3rd class medical urinalysis?

[Finn]

Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon

[Rip]

Finn wrote:
> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon
>
Assume that you are ;-)

[Walt]

On Apr 16, 1:05 pm, "Finn" > wrote:
> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon

I've always assumed it included drug screening.

I'm taking my 3rd-class medical tomorrow (Tuesday).

--Walt
Bozeman

[Viperdoc]

Drug screen is not part of the FAA pilot's exam.

JN, MD
FAA AME

[Peter R.]

On 4/16/2007 3:06:02 PM, "Finn" wrote:

> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon

Just had my 3rd class medical here in the Northeast US and I am pretty sure
my urine analysis was to determine blood sugar levels only. The doctor
inserted a strip into the urine, read the number, then gave me back the
sample and instructed me to toss it.

When I asked him how my blood sugar reading looked, he admitted that it
looked normal.


--
Peter

[Rip]

Finn wrote:

> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon
>
Seriously, the urinalysis is, I believe, a simple sugar test to detect
the potential for diabetes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Finn, if you're concerned about the test, don't fly. There are cheaper
ways to suicide than to fly on medications, illicit or otherwise.

[Rich Ahrens]

Finn wrote:
> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon

Per AOPA:

Does a third class medical examination include any type of drug testing?

No. Your AME will not be testing for illicit drugs during a flight
physical. A routine part of the FAA medical exam is a urinalysis to
check for sugar or protein, indicators of possible diabetes or kidney
disease. Even as a commercial pilot participating in the DOT/FAA drug
testing program, a drug test is done independent of an aviation medical
examination. Your AME may also be a medical review officer for a drug
testing company, but when conducting a flight physical, he/she will not
test you for illicit drugs.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Walt wrote:
> On Apr 16, 1:05 pm, "Finn" > wrote:
>> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
>> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests.
>> I've tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon
>
> I've always assumed it included drug screening.
>
> I'm taking my 3rd-class medical tomorrow (Tuesday).
>
> --Walt
> Bozeman

YOu have assumed wrong they are checking your sugar levels. There isn't a
drug screen in the class 3 medical testing and there is no enabling law if
they wanted to.

[Andrew Gideon]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:05:59 -0700, Finn wrote:

> wondering if I will be subject
> to a drug-screen urinalysis

Hmm. This really should be one of those "if you have to ask, you can't"
questions.

- Andrew

[Peter R.]

On 4/16/2007 4:42:31 PM, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrote:

> YOu have assumed wrong they are checking your sugar levels.

Missing punctuation caused me to read your sentence a few times before I
understood your point. :)

--
Peter

[Sylvain]

Walt wrote:

> I've always assumed it included drug screening.

if they did, they would charge you for the extra test,
haven't seen that on my bill yet. For the third class,
I reckon they just check whether your urine caramelises
or not...

--Sylvain

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 7:05 am, "Finn" > wrote:
> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon

Finn

Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
might worry about a drug screen are:
1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
being a good pilot
2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
impair his/her ability to fly

If niether of these apply to you, then are you trolling? Some may
think that drug use may only be picked up during a medical but that is
not the case. If you read FAR 91.17 carefully I think you will see
that a drug test can be performed anytime you fly an aircraft -if any
administrator or police officer has a suspicion you may be using drugs
or alcohol. But flying is a big enough high all by ityself so why
would you want to use drugs... (Why not spend the $ on actual
flight?).

Cheers

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 16, 1:42 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
wrote:
> Walt wrote:
> > On Apr 16, 1:05 pm, "Finn" > wrote:
> >> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
> >> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests.
> >> I've tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon
>
> > I've always assumed it included drug screening.
>
> > I'm taking my 3rd-class medical tomorrow (Tuesday).
>
> > --Walt
> > Bozeman
>
> YOu have assumed wrong they are checking your sugar levels. There isn't a
> drug screen in the class 3 medical testing and there is no enabling law if
> they wanted to.

