can't just punt out of the medical. If for some reason you can't
> pass, you can't get a sport pilot. If there is any chance you aren't
> going to be able to qualify, you do WANT to act like you might fail it
> and cover your bases.
>
>> Neither hypoglycemia nor floaters
>> are unconditionally disqualifying. It would be best to make discreet
>> inquiries, have his state of health assessed by a physician familiar with
>> FAA
>> requirements, or ...
> You don't want to bother with a physician or flight simulator wannabe who
> thinks the know what is an FAA requirement. You need to talk to
> people who know.
>
> There are a handful of AME's (who know and who specialize in tricky
> issuances) on the AOPA forums and the AOPA office itself. You
> don't want some random doc playing with this. Just because he writes
> you a letter saying that he sees no reason for your condition to
> interfere with piloting MEANS SQUAT TO THE FAA.

In my case I called the FAA in OK City and asked them directly about a
medical condition I had been diagnosed with. Based on this, I bought a 1941
Taylorcraft and am happily flying sport aviation.

Danny Deger

[Danny Deger]

"Happy Dog" > wrote in message
m...
> "EFIS2" > wrote in message
>
snip

>If not, maybe you should disqualify yourself on the grounds that you have a
>legitimate concern that you may not be fit to act as PIC for uncertain
>reasons.

This is good advice. If you have ever had an episode that you believe left
you in a condition you could not have operated a plane, don't fly unless you
are certain the problem has been fixed.

Danny Deger

[Mxsmanic]

Danny Deger writes:

> In my case I called the FAA in OK City and asked them directly about a
> medical condition I had been diagnosed with. Based on this, I bought a 1941
> Taylorcraft and am happily flying sport aviation.

You made the decision on the basis of a single phone call? What if the person
who answered the phone wasn't exactly the correct person to ask?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Danny Deger]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Danny Deger" > wrote
>
>> If you have never been turned down for a medical you could fly under
>> light sport aviation. Basically a 40's plane like a Cub (almost all
>> without electrical system) or one of the new ones for about $80K. The
>> big issue for light sport is a maximum gross weitht of 1320 pounds. With
>> a couple of rare exceptions, all aircraft in the US with an electrical
>> system are over this weight.
>
> Nearly ALL of the new breed (modern designs) of LSA have FULL electrical
> systems, with many even having equipment for night flight, and some having
> equipment qualifying them for instrument flight. I would not consider
> that "a couple of rare exceptions," in any measure of the term.
>
> Most of the old designs that meet the LSA weights are pushing weight with
> full electrical systems, but some still do have them.
> --

Thanks for correcting my post. I ment to say the older planes like Cubs,
Champs, etc. that are light sport have no electrical system. I shopped
quite a while for one and didn't find one. Taylorcraft made one, but only
produced 7 of them. Many Taylorcrafts have been modified to electrics, but
most of these were STCed up to 1,400 pounds. The Luscombes with electrics
are all too heavy. I ended up buying a Taylorcraft with a C-85-8 engine
without electrics that I can modify without too much expense if I want to.
I would have to change the accessory case to a -12 case that can accept a
starter motor.

> Jim in NC
>

[Danny Deger]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Danny Deger writes:
>
>> In my case I called the FAA in OK City and asked them directly about a
>> medical condition I had been diagnosed with. Based on this, I bought a
>> 1941
>> Taylorcraft and am happily flying sport aviation.
>
> You made the decision on the basis of a single phone call? What if the
> person
> who answered the phone wasn't exactly the correct person to ask?
>

I don't want to go into any details, but the single phone call only
confirmed what I was 99% certain of before I made the call. The answer was
very clear. No medical and no waiver.

Danny Deger


> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[EFIS2]

On Apr 8, 6:53 pm, wrote:
> There's still another side of this that should be discussed. It's one
> thing, and a 'good thing', to learn in an informal way if your
> condition will prevent you from passing the medical. Do this before
> making an appointment for an FAA medical exam because as has been
> pointed out once you start that process the data is in the FAA's
> records..
>
> But, if you find your condition renders you unable to for example
> drive a car from time to time -- that you have to pull off until you
> regain control -- don't even think about becoming a pilot. There's no
> pulling off to the side if the condition goes out of control, and it's
> likely -- I'm not sure of this -- conditions of flight may provide an
> environment that makes your condition more likely to become overt.
>
> So I'm suggesting YOU make a mature decision. Is your condition such
> that you're at some greater risk to have a medical condition put you
> and your PX at risk? If so, stop now, even if you can find a way of
> passing the physical.
>
> Good luck!

