flying in Argentina

[[email protected]]

A really exiting flight experience for pilots and their friends.

A flight adventure into the infinite width of the Argentine landscape.

More than 3,100 miles in approx. 27 flying hours.

A led x-country flight by seven different climatic and geographical
regions, in which you will set lifelong new yardsticks for your
aeronautical and personal horizon.

An adventure flight like once Antoine de Saint Exupery during his time
at the Aeroposta.

So long,

Bienvenido a Argentina y autorizado al despegue!!

let's give a look up: http://www.argentinafly.com and for any
questions let's contact me at anytime

Arturo

[Dallas]

On 21 Apr 2007 04:20:39 -0700, wrote:

> A really exiting flight experience for pilots and their friends.

It sounds like the exciting experience would be jumping through all the
flaming hoops of red tape:

QUALIFICATION

Flight experience: At least 150 hours as PIC 20 of it in the last 12
months.
Valid PPL and Medical (JAR FCL) Radio Operator Certificate
Valid passport (Minimum 3 months starting from arrival at Buenos Aires)
International health insurance accident insurance/return motion
Questionnaires form for announcing and general trading conditions signed
and dispatch.
For solo flyers sufficient Spanish knowledge and
Certified Logbook by the competent authorities and certified by the foreign
ministrty and the argentinine consular authorities of your home country.

--
Dallas

[Jose]

> It sounds like the exciting experience would be jumping through all the
> flaming hoops of red tape:
>
> QUALIFICATION
>
> Flight experience: At least 150 hours as PIC 20 of it in the last 12
> months.
> Valid PPL and Medical (JAR FCL) Radio Operator Certificate
> Valid passport (Minimum 3 months starting from arrival at Buenos Aires)
> International health insurance accident insurance/return motion
> Questionnaires form for announcing and general trading conditions signed
> and dispatch.
> For solo flyers sufficient Spanish knowledge and
> Certified Logbook by the competent authorities and certified by the foreign
> ministrty and the argentinine consular authorities of your home country.


I don't see anything onerous about these requirements - they are typical
of any tour group, modified for the case where the tourists are flying
through foreign airspace.

I would only wonder about two things:

1: the "JAR FCL" requirement. (is a US issued license, medical, and
radio license sufficient?)

2: What is this "questionnaire"? The sentence doesn't parse properly.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Dallas]

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 17:04:20 GMT, Jose wrote:

> I don't see anything onerous about these requirements

- For solo flyers sufficient Spanish knowledge

?
--
Dallas

[Jose]

> - For solo flyers sufficient Spanish knowledge

They don't want to have to provide translators in the plane with you.
This is a very reasonable requirement - you are alone in a foreign
country. Speak the language - at least well enough to get by.

The whole point of a "guided tour" is that the tour members depend on
the tour arrangers for certain things. They are being explicit that
basic language assistance is not one of those things if you choose to
fly alone.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[601XL Builder]

Jose wrote:
>> - For solo flyers sufficient Spanish knowledge
>
> They don't want to have to provide translators in the plane with you.
> This is a very reasonable requirement - you are alone in a foreign
> country. Speak the language - at least well enough to get by.
>
> The whole point of a "guided tour" is that the tour members depend on
> the tour arrangers for certain things. They are being explicit that
> basic language assistance is not one of those things if you choose to
> fly alone.
>
> Jose

But English is the official language for flight operations
internationally is it not?

[Jose]

> But English is the official language for flight operations internationally is it not?

