Foreign Pilot Getting US Glider Rating

[Papa3]

Folks,

In the past, I've had foreign pilots come to me asking how to get a US
license on the basis of their foreign rating. No problem - fill out
the form, come with me to the FSDO, show your ideas, wait for the
other country to validate. Easy.

Now, we have a person who DOES have a valid, current, foreign rating
wanting to get a US rating NOT based on their existing rating. In
other words, they want to have a standalone US rating. Since they
travel frequently, they want to avoid the potential of having their
foreign rating lapse due to scheduling issues (e.g. being in the US at
the time their medical just lapsed)

So, other than the TSA Foreign Pilot Training paperwork, what else do
we have to worry about. Specifically:

- Does the pilot still have to take some minumum amount of dual
instruction, or could one (theoretically) sign the guy off for solo
after 1 flight?
- Does the pilot still have to have 7 hours of solo flight in the US
before I sign him off for the practical?
- In short, can they just take the written and (assuming they pass)
go right to the practical test, or do they have to spend a bunch of
time with a CFI.

Erik Mann
CFI (who doesn't feel like wading through all of Part 61 to figure
this out)

[Randy[_2_]]

Foreign Glider Pilot Licensing in the United States
Important information from the SSA:
6 August 2002


Non-US glider pilots may still receive reciprocal privileges in the
United States. However, the necessary steps for receiving these
documents has changed as a result of the attacks of September 11th.
New security protocols are in place and the processing system has been
changed to include direct verification of home country privileges as
well as submitting the name of the pilot to law enforcement for
verification of security status.

The general process may take up to 60 days however the SSA has worked
closely with the FAA in an attempt to process applications for glider
pilots as quickly as possible. By following these steps it is possible
that we can assist you to receive confirmation of your documents in a
much shorter timeframe.

Step #1

Complete the application and send it immediately to the FAA address
listed by mail or fax.

Step #2

Advise the SSA by fax (+1 505-392-8154) or e-mail that
you have made application and the dates of your visit. Be sure to
include information how you can be contacted. The preferred method is
e-mail.

Step #3

If your license is issued by your government be sure to send FAA and
SSA information about where to contact your government agency. Again e-
mail and fax are preferred systems.

If your license is issued by your aeroclub then immediately send SSA
information about who in the aeroclub is responsible for licensing and
information about how to contact the office.

Step #4

If you have any questions please feel free to contact the SSA at any
time. You may send us a fax, an e-mail or call by phone. Our job is to
help you receive the proper documents so that you may come to enjoy
our soaring in the United States.

Step #5

Come to the U.S. and fly gliders in the best soaring in the world.

SSA Contact Information:
E-mail
Fax +1 505-392-8154
Telephone +1 505-392-1177

Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating, and Medical
Certification
(information from the Federal Aviation Administration)
Effective July 23, 2002, persons applying for a certificate issued on
the basis of a foreign license under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 61,
Section 61.75, using a pilot certificate issued under 61.75 to apply
for a commercial pilot certificate under the provisions of 14 CFR Part
61, Section 61.123 (h), or applying for an airline transport pilot
certificate issued under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 61, Section
61.153 (d) (3), must have the validity and currency of the foreign
license and medical certificate or endorsement verified by the Civil
Aviation Authority (CAA) that issued those certificates, before making
application for an FAA certificate.

The applicant may submit a legible, hand-written or typewritten letter
with specific information and certain required documents or the
applicant may submit the required information using an optional form
developed by the Airmen Certification Branch. Note this is an
optional form, not an official one, and the applicant chooses whether
to use the form or a letter.

The applicant sends the completed form or letter with appropriate
documents to the Airmen Certification Branch, AFS-760, P.O. Box 25082,
Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0082 or faxes the form or letter and documents
to (405) 954-4105. At this time, the pre-application documents cannot
be sent electronically.

The information submitted to the Airmen Certification Branch by the
applicant must include the following information and documentation:
a. The name of the person.
b. The permanent home address of record of the person. If the person
wishes to have the verification of authenticity letter issued by the
Airmen Certification Branch delivered to a temporary mailing address,
that applicant shall indicate his or her desires on a separate
statement attached to the pre-application form or letter.
c. The country of issuance of the person's foreign pilot license.
d. The location of the FAA Flight Standards District Office where the
person intends to make application for his or her U.S. pilot
certificate. (The applicant will only be able to obtain the U.S.
certificate after authentication from the FSDO he or she specifies.)
A listing of FSDO locations and telephone numbers are available from
our Airmen Related Information menu.
e. A statement that his or her foreign pilot license is not under an
order of suspension or revocation or make the statement on the
Verification of Authenticity form.
f. A legible copy of all pages of the foreign pilot license.
g. A legible English transcription of the foreign pilot license, if
the license is not in English.
h. A legible copy of the foreign medical license/endorsement, as
appropriate.
i. A legible photocopy of a driver's license or passport or other
picture identification.
When verification is received from the CAA, you will receive written
notification that a copy has been forwarded to the Flight Standards
District Office (FSDO) you designated in your request. The
verification is valid for 60 days. You may make application for a U.S.
pilot certificate at the designated FSDO during that 60-day period.
Mailing Address: FAA
Airmen Certification Branch, AFS-760
PO Box 25082
Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0082
FAX number: (405) 954-4105

http://www.ssa.org/sport/foreignpilot.asp

[Papa3]

