Glass vs. Charts

[Mxsmanic]

When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up on
your GPS, and why?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic > wrote:
> When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
> databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
> frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up on
> your GPS, and why?

I do all that and more before I leave the house because that is what
you are supposed to do.

As to the source, it is a mix of sectional, AF/D, Flight Guide, and
the AOPA airport diagrams.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> I do all that and more before I leave the house because that is what
> you are supposed to do.

Then why do GPS units also provide this information?

--
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[Paul kgyy]

On Apr 10, 9:07 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:
> > I do all that and more before I leave the house because that is what
> > you are supposed to do.
>
> Then why do GPS units also provide this information?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Because they can. Another example of overdesign, though sometimes I
admit it's handy to have it in the GPS.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:

> > I do all that and more before I leave the house because that is what
> > you are supposed to do.

> Then why do GPS units also provide this information?

Marketing.

Of the things you mentioned, the only thing I find useful in flight
is airspace boundaries and then only when maneuvering around an
airport that is adjacent to or under some controlled airspace.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 10, 6:24 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
> databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
> frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up on
> your GPS, and why?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Certainly not in the G1000 system, it doesn't have any where near
enough information to fly IFR without charts. For VFR you can fly
anything without charts (except through the L.A.. routes).

-Robert

[Robert Barker]

I'm a belt, suspenders, and rope kind of flyer. I figure just by being
prepared, I can help defeat Murphy's law! :-) You don't need batteries for
paper charts... And just in case of the worst, sectionals make great
kindling for starting a signal fire! And Jepp charts would make great TP if
you make an unplanned arrival in the wilderness...

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
> databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
> frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up
> on
> your GPS, and why?
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Danny Deger]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
> databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
> frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up
> on
> your GPS, and why?
>
> --

I just got back into flying by buying a Taylorcraft in Wisconsin and flying
it to Houston Texas. I had owned one before and took it cross country a
lot.

This time I had a GPS with VFR database. I compromized on the charts and
bought WACS instead of sectionals. I figured I could get to my destination
with a WAC. I would never use a WAC only in a plane without a VOR or GPS.
I used the GPS exclusively for frequencies (I also had a hand held radio).

I found the GPS a wonderful tool in Houston and Little Rock. At Little Rock
there is only about a 2 mile wide corridor between class D to the north and
class C to the south to get into the uncontrolled North Little Rock airport.
There is also restricted areas a couple of miles to the west. The GPS was
GREAT in getting me in without having to use my very noisy hand held radio.
Apparently I need an external push to talk switch. Even though I had a
headset, it appears that the mic on the handset is activated when the push
to talk switch on the handset is activated. Basically I couldn't talk on
the radio, so I needed to stay out of the class D airspace.

Danny Deger


> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[ArtP]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:24:57 +0200, Mxsmanic >
wrote:

>When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
>databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
>frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up on
>your GPS, and why?

I use the GPS and carry a backup in my PDA except for enroute which is
paper.

[Jim Stewart]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
> databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
> frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up on
> your GPS, and why?

Read this...

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magazine/fullstory.cfm?id=5846&issue_title=January%202007

[Mxsmanic]

Jim Stewart writes:

> http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magazine/fullstory.cfm?id=5846&issue_title=January%202007

Very interesting ... and much in agreement with some of the things I've
already mentioned myself (with respect to the _necessity_ of current
databases). Also, it's nice to see something on that site that doesn't
require membership to view.

--
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[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Jim Stewart writes:
>
>> http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magazine/fullstory.cfm?id=5846&issue
>> _title=January%202007
>
> Very interesting ... and much in agreement with some of the things
> I've already mentioned myself (
>


Bwawhahhwhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwha hwhahwhahhwhahwhahhwhahwh
ahwhhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahhw


bertie

[Danny Deger]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
. 130...
> Mxsmanic > wrote in
> :
>
>> Jim Stewart writes:
>>
>>> http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magazine/fullstory.cfm?id=5846&issue
>>> _title=January%202007
>>
>> Very interesting ... and much in agreement with some of the things
>> I've already mentioned myself (
>>
>
>
> Bwawhahhwhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwha hwhahwhahhwhahwhahhwhahwh
> ahwhhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahhw
>
>

And why did you think anyone on this group would like to read this?