That's why I never eat or drink anything other than water before the
test. After a meal your blood suger will read higher. It would really
be crappy to fail that little test and spend 6 months trying to prove
to the FAA that you are not diabetic.

-Robert

[Don Tuite]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:16:56 -0700, Sylvain > wrote:

>Walt wrote:
>
>> I've always assumed it included drug screening.
>
>if they did, they would charge you for the extra test,
>haven't seen that on my bill yet. For the third class,
>I reckon they just check whether your urine caramelises
>or not...
>
Or just that it's warm and yellow.

Don

[Mxsmanic]

Peter R. writes:

> Just had my 3rd class medical here in the Northeast US and I am pretty sure
> my urine analysis was to determine blood sugar levels only.

They're supposed to look at protein levels also. This is the same as a normal
physical exam.

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[Mxsmanic]

Rip writes:

> Seriously, the urinalysis is, I believe, a simple sugar test to detect
> the potential for diabetes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Glycosuria (glucose in the urine, usually an indicator of diabetes mellitus),
and proteinuria (protein in the urine, occasionally an indicator of kidney
disease if there's more than a trace).

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[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> That's why I never eat or drink anything other than water before the
> test. After a meal your blood suger will read higher.

Your blood glucose will be higher, but normally there will be no glucose in
your urine unless you ate a truly massive or very sweet meal. Fasting
shouldn't be necessary if you are not diabetic. However, it certainly doesn't
hurt to fast.

Additionally, drinking water is a good idea, since very concentrated urine may
have more of a trace of protein in it, especially under some circumstances
(such as if you've been recently exercising a lot). Protein will raise
questions, too, if there's more than a trace.

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[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
> might worry about a drug screen are:
> 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
> being a good pilot
> 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
> impair his/her ability to fly

Eating bagels made with poppy seeds can give you a positive drug test, even
though you've taken no drugs. For that matter, taking aspirin or vitamin C
before the test can make it look positive for glucose, too.

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[Gig 601XL Builder]

Peter R. wrote:
> On 4/16/2007 4:42:31 PM, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrote:
>
>> YOu have assumed wrong they are checking your sugar levels.
>
> Missing punctuation caused me to read your sentence a few times
> before I understood your point. :)

Sorry, I see your point and my lack of one.

[Andrew Gideon]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:27:37 -0700, Robert M. Gary wrote:

> That's why I never eat or drink anything other than water before the test.

I always drink extra coffee before the medical. I'd be terribly
embarrassed to have no pulse (not to mention that it might be
disqualifying), and coffee really gets my heart going.

- Andrew

[Sylvain]

wrote:

> Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
> might worry about a drug screen are:
> 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
> being a good pilot
> 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
> impair his/her ability to fly
>
> If niether of these apply to you, then are you trolling?

Do you have teenage kids or live near some or spend some time on campus
(just to name a few obvious hazards but same goes if any of your
acquaintances smokes any); just walking in a room where someone has
smoked pot is enough for you to test positive; think about it if
your job depends on peeing in a cup once in a while...

Then there is the assumption that the tests don't fail (all tests
give either false negatives or false positives to some extents); do
you know for sure the list of substances -- many perfectly legitimate
-- that you might be using that could trigger a false positive?

--Sylvain

[Mxsmanic]

Andrew Gideon writes:

> I always drink extra coffee before the medical. I'd be terribly
> embarrassed to have no pulse (not to mention that it might be
> disqualifying), and coffee really gets my heart going.

Coffee and the caffeine it contains can raise blood pressure and cause
diuresis.

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[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Rip writes:

> > Seriously, the urinalysis is, I believe, a simple sugar test to detect
> > the potential for diabetes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

> Glycosuria (glucose in the urine, usually an indicator of diabetes mellitus),
> and proteinuria (protein in the urine, occasionally an indicator of kidney
> disease if there's more than a trace).

