Been taken over?

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

I asked my instructor on the weekend what a pilot is expected to do, should
he come across a downed plane, or was in the vicinity on another plane that
was going down, or making a forced landing.
He said that you should tune to the relevant ATC frequency, and inform them
of what has/is happening, and where you are. He then said that the head
controller would come on the radio and inform you he is taking control of
your aircraft, and instruct you to remain in the area. He said you are not
to leave the area unless you are running low on fuel yourself. He said that
the controller would dispatch a helicopter to the area to land near the
wreck/downed a/c. He also said that you would be paid for your time whilst
you are holding position.
My instructor said this exact scenario happened to him once.
Anyone else had a similar experience?
Crash Lander

--
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong!

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Crash Lander" > wrote in message
...
>
> I asked my instructor on the weekend what a pilot is expected to do,
> should he come across a downed plane, or was in the vicinity on another
> plane that was going down, or making a forced landing.
> He said that you should tune to the relevant ATC frequency, and inform
> them of what has/is happening, and where you are. He then said that the
> head controller would come on the radio and inform you he is taking
> control of your aircraft, and instruct you to remain in the area. He said
> you are not to leave the area unless you are running low on fuel yourself.
> He said that the controller would dispatch a helicopter to the area to
> land near the wreck/downed a/c. He also said that you would be paid for
> your time whilst you are holding position.
> My instructor said this exact scenario happened to him once.
> Anyone else had a similar experience?
>

I've been a controller for over 23 years and I've never heard of such a
procedure.

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
news:G9BUh.752
> I've been a controller for over 23 years and I've never heard of such a
> procedure.

Interesting how things are done differently in different countries. Here is
a reply from an Australian controller from this same thread I posted in
aus.aviation.

Crash,
Mostly right - advise ATC what you have seen. We will ask a few
questions to get as much info as we can. This will be passed to AUSSAR
in Canberra who organise search and rescue. It can be helpful if you can
remain in the area.
If we have an in flight emergency, we will ask suitable aircraft if they
are able to divert to provide assistance. The Operations Director in
Brisbane or Melbourne centre is authorised to requisition aircraft,
however, we prefer to ask than direct. Most pilots we ask are only too
happy to help, as it could be them one day needing assistance. Costs
incurred in either case will be paid by Airservices or AUSSAR.
AA

Crash Lander

[joe]

On Apr 15, 9:22 pm, "Crash Lander" > wrote:
> I
This is BULL A controller has no authority to "take control of
your aircraft" in the U.S. Just say unable........ Hell an FAA
inspector can't even delay you for a ramp check...
joe

[Andrew Gideon]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 03:33:56 +0000, Crash Lander wrote:

> It can be helpful if you can remain in the
> area.

There's a big difference between this and "take over the aircraft". I
agree that most pilots would be quite willing to provide whatever
assistance they could consistent with their own safety etc.

I'm not quite sure how much help aircraft can be, but one never knows (ie.
perhaps they've a working transceiver on the ground).

- Andrew

[Kingfish]

On Apr 15, 10:26 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll" >
wrote:
>
> I've been a controller for over 23 years and I've never heard of such a
> procedure.

Hi Steve, are you in a TRACON or Center? Which facility? I got a taste
of international ATC last week flying charters in the Caribbean. On a
trip from San Juan to Mustique we talked to SJ Approach/Center,
Juliano (French), VC Bird (Antigua) and Piarco (Trinidad). The last
controller didn't have radar and relied on our position reports. Thank
God for onboard TCAS.

[ArtP]

I was on a demo ride in a Columbia when ATC told us they lost contact
with an airplane in our area who indicated he had an emergency. They
wanted us to look for the plane. We found it in a field and reported
it. We were told to remain in the area until another plane arrived. We
did.

I don't know whether we could have legally been forced to help in the
search but it really doesn't matter. What are you going to say, "you
can't make me so go find the downed plane by yourself?" I would like
to think that in an emergency pilots will help each other out without
being required to.

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-04-16 08:07:47 -0700, "joe" > said:

> On Apr 15, 9:22 pm, "Crash Lander" > wrote:
>> I
> This is BULL A controller has no authority to "take control of
> your aircraft" in the U.S. Just say unable........ Hell an FAA
> inspector can't even delay you for a ramp check...
> joe

Eh, I don't think he was posting from the US. :-)

Here in the US of A "pilot in command" means just that.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Blanche]

Andrew Gideon > wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 03:33:56 +0000, Crash Lander wrote:
>
>> It can be helpful if you can remain in the
>> area.
>
>There's a big difference between this and "take over the aircraft". I
>agree that most pilots would be quite willing to provide whatever
>assistance they could consistent with their own safety etc.
>
>I'm not quite sure how much help aircraft can be, but one never knows (ie.
>perhaps they've a working transceiver on the ground).

