What's going on at Perry, SC Region 5N # 711 reporting

[[email protected]]

Today, Wednesday, April 18th, has been xcelled due to weather. We had
a pilots meeting this morning at 10:30 am, and the daily winners from
the 4 classes, from yesterdy, the first cntest day, told their
stories. Dave Martin, BV, who has been contest soaring since about
1977.....err......30 years, wins his first day. He is smiling from ear
to ear. He found wave and used it to the first turn, which really
increased his first leg speed, by about 20 mph over the rest of the
pack. Congrats to BV. great flight and win. Last night we were treated
to chicken on a beer and a great airshow by Gary Ward.
DJ wins first day in Sports, LBL Standard, and W3 18 Meter. All
classes had TAT's with the 2nd and 3rd turn being th same. Going from
the 2nd to 3rd turn area was into the wind, lift was weak, 2-3 kts,
and max lift was 4000 agl. Except for the wave, which some got up to
8,000 msl.
First day, Monday, we had high winds and at 4,000 msl they were 340
degrees at 69 kts. Today, Wednesday, high, solid clouds, closed us
out. P3 is CD, SZ took over as weatherman, thanks SZ as QV went back
north to be with a friend. Also, KS went north, as did HW, But HW
cameback and gave us a report on our friend, Dale Kramer. We were told
he is now in Pittsburg and receiving the best in medical care. All of
our prayers wish for a speedy recovery, as Dale is very much a part of
our soaring family.

The next 3 days, we feel we will have the sky's to make a contest.

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe # 711 reporting.

[Burt Compton - Marfa]

Tom (711),

How about giving the names of the pilots rather than only their
contest ID - makes it more interesting for folks on the sidelines of
racing reading your reports, or are these reports only for the
insiders - the racing elite who know the contest ID's? I hope not,
and I bet you're using the ID's for brevity, but it sure takes away
the personal touch.

Appreciate your reports - good to get the straight scoop fast.

Burt
Marfa

On Apr 18, 12:33�pm, wrote:
> Today, Wednesday, April 18th, has been xcelled due to weather. We had
> a pilots meeting this morning at 10:30 am, and the daily winners from
> the 4 classes, from yesterdy, the first cntest day, *told their
> stories. Dave Martin, BV, *who has been contest soaring since about
> 1977.....err......30 years, wins his first day. He is smiling from ear
> to ear. He found wave and used it to the first turn, which really
> increased his first leg speed, by about 20 mph over the rest of the
> pack. Congrats to BV. great flight and win. Last night we were treated
> to chicken on a beer and a great airshow by Gary Ward.
> DJ wins first day in Sports, LBL Standard, and W3 18 Meter. All
is CD, SZ took over as weatherman, thanks SZ as QV went back
> north to be with a friend. Also, KS went north, as did HW, But HW
> cameback and gave us a report on our friend, Dale Kramer. We were told
> he is now in Pittsburg and receiving the best in medical care. All of
> our prayers wish for a speedy recovery, as Dale is very much a part of
> our soaring family.
>
> The next 3 days, we feel we will have the sky's to make a contest.
>
> Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe *# 711 reporting.

[Burt Compton - Marfa]

>From Tom Kelly to Burt Compton: "Out of the many emails saying "thank
you" for my contest posts over the last 6 years, your the first
complaint. Your comments are not wanted, nor needed, and really serve
no purpose, as you are far from a expert. Go play instructor and and
don't tell me how to do my thing............meaning, your so far out
of touch on the contest scene, that's why you simply don't
understand."

Regards, # 711.


Folks, above is the reply Tom Kelly (711) sent to me today. As a life-
long promoter of soaring, I was just casually asking for him to open
up his contest reports by considering using names instead of only
contest ID's to identify the pilots, so those who are interested in
the racing scene might better understand, enjoy and someday
participate. It wasn't a complaint so much as a suggestion to help
the newbies figure it out.

Tom, you are inadvertently perpetuating the "elitist" perception of
the 300 SSA members (of some 12,000) who race sailplanes.

Come to Marfa and have a beer with me at sunset sometime and we'll
talk about how we can better promote soaring, by promoting racing, as
well as good training.