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Regarding the post above --- I am fine as long as I eat every couple
of hours or so. If not, I may start to feel bad. So, I have never
blacked out. If I were to let myself go too long without eating a
snack, I start to feel weak. I never black out though, just feel
terrible. If that were to happen, I could eat something sweet and I
would be pretty much alert again. Although, usually I avoid all sugar
and simple carbs unless i really need them.

I am a little dissapointed with some of the responses given my desire
to fly. P.S, i'm not interested in sport flying.
I am hoping that my condition will improve in the future - I'm working
on trying to reverse this condition. I hope not to have it for life.
Perhaps I will wait until I see an improvement in my situation.

Thanks Again
Efis2

[Gig 601XL Builder]

EFIS2 wrote:
>
> I am a little dissapointed with some of the responses given my desire
> to fly. P.S, i'm not interested in sport flying.
> I am hoping that my condition will improve in the future - I'm working
> on trying to reverse this condition. I hope not to have it for life.
> Perhaps I will wait until I see an improvement in my situation.
>
> Thanks Again
> Efis2

By not being interested in sport flying do you mean you are looking for a
commercial or ATP rating in the future? If so I wouldn't get my hopes up too
high. You say you've had the problem for quite some time but hope for
improvement. Do you think there is reason that it will clear itself? If it
cleared up via medicine you will still have to report it and while you might
get a waiver for class 3 getting a higher one is unlikely without a complete
clearing up of the condition.

[Mxsmanic]

EFIS2 writes:

> Regarding the post above --- I am fine as long as I eat every couple
> of hours or so. If not, I may start to feel bad. So, I have never
> blacked out. If I were to let myself go too long without eating a
> snack, I start to feel weak. I never black out though, just feel
> terrible. If that were to happen, I could eat something sweet and I
> would be pretty much alert again. Although, usually I avoid all sugar
> and simple carbs unless i really need them.

The straightforward solution would be to ensure that you always fly with a
suitable supply of glucose or anything else you can use to maintain your blood
glucose. As you well know, nobody suddenly drops to the floor from
hypoglycemia, with no warning, so you'd have plenty of time to munch on
something if you felt symptoms coming on. And actually being incapacitated
would be very unlikely indeed.

> I am a little dissapointed with some of the responses given my desire
> to fly. P.S, i'm not interested in sport flying.
> I am hoping that my condition will improve in the future - I'm working
> on trying to reverse this condition. I hope not to have it for life.
> Perhaps I will wait until I see an improvement in my situation.

See an endocrinologist, have your condition carefully assessed, and discuss
the options with him. If he feels that you can fly safely (and especially if
he's prepared to put this on paper, which you could pass on to the FAA), why
not go for the license now?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Jim Macklin]

You don't need any paperwork to buy a blood glucose meter,
take readings to see what you really have when you start to
feel "weak or tired" and go from there.

Having to eat every few hours is not abnormal.



"EFIS2" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| On Apr 8, 6:53 pm, wrote:
| > There's still another side of this that should be
discussed. It's one
| > thing, and a 'good thing', to learn in an informal way
if your
| > condition will prevent you from passing the medical. Do
this before
| > making an appointment for an FAA medical exam because as
has been
| > pointed out once you start that process the data is in
the FAA's
| > records..
| >
| > But, if you find your condition renders you unable to
for example
| > drive a car from time to time -- that you have to pull
off until you
| > regain control -- don't even think about becoming a
pilot. There's no
| > pulling off to the side if the condition goes out of
control, and it's
| > likely -- I'm not sure of this -- conditions of flight
may provide an
| > environment that makes your condition more likely to
become overt.
| >
| > So I'm suggesting YOU make a mature decision. Is your
condition such
| > that you're at some greater risk to have a medical
condition put you
| > and your PX at risk? If so, stop now, even if you can
find a way of
| > passing the physical.
| >
| > Good luck!
|
| Thanks for all the suggestions.
|
| Regarding the post above --- I am fine as long as I eat
every couple
| of hours or so. If not, I may start to feel bad. So, I
have never
| blacked out. If I were to let myself go too long without
eating a
| snack, I start to feel weak. I never black out though,
just feel
| terrible. If that were to happen, I could eat something
sweet and I
| would be pretty much alert again. Although, usually I
avoid all sugar
| and simple carbs unless i really need them.
|
| I am a little dissapointed with some of the responses
given my desire
| to fly. P.S, i'm not interested in sport flying.
| I am hoping that my condition will improve in the future -
I'm working
| on trying to reverse this condition. I hope not to have
it for life.
| Perhaps I will wait until I see an improvement in my
situation.
|
| Thanks Again
| Efis2
|

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-04-07 09:25:47 -0700, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at
wow way d0t com> said:

>>
>
> You can talk to an AME, but DO NOT make an appointment for an FAA physical!
> If you attempt and fail then you are also locked out of the Sport Pilot
> option.

