Sun N Fun '07 Redux

[Jay Honeck]

Mary and I just returned from 6 glorious days at Sun N Fun in
Lakeland, FL, where we enjoyed the most amazingly perfect weather I
have ever seen at such an event. The nights were cool (almost cold
the first few nights) -- perfect for sleeping -- and the days were
sunny and warm. No humidity, no bugs, no alligators -- just lots and
lots of aircraft!

Here are a few high points, in no particular order, for those who may
have missed the show:

- Lots of rec.aviation newsgroupies were there! I personally ran
into many, and we had a great time getting to know one another. Some
were old friends, like Bob Moore (who we had meet at SNF '03 & '04),
but others were completely new to us. It was great to see you all!

As has been my continuing experience, all were perfectly wonderful
folks, and Mary and I really enjoyed spending time with them all. (We
spent several hours watching the airshow with Marcus, a Diamond pilot
from Germany, and were even able to show him Atlas for a few minutes.
Marcus is mostly a lurker here, but he will live forever in my memory
as a perfect gentleman, and the only German I've ever met who didn't
like beer!)
:-)

My only regret -- somehow we once again managed to miss meeting Orval
F. I know he was there, because I heard from others that he was
looking for me -- but we just zigged and zagged all week long, dang
it.

- There were a lot of people from Iowa City there! It was almost like
hanging out at our airport, cuz we kept running into "locals" --
usually at the margarita tent, natch... ;-)

- For the first time EVER, we had perfect weather all the way down AND
back. (It's always been "7 hours down, 3-days back" -- or vice versa
-- in the past.)

We departed Iowa last Sunday, mid-day, after waiting for that huge
storm (that later pummeled the East Coast) to drift east. On the
backside of the front we enjoyed 190-knot ground-speeds in perfectly
smooth air all the way to Tallahassee, where we spent the night.

- That wonderful tail wind made for a helluva landing challenge in
Tallahassee. With the winds gusting over 30 knots, and a 60 degree
crosswind, I had my hands full. I was literally flipping the yoke lock-
to-lock to keep the wings level, turning base-to-final...it was wild!
As is usually the case, however, it turned out to be my best landing
of the trip, thanks to working my butt off. Funny how the easy ones
can turn into thumpers, simply because you're relaxed...

- The 496's weather capabilities made the flight down pure joy. With
that giant storm stretching from Minnesota to the Gulf, we were able
to "play" the storm by watching the live satellite and radar map, and
simply steered down the clear area on the backside fo the front.
Although you COULD do this visually, over such a wide area you would
inevitably have run into areas of diminished visibility or precip.
Now with the 496, which paid for itself on the way to SNF.

- En route we stopped in Jackson, MS for a late lunch, and to wait for
the storm to drift a bit farther east. The airport there was very
nice, but we could not understand a single word ANYONE said to us once
we left the airport grounds. I am NOT kidding -- all we could say
was "Excuse me?" over and over again. It was like being in a foreign
country! The fried chicken was outstanding, however... mmm...

- Arriving at SNF on Monday morning was a piece of cake. The Lake
Parker arrival procedure is simplicity itself, and I was glad to hear
that they were literally reading the NOTAM on the ATIS. Even better,
the controllers were not insisting on "keeping it in tight", which
always makes for an extremely tight turn to final -- not good for
folks who are hot, heavy, and stressed.

- Despite this, there was a fatal accident on approach to Rwy 27, when
a Wheeler homebuilt spun in turning base-to-final. We saw the huge
pall of furiously-churning black smoke, and knew right away what had
happened. Very sad.

- Attendance early in the week was waaaay down from the other years we
attended. We were camped in Row 6 (that's not a typo), and they
didn't fill up beyond Row 9 until Friday. Compared to OSH, where
we're camped in Row 300-something, it's remarkably different.

- Despite this, the campground seemed terribly disorganized this
year. The aircraft camping area at SNF is directly adjacent to a
regular RV/tent year-round campground, which is usually a good thing.
(Real showers, for example!) This year, however, the camp store
vendor did not show up -- or was never contracted -- no one knew.

No store meant very bad things for aircraft campers because, unlike
OSH, campers at SNF are completely at the mercy of the event planners
-- the Lakeland Airport is out in the middle of no where, and you are
NOT walking over to "Friar Tucks" for dinner!

Therefore, the AWOL camp store was a "Big Deal", since we were unable
to get ice or (gasp!) beer. Thankfully, because we were working a
booth with our friends at Flying Colors Glass, they were able to drive
us off-field to a local grocery store, where we stocked up on the
essentials. Others were not so lucky, and much griping was heard
until, later in the week, some local non-profit organization stepped
in and started bringing in supplies from the local Winn-Dixie store.