Danny Deger

> bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> . 130...
>> Mxsmanic > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Jim Stewart writes:
>>>
>>>> http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magazine/fullstory.cfm?id=5846
&iss
>>>> ue _title=January%202007
>>>
>>> Very interesting ... and much in agreement with some of the things
>>> I've already mentioned myself (
>>>
>>
>>
>>
Bwawhahhwhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwha hwhahwhahhwhahwhahhw
>> hahwh ahwhhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahhw
>>
>>
>
> And why did you think anyone on this group would like to read this?
>

Well, you just did. It's not like I didn't warn you all.


Bertie

[Danny Deger]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.130...
> "Danny Deger" > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> . 130...
>>> Mxsmanic > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Jim Stewart writes:
>>>>
>>>>> http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magazine/fullstory.cfm?id=5846
> &iss
>>>>> ue _title=January%202007
>>>>
>>>> Very interesting ... and much in agreement with some of the things
>>>> I've already mentioned myself (
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> Bwawhahhwhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwha hwhahwhahhwhahwhahhw
>>> hahwh ahwhhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahhw
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And why did you think anyone on this group would like to read this?
>>
>
> Well, you just did. It's not like I didn't warn you all.
>

I did not. I read it but I didn't like it :-)

Danny Deger

>
> Bertie

[Ron Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
> databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
> frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up on
> your GPS, and why?
>
I have the MX20 Moving Map with ChartView coupled to my GNS480.
While I do carry paper enroutes and VFR sectionals with me,
I tend not to look at them. The electronic charts as well
as the 480's database tells me nearly everything I need to know.
That with data accumulated in my preflight planning usually
covers it.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in news:461e5b7b$0$9946
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .130...
>> "Danny Deger" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> . 130...
>>>> Mxsmanic > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Jim Stewart writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magazine/fullstory.cfm?id=5846
>> &iss
>>>>>> ue _title=January%202007
>>>>>
>>>>> Very interesting ... and much in agreement with some of the things
>>>>> I've already mentioned myself (
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
Bwawhahhwhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwha hwhahwhahhwhahwhahhw
>>>> hahwh ahwhhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahhw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And why did you think anyone on this group would like to read this?
>>>
>>
>> Well, you just did. It's not like I didn't warn you all.
>>
>
> I did not. I read it but I didn't like it

Yes you did, you just didn't realise it.


Bertie

[Lou]

Bertie,
Do you fly? I'm serious, I've looked at your profile and I can't
find a single entry that isn't just a rediculous
rambling of ignorance. At tis point Mxsmanic has contibuted a ton more
than you in any of these groups. Quite possibly
you couldn't cut it when you started flight lessons and this is your
way of taking out your anger. If you ever did get
your ticket, I'm sure that those who know you personally, wouldn't
ever get near a plane with you with your attitude. Maybe
you lost your ticket due to a phsyc test. Maybe your wife left you and
took all your RC planes. Although you have made
it clear that single digit I.Q.'s are something for you to aspire to,
but this may not be the way to do that. When I read your
post, 3 words come to mind. Get a life.
Lou

[Lady Pilot[_2_]]

Lou > wrote in news:1176813976.097332.52500
@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

>
> Bertie,
> Do you fly? I'm serious, I've looked at your profile and I can't
> find a single entry that isn't just a rediculous
> rambling of ignorance. At tis point Mxsmanic has contibuted a ton more
> than you in any of these groups. Quite possibly
> you couldn't cut it when you started flight lessons and this is your
> way of taking out your anger. If you ever did get
> your ticket, I'm sure that those who know you personally, wouldn't
> ever get near a plane with you with your attitude. Maybe
> you lost your ticket due to a phsyc test. Maybe your wife left you and
> took all your RC planes. Although you have made
> it clear that single digit I.Q.'s are something for you to aspire to,
> but this may not be the way to do that. When I read your
> post, 3 words come to mind. Get a life.
> Lou
>

Hey! Leave my man alone! Bertie is even more experienced and qualified a
pilot than I am. I'd be thrilled to ride his stick any time he wants.

LP

[Lou]

Oh great, Bertie has multiple personalities.
Lou

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Lou > wrote in news:1176813976.097332.52500
@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

>
> Bertie,
> Do you fly? I'm serious,

What's it matteR?


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Lou > wrote in news:1176841548.384086.279970
@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

> Oh great, Bertie has multiple personalities.
> Lou

Uh, no i don't. I only post using one name and one adress, so you can
easily killfile me if oyu like.