It is. I think the concern isn't in-flight language, but rather, after
landing, when you need to find a bathroom or buy a taco. I suspect they
reasonably want you to be able to function in a Spanish speaking country
on your own.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 21, 6:22 pm, Jose > wrote:
> > But English is the official language for flight operations internationally is it not?
>
> It is. I think the concern isn't in-flight language, but rather, after
> landing, when you need to find a bathroom or buy a taco. I suspect they
> reasonably want you to be able to function in a Spanish speaking country
> on your own.
>
> Jose
> --
> Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Dear friends,

thank you Jose, you will became the first price as assistant, in fact,
you had understood the meaning of all.

but...

even English is an international ICAO language as well Spanish,
Russian, and French, the local aeronautical laws and regulations in
Argentina would not allow the foreign pilot to fly into national
airspace with a LV matriculated aircraft whiteout fluent Spanish
knowledge. May be would not be in accordance to ICAO norms but this is
a fact.

best regards

arturo

[GeorgeC[_2_]]

Do you have to be fluent in Spanish? Or maybe I should ask how fluent do I have
to be? I can get by in Spanish, we call it Tourist Spanish. I can find
something eat, find a hotel and rent a room. And the to most impotent Spanish
sentences.

Dos cervezas, por favor.
¿Dónde está el baño?


On 30 Apr 2007 01:25:59 -0700, wrote:

>Argentina would not allow the foreign pilot to fly into national
>airspace with a LV matriculated aircraft whiteout fluent Spanish
>knowledge.

GeorgeC

[[email protected]]

On Apr 30, 10:15 pm, GeorgeC > wrote:
> Do you have to be fluent in Spanish? Or maybe I should ask how fluent do I have
> to be? I can get by in Spanish, we call it Tourist Spanish. I can find
> something eat, find a hotel and rent a room. And the to most impotent Spanish
> sentences.
>
> Dos cervezas, por favor.
> ¿Dónde está el baño?
>
> On 30 Apr 2007 01:25:59 -0700, wrote:
>
> >Argentina would not allow the foreign pilot to fly into national
> >airspace with a LV matriculated aircraft whiteout fluent Spanish
> >knowledge.
>
> GeorgeC

well george,
is my English fluent or not? i guess it is not to write a novel, may
be enough to operate radio contact with a tower and very good to enjoy
a trip through miami :))

law requires fluent Spanish, i guess to avoid misunderstands during a
special VFR or Taxing a busy airport and so one. Well what is fluent?
will depend in fact on your own discretion and ultimately of the
authorities.

to avoid these bureaucratic steps and furthermore to help you, assist
and guide you, I willl enjoy the trip at your side, be your personal
assistant and will make sure, that you get a very confortable trip,
also with más cervezas if needed or eatch other desire ;)

saludos

arturo

[GeorgeC[_2_]]

Your English is just fine. Better that my Spanish. I would not try to enter
messages into a Spanish language Usenet. Keep up the good work and keep posting.
Were you able to read my Spanish? Your quote can back with the accent
characters and the e~ne (ene) as garbage. I thank my computer do not understand
Spanish.

It should have read:

Dos cervezas, por favor.
Donde esta el bano?

About the trip to Miami, You might have some trouble understating the Cuban
accent. :-). Once a Spaniard told me I sounded like a Mexican movie. I took it
as a compliment. I am sure he meant is as an insult. "So close to Mexico, so far
from God." :))

Thank you for your kind offer. I'm sure we could have lots of fun.

On 1 May 2007 04:11:51 -0700, wrote:

>On Apr 30, 10:15 pm, GeorgeC > wrote:
>> Do you have to be fluent in Spanish? Or maybe I should ask how fluent do I have
>> to be? I can get by in Spanish, we call it Tourist Spanish. I can find
>> something eat, find a hotel and rent a room. And the to most impotent Spanish
>> sentences.
>>
>> Dos cervezas, por favor.
>> ¿Dónde está el baño?
>>
>> On 30 Apr 2007 01:25:59 -0700, wrote:
>>
>> >Argentina would not allow the foreign pilot to fly into national
>> >airspace with a LV matriculated aircraft whiteout fluent Spanish
>> >knowledge.
>>
>> GeorgeC
>
>well george,
>is my English fluent or not? i guess it is not to write a novel, may
>be enough to operate radio contact with a tower and very good to enjoy
>a trip through miami :))
>
>law requires fluent Spanish, i guess to avoid misunderstands during a
>special VFR or Taxing a busy airport and so one. Well what is fluent?
>will depend in fact on your own discretion and ultimately of the
>authorities.
>
>to avoid these bureaucratic steps and furthermore to help you, assist
>and guide you, I willl enjoy the trip at your side, be your personal
>assistant and will make sure, that you get a very confortable trip,
>also with más cervezas if needed or eatch other desire ;)
>
> saludos
>
>arturo

