What makes a successful aviator?

[Bob Moore]

Some excerpts from an interesting series of posts over on
rec.aviation.military.naval.


"...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical
engineering...."

"An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight
training."

"Actually it is true. Degree does not seem to matter. Back in the 80's
when I was working on a masters, I was also a contract simulator
instructor at my old training base (Chase) and did an analysis for my
statistics class of degrees vs completions. What I found was that
there was absolutley no correlation between the type of degree and the
succsess (or failure) of the prospective naval aviator."

"As a career Naval Aviator with experience, albeit dated, in both the
Training Command and OPNAV, I've watched this thread spin out with some
interest. As the Director of Research at the National Defense University
in one of my prior incarnations, I was privy to a study substantiating your
remarks. When launched on a quest to find the "Prime Indicator of Success"
- the Holy Grail of the Nugget Watchers - the study I am most familiar with
came up with the revolutionary but counterintuitive conclusion that it was
not being an Eagle Scout or a BS in AE or the kind of a baby that quit
nursing every time an airplane flew over but whether or not the candidate -
get this - had a paper route."

I personally delivered the morning paper for four years. :-)

Bob Moore

[[email protected]]

On Apr 19, 5:02 pm, Bob Moore > wrote:
> Some excerpts from an interesting series of posts over on
> rec.aviation.military.naval.
>
> "...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical
> engineering...."
>
> "An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight
> training."
>
> "Actually it is true. Degree does not seem to matter. Back in the 80's
> when I was working on a masters, I was also a contract simulator
> instructor at my old training base (Chase) and did an analysis for my
> statistics class of degrees vs completions. What I found was that
> there was absolutley no correlation between the type of degree and the
> succsess (or failure) of the prospective naval aviator."
>
> "As a career Naval Aviator with experience, albeit dated, in both the
> Training Command and OPNAV, I've watched this thread spin out with some
> interest. As the Director of Research at the National Defense University
> in one of my prior incarnations, I was privy to a study substantiating your
> remarks. When launched on a quest to find the "Prime Indicator of Success"
> - the Holy Grail of the Nugget Watchers - the study I am most familiar with
> came up with the revolutionary but counterintuitive conclusion that it was
> not being an Eagle Scout or a BS in AE or the kind of a baby that quit
> nursing every time an airplane flew over but whether or not the candidate -
> get this - had a paper route."
>
> I personally delivered the morning paper for four years. :-)
>
> Bob Moore

So does that mean you were paper trained?

[Matt Whiting]

Bob Moore wrote:

>
> I personally delivered the morning paper for four years. :-)

But have you ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?

Matt

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Matt Whiting > wrote in news:2SSVh.4022$Oc.201113
@news1.epix.net:

> Bob Moore wrote:
>
>>
>> I personally delivered the morning paper for four years. :-)
>
> But have you ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?
>

Shudder!

Don't mention the war..

Bertie

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Bob Moore" > wrote
>
> I personally delivered the morning paper for four years. :-)

Where I grew up, you had to have a car, and be able to drive, to have a
paper route. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

"Bob Moore" > wrote in message
46.128...
> Some excerpts from an interesting series of posts over on
> rec.aviation.military.naval.
>
>
> "...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical
> engineering...."
>
> "An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight
> training."
>
> "Actually it is true. Degree does not seem to matter. Back in the 80's
> when I was working on a masters, I was also a contract simulator
> instructor at my old training base (Chase) and did an analysis for my
> statistics class of degrees vs completions. What I found was that
> there was absolutley no correlation between the type of degree and the
> succsess (or failure) of the prospective naval aviator."
>
> "As a career Naval Aviator with experience, albeit dated, in both the
> Training Command and OPNAV, I've watched this thread spin out with some
> interest. As the Director of Research at the National Defense University
> in one of my prior incarnations, I was privy to a study substantiating
> your
> remarks. When launched on a quest to find the "Prime Indicator of Success"
> - the Holy Grail of the Nugget Watchers - the study I am most familiar
> with
> came up with the revolutionary but counterintuitive conclusion that it was
> not being an Eagle Scout or a BS in AE or the kind of a baby that quit
> nursing every time an airplane flew over but whether or not the
> candidate -
> get this - had a paper route."
>
> I personally delivered the morning paper for four years. :-)
>
> Bob Moore

