Trip from F70 to L00 Thoughts?

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

I am planning a short hop from F70 to L00 via KSBD at 7500. L00 is 16
miles west of Edwards AFB and just on the hairy edge of the Isabelle
MOA. However, I think I am safe since the MOA is not active on
Saturday, and it look like L00 is under a ring that is clear of the
MOA up to 1500AGL. Other than flying over some Class D South East is
there anything else that I am missing? In particular around Edwards
AFB. I do not want to be on the news. :-)

I would be very grateful if you of you more experienced flyers could
take a peek at Skyvector and give me a rundown on your thoughts or
concerns? Do I have all my bases covered?



Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Aluckyguess]

Its no big deal. I have been there. Its a short flight from french valley.
"

[Marc J. Zeitlin]

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:

> I am planning a short hop from F70 to L00 via KSBD at 7500.

Which pass are you going through?

> .... However, I think I am safe since the MOA is not active on
> Saturday, and it look like L00 is under a ring that is clear of the
> MOA up to 1500AGL.

All true, but active or not, you can always fly through an MOA. I fly
out of KTSP and KMHV all the time, and there's rarely any military
traffic down low. Just keep your eyes open, which you should be doing
all the time anyway.

> ... Other than flying over some Class D South East is
> there anything else that I am missing? In particular around Edwards
> AFB. I do not want to be on the news. :-)

Just stay out of the restricted airspace R-2515 - the MOA is no
problem. Talk to Joshua Approach (124.55 from your direction) once
you get past the San Gabriels and get flight following - they'll tell
you where everyone is (if anyone's even around). On weekends, the
restricted area is usually cold and you can fly through at or above 6K
ft., if you feel like getting a good look at Edwards' 15K ft. long,
300 ft. wide Shuttle landing runway.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2007

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

>Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
>
>> I am planning a short hop from F70 to L00 via KSBD at 7500.
>
>Which pass are you going through?

I plan on flying through the Cajon Pass along the I15.


>> .... However, I think I am safe since the MOA is not active on
>> Saturday, and it look like L00 is under a ring that is clear of the
>> MOA up to 1500AGL.
>
>All true, but active or not, you can always fly through an MOA. I fly
>out of KTSP and KMHV all the time, and there's rarely any military
>traffic down low. Just keep your eyes open, which you should be doing
>all the time anyway.

Gotcha. I am scared of the UAVs and have never been comfortable with
MOA's.

>> ... Other than flying over some Class D South East is
>> there anything else that I am missing? In particular around Edwards
>> AFB. I do not want to be on the news. :-)
>
>Just stay out of the restricted airspace R-2515 - the MOA is no
>problem. Talk to Joshua Approach (124.55 from your direction) once
>you get past the San Gabriels and get flight following - they'll tell
>you where everyone is (if anyone's even around). On weekends, the
>restricted area is usually cold and you can fly through at or above 6K
>ft., if you feel like getting a good look at Edwards' 15K ft. long,
>300 ft. wide Shuttle landing runway.

So If I am above 6000 I can go right through the R-2515 area? I get
way freaked out with the MOA & Restricted stuff... I am gonna go dig
up my AIM/FAR and see what is says.



Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

>>Just stay out of the restricted airspace R-2515 - the MOA is no
>>problem. Talk to Joshua Approach (124.55 from your direction) once
>>you get past the San Gabriels and get flight following - they'll tell
>>you where everyone is (if anyone's even around). On weekends, the
>>restricted area is usually cold and you can fly through at or above 6K
>>ft., if you feel like getting a good look at Edwards' 15K ft. long,
>>300 ft. wide Shuttle landing runway.
>
>So If I am above 6000 I can go right through the R-2515 area? I get
>way freaked out with the MOA & Restricted stuff... I am gonna go dig
>up my AIM/FAR and see what is says.

Guess I should have added that I can go through after Jashua says I
can go through since they are the controlling agnecy.

>
>
>
>Mike Alexander
>PP-ASEL
>Temecula, CA
>See my online aerial photo album at
>http://flying.4alexanders.com


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Steve Schneider]

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
>>
>>>I am planning a short hop from F70 to L00 via KSBD at 7500.
>>
>>Which pass are you going through?
>
> I plan on flying through the Cajon Pass along the I15.
>
>>>.... However, I think I am safe since the MOA is not active on
>>>Saturday, and it look like L00 is under a ring that is clear of the
>>>MOA up to 1500AGL.
>>
>>All true, but active or not, you can always fly through an MOA. I fly
>>out of KTSP and KMHV all the time, and there's rarely any military
>>traffic down low. Just keep your eyes open, which you should be doing
>>all the time anyway.
>
> Gotcha. I am scared of the UAVs and have never been comfortable with
> MOA's.
>

From Fallbrook (L18) I'll normally fly to POM then V197 direct to PMD.
Going through Cajon Pass and then over towards Palmdale would actually
increase your exposure to potential UAV activity near Adelanto. See my
recent post under 'high winds in Palm Springs' regarding UAV activity
in the area. Personally, I have yet to spot one -- but that doesn't
mean they aren't on my six. :-) If you do overfly Palmdale (what
was that suggestion for knowing when your over a point? Roll inverted
and look up?) take a moment to scan the ramp. On various flights in
the past I've seen SR71s and U2s sitting on the tarmac there.

