Commercial Certificate

[kevmor]

I'm looking to work towards my commercial certificate soon and was
wondering what I should expect. I passed the written today and will
be starting the practical training soon. I know there are more
difficult maneuvers and the complex aircraft flying, but what else?
Other than that, is it mainly more precise flying and more knowledge
of systems, etc.? How long does it usually take to obtain? About the
same as the private?

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 9, 8:39 pm, "kevmor" > wrote:
> I'm looking to work towards my commercial certificate soon and was
> wondering what I should expect. I passed the written today and will
> be starting the practical training soon. I know there are more
> difficult maneuvers and the complex aircraft flying, but what else?
> Other than that, is it mainly more precise flying and more knowledge
> of systems, etc.? How long does it usually take to obtain? About the
> same as the private?

No where near as long as the private. Within 2 or 3 lessons your CFI
will have shown you all the required manuervers. After that its just
however long it takes you to master them. Some people get them quick
others slowly, but no where near the time for a private ticket. Try to
get a CFI who teaches commercial/CFI maneuvers. Most of us don't fly
those very often and therefore would be pretty rusty to show them to
students.

-Robert, CFII

[kontiki]

The Commercial was not difficult. One or two of the manuevers
you have to perform (eights on pylons, lazy eights) can be
challenging and require a lot of practice to perform smoothly
and correctly.

The main thin I remmber about it is that the oral was more detailed
and technical and you will probably asked alot about the limitations
and priveledges of the license.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 9, 11:39 pm, "kevmor" > wrote:
> I'm looking to work towards my commercial certificate soon and was
> wondering what I should expect. I passed the written today and will
> be starting the practical training soon. I know there are more
> difficult maneuvers and the complex aircraft flying, but what else?
> Other than that, is it mainly more precise flying and more knowledge
> of systems, etc.? How long does it usually take to obtain? About the
> same as the private?

what do you want to be?

[[email protected]]

On Apr 9, 11:54 pm, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> On Apr 9, 8:39 pm, "kevmor" > wrote:
>
> > I'm looking to work towards my commercial certificate soon and was
> > wondering what I should expect. I passed the written today and will
> > be starting the practical training soon. I know there are more
> > difficult maneuvers and the complex aircraft flying, but what else?
> > Other than that, is it mainly more precise flying and more knowledge
> > of systems, etc.? How long does it usually take to obtain? About the
> > same as the private?
>
> No where near as long as the private. Within 2 or 3 lessons your CFI
> will have shown you all the required manuervers. After that its just
> however long it takes you to master them. Some people get them quick
> others slowly, but no where near the time for a private ticket. Try to
> get a CFI who teaches commercial/CFI maneuvers. Most of us don't fly
> those very often and therefore would be pretty rusty to show them to
> students.
>
> -Robert, CFII

hey

[Mark T. Dame]

kevmor wrote:
> I'm looking to work towards my commercial certificate soon and was
> wondering what I should expect. I passed the written today and will
> be starting the practical training soon. I know there are more
> difficult maneuvers and the complex aircraft flying, but what else?
> Other than that, is it mainly more precise flying and more knowledge
> of systems, etc.? How long does it usually take to obtain? About the
> same as the private?

As others pointed out, it doesn't take nearly as long as a private.
Main points:

Make sure you have the number of hours required (250 total, 100 PIC, 50
PIC cross country).

You need 20 hours of dual working towards the commercial certificate.
The FARs state that 10 hours of that must be instrument training unless
you already have an instrument rating. Many people read this to mean
that to mean that if you have an instrument rating you only need 10
hours of dual working towards the certificate. I even had a DE tell me
that once. If you look at the FAA's official Part 61 FAQ (if you can
find it) you will find that this is not the case: you must have 20
hours of training towards the commercial certificate.

Other things that caught me off guard: you need two 100+ mile, 2+ hour
dual cross country flights, one day and one night. These must be in VFR
conditions (i.e. none of the dual cross country time you did towards
your instrument rating counts because those were done in instrument
(actual or simulated) conditions).

Also, you need a 300+ mile solo (no one else in the cockpit) cross
country with at least thee stops with one leg being at least 250 miles.
The regs don't specify if that needs to be VFR.

Finally, you need 5 hours of VFR night time with 10 take offs and
landings at a controlled field. For that one, I just went up one night
and spent an hour and a half doing stop and go's at the closest towered
field.

The maneuvers aren't too bad. As someone else pointed out, your
instructor can show them all to you in two or three flights.

Steep turns - 50 - 55 degrees instead of the 45 degrees for private.
Additionally, as you roll out, you roll into another one in the opposite
direction (making kind of an eight course).

