NGA US navigational data at risk?

[Doug Vetter]

Has anyone seen the notice on the NGA website that the USFIF (raw
aviation waypoint data for the US) will be discontinued in October of 2007?

They tried to kill DAFIF as a whole last year but eventually succumbed
to pressure from the industry to allow US territorial data to remain
available. If I'm reading this correctly, however, they're about to
screw us anyway (read the second notice down from the top):

http://164.214.2.62/products/usfif/v0008/USREADME.TXT

I just sent email to their feedback address and am looking forward to
their response.

If you're wondering how this affects the average pilot, keep in mind
that virtually all EFB and planning software (flightprep,
seattleavionics, etc.) get their raw data from this source. I have no
idea how these companies will source their data if the NGA refuses to
distribute it to anyone but the "military and its contractors" like
Boeing -- ahem, I mean Jeppesen.

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I also find it
interesting that they've chosen to do this right now...when the eyes of
AOPA and other watchdogs are busy fighting on the user-fee front.

I'll forward any response I get from the NGA.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI

http://www.dvatp.com
--------------------

[Mxsmanic]

Doug Vetter writes:

> Has anyone seen the notice on the NGA website that the USFIF (raw
> aviation waypoint data for the US) will be discontinued in October of 2007?

They've been planning to do this for a year, unfortunately.

The USA is now the land of the ... safe and submissive, I guess. Free and
brave doesn't apply any more.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Doug Vetter writes:
>
>> Has anyone seen the notice on the NGA website that the USFIF (raw
>> aviation waypoint data for the US) will be discontinued in October of
>> 2007?
>
> They've been planning to do this for a year, unfortunately.
>
> The USA is now the land of the ... safe and submissive, I guess. Free
> and brave doesn't apply any more.
>

what the **** would you know abotu it wannabe boi? Maybe you think they
should leave four way range interserctions in pace, fukktard.

Bertie

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Doug Vetter > said:
>Has anyone seen the notice on the NGA website that the USFIF (raw
>aviation waypoint data for the US) will be discontinued in October of 2007?
>
>They tried to kill DAFIF as a whole last year but eventually succumbed
>to pressure from the industry to allow US territorial data to remain
>available. If I'm reading this correctly, however, they're about to
>screw us anyway (read the second notice down from the top):

You weren't paying attention. When they "succumbed to pressure", they
said they'd make USFIF available FOR ONE YEAR. This has always been the
plan.

In the meantime, the FAA is working on providing the data that is in USFIF
that isn't in the ATA-100 data CD (namely, the airspace boundaries).


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
<<<You've got to love a newsreader with a menu option named "Kill this Author".
<<Does it work? And if so, is the death traceable?
<Nah, but Dave the Resurrector will just bring 'em back again.

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

"The USA is now the land of the ... safe and submissive, I guess. Free and
brave doesn't apply any more."

And this comment comes from someone who couldn't make a life for himself in
the US and now lives in France?

You should stay in France, renounce your US citizenship, and post on the
French aviation newsgroups.

[Maxwell]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...

> And this comment comes from someone who couldn't make a life for himself
> in the US and now lives in France?
>
> You should stay in France, renounce your US citizenship, and post on the
> French aviation newsgroups.

From his own admissions he hasn't been able to make much of a life in France
either.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 6:27 pm, Doug Vetter > wrote:
> Has anyone seen the notice on the NGA website that the USFIF (raw
> aviation waypoint data for the US) will be discontinued in October of 2007?
>
> They tried to kill DAFIF as a whole last year but eventually succumbed
> to pressure from the industry to allow US territorial data to remain
> available. If I'm reading this correctly, however, they're about to
> screw us anyway (read the second notice down from the top):
>
> http://164.214.2.62/products/usfif/v0008/USREADME.TXT
>
> I just sent email to their feedback address and am looking forward to
> their response.
>
> If you're wondering how this affects the average pilot, keep in mind
> that virtually all EFB and planning software (flightprep,
> seattleavionics, etc.) get their raw data from this source. I have no
> idea how these companies will source their data if the NGA refuses to
> distribute it to anyone but the "military and its contractors" like
> Boeing -- ahem, I mean Jeppesen.
>
> I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I also find it
> interesting that they've chosen to do this right now...when the eyes of
> AOPA and other watchdogs are busy fighting on the user-fee front.
>
> I'll forward any response I get from the NGA.
>
> -Doug
>
> --
> --------------------
> Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI
>
> --------------------

Hi Doug,

You can get all the same data from the FAA in the National Flight
Database, but it would cost you $150 a year to receive the CD ROM.
Also, the data in in the ARINC 424 standard format, so you you want to
know how to interpret and use this data, that will cost you an
additional $252 to buy the ARINC 424 standard from ARINC.

Isn't progress wonderful?

There are definitely forces at work that are moving to price aviation
out of existence. Between fuel prices, user fees, and rising fees for
services and data, I think that GA is going to become only for the
very wealty. Driving a car is getting to be as expensive as GA used
to be... fuel prices have nearly tripled since 2000, but I haven't
had a pay raise since then.