- Another example: The porta-potties in the aircraft camping area
actually ran out of TOILET PAPER! This is the absolute, number one,
top-of-the-list NO-NO for ANY event, and it happened -- thankfully for
a relatively brief several-hour period.

- The Warbirds were practically a no-show this year, for reasons
unknown. The largest bomber on the field was a B-25, and he
inexplicably did not fly in the warbird show. Organizers were forced
to use a (very nice, but totally wrong) C-47/DC-3 in the "bomber"
role, and T-28 trainers and L-39 Czech jet trainers in the "fighter"
roles, with just two P-51s and a (very nice) Spitfire rounding out the
line-up. Unless they showed up after we left Saturday morning, there
wasn't a single B-17 in attendance.

- The British equivalent of the Civil Air Patrol sent a squadron or
two to help park planes in the camping area. They did a very nice
job, although when we departed I was helped (in pulling Atlas out into
the row) by a fine young Brit who was clearly miffed because Sun N Fun
had taken their golf cart privileges away, after one of their members
had apparently been driving a bit over the top recklessly. As
anyone who has ever parked planes at an airshow knows, you NEED a golf
cart (or equivalent) to get around, or you will be dead in two hours
-- and these kids were headed that way... I hope they won their
driving privileges back after we left!

- The vendors were every bit as good as OSH, but there were (of
course) fewer of them. They seemed pleased with the turnout, although
I heard grumblings from folks out in the "Fly Market" (or whatever
they call it at SNF) that the crowd was cut off from them by the
layout of food tents and the postal service trailer.

- Mini-rant: Why does SNF (and OSH) continue to allow non-aviation
vendors into the buildings? The guy selling the big, extendable
ladders was there, again, and the ubiquitous extendable flag-pole guy
wasn't far away. Put these shills out in the Fly Market, with the
cookware and luggage vendors, where they belong!

- Mini-rant #2: AOPA hired an aircraft with a moving-light sign on
the bottom to fly over the grounds, advertising Phil Boyer's "town
hall meeting" at the SNF theater. Unfortunately, the pilot would do
nice, quiet slow flight down Rwy 27, until he got all the way to the
end -- where he would jam the throttle forward and do a high-
performance turn-around to get lined back up with the show line.

Apparently in the dark he didn't know that he was turning directly
over the campground, and keeping everyone awake with his engine
antics! Even with ear-plugs (a fly-in necessity) it was hard to
sleep.

- Good deal: We were able to take advantage of Aircraft Spruce's (very
smart) emailed coupon when we bought a replacement for our COM 2. (A
simple-but-nice TKM MX-11, digital flip-flop slide-in replacement for
our hinky Narco COM 120.)

- Bad deal: In the brand-new Spruce catalog, the price for the MX-11
is listed as $819. At first they agreed to honor that price, but in
the end they would not, as the price had "recently gone up" to $893 --
a whopping 9% difference between advertised and actual price.
Despite this bait & switch tactic, I bought the radio from them,
because with the aforementioned coupon they were still cheaper than
anyone else on the field. But the experience left a bad taste in my
mouth.

- Best deal: The guys at the JPI booth sold us an outside air
temperature probe for our EDM-700 engine analyzer for $100 bucks --
fully $60 cheaper than I've seen anywhere. (It'll be good to get rid
of our "prong" thermometer sticking through the windshield.)

- There was no "Big Deal Thing" at SNF this year. No new 596, or any
whiz-bang, must-have item. In fact, the biggest news was that Lowrance
and AvMap once again did NOT introduce XM weather capability.

- XM radio was there in force, with a great deal -- a FREE car radio
kit, when you add-on another radio subscription for $6.95 more per
month. We didn't take advantage, but lots of people were lining up.

- Light Sport Aircraft were EVERYWHERE. We were able to take a close
look at Cessna's new LSA (and their next generation GA plane), but
they were overshadowed by the European manufacturers, who seemed to
have an LSA in every shape and size, no matter which direction you
looked.

- The single-engine PiperJet is very, very cool. Given the inherent
reliability of jet engines, I don't know why that single-engine-in-the-
tail configuration hasn't been tried yet.

- It's getting harder and harder to tell an ultralight from an LSA
from a small GA plane.