Microsoft Doctor Simulator?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Judah]

wrote in :

> Mxsmanic > wrote:
>> Rip writes:
>
>> > Seriously, the urinalysis is, I believe, a simple sugar test to
>> > detect the potential for diabetes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>> Glycosuria (glucose in the urine, usually an indicator of diabetes
>> mellitus), and proteinuria (protein in the urine, occasionally an
>> indicator of kidney disease if there's more than a trace).
>
> Microsoft Doctor Simulator?


Yes. Here he is again.

http://www.mccullagh.org/db9/9/operation-game.jpg

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Apr 17, 7:05 am, "Finn" > wrote:
>> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
>> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
>> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon
>
> Finn
>
> Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
> might worry about a drug screen are:
> 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
> being a good pilot
> 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
> impair his/her ability to fly
>

Or, 3) He's really worried about the prostrate exam but is too shy to ask
about it so he asked about the drug screen instead?

:-)

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Viperdoc[_3_]]

Stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
..

[Newps]

Robert M. Gary wrote:


>
> That's why I never eat or drink anything other than water before the
> test. After a meal your blood suger will read higher. It would really
> be crappy to fail that little test and spend 6 months trying to prove
> to the FAA that you are not diabetic.


I've had this discussion with my AME. Eat a cup of pure cane sugar a
few hours before the test and it wouldn't matter.

[Mxsmanic]

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> writes:

> Or, 3) He's really worried about the prostrate exam but is too shy to ask
> about it so he asked about the drug screen instead?

Is a DRE part of an aviation medical exam?

--
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[Don Tuite]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 19:35:33 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote:

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>> On Apr 17, 7:05 am, "Finn" > wrote:
>>> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
>>> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
>>> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon
>>
>> Finn
>>
>> Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
>> might worry about a drug screen are:
>> 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
>> being a good pilot
>> 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
>> impair his/her ability to fly
>>
>
>Or, 3) He's really worried about the prostrate exam but is too shy to ask
>about it so he asked about the drug screen instead?
>
It really pays to bring your own lubricant and keep it warm. Most
experienced pilots use Marvel Mystery Oil, although some swear by
Pledge.

Don

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

I once had to have a medical exam as part of a job application. I made the
mistake of eating McDonalds for lunch about 20 minutes before the exam. I
had 2 burgers, large fries, and a large coke. My urine sugar levels were
through the roof.
Crash Lander

--
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong!
"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>
>>
>> That's why I never eat or drink anything other than water before the
>> test. After a meal your blood suger will read higher. It would really
>> be crappy to fail that little test and spend 6 months trying to prove
>> to the FAA that you are not diabetic.
>
>
> I've had this discussion with my AME. Eat a cup of pure cane sugar a few
> hours before the test and it wouldn't matter.
>
>

[Mxsmanic]

Crash Lander writes:

> I once had to have a medical exam as part of a job application. I made the
> mistake of eating McDonalds for lunch about 20 minutes before the exam. I
> had 2 burgers, large fries, and a large coke. My urine sugar levels were
> through the roof.

Technically there should be no glucose in your urine at any time. But
everyone has a threshold beyond which something will spill over. If there was
more than a trace of glucose in your urine, it wouldn't hurt to get a GTT to
check for glucose intolerance or DM, if you haven't already done so. Just be
glad it didn't happen for an aviation medical.

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[Viperdoc[_4_]]

Look it up.

[Dave S]

Your blood sugar is a separate matter from urine glucose levels. This is
unnecessary unless you already ARE a diabetic in which case you've got
bigger problems than a 3rd class medical.

Typically glucose does not "spill" into the urine unless your blood
glucose exceeds 200-250. Normal is in the 80-100 range, and its not
uncommon to find diabetics on tight control who keep their sugar under 120.

ANY detectable glucose in the urine means your blood glucose is too
high. Your blood glucose wont get THAT high regardless of your intake
unless you have ineffective glucose production or utilization.