Steep spirals - Climb up high, slow down to best glide in landing
configuration and do a series of at least three 360 turns around a
point, level off on the original heading and recover. The key to this
maneuver is using a steep enough bank so you can make the full three
turns. Other than that, you just apply wind correction like you would
for a turn around a point.

Eights on pylons - These are odd at first. You fly an eight shaped
track around two points. As you turn on each point you need to keep you
wing on the point. You do this by changing altitude. For each ground
speed there is a "pivotal altitude" that works. As you turn around the
points, your ground speed changes (unless there's no wind) so you need
to constantly adjust your altitude.

Chandelles - This is a high performance climbing 180 degree turn.
Basically you want to establish a pitch attitude and a roll rate that
puts you just above stall speed when you completely the 180 degree turn.
Make sure you use your rudder!

Lazy Eights - These are basically a way to show off your ability to
control the aircraft through various airspeeds and attitudes. You make
a series of 180 degree turns in opposite directions (makes an S track
over the ground) constantly changing pitch and/or bank. If you are
doing it right, they practically fly themselves.

I found chandelles and lazy eights particularly frustrating at first.
Once I figured them out, they were no big deal.

Finally, in a complex aircraft you will need to demonstrate emergency
procedures, including manual gear extension, short and soft field takes
offs and landings, and a 180 degree power off precision landing (touch
down within 200 feet of the target, but not before).

That's the highlights. Your instructor will give you more details.

It was a pretty fun rating. For the checkride, I found the oral harder
than the flying because you need to know a lot more than you did for
your private, but it wasn't that difficult. Certainly not as hard at
the Instrument checkride.

Good luck!


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame >
## CP-ASEL, AGI
## <insert tail number here>
## KHAO, KISZ
"Yea though I fly through the Valley of Death I shall fear no evil,
for I am at 80,000 feet and climbing."
-- At the entrance to the old SR-71 operating base
Kadena, Japan

[wrxpilot]

On Apr 9, 9:39 pm, "kevmor" > wrote:
> I'm looking to work towards my commercial certificate soon and was
> wondering what I should expect. I passed the written today and will
> be starting the practical training soon. I know there are more
> difficult maneuvers and the complex aircraft flying, but what else?
> Other than that, is it mainly more precise flying and more knowledge
> of systems, etc.? How long does it usually take to obtain? About the
> same as the private?

Like other said, not as long as the private. I did all of my training
in about 8 days with a total of about 15 hours and then took the
checkride. Just study up on the oral stuff. You need to know
everything about Airspace, Equipment Lists (the difference between an
MEL, 91.205/91.213, etc.). Also know your basic weather stuff that I
assume you did for your IA (what to expect during a briefing,
different types of fronts, how to read a METAR, etc.).

I did a comprehensive writeup of my comm checkride on another site if
you want to see it:
http://www.studentpilot.com/interact/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=366622#post366622

Good luck!

[Andrew Sarangan]

In addition to everything that was said, the commercial maneuvers are
addictive. The reason is, every one does them slightly differently and
very few do them perfectly. If your goal is perfection, you can spend
a lot of time on these maneuvers. But checkride standard could be
achieved in a few hours of practice.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> In addition to everything that was said, the commercial maneuvers are
> addictive. The reason is, every one does them slightly differently and
> very few do them perfectly. If your goal is perfection, you can spend
> a lot of time on these maneuvers. But checkride standard could be
> achieved in a few hours of practice.



Maybe I did it wrong. I took the commercial checkride about six months after
earning my instrument rating. Basically, it took me exactly 10 hours of dual,
all but 1.6 of it in a C-172. I did the final 1.6 in an Arrow, and did the
checkride in an Arrow as well.

That 10 hours of dual was all spent learning the commercial maneuvers, all of
which I've subsequently forgotten except for the chandelle. Total time was
about 310 hours.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Danny Deger]

"kevmor" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm looking to work towards my commercial certificate soon and was
> wondering what I should expect. I passed the written today and will
> be starting the practical training soon. I know there are more
> difficult maneuvers and the complex aircraft flying, but what else?
> Other than that, is it mainly more precise flying and more knowledge
> of systems, etc.? How long does it usually take to obtain? About the
> same as the private?
>

The main trick to doing the maneuvers is to take your check ride on a calm
day :-) Given a no wind day, you can learn them all in about an hour.

Danny Deger

[andrew m. boardman]

In article >, Mark T. Dame > wrote:
>Other things that caught me off guard: you need two 100+ mile, 2+ hour
>dual cross country flights, one day and one night.

Best advice I've ever heard for these (since, at that point, a 100 mile
flight is pretty cut-and-dried for most people) is to try flying them
right-seat. It definitely made it interesting for me.

Note that a lot of the advice given here may go out the window with the
impending part 61 rewrite, though.