Not at all. This is a major misconception about Sport Pilot. While you
cannot automatically fly if you have failed a medical exam, neither are
you 'locked out.' What it means, if you have failed an exam, is that
you need to clear up the issue with the FAA. That does not mean passing
the medical.

The thing is, too many people assume (from the badly written
regulation) that being physically able to drive and legal to hold a
driver's license allows you to fly Sport Pilot. That is not true. The
key is "other conditions." Basically, it means that you have to
convince the FAA that you are fit to fly Sport Pilot.

There are increasing numbers of pilots who lost their ability to fly
because they failed a medical, but who have been given the OK to fly
Sport Pilot. Granted, it is an extra step that you would not do if you
had never had a medical exam, but it is a far cry from being 'locked
out.'
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-04-10 18:30:45 -0700, "Danny Deger" > said:

>
> If you have never been turned down for a medical you could fly under light
> sport aviation.

Not true. If you have a significant medical condition that would keep
you from flying, you cannot automatically exercise sport pilot
privileges unless you first obtain a Special Issuance of a medical
clearance to fly sport pilot. From the FAQ on the FAA web site:


Sport Pilot Medical Certification-Frequently Asked Questions
If I suspect I have a significant medical condition, but have never had
an FAA medical certificate denied, suspended, or revoked, can I
exercise sport pilot privileges using my current and valid driverÕs
license, if otherwise qualified?

Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
Long-standing FAA regulation, ¤ 61.53, prohibits all pilots--those who
are required to hold airman medical certificates and those who are
not--from exercising privileges during periods of medical deficiency.
The FAA revised ¤ 61.53 to include under this prohibition sport pilots
who use a current and valid U.S. driverÕs license as medical
qualification. The prohibition is also added under ¤¤ 61.23 (c) (2)
(iv) and 61.303 (b) (2) (4) for sport pilot operations.

You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have
a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of
sport piloting duties. Certain medical information that may be helpful
for pilots can be found in our Pilot Safety Brochures.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Morgans[_2_]]

"C J Campbell" > wrote

> Not at all. This is a major misconception about Sport Pilot. While you
> cannot automatically fly if you have failed a medical exam, neither are
> you 'locked out.' What it means, if you have failed an exam, is that you
> need to clear up the issue with the FAA. That does not mean passing the
> medical.

I would love to see you back this opinion up with a relevant passage from
the regs.

"Clearing it up" by passing a failed medical IS necessary. You are correct
in that you can fail a medical, but you eventually must pass your last
medical, then continue to fly on the sport pilot rules.
--
Jim in NC

[Mxsmanic]

Morgans writes:

> I would love to see you back this opinion up with a relevant passage from
> the regs.

That would be FAR 67.401. A medical is not required in this case.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[EFIS2]

On Apr 13, 1:17 am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Morgans writes:
> > I would love to see you back this opinion up with a relevant passage from
> > the regs.
>
> That would be FAR 67.401. A medical is not required in this case.
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Sorry, my interests are mainly in the PPL & Instrument rating... sport
piloting is not something I am interested in doing at all. Commercial
would be nice, but from the posts here, it seems too hard to get the
medical for that, but if I were to persue that it would be for my
personal development, not for salary.

P.S, are previous eye operations disqualifying even if they do not
affect vision at the present time? Is there something that says that
disqualifies you if you have had this done?

Thanks
Efis

[Danny Deger]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:200704122114488930-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> On 2007-04-10 18:30:45 -0700, "Danny Deger" > said:
>
>>
>> If you have never been turned down for a medical you could fly under
>> light
>> sport aviation.
>
> Not true. If you have a significant medical condition that would keep
> you from flying, you cannot automatically exercise sport pilot
> privileges unless you first obtain a Special Issuance of a medical
> clearance to fly sport pilot. From the FAQ on the FAA web site:
>

Can you post a link?