GeorgeC

[Dallas]

On 1 May 2007 04:11:51 -0700, wrote:

> law requires fluent Spanish, i guess to avoid misunderstands during a
> special VFR or Taxing a busy airport and so one.

The ICAO has established that English is the de-facto language of
international air traffic control.

The ICAO will require as of March of 2008, all pilots flying
internationally and all Air Traffic Controllers must pass the ICAO level 4
language standards for English proficiency.

To be assessed at ICAO Level 4 English or above, a pilot or air traffic
controller must achieve Level 4 in all six of the ICAO skill areas:
Pronunciation, Structure, Vocabulary, Fluency, Comprehension and
Interactions.

So why do you have a law that requires fluent English speakers to become
fluent in Spanish?

--
Dallas

[GeorgeC[_2_]]

>also with más cervezas if needed or eatch other desire ;)

Maybe some place where they serve beer and at the same time can teach me the
tango. ]:-)

GeorgeC

[Dallas]

Arturo,

By the way, I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, I am just interested
in why a country would require Spanish fluency if ATC was fluent in
English.

(I used to live in Asunción, Paraguay so the requirement wouldn't be
unreasonably difficult for me. )

--
Dallas

[Steve Foley]

"Dallas" > wrote in message
...

>
> So why do you have a law that requires fluent English speakers to become
> fluent in Spanish?
>

I don't think they require you so speak spanish if you're flying an
N-numbered plane. It looks like that's a requirement to fly an LV-numbered
plane, and to participate (solo) in the tour.

From the website:

You can choose between following packages:
1.. Solo-Flight (only for Spanish speaking)
2.. the led "Classic Trip"(14 days)
3.. the led "Special Trip" (21Tage)
4.. Individually package
1.Solo Flight
As a condition are Spanish knowledge so that you will be able to radio
operations as communicate and understand without problems.
To operate Lima Victor (LV) registered airplanes you need an acknowledgment
of your JAA License for that again Spanish knowledge are necessary.

[GeorgeC[_2_]]

Try get a taxi to a hotel or find some fuel for your airplane in some rural
Mexican airport by speaking only ICAO level 4 English.

On Tue, 01 May 2007 19:06:06 GMT, Dallas >
wrote:

>On 1 May 2007 04:11:51 -0700, wrote:
>
>> law requires fluent Spanish, i guess to avoid misunderstands during a
>> special VFR or Taxing a busy airport and so one.
>
>The ICAO has established that English is the de-facto language of
>international air traffic control.
>
>The ICAO will require as of March of 2008, all pilots flying
>internationally and all Air Traffic Controllers must pass the ICAO level 4
>language standards for English proficiency.
>
>To be assessed at ICAO Level 4 English or above, a pilot or air traffic
>controller must achieve Level 4 in all six of the ICAO skill areas:
>Pronunciation, Structure, Vocabulary, Fluency, Comprehension and
>Interactions.
>
>So why do you have a law that requires fluent English speakers to become
>fluent in Spanish?

GeorgeC

[Cubdriver]

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:15:10 -0500, GeorgeC >
wrote:

>And the to most impotent Spanish
>sentences.

I spent January in Ushuaia, and I found that my Spanish was fairly
impotent, too.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

(By the way, the GA airport in Ushuaia runs north-south, in a part of
the world where the wind blows strong east-west, given that it has the
whole world around to get up speed. It's a hoot watching the light
planes on final.)