- Angel Flight went cheese-cake this year, with an absolutely drop-
dead gorgeous model dressed up like an "angel", promoting their
services. She was falling out of her dress everywhere, and it was
wonderful... ;-)

- In the "Coolest Guy to Meet" category, Mary and I met Erik
Lindbergh, grandson of Charles, when he wandered into the Flying
Colors Glass tent. We spoke with him for over 30 minutes about
everything under the aviation sun, from creating our Charles Lindbergh
Suite, to our efforts to save our Boeing/United Hangar, to helping
grow GA flying. He's a fascinating, unassuming young man who is using
his famous name to better GA -- and we should all be thankful for him.

- Coolest formation of the week -- a DC-3 with four Yak/Nanching
radial warbirds off each wing, flying over our tent at about 100 AGL.
I've got a video of it I'll post later that (hopefully) captured it.

- Coolest overflight of the week -- Kyle(?) Franklin flying aerobatics
in a Twin Beech (really!) came over our campsite at MAYBE 50 AGL. I
*felt* the overflight as much as heard/saw it -- and also (hopefully)
captured it on video tape!

- Regret of the week. We missed the night airshow because we were
attending the off-site Flying Colors Glass party. Actually, I was
happily pressed into service to work as grill-meister on the bratwurst
(brought in special from Wisconsin, of course). It was a great party,
but I have STILL never seen a night air show!

- Observation of the week: Thanks to the hotel, there are now people
who look like people we know EVERYWHERE. We saw folks we *thought* we
knew all over the grounds. Sometimes they WERE the folks we knew, but
most often they were people who looked almost just like them. We
waved and shouted at one couple (who clearly thought we were crazy)
because they looked JUST LIKE two good friends of ours. It was
creepy.

- 2nd Observation: Having the aircraft camping area located at the
end of SNF's single active runway may not be the smartest thing. At
OSH, the daily airshows are held over Rwy 18/36, while the bulk of the
camping area is at the end of Rwy 27. This positioning would protect
campers from most airshow mishaps.

Not so at SNF, as they close their only other runway (5/23), meaning
that the airshow is performed directly over -- and at -- the
campground.

Although they don't camp planes directly in line with the end of the
runway, because of crosswinds an out-of-control aircraft, or even a
long landing or engine-out incident could go directly into the camping
area, with great loss of life/property. This was graphically brought
home to me while watching (and filming) the very cool Twin Beech
routine.

- The food at SNF continues to be head-and-shoulders above Oshkosh.
Part of this is necessary -- there are NO off-field options -- but
part of it is just good planning. We had some of the best Greek food
we've had ANYWHERE -- a gyros that was to die for, and some fantastic
shish-kebob -- and the fresh shrimp was great, too. Best of all,
there was a real, live SALAD BAR on the field, which meant that -- for
at least one meal -- you didn't have to eat deep-fried-greasy food.

- Jimmy Buffet's Margaritaville is gone, but in its place was an
establishment every bit as good, serving Pina Coladas, Strawberry
Daquiris, and Margaritas. By Day Two we were settled into a schedule
that included a mid-afternoon Pina Colada break, whilst comfortably
ensconced in an adirondack chair, soaking up that fantastic Florida
sunshine. It was heaven.

- The beer served on the field was....appalling. You could have any
beer you'd like, as long as it was made with...rice. Luckily, pina
coladas are mighty tasty, too.

As an aside, the ability to enjoy an adult beverage on the field is
one of the simple pleasures that Oshkosh should learn and embrace.
And the money raised, at $8 bucks a pop, is substantial, I'm sure.

- Idiots In Golf Carts (we call them "IGiCs") were EVERYWHERE again,
as well as gators and personal vehicles. Apparently someone is going
to have to die before event organizers ban these abominations from the
field. If you can't walk, rent one of those electric scooters -- and
stay the hell off my heels!

- Despite this, we could not bring our bicycles on the grounds during
the day. This wasn't a terrible hardship, but seemed to present an
interesting double standard.

- Bringing the bikes was a Godsend. Because we didn't have the kids
with us (thanks to Montblack!), we were able to remove the back seats
from Atlas and bring our full-sized mountain bikes (actually our kids'
bikes), which made getting to the showers and the front gate much
easier.

- Florida saw grass WILL cut through the bottom of your ground cloth,
tent, sock, and foot, with alarming ease. Make sure you stomp it all
down BEFORE setting up your tent.

- Departing LAL was simplicity itself, although the wait was
substantial. We usually wait to leave until the last day, but we had
to be back to Iowa by Sunday, which meant leaving on the busiest day.
As a result, we taxied/idled for over 45 minutes before departure. (A
Spitfire ahead of us shut his engine down after 20 minutes...)

- Having the year-round campground adjacent to the aircraft campground
makes for some interesting conversations. Unlike OSH, everyone you
meet in the shower isn't a pilot, and it was fascinating to meet guys
who owned $200K motor homes who thought owning an airplane must be
prohibitively expensive. We NEED to do a better job of educating the
public about GA!