Interesting.
My read on this based on the people I know who are both in, and have gone
through the program is that a lot of it depends on where you want to be
along your career path down the line a bit.
Engineering and Science degrees may not make a huge difference up front, but
for specialized Naval career paths such as TPS for example, or say outside
the aviation venue into the Nuclear Sub program , these degrees are almost
essential.
Dudley Henriques

[Sylvain]

Morgans wrote:

> Where I grew up, you had to have a car, and be able to drive, to have a
> paper route. <g>

how did you manage? I did that for a while, but using a mopped and it
turned out that my costs (keeping the thing running with gas and
insurance and spare parts, etc.) was higher than what I was making;
a bicycle would have been tricky (these dang papers are heavy);

--Sylvain

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Bob Moore wrote:
> When launched on a quest to find the "Prime Indicator of Success"
> - the Holy Grail of the Nugget Watchers - the study I am most familiar with
> came up with the revolutionary but counterintuitive conclusion that it was
> not being an Eagle Scout or a BS in AE or the kind of a baby that quit
> nursing every time an airplane flew over but whether or not the candidate -
> get this - had a paper route."
>
> I personally delivered the morning paper for four years. :-)


Amazing. Wen I think back to the paper boy who delivered our paper when I was
in high school, and how many times he crashed and burned trying to heave a paper
while riding his bike on our very steep hill all I can say is... "Naval
Aviation".



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Sylvain" > wrote>

> how did you manage? I did that for a while, but using a mopped and it
> turned out that my costs (keeping the thing running with gas and
> insurance and spare parts, etc.) was higher than what I was making;
> a bicycle would have been tricky (these dang papers are heavy);

I should have been more clear. I didn't manage. I would have had to ride
or pedal 50 miles or more (very rural) at around 4 AM, and without a car and
being old enough to drive, it would have been impossible. I let adults do
the paper thing. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Mxsmanic]

Nomen Nescio writes:

> I can tell you that when I was about 4 months from graduation (BS Mechanical
> Engineering), the Navy and Air Force were going BTTW to recruit me. I was
> wined and dined, lodged, toured, and even fixed up with a couple of
> attractive female officers. They were all going to train me to drive ANYTHING
> that I wanted, from F-16's to submarines (the coolest tour I got was a fast attack
> sub).
>
> All this time, I thought it was the Engineering degree. I guess they'd found out
> that I had spent 3 years slinging newsprint at 6 am.

It was probably neither of those things, since both are very common.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Nomen Nescio writes:
>
>> I can tell you that when I was about 4 months from graduation (BS
>> Mechanical Engineering), the Navy and Air Force were going BTTW to
>> recruit me. I was wined and dined, lodged, toured, and even fixed up
>> with a couple of attractive female officers. They were all going to
>> train me to drive ANYTHING that I wanted, from F-16's to submarines
>> (the coolest tour I got was a fast attack sub).
>>
>> All this time, I thought it was the Engineering degree. I guess
>> they'd found out that I had spent 3 years slinging newsprint at 6 am.
>
> It was probably neither of those things, since both are very common.

You are an idiot.


Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Bob Moore wrote:
> Some excerpts from an interesting series of posts over on
> rec.aviation.military.naval.
>
>
> "...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical
> engineering...."
>
> "An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight
> training."
>
> "Actually it is true. Degree does not seem to matter. Back in the 80's
> when I was working on a masters, I was also a contract simulator
> instructor at my old training base (Chase) and did an analysis for my
> statistics class of degrees vs completions. What I found was that
> there was absolutley no correlation between the type of degree and the
> succsess (or failure) of the prospective naval aviator."
>
> "As a career Naval Aviator with experience, albeit dated, in both the
> Training Command and OPNAV, I've watched this thread spin out with
> some interest. As the Director of Research at the National Defense
> University in one of my prior incarnations, I was privy to a study
> substantiating your remarks. When launched on a quest to find the
> "Prime Indicator of Success" - the Holy Grail of the Nugget Watchers -
> the study I am most familiar with came up with the revolutionary but
> counterintuitive conclusion that it was not being an Eagle Scout or a
> BS in AE or the kind of a baby that quit nursing every time an
> airplane flew over but whether or not the candidate - get this - had
> a paper route."
>
> I personally delivered the morning paper for four years. :-)
>
> Bob Moore

That doesn't surprise me a bit. Work ethic instilled at a young age. Sounds
about right for most undertakings.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Morgans wrote:
> "Bob Moore" > wrote
>>
>> I personally delivered the morning paper for four years. :-)
>
> Where I grew up, you had to have a car, and be able to drive, to have
> a paper route. <g>

It might be interesting to know if your area produced a lesser than normal
number of successful people.

Are there still places that use kids for paper routes anymore?

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder" < wrote

> It might be interesting to know if your area produced a lesser than
normal
> number of successful people.


I think that kids doing other jobs, showing hard work and responsibility,
would be an indicator just as valid as delivering papers.

In my area, (not NC, which is where I live now) many kids had jobs like
mowing yards, working for farmers during busy times, and shoveling snow.

I did all three, by the way. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Sylvain]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:

> Are there still places that use kids for paper routes anymore?

there is tough competition: what I was distributing was not the
morning paper, but essentially junk mail (''free'' paper loaded
with ads); nowdays, the local postman does it as part of the
normal route (brings a little extra I am told). Killed the
business as far as I was concerned.

--Sylvain

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Sylvain wrote:
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Are there still places that use kids for paper routes anymore?
>
> there is tough competition: what I was distributing was not the
> morning paper, but essentially junk mail (''free'' paper loaded
> with ads); nowdays, the local postman does it as part of the
> normal route (brings a little extra I am told). Killed the
> business as far as I was concerned.
>
> --Sylvain

The USPS employee is delivering the "Penny Saver" at the same time as his
mail route? This has got to be against dozens of postal service regulations.

[Maxwell]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...
> Sylvain wrote:
>> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Are there still places that use kids for paper routes anymore?
>>
>> there is tough competition: what I was distributing was not the
>> morning paper, but essentially junk mail (''free'' paper loaded
>> with ads); nowdays, the local postman does it as part of the
>> normal route (brings a little extra I am told). Killed the
>> business as far as I was concerned.
>>
>> --Sylvain
>
> The USPS employee is delivering the "Penny Saver" at the same time as his
> mail route? This has got to be against dozens of postal service
> regulations.

Depends on the agreement between the paper in question and the USPS. Lot's
of deals cut for blanket distribution through the USPS these days.
Advertising mail is by far the biggest part of there deliveries today.

[Sylvain]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:

> The USPS employee is delivering the "Penny Saver" at the same time as his
> mail route? This has got to be against dozens of postal service
> regulations.

it was not a USPS employee, I was not living in USA at the time; no idea
whether this violates any local regulation though.

--Sylvain

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Sylvain wrote:
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>> The USPS employee is delivering the "Penny Saver" at the same time
>> as his mail route? This has got to be against dozens of postal
>> service regulations.
>
> it was not a USPS employee, I was not living in USA at the time; no
> idea whether this violates any local regulation though.
>
> --Sylvain

Oh, OK

[Flyin'[email protected]]

"> The USPS employee is delivering the "Penny Saver" at the same time as
his
> mail route? This has got to be against dozens of postal service
> regulations.

Yup. Same here.

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com