On Apr 14, 9:39 pm, "Randy" > wrote:
> Foreign Glider Pilot Licensing in the United States
> Important information from the SSA:
> 6 August 2002
>
> Non-US glider pilots may still receive reciprocal privileges in the
> United States. However, the necessary steps for receiving these
> documents has changed as a result of the attacks of September 11th.
> New security protocols are in place and the processing system has been
> changed to include direct verification of home country privileges as
> well as submitting the name of the pilot to law enforcement for
> verification of security status.
>

And there's the rub. That's NOT what we're talking about. This pilot
does not want the reciprocal privileges (i.e. US rating based on
Foreign Rating). This requires that the underlying (Foreign) license
be current in order to exercise the privileges of the US rating.
This (very experienced) Foreign pilot wants to get a US Rating which
is not based on his existing rating.

Another way to ask my question: Does he get to take any shortcuts in
terms of required hours in the US before he can take the Flight Test
based on the hours he has on his Foreign Rating?

P3

[toad]

On Apr 14, 10:42 pm, "Papa3" > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 9:39 pm, "Randy" > wrote:
>
> > Foreign Glider Pilot Licensing in the United States
> > Important information from the SSA:
> > 6 August 2002
>
> > Non-US glider pilots may still receive reciprocal privileges in the
> > United States. However, the necessary steps for receiving these
> > documents has changed as a result of the attacks of September 11th.
> > New security protocols are in place and the processing system has been
> > changed to include direct verification of home country privileges as
> > well as submitting the name of the pilot to law enforcement for
> > verification of security status.
>
> And there's the rub. That's NOT what we're talking about. This pilot
> does not want the reciprocal privileges (i.e. US rating based on
> Foreign Rating). This requires that the underlying (Foreign) license
> be current in order to exercise the privileges of the US rating.
> This (very experienced) Foreign pilot wants to get a US Rating which
> is not based on his existing rating.
>
> Another way to ask my question: Does he get to take any shortcuts in
> terms of required hours in the US before he can take the Flight Test
> based on the hours he has on his Foreign Rating?
>
> P3

Eric,

The FAR's just seems to require that he has the hours logged and
training on the subjects for part 61.whatever, they don't say anything
about requiring the training to be in the US. I guess the fundamental
question is if the foreign training counts. Only the FSDO will know
that one.

Todd

[BT]

I'll do some more research. But for the Private Glider rating, he must meet
the requirements of 61.103, 61.105, 61.107(b)(6), 61.109(f)(1).

Basically if he wants a USA (FAA) pilot rating without relying on his
foreign rating he must meet all of the training requirements, take the
written test and a complete FAA check ride as if he had never flown before.

I do not see where you get the numbers for hours you quote below.
AFAIK, there is no minimum hours to solo for glider.. however, 61.109(f)(1)
states, total of 10 hours in gliders, that include at least 20 flights in
the areas of study under 61.107(b)(6) including at least 3 flights with the
instructor 60 days prior to the practical and 2 hours of solo time with not
less than 10 launches AND landings.

61.105(a) says he needs to log ground training in preparation for the
written test and be signed off to take the test.

BT

"Papa3" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Folks,
>
> In the past, I've had foreign pilots come to me asking how to get a US
> license on the basis of their foreign rating. No problem - fill out
> the form, come with me to the FSDO, show your ideas, wait for the
> other country to validate. Easy.
>
> Now, we have a person who DOES have a valid, current, foreign rating
> wanting to get a US rating NOT based on their existing rating. In
> other words, they want to have a standalone US rating. Since they
> travel frequently, they want to avoid the potential of having their
> foreign rating lapse due to scheduling issues (e.g. being in the US at
> the time their medical just lapsed)
>
> So, other than the TSA Foreign Pilot Training paperwork, what else do
> we have to worry about. Specifically:
>
> - Does the pilot still have to take some minumum amount of dual
> instruction, or could one (theoretically) sign the guy off for solo
> after 1 flight?
> - Does the pilot still have to have 7 hours of solo flight in the US
> before I sign him off for the practical?
> - In short, can they just take the written and (assuming they pass)
> go right to the practical test, or do they have to spend a bunch of
> time with a CFI.
>
> Erik Mann
> CFI (who doesn't feel like wading through all of Part 61 to figure
> this out)
>

[BT]

True... he can have the solo hours already covered.