- Alligator is absolutely delicious. I'd never had it before, and it
was succulent, juicy, and tasted a lot like chicken, but with the
consistency of beef.

- Sleeping on an 8-inch airbed makes camping on the field every bit as
comfortable as a motel. In fact, it was MORE comfortable than the bed
in the motel in Tallahassee.

- Clamp-on umbrellas (that attach to your chair) are absolutely
necessary in the Florida sunshine. Luckily, we brought two.

- Jim Fisher (formerly a VERY active member of this group) is still
alive and well, and we dropped in on him in Muscle Shoals, AL on our
way home. Unannounced, of course! Nonetheless, he dropped everything
and let us take him out to lunch. As planned, he had just eaten -- so
we got off cheap!
:-)

- The housing market around Lakeland is very unusual, by midwest
standards. We saw million-dollar homes built adjacent to ramshackle
trailers, and no apparent consistency in how things are built.
"Zoning" ordinances are apparently a foreign concept, which is both
good and bad.

- Maybe partially as a result of these zoning quirks, the housing
market isn't as crazy as we thought it would be. We attended a party
at South Lakeland Airport, a private 4000' grass strip surrounded by
homes with hangars, where they fly everything from King Airs to
ultralights. It is still possible to buy a home with a hangar there
for around $350K -- far less than I would have believed.

- Much of Florida is still completely undeveloped. Between
Tallahassee and Lakeland there is a lot of absolutely nothing except
trees, even along the sunny Gulf Coast.

- Sun N Fun isn't Oshkosh -- nothing can come close to OSH -- and
that's a good thing. It's a fantastic fly-in, and is just different
enough to be worth doing without stealing any thunder from
AirVenture. I wish it were earlier in the spring, but I understand
why they have pushed it back to April -- the weather is just TOO
unpredictable in February/March to guarantee attendance.

Thanks to Montblack (for keeping an eye on our kids while were gone)
it was a great time, and we met a lot of fantastic people -- many from
this very newsgroup. Our taste has been wetted for OSH, and we can't
wait for July!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dale Alexander]

> - Sun N Fun isn't Oshkosh -- nothing can come close to OSH -- and
> that's a good thing. It's a fantastic fly-in, and is just different
> enough to be worth doing without stealing any thunder from
> AirVenture. I wish it were earlier in the spring, but I understand
> why they have pushed it back to April -- the weather is just TOO
> unpredictable in February/March to guarantee attendance.
>

Thanks Jay. I felt like I'd been there.

I had a similiar experience years ago in the San Francisco bay area. The
Blue Angels (very sorry to hear of their recent loss) were coming to town
for their air show at Moffett Field. Not wishing to stand sardine-like with
400,000 other people, I elected to go to an airshow that was out in the
valley (Turlock I believe) also on the same weekend. 5,000 people tops, no
wait to view static displays and everywhere was a front row seat to the
show.

The road less traveled made all the difference...

Dale Alexander

[Jay Honeck]

> >She was falling out of her dress everywhere, and it was
> >wonderful... ;-)
>
> you sure made the *right* pictures, I suppose.

Alas, no pix. With Mary on my arm at all times, whipping out my Canon
(so to speak) would have been problematic...

;-)

> how is Montblack doing? *grin*

Dunno. But he boogied on out of here within an hour after we landed
yesterday, if that gives you any clue!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> The road less traveled made all the difference...

Well, Dale, I'm not sure anyone would call SNF the "road less
traveled", as it is the SECOND biggest aviation celebration in the
world!

The only thing that could make it look small would be Oshkosh.
Compared to everything else, it's gargantuan...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith[_2_]]

In article om>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:

> > how is Montblack doing? *grin*
>
> Dunno. But he boogied on out of here within an hour after we landed
> yesterday, if that gives you any clue!

There is a story to be told sometime, I'm sure.
RAP Party, AirVenture 2007, maybe?

[Jose]

> - Mini-rant #2: AOPA hired an aircraft with a moving-light sign on
> the bottom to fly over the grounds, advertising Phil Boyer's "town
> hall meeting" at the SNF theater. Unfortunately, the pilot would do
> nice, quiet slow flight down Rwy 27, until he got all the way to the
> end -- where he would jam the throttle forward and do a high-
> performance turn-around to get lined back up with the show line.
>
> Apparently in the dark he didn't know that he was turning directly
> over the campground, and keeping everyone awake with his engine
> antics! Even with ear-plugs (a fly-in necessity) it was hard to
> sleep.

What? A complaint about =airplane= noise? From a pilot? Jay, no less?
At an airshow?