I would bet your doc can tell you are fasting when you take your test.
When you dont consume glucose, you burn fat, which causes ketones to be
produced. Ketones are READILY excreted in urine, and are also tested for
on pretty much any urinalysis or urine dip/screening.

Dave

>
> That's why I never eat or drink anything other than water before the
> test. After a meal your blood suger will read higher. It would really
> be crappy to fail that little test and spend 6 months trying to prove
> to the FAA that you are not diabetic.
>
> -Robert
>

[Peter Dohm]

>
> > I always drink extra coffee before the medical. I'd be terribly
> > embarrassed to have no pulse (not to mention that it might be
> > disqualifying), and coffee really gets my heart going.
>
> Coffee and the caffeine it contains can raise blood pressure and cause
> diuresis.
>
Now who to copy if I ever want to pose as a humorless schmuck!

[steve[_1_]]

Not that this would be an issue for me, but when I went for my class III
medical last year, they only checked for diabetes in the urine.

I don't know about class II or I medicals.

Steve

"Finn" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon
>

[Mxsmanic]

Dave S writes:

> I would bet your doc can tell you are fasting when you take your test.

There's nothing wrong with fasting. Indeed, a fasting glucose level is more
important than a postprandial level for diagnosis of DM and late complications
of hyperglycemia.

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[Jim Macklin]

They only check for sugar and blood as far as I know, unless
you report some other issue. Drug screening is done by
employers and after accidents.


"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
et...
| Drug screen is not part of the FAA pilot's exam.
|
| JN, MD
| FAA AME
|
|

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 16, 2:16 pm, Sylvain > wrote:
> Walt wrote:
> > I've always assumed it included drug screening.
>
> if they did, they would charge you for the extra test,
> haven't seen that on my bill yet. For the third class,
> I reckon they just check whether your urine caramelises
> or not...
>
> --Sylvain

That's true. The 135 guys are paying a lot of money for the FAA
required drug test. They also have to pay for the drug test for the
A&P, the avionics guys and the IA that does their inspections. One guy
with one airplane has to pay for about 5 drug tests if he wan'ts to be
135.

-Robert

[DR]

Sylvain wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
>> might worry about a drug screen are:
>> 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
>> being a good pilot
>> 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
>> impair his/her ability to fly
>>
>> If niether of these apply to you, then are you trolling?
>
> Do you have teenage kids or live near some or spend some time on campus
> (just to name a few obvious hazards but same goes if any of your
> acquaintances smokes any); just walking in a room where someone has
> smoked pot is enough for you to test positive; think about it if
> your job depends on peeing in a cup once in a while...

Sounds like an urban myth to me. Is that the excuse your teenage
children gave you for their positive test ;-)

Cheers

[Kingfish]

On Apr 16, 5:50 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>
> Eating bagels made with poppy seeds can give you a positive drug test, even
> though you've taken no drugs.


Old urban myth. You'd have to eat many bagels (or just scarf down a
few handfuls of seeds) to test positive.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Sylvain wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
>> might worry about a drug screen are:
>> 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her
>> from being a good pilot
>> 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
>> impair his/her ability to fly
>>
>> If niether of these apply to you, then are you trolling?
>
> Do you have teenage kids or live near some or spend some time on
> campus (just to name a few obvious hazards but same goes if any of
> your acquaintances smokes any); just walking in a room where someone
> has smoked pot is enough for you to test positive; think about it if
> your job depends on peeing in a cup once in a while...
>
> Then there is the assumption that the tests don't fail (all tests
> give either false negatives or false positives to some extents); do
> you know for sure the list of substances -- many perfectly legitimate
> -- that you might be using that could trigger a false positive?
>
> --Sylvain

I have a lot of employees and would be employees that take drug screens for
the companies I represent and have spent a lot of time dealing with the
results and I'd be tickled to death if you could find me any proof that just
being in a room with a pot smoker is enough to make you test positive much
less being in one where someone has smoked in the past. If you test positive
for pot you got enough in you to get high.