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone on the ground can
"take over" an aircraft..but that's besides the point.

I live in the Rocky Mountain area - that place with all the forest
fires from Mexico north into Canada? We're asked to report lat/long
or radial/distance to a reporting point if we see smoke on the
ground. And we're also asked to STAY AWAY from existing fire TFRs.

[Mxsmanic]

C J Campbell writes:

> Here in the US of A "pilot in command" means just that.

Thank goodness.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Kingfish" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Hi Steve, are you in a TRACON or Center? Which facility? I got a taste
> of international ATC last week flying charters in the Caribbean. On a
> trip from San Juan to Mustique we talked to SJ Approach/Center,
> Juliano (French), VC Bird (Antigua) and Piarco (Trinidad). The last
> controller didn't have radar and relied on our position reports. Thank
> God for onboard TCAS.
>

I've been at Green Bay ATCT/TRACON for the past fourteen years, I was at
Chicago ARTCC for nine years prior.

[Dana M. Hague]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:22:19 GMT, "Crash Lander" >
wrote:

>I asked my instructor on the weekend what a pilot is expected to do, should
>he come across a downed plane, or was in the vicinity on another plane that
>was going down, or making a forced landing.
>He said that you should tune to the relevant ATC frequency, and inform them...

As a matter of fact this happened to me, but there was no urgency.
This was around 30 years ago.

A student pilot took off cross country into bad weather (sleet and
freezing rain) from NY's Orange County Airport (MGJ), despite attempts
by others to talk him out of it. Since he owned his own plane nobody
could stop him. Apparently he was in town to finalize his divorce and
wanted to get home. The plane disappeared, prompting what was
described as the largest ground/air search in NY history, but nothing
was found.

About a week later I rented a Cherokee from Quade's Flight School at
MGJ (I recall being irked that the newspapers reported me as a
"student pilot") and took my father for a ride. Passing over a ridge,
I saw something I took for a patch of snow, but Dad asked me to circle
around, and sure enough, it was a plane, just below the crest of the
ridge. I called the airport's Unicom and asked the colors of the
missing plane. After some delay, we were able to confirm that this
was the plane and not an old wreck... I reported the position (VOR
radial where it crossed the ridge, no GPS back then) and headed back
to the airport.

Later investigation revealed that the pilot survived the crash but was
trapped in the wreckage with a broken leg. There was no post crash
fire; apparently he lit a fire to keep warm some time later... and
died of smoke inhalation. Judging from the direction he was going and
location where he hit, I surmise he had turned around and was heading
back... too late.

-Dana

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[Crash Lander[_1_]]

Wow, sad story. He survived the crash to be killed by smoke inhalation!
Crash Lander

--
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong!
"Dana M. Hague" <d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:22:19 GMT, "Crash Lander" >
> wrote:
>
>>I asked my instructor on the weekend what a pilot is expected to do,
>>should
>>he come across a downed plane, or was in the vicinity on another plane
>>that
>>was going down, or making a forced landing.
>>He said that you should tune to the relevant ATC frequency, and inform
>>them...
>
> As a matter of fact this happened to me, but there was no urgency.
> This was around 30 years ago.
>
> A student pilot took off cross country into bad weather (sleet and
> freezing rain) from NY's Orange County Airport (MGJ), despite attempts
> by others to talk him out of it. Since he owned his own plane nobody
> could stop him. Apparently he was in town to finalize his divorce and
> wanted to get home. The plane disappeared, prompting what was
> described as the largest ground/air search in NY history, but nothing
> was found.
>
> About a week later I rented a Cherokee from Quade's Flight School at
> MGJ (I recall being irked that the newspapers reported me as a
> "student pilot") and took my father for a ride. Passing over a ridge,
> I saw something I took for a patch of snow, but Dad asked me to circle
> around, and sure enough, it was a plane, just below the crest of the
> ridge. I called the airport's Unicom and asked the colors of the
> missing plane. After some delay, we were able to confirm that this
> was the plane and not an old wreck... I reported the position (VOR
> radial where it crossed the ridge, no GPS back then) and headed back
> to the airport.
>
> Later investigation revealed that the pilot survived the crash but was
> trapped in the wreckage with a broken leg. There was no post crash
> fire; apparently he lit a fire to keep warm some time later... and
> died of smoke inhalation. Judging from the direction he was going and
> location where he hit, I surmise he had turned around and was heading
> back... too late.
>
> -Dana
>
> --
> --
> If replying by email, please make the obvious changes.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help Wanted: Telepath. You know where to apply.