Bertie

[Lady Pilot[_2_]]

Lou > wrote in news:1176841548.384086.279970
@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

> Oh great, Bertie has multiple personalities.
> Lou
>

Wow, Lou! You're even dumber than you look!

But I'll still do you for a good bottle of scotch. Or even a cheap one -
the proof is the same! Wouldn't you rather be Blew Lou than Blue Lou?

Hee hee

LP

[Meaner than you]

yes but inquiring minds want to know if you will ride his stick also......



"Lady Pilot" > wrote in message
...
> Lou > wrote in news:1176841548.384086.279970
> @b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Oh great, Bertie has multiple personalities.
>> Lou
>>
>
> Wow, Lou! You're even dumber than you look!
>
> But I'll still do you for a good bottle of scotch. Or even a cheap one -
> the proof is the same! Wouldn't you rather be Blew Lou than Blue Lou?
>
> Hee hee
>
> LP

[Ed]

I used to have them all ready when I lived in the midwest... in Florida
under IFR flight plan, my routes get changes everytime I change
controllers. I do keep the arrival/departure freqs handy but the VORs I
look up on an as needed basis usually on the low altitude IFR charts.
I find it faster than on the GPS and I can hold them up in front of my
instruments so I can keep up the scan.



wrote:

> In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic > wrote:
>
>>When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
>>databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
>>frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up on
>>your GPS, and why?
>
>
> I do all that and more before I leave the house because that is what
> you are supposed to do.
>
> As to the source, it is a mix of sectional, AF/D, Flight Guide, and
> the AOPA airport diagrams.
>

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 11, 10:57 am, Jim Stewart > wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > When you are flying (and assuming you have a GPS with electronic chart
> > databases), do you usually use paper charts for navigation (looking up
> > frequencies, checking for restricted airspace, etc.) or do you look it up on
> > your GPS, and why?
>
> Read this...
>
> http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magazine/fullstory.cfm?id=5846&issu...

I certainly don't run down the the FBO the day I find my sectional is
out of date. This is especially silly when your flight crosses 3 or 4
sectionals. I'm not going to keep the entire U.S. in my flight bag up
to date. I do ensure my IFR charts are up to date though.

-Robert

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I do ensure my IFR charts are up to date though.

Some of the subscription services are great for this.

I get charts, plates, etc... as they expire and only pay a few bucks
extra for shipping. If it's a "foldable" chart (not an AF/D or NACO
Plate Pack), I only pay $1 shipping through AvShop.

[Jose]

> I get charts, plates, etc... as they expire and only pay a few bucks extra for shipping.

mypilotstore.com has them at a discount, with free shipping. It's what
I do.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Mark Hansen]

On 05/08/07 15:07, Jose wrote:
>> I get charts, plates, etc... as they expire and only pay a few bucks extra for shipping.
>
> mypilotstore.com has them at a discount, with free shipping. It's what
> I do.
>
> Jose

It's even cheaper to get them direct from NACO, but you do have to
pay for the annual subscription in advance.

[Mark Hansen]

On 05/08/07 15:13, Mark Hansen wrote:
> On 05/08/07 15:07, Jose wrote:
>>> I get charts, plates, etc... as they expire and only pay a few bucks extra for shipping.
>>
>> mypilotstore.com has them at a discount, with free shipping. It's what
>> I do.
>>
>> Jose
>
> It's even cheaper to get them direct from NACO, but you do have to
> pay for the annual subscription in advance.

I meant to include that even the shipping on the A/FD is free.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Mark Hansen wrote:
> On 05/08/07 15:13, Mark Hansen wrote:
>> On 05/08/07 15:07, Jose wrote:
>>>> I get charts, plates, etc... as they expire and only pay a few bucks extra for shipping.
>>> mypilotstore.com has them at a discount, with free shipping. It's what
>>> I do.
>>>
>>> Jose
>> It's even cheaper to get them direct from NACO, but you do have to
>> pay for the annual subscription in advance.
>
> I meant to include that even the shipping on the A/FD is free.


Mark,

I found the ordering and subscription site, but wonder if I could ask a
few questions.

Do you use the NACO subscription service?
Do they notify you when a subscription is due to expire or if a shipment
is the last of a subscription?
How's the service?