Enjoy your season - I'm off to Germany to fly for a few weeks.

Burt
Marfa

[Kilo Charlie]

"Burt Compton - Marfa" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> >From Tom Kelly to Burt Compton: "Out of the many emails saying "thank
> you" for my contest posts over the last 6 years, your the first
> complaint. Your comments are not wanted, nor needed, and really serve
> no purpose, as you are far from a expert. Go play instructor and and
> don't tell me how to do my thing............meaning, your so far out
> of touch on the contest scene, that's why you simply don't
> understand."
>
> Regards, # 711.
>
>
> Folks, above is the reply Tom Kelly (711) sent to me today. As a life-
> long promoter of soaring, I was just casually asking for him to open
> up his contest reports by considering using names instead of only
> contest ID's to identify the pilots, so those who are interested in
> the racing scene might better understand, enjoy and someday
> participate. It wasn't a complaint so much as a suggestion to help
> the newbies figure it out.
>
> Tom, you are inadvertently perpetuating the "elitist" perception of
> the 300 SSA members (of some 12,000) who race sailplanes.
>
> Come to Marfa and have a beer with me at sunset sometime and we'll
> talk about how we can better promote soaring, by promoting racing, as
> well as good training.
>
> Enjoy your season - I'm off to Germany to fly for a few weeks.
>
> Burt
> Marfa

Burt did you honestly think that your remark "or are these reports only for
the
insiders - the racing elite who know the contest ID's?" was not
inflammatory? That could have been totally left out of and your message
would still have been understood.

In many years of flying and yes racing gliders not once have I ever heard a
racing pilot put down a non-racing pilot but it is a regular occurence for
some of the non-racers on this newsgroup to use the same type of
inflammatory rhetoric that you have. I've just chalked it up to a few
disgruntled individuals but it is YOU that are giving the non-racers a bad
name Burt. So if your goal is to truly promote soaring as you state then it
would be in your best interest to leave out the inflammatory statements.
Unless of course you only wish to promote your own non-racing type of
flying.....oops! Thats inflammatory! ;-)

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix

[Randy[_2_]]

#711
Thanks for taking the time to give us the contest reports. Much
appreciated.

Yes, it would be nice to know the pilot's name beside the their
contest number.
I have been going to OLC and the SSA Contest Reports just to see who
they
are and what they are flying. Again, this to is just a request for
those of us who
are out of touch with the contest scene.

Your reply to Burt sure gives the "Contest Scene" a very negative
appeal and does
nothing to promote soaring or racing. I am just glad that not
everyone in the contest
scene is so disrespectful or has your same attitude.

Randy Teel RS

Tulsa, OK

[Jay Pokorski]

If you have a negative or "constructive" comment to make, do so IN
PRIVATE.

NEVER, EVER, post someone's private communication to a newsgroup
without their permission.

R.A.S. has been reasonably civil recently. Can we please try to keep
it that way?

Keep up the great reporting, 711!

Jay/R6

[[email protected]]

holy over reaction Batman. 711 - The contest reports are great, but
it sure would be nice to know who you are talking about. Otherwise it
just all seems very mythical.

Tony Condon
"ABC"

[Mark Hawkins]

Well, since the reports are getting on the ssa's webpage very quickly,
I for one, appreciate any report at all. I certainly don't have all
the CID's memorized (I of course know KS and XX) but I'm not overly
adverse to looking them up in the SSA database either if I'm really
interested. So while names might be nice, as Jay says, let's not
flame on someone for taking time to provide info that isn't otherwise
available. Heck, I'd enjoy reading similar write up's from our
soaring brethern in other countries as well. In those cases, it won't
matter whether there are names or CID's. I'm probably not going to
know them anyway. Doesn't make it any less interesting though.

Having said the above and to get BACK to the subject of this
thread....Anyone got any info on the flying at Perry from yesterday
(19th)?

Later!