You are right about the tests failing. Especially the quick tests. They fail
at a rate close to 50% both false positives and negatives that's why we
stopped using them. We use a lab with a mass spectrometer that could
probably tell what you had for dinner last Thursday. And a positive is a
positive only after a medical review officer talks to the tested individual
and finds out all the legal substances that they could have ingested that
might give a false positive.

Drug screens aren't perfect but the ones properly done are as close as we
can get right now.

BTW, I don't remember who in the thread mentioned it but the poppy seed
false positive is an urban myth.

[Mxsmanic]

Kingfish writes:

> Old urban myth. You'd have to eat many bagels (or just scarf down a
> few handfuls of seeds) to test positive.

Unfortunately, it's no myth. People have been fired and denied jobs because
of a positive drug test that resulted from eating poppy seeds. Sometimes just
one bagel with poppy seeds can do it. See

http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp

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[Mxsmanic]

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

> BTW, I don't remember who in the thread mentioned it but the poppy seed
> false positive is an urban myth.

Nope. See

http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp

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[Gig 601XL Builder]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>
>> BTW, I don't remember who in the thread mentioned it but the poppy
>> seed false positive is an urban myth.
>
> Nope. See
>
> http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp

Read the last paragraph. Our testing lab uses 2500 ng/ml. Which is higher
than the one snopes quotes as the corrective action.

[Sylvain]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:

> You are right about the tests failing. Especially the quick tests. They
> fail at a rate close to 50% both false positives and negatives that's why
> we stopped using them. We use a lab with a mass spectrometer that could
> probably tell what you had for dinner last Thursday. And a positive is a
> positive only after a medical review officer talks to the tested
> individual and finds out all the legal substances that they could have
> ingested that might give a false positive.

I know this is getting out of the aviation thing; but, if these
advanced techniques you mention are so refined, how comes we often
hear about problems with professional athletes being falsely accused
of doping? Since there is a lot of money at stake, I wouldn't think
they go for the cheap version of the tests; pro athletes are surrounded
by physicians who should know better about what substances might or might
not cause a problem; the whole thing about chain of custody of the
samples should be taken care of very carefully because of they are under
a lot of scrutiny, etc. So, if they can't seem to get it right in such
a context, why should I trust my hypothetical employer on this issue?

(note that my current employer doesn't require such a test -- I don't
have teen age kids, and only smoked the thing where it was legal to do
so)

--Sylvain

[PPL-A (Canada)]

On Apr 17, 11:50 am, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>
> >> BTW, I don't remember who in the thread mentioned it but the poppy
> >> seed false positive is an urban myth.
>
> > Nope. See
>
> >http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp
>
> Read the last paragraph. Our testing lab uses 2500 ng/ml. Which is higher
> than the one snopes quotes as the corrective action.

Jamie & Adam, the boys who do MythBusters, actually showed this story
was true in one of their episodes, as I recall, as they ate the seeds
in increasing amounts and eventually produced a positive result. As I
recall the amount of bagel, bread, etc. was the amount anyone might
eat at a meal that included normal kinds of bread, or buns or even ...
yes ... bagels.

Anyway ... there seems to be a whole lotta worrying going on here. I
know someone who needs to have blood and urine tests every 3 or 4
weeks, and they never produce erroneous results just because of
eating ... or whatever ... normal living activities ... stop worrying
so much ... your blood sugar range, sugar or protein in your urine,
etc., are measured to a range, and if you are normal, or do normal
things, your tests will be normal.

Stop with all the hand wringing.