Whodathunkit?

> - Sleeping on an 8-inch airbed makes camping on the field every bit as
> comfortable as a motel. In fact, it was MORE comfortable than the bed
> in the motel in Tallahassee.

What kind of airbed do you use? I find them to be appalling - I sink to
the ground in the middle, and all the air goes out to the sides, so I
sleep sort of folded up. Even if it's pumped up hard.

> - Much of Florida is still completely undeveloped. Between
> Tallahassee and Lakeland there is a lot of absolutely nothing except
> trees, even along the sunny Gulf Coast.

I suspect there's a good reason for that. I think a lot of Florida is
sort of low and swampy.

> - Sun N Fun isn't Oshkosh -- nothing can come close to OSH...

I was at SnF a few years ago, and had a great time. It seems you had a
smaller version. What do you get at Oshkosh that you don't get at SnF
(besides mosquitos the size of thunderstorms, and thunderstorms the size
of small states?)

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[K Baum]

>
> Here are a few high points, in no particular order, for those who may
> have missed the show:

Jay, thanks for the post. I was only there for two days, and it is
great to "relive" the show through your post. This was the first time
there for me, and I had read in various places that the attendance has
been steadily declining. Thanks for that perspective.
>
> - Attendance early in the week was waaaay down from the other years we
> attended. >
>
>
> - Light Sport Aircraft were EVERYWHERE. We were able to take a close
> look at Cessna's new LSA (and their next generation GA plane), but
> they were overshadowed by the European manufacturers, who seemed to
> have an LSA in every shape and size, no matter which direction you
> looked.

So true about the LSA,s. Took a ride in the Legend Cub, and I can
definetly see why they cant keep up with the orders. And IMHO the
workmanship outclassed the stuff from Eastern Europe. I was facinated
with all the VLJ,s. My budy and I were offered jobs at both the
Eclipse tent and the Diamond tent. It seems that they have some pretty
low time pilots who are ordering these jets, so they have set up a
pilot mentor program for new owners to fly with experienced pilots for
awhile. I think the insurance companies are playing a big role in this
program.
To go off on a "Mini rant", as you put it, there was no Honda Jet
(Although they had a huge display of Honda generators, go figure). I
own a big chunk of HMC stock, and it would have been nice to see where
my investment was going ;).

As an added bonus, got some good deals on avionics, and the WX was
better than OSH. Thanks again for the post.

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Mary and I just returned from 6 glorious days at Sun N Fun in
> Lakeland, FL, where we enjoyed the most amazingly perfect weather I
> have ever seen at such an event. The nights were cool (almost cold
> the first few nights) -- perfect for sleeping -- and the days were
> sunny and warm. No humidity, no bugs, no alligators -- just lots and
> lots of aircraft!

Yeah, go ahead, rub it in...no, wait, you already did that...in my case,
twice! :-)

> - The single-engine PiperJet is very, very cool. Given the inherent
> reliability of jet engines, I don't know why that single-engine-in-the-
> tail configuration hasn't been tried yet.
Did they have the mock-up on display? Saw it at the AOPA convention in
Palm Springs and it was very cool to see.

> - Coolest overflight of the week -- Kyle(?) Franklin flying aerobatics
> in a Twin Beech (really!) came over our campsite at MAYBE 50 AGL. I
> *felt* the overflight as much as heard/saw it -- and also (hopefully)
> captured it on video tape!
Looking forward to the footage. Sounds *very* cool.

> The food at SNF continues to be head-and-shoulders above Oshkosh.
Doesn't take much to get above Oshkosh in terms of on-site food.

> Best of all,
> there was a real, live SALAD BAR on the field, which meant that -- for
> at least one meal -- you didn't have to eat deep-fried-greasy food.
Hmmm, did you partake of said salad bar vs. deep-fried-greasy?

> Thanks to Montblack (for keeping an eye on our kids while were gone)
Are you sure it wasn't the other way around? Perhaps the "Black" half
of the duo from the Twin Cities conveniently arranged to send "Mont"
your way and paid the kids a handsome price to watch him for a week :-)

> it was a great time, and we met a lot of fantastic people -- many from
> this very newsgroup. Our taste has been wetted for OSH, and we can't
> wait for July!

Heh...3 months baby!