Dean

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> Between fuel prices, user fees, and rising fees for
> services and data, I think that GA is going to become only for the
> very wealty.

It moved out of the reach of the average Joe decades ago.

--
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[Viperdoc]

If you consider yourself average or normal, guess again.

[Erik]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> writes:
>
>
>>Between fuel prices, user fees, and rising fees for
>>services and data, I think that GA is going to become only for the
>>very wealty.
>
>
> It moved out of the reach of the average Joe decades ago.
>

I'm average Joe and it's within my grasp.

I just have to turn tricks to get fuel money, but what the hell. Flying
is great.

[Mxsmanic]

Erik writes:

> I'm average Joe and it's within my grasp.
>
> I just have to turn tricks to get fuel money, but what the hell. Flying
> is great.

Joe Buck, Midnight Pilot.

The average Joe, however, probably wouldn't be willing to make the sacrifices
that many non-wealthy pilots do to fly. Nor should he be required to.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Maxwell]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Erik writes:
>
>> I'm average Joe and it's within my grasp.
>>
>> I just have to turn tricks to get fuel money, but what the hell. Flying
>> is great.
>
> Joe Buck, Midnight Pilot.
>
> The average Joe, however, probably wouldn't be willing to make the
> sacrifices
> that many non-wealthy pilots do to fly. Nor should he be required to.
>

Sure the average Joe would, and they do every day.

It seems to be the retarded Joe we're having a problem convincing.

[Erik]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Erik writes:
>
>
>>I'm average Joe and it's within my grasp.
>>
>>I just have to turn tricks to get fuel money, but what the hell. Flying
>>is great.
>
>
> Joe Buck, Midnight Pilot.
>
> The average Joe, however, probably wouldn't be willing to make the sacrifices
> that many non-wealthy pilots do to fly. Nor should he be required to.
>

I make those all the time. I don't consider them sacrifices, though.
If you gave up a day of watching tv for a day of fishing, is that a
sacrifice? Giving up cold brussel sprouts so that you can have
lasagne for dinner?

It's not a sacrifice to spend my money on a rental C150 for a couple
hours. It's the furthest from a sacrifice I can think of.

[Maxwell]

"Erik" > wrote in message
...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> Erik writes:
>>
>>
>>>I'm average Joe and it's within my grasp.
>>>
>>>I just have to turn tricks to get fuel money, but what the hell. Flying
>>>is great.
>>
>>
>> Joe Buck, Midnight Pilot.
>>
>> The average Joe, however, probably wouldn't be willing to make the
>> sacrifices
>> that many non-wealthy pilots do to fly. Nor should he be required to.
>>
>
> I make those all the time. I don't consider them sacrifices, though.
> If you gave up a day of watching tv for a day of fishing, is that a
> sacrifice? Giving up cold brussel sprouts so that you can have
> lasagne for dinner?
>
> It's not a sacrifice to spend my money on a rental C150 for a couple
> hours. It's the furthest from a sacrifice I can think of.
>

Yeah, but you have to remember, MX is obviously a socal retard that could
probably never be able to interact with a real person giving instruction.

[Arup]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Erik writes:
>
>> I'm average Joe and it's within my grasp.
>>
>> I just have to turn tricks to get fuel money, but what the hell.
>> Flying is great.
>
> Joe Buck, Midnight Pilot.
>
> The average Joe, however, probably wouldn't be willing to make the
> sacrifices that many non-wealthy pilots do to fly. Nor should he be
> required to.
>
you're an idiot.



Bertie

[Doug Vetter]

wrote:
> You can get all the same data from the FAA in the National Flight
> Database, but it would cost you $150 a year to receive the CD ROM.
> Also, the data in in the ARINC 424 standard format, so you you want to
> know how to interpret and use this data, that will cost you an
> additional $252 to buy the ARINC 424 standard from ARINC.

I just checked NACO's website and found that. I don't recall seeing it
there just a few weeks ago, so I imagine it's new.

I don't really care about paying for the data...after all, considering
the work that goes into maintaining it, $150 a year is still heavily
subsidized IMHO. My concern was being able to get the raw data at all.
I guess I can breathe a bit easier now.

Thanks for the tip.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI

http://www.dvatp.com
--------------------

[[email protected]]

On Apr 18, 12:12 pm, wrote:


> You can get all the same data from the FAA in the National Flight
> Database, but it would cost you $150 a year to receive the CD ROM.
> Also, the data in in the ARINC 424 standard format, so you you want to
> know how to interpret and use this data, that will cost you an
> additional $252 to buy the ARINC 424 standard from ARINC.
>

Actually, you can get the data from the NFDC for free now that they've
launched their electronic delivery system. I ran across the info by
accident somewhere, and signed up a week or two ago.

See http://nfdc.faa.gov/fadds/index.jsp for more info.

Also, regarding the data formats, I don't know anything about ARINC
424, but there's data format information distributed with the data.

Hope that helps.

Benj