>>>... Other than flying over some Class D South East is
>>>there anything else that I am missing? In particular around Edwards
>>>AFB. I do not want to be on the news. :-)
>>
>>Just stay out of the restricted airspace R-2515 - the MOA is no
>>problem. Talk to Joshua Approach (124.55 from your direction) once
>>you get past the San Gabriels and get flight following - they'll tell
>>you where everyone is (if anyone's even around). On weekends, the
>>restricted area is usually cold and you can fly through at or above 6K
>>ft., if you feel like getting a good look at Edwards' 15K ft. long,
>>300 ft. wide Shuttle landing runway.
>

Calling Joshua Approach is excellent advice. Although I've yet to
be lucky enough to get permission to transit any of their restricted
airspace, they will help you avoid hazards in and around their
airspace.

If you're flying by pilotage, the 'shore' of the bone dry Rosamond Lake
is pretty well defined when viewed from the air, so you can easily
thread between Palmdale, Fox and and the restricted/MOA areas if you
are flying low -- just aim for the south west point of the lake.

> So If I am above 6000 I can go right through the R-2515 area? I get
> way freaked out with the MOA & Restricted stuff... I am gonna go dig
> up my AIM/FAR and see what is says.

You definitely want to talk to Joshua Approach -- do not just
'go right through' R-2515.

Not that one should count on this in general, but in the 'Midair
Collision Avoidance Handbook' provided by the Edwards test pilot
referenced in the Palm Springs thread, it says:

"Additionally, to avoid spilling out the lateral boundaries
of R-2508 Complex (the FAA frowns on such transgressions),
military pilots often give themselves a 3-5 mile buffer
along all boundaries."

For good reason, R-2508 itself is not depicted on the sectional since
it extends from FL200 on up. But the footprint matches basically all
of the Edwards resticted and MOA airspace depicted on the chart, hence
the entire collection of Edwards special use airpsace is referred to as
the R-2508 Complex.

So if the MOA is cold, a hot R-2515 should have a nice safety buffer
on the inside of the restricted area boarder. A comforting thought,
although it isn't guaranteed.

Have a safe flight.

Steve

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

> From Fallbrook (L18) I'll normally fly to POM then V197 direct to PMD.
>Going through Cajon Pass and then over towards Palmdale would actually
>increase your exposure to potential UAV activity near Adelanto. See my
>recent post under 'high winds in Palm Springs' regarding UAV activity
>in the area. Personally, I have yet to spot one -- but that doesn't
>mean they aren't on my six. :-) If you do overfly Palmdale (what
>was that suggestion for knowing when your over a point? Roll inverted
>and look up?) take a moment to scan the ramp. On various flights in
>the past I've seen SR71s and U2s sitting on the tarmac there.

Ah. Good info. Thanks. I will certainly take a look at the POM >
V197 and see what that does for me. The SR71 ain't got nothing on my
warrior. :-)



>Calling Joshua Approach is excellent advice. Although I've yet to
>be lucky enough to get permission to transit any of their restricted
>airspace, they will help you avoid hazards in and around their
>airspace.
>
>If you're flying by pilotage, the 'shore' of the bone dry Rosamond Lake
>is pretty well defined when viewed from the air, so you can easily
>thread between Palmdale, Fox and and the restricted/MOA areas if you
>are flying low -- just aim for the south west point of the lake.

It sound as if I don't fly over the lake and I should be ok. I was
actually thinking of skirting along mountain headed NW, and then when
clear of the Delta airspce head more northerly and intercept Rosemond
heading East. Flying at 6500/7500 and clearing the Delta and
decending for a direct in would be a fast descent. (My rambling
thoughhts...)

>> So If I am above 6000 I can go right through the R-2515 area? I get
>> way freaked out with the MOA & Restricted stuff... I am gonna go dig
>> up my AIM/FAR and see what is says.
>
>You definitely want to talk to Joshua Approach -- do not just
>'go right through' R-2515.
>
>Not that one should count on this in general, but in the 'Midair
>Collision Avoidance Handbook' provided by the Edwards test pilot
>referenced in the Palm Springs thread, it says:
>
> "Additionally, to avoid spilling out the lateral boundaries
> of R-2508 Complex (the FAA frowns on such transgressions),
> military pilots often give themselves a 3-5 mile buffer
> along all boundaries."
>
>For good reason, R-2508 itself is not depicted on the sectional since
>it extends from FL200 on up. But the footprint matches basically all
>of the Edwards resticted and MOA airspace depicted on the chart, hence
>the entire collection of Edwards special use airpsace is referred to as
>the R-2508 Complex.
>
>So if the MOA is cold, a hot R-2515 should have a nice safety buffer
>on the inside of the restricted area boarder. A comforting thought,
>although it isn't guaranteed.
>
>Have a safe flight.
>
>Steve


Thans for the info Steve, that is very helpful.

Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Aluckyguess]

Stop by KRAL and pick me up. I will go wth you. I will even buy lunch.
If you are interested email me. You can get my email @ kevinandrews.com

[Flyin'[email protected]]

Full flight this time. Maybe next time?

"Aluckyguess" > wrote:
> Stop by KRAL and pick me up. I will go wth you. I will even buy lunch.
> If you are interested email me. You can get my email @ kevinandrews.com

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com