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[muff528]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Mary and I just returned from 6 glorious days at Sun N Fun in
> Lakeland, FL, where we enjoyed the most amazingly perfect weather I
> have ever seen at such an event. The nights were cool (almost cold
> the first few nights) -- perfect for sleeping -- and the days were
> sunny and warm. No humidity, no bugs, no alligators -- just lots and
> lots of aircraft!...................
>

Happy to hear you made it home safely.
I took a day off on Friday to attend SnF
with my parents. (We try to avoid the
weekend crowds and traffic.)
I did intend to look you up even though I'm
a sporadic poster on this group at best.
However, we were there most of the morning
and I think the heat was beginning to get to my
folks so we called it a day shortly after noon.
They're both in their 80's. I think my dad
was disappointed that there was no B-17
although he did like the authentically restored
Stearman. He did his first solo in one of those.

Also- I wonder if the new format affected
the attendance. This year the event runs from
mid-week to mid-week rather than from
weekend to weekend. I'm not sure of the
reasoning behind that but I suppose there
are advantages and disadvantages either way.
It did seem that there were fewer attendees
flying in but the spectator crowd on Friday
seemed rather large. (At least the parking lots
seemed full for a weekday).

Blue'ns, Tony P.

[Travis Marlatte]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Mary and I just returned from 6 glorious days at Sun N Fun in

I am not the big fly-in fan that some of you are. I would love to spend time
with the planes and the vendors but the mass of people just get on my
nerves.

One thing that caught my attention was the number of small, mom&pop
companies making digital display instrumentation. If they've been around for
a while, I hadn't noticed. Must be great for the experimental guys. I
presume that most of them are not certified but I haven't even started
visiting web sites from the literature I bagged.

My favorite vendor was the notepad on a wriststrap. If he has been at other
fly-ins, I missed that too. I'm guessing that the husband dragged the wife
into it. I would love to know what she is really thinking.

The owner's fly-in for the Lake (www.lakeflyers.com) is usually in February
but they (we) moved it to coincide with Sun 'n Fun. I went down last
Thursday. A weekend of enjoying the many, many Florida lakes, workshops,
forums, and conversation focused on my baby followed by a week of Sun 'n
Fun. Even if Sun 'n Fun is dwindling, the combination of activities over the
weekend and week really got me going!

One of the Lake owners coordinates the seaplane base and the spash in. I
enjoyed the splash in thoroughly but was also disappointed. It seemed like a
very sparse showing of seaplanes and the crowd was pretty thin. I'm planning
on spending a few days at OSH just so I can camp at the seaplane base.

Coming back, I took a more easterly route. Actually, it was straight north
but that is easterly of the straightline from LAL to PWK. Managed to come
across the wild fires burning in southern Georgia. A huge area of swamp on
fire creating massive amounts of smoke. Continuing straight north into the
hills south of Knoxville. Wandering around from mountain lake to mountain
lake. Although it was very hazy, I thought it was breathtaking. My first
time in that area. I can't wait to plan a vacation there.

This was my first time flying to Florida where I didn't need to file IFR for
at least a few hours. Amazing weather. Low deck but VFR flying into clear
skys with a 30kt tailwind on the way down. Good VFR and not a killer
headwind on the way back. Again, Amazing.

Thanks for your post Jay. Good summary. Good to meet you and Mary.

-------------------------------
Travis Marlatte
Lake N3094P
PWK

[Jay Honeck]

> What? A complaint about =airplane= noise? From a pilot? Jay, no less?
> At an airshow?
>
> Whodathunkit?

I know it's funny -- Mary and I had a good laugh about it, as we were
cursing the pilot. It was SO ironic that Boyer would hire someone to
do his publicity in a way that created such ire.

But it was entirely innocently done. The pilot had NO idea what was
under him, in the dark, as he pushed the power forward. All he wanted
to do was get his "target" runway back underneath him...

> What kind of airbed do you use? I find them to be appalling - I sink to
> the ground in the middle, and all the air goes out to the sides, so I
> sleep sort of folded up. Even if it's pumped up hard.

I'm not sure of the brand, but I think it may be Coleman. It does
appear to be optimally designed for two people -- when one of us gets
up, the other sinks dramatically. (Although we won't "bottom out"
unless the bed isn't inflated sufficiently.)

Nevertheless it is vastly superior to the old foam roll-up mattresses,
or (worse) the old blow-up air mattresses. The new ones come with
their own battery-powered blower, and we never added air all week.
They've really got seam-sealing technology perfected in the last few
years.

We've taken to bringing them on motel stays with the kids, as they
prefer the comfort of the air bed over any roll-away or pull-out
couch.

> > - Much of Florida is still completely undeveloped. Between
> > Tallahassee and Lakeland there is a lot of absolutely nothing except
> > trees, even along the sunny Gulf Coast.
>
> I suspect there's a good reason for that. I think a lot of Florida is
> sort of low and swampy.

Lots of it is pulp mill forests, too. It's quite pretty, and
unexpected in "the Sunshine State".