Based on my previous reply, it may not need be all "US". I'm sure the
required training for the endorsements needed from the recommending CFI need
to be covered by that CFI.
BT


>
> The FAR's just seems to require that he has the hours logged and
> training on the subjects for part 61.whatever, they don't say anything
> about requiring the training to be in the US. I guess the fundamental
> question is if the foreign training counts. Only the FSDO will know
> that one.
>
> Todd
>

[Ed Winchester]

BT wrote:
> I'll do some more research. But for the Private Glider rating, he must meet
> the requirements of 61.103, 61.105, 61.107(b)(6), 61.109(f)(1).
>
> Basically if he wants a USA (FAA) pilot rating without relying on his
> foreign rating he must meet all of the training requirements, take the
> written test and a complete FAA check ride as if he had never flown before.
>
> I do not see where you get the numbers for hours you quote below.
> AFAIK, there is no minimum hours to solo for glider.. however, 61.109(f)(1)
> states, total of 10 hours in gliders, that include at least 20 flights in
> the areas of study under 61.107(b)(6) including at least 3 flights with the
> instructor 60 days prior to the practical and 2 hours of solo time with not
> less than 10 launches AND landings.
>
> 61.105(a) says he needs to log ground training in preparation for the
> written test and be signed off to take the test.
>
> BT
>
> "Papa3" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Folks,
>>
>>In the past, I've had foreign pilots come to me asking how to get a US
>>license on the basis of their foreign rating. No problem - fill out
>>the form, come with me to the FSDO, show your ideas, wait for the
>>other country to validate. Easy.
>>
>>Now, we have a person who DOES have a valid, current, foreign rating
>>wanting to get a US rating NOT based on their existing rating. In
>>other words, they want to have a standalone US rating. Since they
>>travel frequently, they want to avoid the potential of having their
>>foreign rating lapse due to scheduling issues (e.g. being in the US at
>>the time their medical just lapsed)
>>
>>So, other than the TSA Foreign Pilot Training paperwork, what else do
>>we have to worry about. Specifically:
>>
>>- Does the pilot still have to take some minumum amount of dual
>>instruction, or could one (theoretically) sign the guy off for solo
>>after 1 flight?
>>- Does the pilot still have to have 7 hours of solo flight in the US
>>before I sign him off for the practical?
>>- In short, can they just take the written and (assuming they pass)
>>go right to the practical test, or do they have to spend a bunch of
>>time with a CFI.
>>
>>Erik Mann
>>CFI (who doesn't feel like wading through all of Part 61 to figure
>>this out)
>>
>
>
>
Erik, I agree with your interpretation of the FARs, except for one
thing. It doesn't say anywhere in there that _all_ that instruction has
to be done in the US. I think the part about 3 flights in the last 90
days in specific preparation for the flight test would have to be done
here, and the ground instruction for the written test prep. All the
flights and time to meet the experience requirements could come from
anywhere.

Ed (CFI)

[Burt Compton - Marfa]

On Apr 14, 7:26�pm, "Papa3" > wrote:
> Folks,
>
>> Now, we have a person who DOES have a valid, current, foreign rating
> wanting to get a US rating NOT based on their existing rating. *In
> other words, they want to have a standalone US rating. * Since they
> travel frequently, they want to avoid the potential of having their
> foreign rating lapse due to scheduling issues (e.g. being in the US at
> the time their medical just lapsed)
>
> So, other than the TSA Foreign Pilot Training paperwork,


Note: TSA means Transportation Security Administration, NOT Texas
Soaring Association!

My understanding is that for foreign individuals seeking instruction /
rating in gliders, the TSA exemption found at
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf90/302470_web.pdf
eliminates the need for the background check and other requirements.
To hack a quote from the TSA exemption document: "TSA is granting an
exemption . . . to individuals who apply for instruction in the
operation of . . . gliders"

Our Soaring Society of America (in "the land of the free", etc.) made
this happen for us by working with TSA to exempt gliders (if you've
been asking what the SSA has done for you lately.) www.ssa.org also
has a copy of the TSA exemption document.