-Mark

[Mark Hawkins]

Well, since the reports aren't getting on the ssa's webpage very
quickly,
I for one, appreciate any report at all. I certainly don't have all
the CID's memorized (I of course know KS and XX) but I'm not overly
adverse to looking them up in the SSA database either if I'm really
interested. So while names might be nice, as Jay says, let's not
flame on someone for taking time to provide info that isn't otherwise
available. Heck, I'd enjoy reading similar write up's from our
soaring brethern in other countries as well. In those cases, it
won't
matter whether there are names or CID's. I'm probably not going to
know them anyway. Doesn't make it any less interesting though.

Having said the above and to get BACK to the subject of this
thread....Anyone got any info on the flying at Perry from yesterday
(19th)?


Later!


-Mark

[Pat Russell]

Children, let's play together.

We have enough threats from outside our sandbox. Let's not make it
worse by kicking sand in each other's faces.

[[email protected]]

There is nothing inflammatory about "are these reports only for the
insiders - the racing elite who know the contest ID's?" Burts polite
suggestion of using pilots names is a good one that I among others
would really appreciate. I can't see any way to interpret it as a
complaint. Burt may not be a contest pilot but do you have any idea
how many contests he's crewed for, towed for, organized, or otherwise
promoted? There's probably a few contest pilots out there who started
out with him in the back seat too.

On second thought, maybe Burt is jealous of all the racing elite who
get all the glory. Yea, that must be it. All those years of
tirelessly crewing and training has really turned him into a cynical,
back stabbing know-it-all who has sunk to inflammatory rhetoric to get
his point across. Yup. That's Burt.

I can't wait to go to Marfa and kick his ass.

Matt Michael
contest ID WBY

[line_rat]

On Apr 22, 8:05 pm, wrote:
> There is nothing inflammatory about "are these reports only for the
> insiders - the racing elite who know the contest ID's?" Burts polite
> suggestion of using pilots names is a good one that I among others
> would really appreciate. I can't see any way to interpret it as a
> complaint. Burt may not be a contest pilot but do you have any idea
> how many contests he's crewed for, towed for, organized, or otherwise
> promoted? There's probably a few contest pilots out there who started
> out with him in the back seat too.
>
> On second thought, maybe Burt is jealous of all the racing elite who
> get all the glory. Yea, that must be it. All those years of
> tirelessly crewing and training has really turned him into a cynical,
> back stabbing know-it-all who has sunk to inflammatory rhetoric to get
> his point across. Yup. That's Burt.
>
> I can't wait to go to Marfa and kick his ass.
>
> Matt Michael
> contest ID WBY

How many people would really recognize the name of the pilot? There
are so few names that people know out of their own soaring club that
it doesn't really matter the name or the contest ID. If you know the
person then you will know the ID and if you don't know the person it
does not matter if you say the name or ID you still will not know.

The only reason the topic has gone on so long and anybody cares is
Burt posted a PRIVATE reply. The reason for PRIVATE replies is so you
can reply in PRIVATE and the world doesn't see it. Someone said
"names" would be better for the "newbie's" so you go and put a PRIVATE
reply out in public for the "newbie's" to read. There is already so
much bull**** people post and "newbie's" read, lets go argue on
something that does not need to be changed and if was changed would
give you absolutely no more useful information.

If you want a "FREE" something different, than do it yourself.

GO "711"

Fly fast, Pull hard

[Chip Bearden]

I just came across this thread. At the risk of offending everyone:

1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...
2. Tom's response to Burt was uncalled for, even in a private email. I
agree with Casey Lenox that I have not heard contest pilots put down
non-contest pilots...but Tom's "go play instructor" is definitely a
written put down.
3. Publishing a private email this way is generally wrong, and Burt
shouldn't have done it, however offended he was. I agree, though, that
Tom's sentiments reinforce the negative stereotype of contest pilots.
4. I've been flying competitively since 1968 but I don't know all the
names today, much less the IDs. The top guys who've kept the same #s
for years are familiar to many non-contest pilots; e.g., KS, DJ, XX.
But I remember when Karl Striedieck and Doug Jacobs both flew under
different #s, and all three of those guys have flown borrowed gliders
with totally different IDs. I agree names would help and the request
was a reasonable one to consider. In his defense, Burt (who's probably
been around soaring at least as long as I have) did close with a note
of appreciation for Tom.