> I was at SnF a few years ago, and had a great time. It seems you had a
> smaller version. What do you get at Oshkosh that you don't get at SnF
> (besides mosquitos the size of thunderstorms, and thunderstorms the size
> of small states?)

We had a fantastic time at SNF, but there are many things about OSH
that are simply superior to SNF, and many things that are simply
different. Off the top of my head, I would say the superior things
are:

- Runway Layout. OSH, having two major runways, plus several little
ones that can be closed during the show, is superior to LAL that has
only two runways.

This sounds trivial, but it's not. Being able to utilize two runways
simultaneously means that the airshow flows better in OSH, the inbound
and outbound traffic flows better, it provides much more airspace to
operate, and thus it's safer.

- Size matters. If you want to see EVERYTHING in aviation, you can
get it at OSH. If you want to see lots of things in aviation, SNF
will do. That's not the same.

- Ground Transportation. OSH has the art of people moving down to a
real science. Everyone, from the State Troopers out on Hwy 41, to the
newest volunteer, understands that keeping the crowd and traffic
flowing is essential.

If you ever drive into OSH, you'll see what I mean, as they have
entire thoroughfares that become one-way in (or out), depending on the
demands of the AirVenture grounds.

There's even a helicopter in the air at all times, directing which
parking lots and roads should be released next, so that traffic never
bogs unnecessarily. It's just an amazing system that has evolved over
many years.

And the tram system at OSH is simply outstanding, while the trams at
SNF are okay at best.

- Grounds Layout. The OSH grounds are laid out in a very logical grid
that makes navigating around the immense show area simple. SNF,
though smaller, is more difficult to navigate, simply because things
are not laid out on a grid.

- EAA. Say what you will about it, EAA is a class act, with a HUGE
resource of volunteers. This gives OSH a focus and an esprit de corps
that SNF doesn't seem to have.

I liken SNF to a frat party -- pretty well done, but not overly
thought out -- while OSH is more like a shareholder's meeting.
Everything is PERFECT at OSH, and has been for many, many years. SNF
is still trying to get it just right.

- Tradition. OSH is the grand old lady of fly-ins, and everyone from
the FAA on down seems to know the routine. People revel in OSH, and
take owndership of it, and wear its attendance like a red badge of
courage. Although I love it dearly, SNF is a distant second in this
regard.

I like Sun N Fun a lot -- it is a fantastic way to start off the
aviation "season" -- but it's still got a long ways to go to match
OSH.

Incidentally, in 25 years of attendance, I've only found the mosquitos
at OSH to be annoying once -- when we were parked next to a drainage
ditch in an unusually wet year. Most of the time they are simply not
an issue.

And weather? I've had far tougher weather getting to/from SNF than
I've ever had at OSH. April weather is simply wild, compared to July.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> They're both in their 80's. I think my dad
> was disappointed that there was no B-17

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

> Also- I wonder if the new format affected
> the attendance. This year the event runs from
> mid-week to mid-week rather than from
> weekend to weekend. I'm not sure of the
> reasoning behind that but I suppose there
> are advantages and disadvantages either way.
> It did seem that there were fewer attendees
> flying in but the spectator crowd on Friday
> seemed rather large. (At least the parking lots
> seemed full for a weekday).

Yeah, we saw more arrivals on Friday then we did the previous few
days. I suspect that part of that was due to the big storm that sat
in the East for a few days, and part of that was simply people coming
in for a 3-day weekend.

SNF seems to get a LOT more people from the Eastern Seaboard than OSH
does, so any weather affecting that area is going to hurt SNF badly.

Saturday looked to be getting very busy, too, but we were off the
ground by 10 AM, so I don't know how it eventually panned out.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Thanks for your post Jay. Good summary. Good to meet you and Mary.

Thanks, Travis. Same here!

Now, plan on Wednesday at OSH, for the rec.aviation party!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jose]

> It was SO ironic that Boyer would hire someone to
> do his publicity in a way that created such ire.

Well, that's how non-pilots feel about noise over their house near the
runway. Not to justify anything, but if you feel the same way (here),
it might help understand the ire they feel, and help see where it might
(or might not) be justified. Just apply the same reasonsing to both cases.

> [the air mattress] does appear to be optimally
> designed for two people -- when one of us gets
> up, the other sinks dramatically.

I've heard rumors about air mattresses with independent bladders. I
would certainly be interested in that - there could be a separate
bladder for my butt (no noise from the peanut gallery!) and that would
keep everything on the level.

I've tried the camping type air mattresses with the lantern battery
inflators. I think they suck.