PPL-A

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Sylvain wrote:
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>> You are right about the tests failing. Especially the quick tests.
>> They fail at a rate close to 50% both false positives and negatives
>> that's why we stopped using them. We use a lab with a mass
>> spectrometer that could probably tell what you had for dinner last
>> Thursday. And a positive is a positive only after a medical review
>> officer talks to the tested individual and finds out all the legal
>> substances that they could have ingested that might give a false
>> positive.
>
> I know this is getting out of the aviation thing; but, if these
> advanced techniques you mention are so refined, how comes we often
> hear about problems with professional athletes being falsely accused
> of doping? Since there is a lot of money at stake, I wouldn't think
> they go for the cheap version of the tests; pro athletes are
> surrounded by physicians who should know better about what substances
> might or might not cause a problem; the whole thing about chain of
> custody of the samples should be taken care of very carefully because
> of they are under a lot of scrutiny, etc. So, if they can't seem to
> get it right in such a context, why should I trust my hypothetical
> employer on this issue?
>
> (note that my current employer doesn't require such a test -- I don't
> have teen age kids, and only smoked the thing where it was legal to
> do so)
>
> --Sylvain

The pro athletes have real good lawyers. Add to that (like that isn't
enough) a lot of the things that athletes use are already in the human
system naturally and the performance improvement comes from increasing the
amount that is there.

As far as trusting you employer I don't ask you to. We always use a third
party lab that then uses an independent medical review officer.

Since you mentioned good tests you'd be surprised at some of the
organizations that use the cheap tests. We had an employee that failed for
cocaine on a Tuesday and admitted to me that he had used it Sunday
afternoon. He thought it was strange though that we caught him because the
day before his FEDERAL probation officer had tested him with the little
instant read cups on Monday and he passed.

[Andrew Gideon]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:15:04 -0400, Peter Dohm wrote:

>
>> > I always drink extra coffee before the medical. I'd be terribly
>> > embarrassed to have no pulse (not to mention that it might be
>> > disqualifying), and coffee really gets my heart going.
>>
>> Coffee and the caffeine it contains can raise blood pressure and cause
>> diuresis.
>>
> Now who to copy if I ever want to pose as a humorless schmuck!

Blame me. I didn't include an "emoticon" for the literally challenged.
Of course, I also don't reply to that particular poster, so that those of
us with kill files even saw that abuse of electrons is your fault.

You're hereby docked one coffee flagon.

- Andrew

[Finn]

On Apr 16, 7:35 pm, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way
d0t com> wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > On Apr 17, 7:05 am, "Finn" > wrote:
> >> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
> >> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
> >> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon
>
> > Finn
>
> > Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
> > might worry about a drug screen are:
> > 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
> > being a good pilot
> > 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
> > impair his/her ability to fly
>
> Or, 3) He's really worried about the prostrate exam but is too shy to ask
> about it so he asked about the drug screen instead?
>

Some great replies! Can't a guy just be curious without being called
an idiot?

[Finn]

> > > Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
> > > might worry about a drug screen are:
> > > 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
> > > being a good pilot
> > > 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
> > > impair his/her ability to fly
>

I have been subject to random screens for 8 yrs as an air traffic
controller, and am currently enrolled (3 yrs) in a random program that
is required to use my USCG Captain's license. I was going to ask if my
enrollment might qualify/replace a screen at the medical exam. No need
now. Finn (drug free idiot)

[Maxwell]

"Finn" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I have been subject to random screens for 8 yrs as an air traffic
> controller, and am currently enrolled (3 yrs) in a random program that
> is required to use my USCG Captain's license. I was going to ask if my
> enrollment might qualify/replace a screen at the medical exam. No need
> now. Finn (drug free idiot)
>

Try not to take it to hard, I thought it was a far question. Seems we will
always have far to many people with snappy and arrogant answers, just
because they don't like the question. They can't seem to understand that
kind of attitude just breeds trolls like MX.

[Dave J]

They also check for creatin levels. After an FAA medical a couple
medicals ago, the doctors said that I had protein in my urine. Not
enough to disqualify me, but enough that I should get it checked
again.

I did, and it was nothing. (I am -- ok, was -- a long distance runner,
and apparently, that can casue temporarily elevated protein levels in
a urinalysis.)