This exemption also excuses CFI-G's from the "security awareness
training", but not if you are also a current CFI in airplanes (even if
you no longer teach in airplanes.) More info on this CFI (airplane /
rotary wing) security awareness training is at the AOPA website www.aopa.org

Note: As this applies to foreign glider students, this is my
understanding, not the official word. Check with your FAA FSDO for
their interpretation. Then again, FAA has little to do with this -
it's the TSA's domain. However I think the TSA exemption is clear.
Print copies of the TSA exemption document and keep them handy if the
TSA "men in black" visit your soaring site (I operate near the US
border - I've been visited twice.) Again, here is the document
directly from the TSA source:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf90/302470_web.pdf

The text regarding glider students and CFI's is on the second page,
paragraphs 2 & 3.

Thanks again to the SSA for this exemption! This was one of Larry
Sanderson's last efforts as SSA President. The exemption took effect
later, while Dennis Wright was our Executive Director, and he
broadcast the good news.

Burt
Marfa Gliders
www.flygliders.com

[Tony Verhulst]

>> The FAR's just seems to require that he has the hours logged and
>> training on the subjects for part 61.whatever, they don't say anything
>> about requiring the training to be in the US. I guess the fundamental
>> question is if the foreign training counts. Only the FSDO will know
>> that one.

My club has a member with the Dutch equivalent of a recreational pilot
rating. Since, unlike a private or commercial rating, that is not
internationally recognized, he got nowhere with the FAA. Since he will
be here for a few years, he took (wrote, to you Brits :-) ) the US
knowledge test, got the required instructional flights required to
prepare for the test (FAR 61.39), and passed his US private pilot
practical test with flying colors. Prior to that, he'd been flying (in
the US) on a student pilot license.

US pilots should understand that if they have a sport/recreational
rating, that it may not be recognized abroad either.

Tony V. CFI-G
P.S. I signed his license application (form 8710-1)

[Burt Compton - Marfa]

On Apr 15, 10:17�am, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
> >> The FAR's just seems to require that he has the hours logged and
> >> training on the subjects for part 61.whatever, they don't say anything
> >> about requiring the training to be in the US. *I guess the fundamental
> >> question is if the foreign training counts. *

Yes, the foreign training hours count but the recommending CFI that
signs at the top of the back of the FAA Form 8710-1 Airman Certificate
Application needs to be a US / Current Certificated Flight Instructor,
who has "personally instructed" the applicant. It says that on the
Form 8710-1. That would mean to me the "at least 3 training flights
within the past 60 days" (not 90 days as someone else posted!) The
foreign hours logged certainly count but the formal ground & flight
training to US FAR's, procedures, chart reading, etc. are essential.
It's the quality of the hours / what was studied. They likely do it
different "over there".

There are other endorsements required in the applicant's logbook
including the launch endorsement. Your Examiner will be looking for
these - found in the FAR's (including the one in 61.39 - the "hidden
endorsement". ) The new SSA / SSF Glider Pilot Logbook has these
endorsements pre-printed in the back.

Getting this critical information from rec.aviation.soaring is a bit
risky. Read the FAR's and the Instructions for the FAA Form 8710-1
Application.

Burt
Marfa

[toad]

On Apr 15, 3:30 pm, "Burt Compton - Marfa" > wrote:
> On Apr 15, 10:17?am, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
>
> > >> The FAR's just seems to require that he has the hours logged and
> > >> training on the subjects for part 61.whatever, they don't say anything
> > >> about requiring the training to be in the US. ?I guess the fundamental
> > >> question is if the foreign training counts. ?
>
> Yes, the foreign training hours count but the recommending CFI that
> signs at the top of the back of the FAA Form 8710-1 Airman Certificate
> Application needs to be a US / Current Certificated Flight Instructor,
> who has "personally instructed" the applicant. It says that on the
> Form 8710-1. That would mean to me the "at least 3 training flights
> within the past 60 days" (not 90 days as someone else posted!) The
> foreign hours logged certainly count but the formal ground & flight
> training to US FAR's, procedures, chart reading, etc. are essential.
> It's the quality of the hours / what was studied. They likely do it
> different "over there".
>
> There are other endorsements required in the applicant's logbook
> including the launch endorsement. Your Examiner will be looking for
> these - found in the FAR's (including the one in 61.39 - the "hidden
> endorsement". ) The new SSA / SSF Glider Pilot Logbook has these
> endorsements pre-printed in the back.
>
> Getting this critical information from rec.aviation.soaring is a bit
> risky. Read the FAR's and the Instructions for the FAA Form 8710-1
> Application.
>
> Burt
> Marfa

I understood about the instructor that endorses the pilot for the
practical test has to do the "preparation" flights. What I had looked
for in the FAR/AIM is the wording that allows foreign flight
instruction to count in the US. But a closer reading shows that the 3
flights in preparation are the ONLY flight instruction required for a
private glider ! The rest of the time just has to be logged flight
time, solo is fine.

Todd Smith
3S