So there's some blame to go around. How about we end this thread with
"Tom, great job on the reporting; your audience would likely be even
larger if you used names of all pilots, but we understand it takes
time to hammer these things out" and "Burt, we appreciate the great
work you've done for soaring over the years and hope you continue to
be a tireless promoter of it so the few of us in this country who
enjoy it can do so in the future."

And now that the weather has finally broken, maybe we can get back to
flying and avoid this stuff for a few months. :)

Chip Bearden
JB
New Jersey, USA

[Greg Arnold]

It does seem that there generally is a presumption that something in an
email conversation will not be revealed to the public. However, in
Burt's defense, is there the same presumption when you send someone an
unsolicited rude email?



Chip Bearden wrote:
> I just came across this thread. At the risk of offending everyone:
>
> 1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
> Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...
> 2. Tom's response to Burt was uncalled for, even in a private email. I
> agree with Casey Lenox that I have not heard contest pilots put down
> non-contest pilots...but Tom's "go play instructor" is definitely a
> written put down.
> 3. Publishing a private email this way is generally wrong, and Burt
> shouldn't have done it, however offended he was. I agree, though, that
> Tom's sentiments reinforce the negative stereotype of contest pilots.
> 4. I've been flying competitively since 1968 but I don't know all the
> names today, much less the IDs. The top guys who've kept the same #s
> for years are familiar to many non-contest pilots; e.g., KS, DJ, XX.
> But I remember when Karl Striedieck and Doug Jacobs both flew under
> different #s, and all three of those guys have flown borrowed gliders
> with totally different IDs. I agree names would help and the request
> was a reasonable one to consider. In his defense, Burt (who's probably
> been around soaring at least as long as I have) did close with a note
> of appreciation for Tom.
>
> So there's some blame to go around. How about we end this thread with
> "Tom, great job on the reporting; your audience would likely be even
> larger if you used names of all pilots, but we understand it takes
> time to hammer these things out" and "Burt, we appreciate the great
> work you've done for soaring over the years and hope you continue to
> be a tireless promoter of it so the few of us in this country who
> enjoy it can do so in the future."
>
> And now that the weather has finally broken, maybe we can get back to
> flying and avoid this stuff for a few months. :)
>
> Chip Bearden
> JB
> New Jersey, USA
>

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

I would like to know the names of the folks racing too.
It sounded like a good suggestion to me. Opens up the racing landscape to
others.

But maybe that's not the idea when it comes to soaring competition.
I guess I'll find out when I start racing.

Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
>Tom (711),
>
>How about giving the names of the pilots rather than only their
>contest ID - makes it more interesting for folks on the sidelines of
>racing reading your reports, or are these reports only for the
>insiders - the racing elite who know the contest ID's? I hope not,
>and I bet you're using the ID's for brevity, but it sure takes away
>the personal touch.
>
>Appreciate your reports - good to get the straight scoop fast.
>
>Burt
>Marfa
>
>On Apr 18, 12:33�pm, wrote:
>> Today, Wednesday, April 18th, has been xcelled due to weather. We had
>> a pilots meeting this morning at 10:30 am, and the daily winners from
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> to chicken on a beer and a great airshow by Gary Ward.
>> DJ wins first day in Sports, LBL Standard, and W3 18 Meter. All
>is CD, SZ took over as weatherman, thanks SZ as QV went back
>> north to be with a friend. Also, KS went north, as did HW, But HW
>> cameback and gave us a report on our friend, Dale Kramer. We were told
>[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>
>> Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe # 711 reporting.

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[01-- Zero One]

Absolutely! Delete it, reply to it, or keep it for posterity, but do
NOT post it to a public news group without permission of the author.



BTW, this was not an "unsolicited" rude email. Correct or not, Tom felt
he had been wrongly criticized by Burt. He wrote him an obviously
impassioned _private_ response. I think that was the appropriate
course. That is where it should have stayed... private!



My $0.02.