I use Avshop, but the NACO service you've pointed out is a far better
deal! Thanks for the tips!

[Mark Hansen]

On 05/09/07 04:33, B A R R Y wrote:
> Mark Hansen wrote:
>> On 05/08/07 15:13, Mark Hansen wrote:
>>> On 05/08/07 15:07, Jose wrote:
>>>>> I get charts, plates, etc... as they expire and only pay a few bucks extra for shipping.
>>>> mypilotstore.com has them at a discount, with free shipping. It's what
>>>> I do.
>>>>
>>>> Jose
>>> It's even cheaper to get them direct from NACO, but you do have to
>>> pay for the annual subscription in advance.
>>
>> I meant to include that even the shipping on the A/FD is free.
>
>
> Mark,
>
> I found the ordering and subscription site, but wonder if I could ask a
> few questions.
>
> Do you use the NACO subscription service?

Yes.

> Do they notify you when a subscription is due to expire or if a shipment
> is the last of a subscription?

Well, you pay for the subscription in advance, which is roughly one year
of updates. I'm in my first subscription period now, so I can't say for
sure what they will do when it is up, but the information on their site
says they will notify well in advance such that you'll have time to
re-order and not miss any updates.

> How's the service?

So far, it's been great. I get the products on time - what else is there? :-)

>
> I use Avshop, but the NACO service you've pointed out is a far better
> deal! Thanks for the tips!

I used AVShop as well - for a couple years. However, they increased their
shipping charge on the A/FD to something like 3 to 4 dollars (IIRC) which
seemed outrageous to me.

I asked them about it a couple times and got nowhere, so I switched. Not
only is the NACO subscription cheaper, but the shipping is free (even on
the A/FD!). I don't mind that I have to pay in advance for the subscription,
so it works out really well for me.

Note that there are a couple other services out there that were pointed
out to me when I was looking. The first was skygeek.com. They have
sectionals for $5.99, but then charge $2.00 shipping. I don't remember
what they charged for the A/FD.

The other was mypilotstore.com. They were charging $7.25 for sectionals,
and I'm not sure about a shipping charge.

Best Regards,


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Jose]

>> It's even cheaper to get them direct from NACO, but you do have to
>> pay for the annual subscription in advance.

Got a URL for them?

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting Mark Hansen > wrote:
> On 05/09/07 04:33, B A R R Y wrote:
> > Mark Hansen wrote:

<snip>

> > Do they notify you when a subscription is due to expire or if a shipment
> > is the last of a subscription?

> Well, you pay for the subscription in advance, which is roughly one year
> of updates. I'm in my first subscription period now, so I can't say for
> sure what they will do when it is up, but the information on their site
> says they will notify well in advance such that you'll have time to
> re-order and not miss any updates.

They send you a letter to the same address they send the material.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Mark Hansen]

On 05/09/07 08:07, Jose wrote:
>>> It's even cheaper to get them direct from NACO, but you do have to
>>> pay for the annual subscription in advance.
>
> Got a URL for them?
>
> Jose

<http://naco.faa.gov/ecomp/>


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Jose]

>> mypilotstore.com has them at a discount, with free shipping. It's what
>> I do.
> It's even cheaper to get them direct from NACO, but you do have to
> pay for the annual subscription in advance.

Sectionals:
NACO: $8.60 Free shipping, I think.
mypilotstore: $7.25 Free shipping

Anybody find a better deal?

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Mark Hansen]

On 05/09/07 08:33, Jose wrote:
>>> mypilotstore.com has them at a discount, with free shipping. It's what
>>> I do.
>> It's even cheaper to get them direct from NACO, but you do have to
>> pay for the annual subscription in advance.
>
> Sectionals:
> NACO: $8.60 Free shipping, I think.
> mypilotstore: $7.25 Free shipping
>
> Anybody find a better deal?
>
> Jose

NACO also has the A/FD at $3.10 with free shipping.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 8, 3:07 pm, Jose > wrote:
> > I get charts, plates, etc... as they expire and only pay a few bucks extra for shipping.
>
> mypilotstore.com has them at a discount, with free shipping. It's what
> I do.

Still, I'm not going to keep 6 or 7 sectionals up to date each time I
fly cross country. I usually have updates for my departure point and
destination but for enroute I use whatever I have that is most recent
(at least for VFR). It just doesn't make sense to have to buy so many
charts per flight.

-Robert