In any case, like others said, they are not checking for drugs, but
diabetes is not the only thing they are checking for.

-- dave j


> YOu have assumed wrong they are checking your sugar levels. There isn't a
> drug screen in the class 3 medical testing and there is no enabling law if
> they wanted to.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> writes:
>
>> Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
>> might worry about a drug screen are:
>> 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her
>> from being a good pilot
>> 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
>> impair his/her ability to fly
>
> Eating bagels made with poppy seeds can give you a positive drug test,
> even though you've taken no drugs. For that matter, taking aspirin or
> vitamin C before the test can make it look positive for glucose, too.

OTOH, who cares if you're on drugs?

Nobody.


Bertie

[Judah]

Finn > wrote in news:1176833738.849357.84110
@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

> Some great replies! Can't a guy just be curious without being called
> an idiot?

While I do agree that some of the accusatory responses were pretty harsh,
your initial question as phrased was AWFULLY suspicious...

[Finn]

On Apr 17, 7:55 pm, Judah > wrote:
> Finn > wrote in news:1176833738.849357.84110
> @p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Some great replies! Can't a guy just be curious without being called
> > an idiot?
>
> While I do agree that some of the accusatory responses were pretty harsh,
> your initial question as phrased was AWFULLY suspicious...


Yes, poorly worded. Also, I realize that no one called ME an idiot,
except me. And I stand by my decision :^)

[Margy Natalie]

Kingfish wrote:
> On Apr 16, 5:50 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>
>>Eating bagels made with poppy seeds can give you a positive drug test, even
>>though you've taken no drugs.
>
>
>
> Old urban myth. You'd have to eat many bagels (or just scarf down a
> few handfuls of seeds) to test positive.
>
Gee, back in the day I used to take a hot dog roll, smear it with butter
and cover it in a quarter inch of poppy seeds. I bet 3 or 4 of those
would do it. But alas, middle age set in and butter and poppy seeds are
out :-( .

Margy

[Margy Natalie]

>
> I have a lot of employees and would be employees that take drug screens for
> the companies I represent and have spent a lot of time dealing with the
> results and I'd be tickled to death if you could find me any proof that just
> being in a room with a pot smoker is enough to make you test positive much
> less being in one where someone has smoked in the past. If you test positive
> for pot you got enough in you to get high.
>
When I was in high school the student bathrooms seemed to vent into the
gym teachers office. They had to abandon their offices during lunch
periods because they ended up too high to teach their next classes.

Margy

[DR]

Finn wrote:
> On Apr 16, 7:35 pm, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way
> d0t com> wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>>> On Apr 17, 7:05 am, "Finn" > wrote:
>>>> Hi all, going for my medical soon and was wondering if I will be
>>>> subject to a drug-screen urinalysis as well as other urine tests. I've
>>>> tried looking for the info but could not find it. thanks, Jon
>>> Finn
>>> Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
>>> might worry about a drug screen are:
>>> 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
>>> being a good pilot
>>> 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
>>> impair his/her ability to fly
>> Or, 3) He's really worried about the prostrate exam but is too shy to ask
>> about it so he asked about the drug screen instead?
>>
>
> Some great replies! Can't a guy just be curious without being called
> an idiot?
>
Who called YOU an idiot? :-P
Now, are YOU concerned by a drug screen?

Cheers MarkC

[DR]

Finn wrote:
>>>> Why be concerned with a drug screen? The two main reasons why people
>>>> might worry about a drug screen are:
>>>> 1) An idiot who is using illegal drugs which will prevent him/her from
>>>> being a good pilot
>>>> 2) An idiot's attempt to hide a serious medical condition that would
>>>> impair his/her ability to fly
>
> I have been subject to random screens for 8 yrs as an air traffic
> controller, and am currently enrolled (3 yrs) in a random program that
> is required to use my USCG Captain's license. I was going to ask if my
> enrollment might qualify/replace a screen at the medical exam. No need
> now. Finn (drug free idiot)
>
Hi Finn

Sounds interesting, what's a random program that uses a USCG license?