Danny Deger


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


>
> Sport Pilot Medical Certification-Frequently Asked Questions
> If I suspect I have a significant medical condition, but have never had
> an FAA medical certificate denied, suspended, or revoked, can I
> exercise sport pilot privileges using my current and valid driverÕs
> license, if otherwise qualified?
>
> Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
> Long-standing FAA regulation, ¤ 61.53, prohibits all pilots--those who
> are required to hold airman medical certificates and those who are
> not--from exercising privileges during periods of medical deficiency.
> The FAA revised ¤ 61.53 to include under this prohibition sport pilots
> who use a current and valid U.S. driverÕs license as medical
> qualification. The prohibition is also added under ¤¤ 61.23 (c) (2)
> (iv) and 61.303 (b) (2) (4) for sport pilot operations.
>
> You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have
> a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of
> sport piloting duties. Certain medical information that may be helpful
> for pilots can be found in our Pilot Safety Brochures.
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor

[Mxsmanic]

EFIS2 writes:

> Sorry, my interests are mainly in the PPL & Instrument rating... sport
> piloting is not something I am interested in doing at all.

FAR 67.401 applies to all flying. It essentially gives the FAA the option to
pronounce a pilot medically fit irrespective of whether or not he managed to
pass a medical exam. It allows for case-by-case exceptions to be made to any
of the rules if the Federal Air Surgeon determines that a pilot is capable of
flying safely, no matter what medical condition he might have. It provides
for special authorizations and Statements of Demonstrated Ability (SODAs), and
various other flexibilities. So it provides a last-resort,
anything-is-possible method of getting a medical certification.

Unfortunately I don't know how often it is invoked in practice, although I
know that it definitely does happen (it's not a purely theoretical provision).

> Commercial
> would be nice, but from the posts here, it seems too hard to get the
> medical for that, but if I were to persue that it would be for my
> personal development, not for salary.

In theory you could get even a first-class medical via the provisions of
67.401, although I'd agree that it's probably much less likely to be granted
than the third-class for a PPL.

> P.S, are previous eye operations disqualifying even if they do not
> affect vision at the present time?

No, but sometimes they require a decision from the FAA (the medical cannot be
granted without a review of supporting documentation). Things like cataract
surgery, glaucoma surgery, retinal reattachment, etc., are okay if your vision
meets the standards and if an FAA review of the documentation and examination
results is favorable.

> Is there something that says that disqualifies you if you have had this done?

Nothing specifically says that just having had surgery is disqualifying. It
depends on what the surgery was for, the current state of your eyes, the
current quality of your vision, and any possibility of progressive worsening
of your vision or aggravation of any condition you have by flying. And
there's always 67.401 as a last resort.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Danny Deger writes:

> Can you post a link?

The regulations simply say that you cannot fly if you know that you are in no
condition to fly. Note that the regulations talk about a condition that makes
it unsafe to fly, not a condition that would disqualify you from getting a
medical. So if you have a condition that prevents you from getting a
third-class medical, but you've never actually applied for it and been denied,
and the condition does not actually make it unsafe for you to fly, you could
still fly as a light sport pilot with a driver's license.

No matter what the medical you have (including none at all), if you have a
condition that you know makes it unsafe for you to fly (e.g. pneumonia, or
whatever), you can't legally fly. The condition could be permanent or
temporary.

FAR 61.53 (excerpt):

Part 61 CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND GROUND INSTRUCTORS
Subpart A--General

Sec. 61.53

Prohibition on operations during medical deficiency.

[...]

(b) Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations
provided for in Sec. 61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in
command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while
that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would
make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.

(c) Operations requiring a medical certificate or a U.S. driver's license. For
operations provided for in §61.23 (c), a person must meet the provisions of -

(1) Paragraph (a) of this section if that person holds a valid medical
certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter and does not hold
a current and valid U.S. driver's license.

(2) Paragraph (b) of this section if that person holds a current and
valid U.S. driver's license.]

Amdt. 61-110, Eff. 9/1/2004

FAR 61.303 (excerpt):

Part 61 CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND GROUND INSTRUCTORS
Subpart J--Sport Pilots

Sec. 61.303

[...]

(b) A person using a current and valid U.S. driver's license to meet the
requirements of this paragraph must--

(1) Comply with each restriction and limitation imposed by that
person's U.S. driver's license and any judicial or administrative
order applying to the operation of a motor vehicle;

(2) Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class
airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent
application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);

(3) Not have had his or her most recently issued medical certificate
(if the person has held a medical certificate) suspended or revoked
or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical
Certificate withdrawn; and

(4) Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that
would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft*
in a safe manner.

Amdt. 61-110, Eff. 9/1/2004

--
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