Larry Goddard

"01" USA

"Greg Arnold" > wrote in message
:

> It does seem that there generally is a presumption that something in an
> email conversation will not be revealed to the public. However, in
> Burt's defense, is there the same presumption when you send someone an
> unsolicited rude email?
>
>
>
> Chip Bearden wrote:
> > I just came across this thread. At the risk of offending everyone:
> >
> > 1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
> > Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...
> > 2. Tom's response to Burt was uncalled for, even in a private email. I
> > agree with Casey Lenox that I have not heard contest pilots put down
> > non-contest pilots...but Tom's "go play instructor" is definitely a
> > written put down.
> > 3. Publishing a private email this way is generally wrong, and Burt
> > shouldn't have done it, however offended he was. I agree, though, that
> > Tom's sentiments reinforce the negative stereotype of contest pilots.
> > 4. I've been flying competitively since 1968 but I don't know all the
> > names today, much less the IDs. The top guys who've kept the same #s
> > for years are familiar to many non-contest pilots; e.g., KS, DJ, XX.
> > But I remember when Karl Striedieck and Doug Jacobs both flew under
> > different #s, and all three of those guys have flown borrowed gliders
> > with totally different IDs. I agree names would help and the request
> > was a reasonable one to consider. In his defense, Burt (who's probably
> > been around soaring at least as long as I have) did close with a note
> > of appreciation for Tom.
> >
> > So there's some blame to go around. How about we end this thread with
> > "Tom, great job on the reporting; your audience would likely be even
> > larger if you used names of all pilots, but we understand it takes
> > time to hammer these things out" and "Burt, we appreciate the great
> > work you've done for soaring over the years and hope you continue to
> > be a tireless promoter of it so the few of us in this country who
> > enjoy it can do so in the future."
> >
> > And now that the weather has finally broken, maybe we can get back to
> > flying and avoid this stuff for a few months. :)
> >
> > Chip Bearden
> > JB
> > New Jersey, USA
> >

[[email protected]]

On Apr 24, 3:55 pm, Chip Bearden > wrote:
> I just came across this thread. At the risk of offending everyone:
>
> 1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
> Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...
> 2. Tom's response to Burt was uncalled for, even in a private email. I
> agree with Casey Lenox that I have not heard contest pilots put down
> non-contest pilots...but Tom's "go play instructor" is definitely a
> written put down.
> 3. Publishing a private email this way is generally wrong, and Burt
> shouldn't have done it, however offended he was. I agree, though, that
> Tom's sentiments reinforce the negative stereotype of contest pilots.
> 4. I've been flying competitively since 1968 but I don't know all the
> names today, much less the IDs. The top guys who've kept the same #s
> for years are familiar to many non-contest pilots; e.g., KS, DJ, XX.
> But I remember when Karl Striedieck and Doug Jacobs both flew under
> different #s, and all three of those guys have flown borrowed gliders
> with totally different IDs. I agree names would help and the request
> was a reasonable one to consider. In his defense, Burt (who's probably
> been around soaring at least as long as I have) did close with a note
> of appreciation for Tom.
>
> So there's some blame to go around. How about we end this thread with
> "Tom, great job on the reporting; your audience would likely be even
> larger if you used names of all pilots, but we understand it takes
> time to hammer these things out" and "Burt, we appreciate the great
> work you've done for soaring over the years and hope you continue to
> be a tireless promoter of it so the few of us in this country who
> enjoy it can do so in the future."
>
> And now that the weather has finally broken, maybe we can get back to
> flying and avoid this stuff for a few months. :)
>
> Chip Bearden
> JB
> New Jersey, USA

Right on chip!

MM
WBY

[Jay Pokorski]

> 1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
> Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...


We might have to agree to disagree at this point:

"or are these reports only for the insiders - the racing elite who
know the contest ID's?"

We should all remember that anyone who criticizes, or even critiques a
volunteer, especially in a public forum, is liable to "irritate" both
that volunteer and other potential volunteers. There's little to be
gained, and much to be lost.

Jay
R6

[Jack]

Jay Pokorski wrote:

> We should all remember that anyone who criticizes, or even critiques a
> volunteer, especially in a public forum, is liable to "irritate" both
> that volunteer and other potential volunteers. There's little to be
> gained, and much to be lost.

And the reader can almost always reasonably choose a benevolent or
malevolent interpretation. That is a well-known characteristic of
USENET/eMail.

There must be responsibility on both sides of the dialog.


Jack