Cheers MarkC

[DR]

Finn wrote:
> On Apr 17, 7:55 pm, Judah > wrote:
>> Finn > wrote in news:1176833738.849357.84110
>> @p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> Some great replies! Can't a guy just be curious without being called
>>> an idiot?
>> While I do agree that some of the accusatory responses were pretty harsh,
>> your initial question as phrased was AWFULLY suspicious...
>
>
> Yes, poorly worded. Also, I realize that no one called ME an idiot,
> except me. And I stand by my decision :^)
>

OK but don't be so harsh on yourself -you are not a complete idiot are
you... :-P

Cheers MarkC

[DR]

steve wrote:
> Not that this would be an issue for me, but when I went for my class III
> medical last year, they only checked for diabetes in the urine.

No, they checked for the presence of reducing sugars... I'm trying not
to be pedantic but my flight instructor insists that I strive for
precision :-)

Cheers MarkC
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[DR]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

We had an employee that failed for
> cocaine on a Tuesday and admitted to me that he had used it Sunday
> afternoon. He thought it was strange though that we caught him because the
> day before his FEDERAL probation officer had tested him with the little
> instant read cups on Monday and he passed.
>
>
So he's now going to jail for probation violation?

Cheers

[Gig 601XL Builder]

DR wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>
> We had an employee that failed for
>> cocaine on a Tuesday and admitted to me that he had used it Sunday
>> afternoon. He thought it was strange though that we caught him
>> because the day before his FEDERAL probation officer had tested him
>> with the little instant read cups on Monday and he passed.
>>
>>
> So he's now going to jail for probation violation?
>
> Cheers

I don't know. We fired him but are under no request or requirement to report
the drug screen results to the probation officer. His PO also never called
to ask why he got fired. Your tax dollars at work.

[Peter Dohm]

> >
> >> > I always drink extra coffee before the medical. I'd be terribly
> >> > embarrassed to have no pulse (not to mention that it might be
> >> > disqualifying), and coffee really gets my heart going.
> >>
> >> Coffee and the caffeine it contains can raise blood pressure and cause
> >> diuresis.
> >>
> > Now who to copy if I ever want to pose as a humorless schmuck!
>
> Blame me. I didn't include an "emoticon" for the literally challenged.
> Of course, I also don't reply to that particular poster, so that those of
> us with kill files even saw that abuse of electrons is your fault.
>
> You're hereby docked one coffee flagon.
>
> - Andrew
>
>
No, Andrew, it wasn't you.

Besides, you used one of my favorite lines.

Peter :-)

[Finn]

>
> Hi Finn
>
> Sounds interesting, what's a random program that uses a USCG license?
>
> Cheers MarkC

Mark, in order to use a USCG capt license, one must be enrolled in a
random drug program. I use a company called American Professional
Captains Assoc Drug Consortium, (APCA) out of St Pete, FL.
Coincidently I got my renewal notice in the mail today. Cost is $49/
yr. On the form it says:

"USCG requires that every licensed mariner operating under his license
to be covered by a random drug program. This may be either company
operated or provided by a USCG approved random drug consortium, such
as APCA"

>From what I understand the company must check at least 50% of
'members' in any one year. Hope that answers your question. thx.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 18, 1:11 pm, Margy Natalie > wrote:

>
> When I was in high school the student bathrooms seemed to vent into the
> gym teachers office. They had to abandon their offices during lunch
> periods because they ended up too high to teach their next classes.
>

Yeh right. Toilets venting into teachers offices? LOL If this story
has a grain of truth I'd imagine that is simply that they wanted any
excuse not to teach the brats... The concentration of smoke in a
typical room is so low (as compared to that in the smokers lungs -
which already filtered out a lot of the THC) you simply can't get high
that way and that is also why you don't test positive on a drug
screen. This has been medically tested... Good urban myth story tho'

Cheers