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Tim[_3_]
April 8th 07, 02:02 AM
About 35 miles southwest of KLSC, Salt Lake City Intl (just beyond the
Mode C veil) there is a box marked by a thick broken magenta line on the
Salt Lake sectional. Nearby, there is a Notice: "For National Security
reasons, pilots are requested to avoid flight at/below 4,000' in this
area."

The area is around one of the chemical weapons stockpiles and
incinerator facilities in the vast Dugway Proving Ground area. Is this
broken magenta line used anywhere else? Does it have an official
meaning?

If National Security is the issue, why isn't the area marked as
Restricted instead? Perhaps it should say "For reasons of your health
and not breathing toxic chemical weapon waste smoke, you might want to
fly elsewhere?

Mxsmanic
April 8th 07, 02:35 AM
Tim writes:

> About 35 miles southwest of KLSC, Salt Lake City Intl (just beyond the
> Mode C veil) there is a box marked by a thick broken magenta line on the
> Salt Lake sectional. Nearby, there is a Notice: "For National Security
> reasons, pilots are requested to avoid flight at/below 4,000' in this
> area."

That's the Tooele Army Depot, where chemical and biological weapons are stored
and destroyed.

> The area is around one of the chemical weapons stockpiles and
> incinerator facilities in the vast Dugway Proving Ground area.

Yes, see above.

> Is this broken magenta line used anywhere else? Does it have an official
> meaning?

Yes, it's a National Security Area (NSA). Pilots are requested to voluntarily
avoid NSAs. Many of them replace TFRs, and they are less restrictive than
TFRs. However, NSAs can be instantly transformed into prohibited areas by
NOTAM, so beware.

There are lots of other NSAs. There's a small area like that just southwest of
R-6701 in Seattle for example (between the "wings" of the Chinook MOA), and
another one east of that that's so small it has only one little magenta block.
There's another one just east of Livermore, California. I think several
national mints have blocks like this, too. There's one just east of the
Pueblo VOR southwest of Denver that might be one of these.

> If National Security is the issue, why isn't the area marked as
> Restricted instead? Perhaps it should say "For reasons of your health
> and not breathing toxic chemical weapon waste smoke, you might want to
> fly elsewhere?

NSAs are voluntary restrictions that can be made official at a moment's
notice. Apparently the idea is to restrict them less and make them look more
"friendly" while still retaining the option of making them fully prohibited
almost without notice.

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Tim[_3_]
April 8th 07, 04:14 AM
Mxsmanic wrote:

> Tim writes:
>
> > About 35 miles southwest of KLSC, Salt Lake City Intl (just beyond the
> > Mode C veil) there is a box marked by a thick broken magenta line on the
> > Salt Lake sectional. Nearby, there is a Notice: "For National Security
> > reasons, pilots are requested to avoid flight at/below 4,000' in this
> > area."
>
> That's the Tooele Army Depot, where chemical and biological weapons are stored
> and destroyed.
>
> > The area is around one of the chemical weapons stockpiles and
> > incinerator facilities in the vast Dugway Proving Ground area.
>
> Yes, see above.
>
> > Is this broken magenta line used anywhere else? Does it have an official
> > meaning?
>
> Yes, it's a National Security Area (NSA). Pilots are requested to voluntarily
> avoid NSAs. Many of them replace TFRs, and they are less restrictive than
> TFRs. However, NSAs can be instantly transformed into prohibited areas by
> NOTAM, so beware.

No, they can't. Creating a probited area requires administrative action and
publishing on the federal register, which takes time.
Of course temp. flight restirctions can be created at any time.

Blanche
April 8th 07, 04:55 AM
The area NW of PUB is the chemical dump. Requested altitude is 3000 AGL
unless you are landing. Which is silly. If you're landing, it's
irrelevant. If you're not landing, you're gonna be LTOS higher
than 3000 AGL around there.

Mxsmanic
April 8th 07, 05:04 AM
Tim writes:

> No, they can't. Creating a probited area requires administrative action and
> publishing on the federal register, which takes time.

Flight through NSAs can be instantly prohibited by NOTAM.

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C J Campbell[_1_]
April 8th 07, 06:14 AM
On 2007-04-07 18:02:08 -0700, Tim > said:

>
> The area is around one of the chemical weapons stockpiles and
> incinerator facilities in the vast Dugway Proving Ground area. Is this
> broken magenta line used anywhere else? Does it have an official
> meaning?
>
> If National Security is the issue, why isn't the area marked as
> Restricted instead? Perhaps it should say "For reasons of your health
> and not breathing toxic chemical weapon waste smoke, you might want to
> fly elsewhere?

There are a few of these around. You see them around Navy bases, for
example. If pilots are generally avoiding the area it is easier to
monitor the few planes that do enter it. They did not make it a
restricted area because they could not justify actually closing the
area. It can be closed by NOTAM if security threat is high or if too
many aircraft are entering the area.

Despite the phrasing that it is a 'request,' the Navy in Bremerton has
threatened to use lethal force against any aircraft that enters the
National Security Areas in Puget Sound. These knotheads don't seem to
understand that shooting down a family of four or dropping one of their
missiles on a school might so outrage the community that the base would
be closed.

If you do want to fly through an NSA without worry you can call the
controlling authority and get permission. They are often less nervous
if they are expecting you.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Ron Natalie
April 8th 07, 02:46 PM
Mxsmanic wrote:

> That's the Tooele Army Depot, where chemical and biological weapons are stored
> and destroyed.

Actually, it's now the Tooele Disposal Facility. The stockpile is the
Deseret Chemical Depot. They are in fact colocated with the Dugway
Proving Ground. The major difference is in chain of command.
The Proving Ground is run by TECOM. The disposal facility is
run by the Army Chemical Materials Agency.

> NSAs are voluntary restrictions that can be made official at a moment's
> notice. Apparently the idea is to restrict them less and make them look more
> "friendly" while still retaining the option of making them fully prohibited
> almost without notice.
>
The major difference is that R areas are by and large established
not for security but because some activity within them is incompatible
with air traffic. The NSA's are there because they are afraid that
an airplane unintentionally crashing would pose additional due to
what's on the ground.

Tim[_3_]
April 8th 07, 06:55 PM
Mxsmanic wrote:

> Tim writes:
>
> > No, they can't. Creating a probited area requires administrative action and
> > publishing on the federal register, which takes time.
>
> Flight through NSAs can be instantly prohibited by NOTAM.

Thanks for the update. However, a NOTAM does NOT and cannot create a prohibited
area, at best it creates a temporary flight restriction.

Mxsmanic
April 8th 07, 08:29 PM
Tim writes:

> Thanks for the update. However, a NOTAM does NOT and cannot create a prohibited
> area, at best it creates a temporary flight restriction.

Yes, I know, thank you.

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