> - EAA. Say what you will about it, EAA is a class act, with a HUGE
> resource of volunteers. This gives OSH a focus and an esprit de corps
> that SNF doesn't seem to have.

I thought SnF is also an EAA event.

> And weather? I've had far tougher weather getting to/from SNF than
> I've ever had at OSH. April weather is simply wild, compared to July.

There is that, but to go to SnF I have to give up a New England March.
That's like giving up sacrifice for Lent. To go to OSH, I have to give
up precious pool weather. :)

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Mike Isaksen]

After sitting in the Diamond D-jet mock-up, I too am now convinced that the
VLJs will see brisk sales. I could not believe how "car like" the cockpit
felt. There are probably more buttons and knobs in a Cirrus than in the
D-jet.

Of course this could lead to problems as well, I suspect. There is no
"intimidation factor" like when sitting in the TBM or like. Pilots who can
afford it will sell their pressurized C210 or turbo SR22 and step lively
into the new role of Flight System Manager. I just hope that they will be up
to the task of Piloting, when in the Mod to Severe that was shown by XM
weather to be an opening kicks the AP offline.

Point of reference: The Diamond rep felt confident that owners yearly
insurance budget shouldn't be more than "$24k to $32k per year depending on
flight experience" (his quote). Anyone know the typical for a TBM owner?

"K Baum" > wrote in message ....
> ............... I
> was facinated
> with all the VLJ,s. My buddy and I were offered jobs at both the
> Eclipse tent and the Diamond tent. It seems that they have some pretty
> low time pilots who are ordering these jets, so they have set up a
> pilot mentor program for new owners to fly with experienced pilots for
> awhile. I think the insurance companies are playing a big role in this
> program.
>

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Mike Isaksen" > wrote

> Point of reference: The Diamond rep felt confident that owners yearly
> insurance budget shouldn't be more than "$24k to $32k per year depending
> on flight experience"

24 to 32 THOUSAND???

Are you sure?

Wow.

I know I would be WAY over my head, when just the insurance could be more
than HALF of my gross yearly income.

Wow!
--
Jim in NC

[john smith[_2_]]

In article om>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:

> I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
> in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
the events you are really committed to attending.
When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:02:50 -0400, john smith > wrote:

> In article om>,
> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
> > I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
> > in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?
>
> My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
> Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
> Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
> If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
> the events you are really committed to attending.
> When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
> hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

The warbirds also were mostly missing at Arlington last year. Word was that the
fly-in could no longer fund the other items previously supplied to the owners
(hotel rooms, etc.). This was probably partially due to the lawsuit over the
RV-6 crash.

I'd guess this doesn't affect the attendance figures for aircraft owners/pilots,
but does matter to the general populace. A major factor for both SnF and
Arlington, since they're directly adjacent to major population centers and
depend upon general admission for a large part of their income. Not so
significant for Oshkosh, I'd think.

Ron Wanttaja

[Jay Honeck]

> > I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
> > in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?
>
> My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
> Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
> Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
> If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
> the events you are really committed to attending.
> When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
> hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
airshow crowds:

1. They want warbirds.
2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.

When we organized our local show, in '06, we classified warbird
attendance as our top priority. We were able to get a P-51, several
Stearmans, and several T-28s, and they made the show a success.
(Note: Ours was NOT an "air" show, but the static displays and fly-
overs ensured a large local turnout...)

I know SNF isn't a local show in the same sense -- but the same
principles apply. They need to attract the warbirds, in order to
ensure the crowd. If that means extra costs, they're just going to
have to build that in to their budget.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> 24 to 32 THOUSAND???
>
> Are you sure?
>
> Wow.

Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually for
insurance, from what I've been told.

Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> 24 to 32 THOUSAND???
>>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>> Wow.
>
> Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually for
> insurance, from what I've been told.
>
> Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.

What is the hull value of a Cirrus compared to your 30 some-odd year old
aircraft?


--
Matt Barrow
Performace Homes, LLC.
Colorado Springs, CO

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

The amount you stated seems high, unless you are talking about a low time,
non-instrument rated pilot, with high liability coverage and full hull.

Even considering the cost of a new plane, the hull coverage seems very high.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually for
> insurance, from what I've been told.
>
> Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.

I had no idea that it was so expensive to insure jets.

I have a hard time seeing how they will ever be able to get the cost down
low enough to make air taxi service with the VLJ's affordable.
--
Jim in NC

[Newps]

I have a friend who owned a Citation for many years. The insurance was
$90K per year. He also owned a Caravan on amphibs, that ran $45K per
year for insurance. Another friend has a Caravan on wheels, that only
costs $35K per year.




Morgans wrote:

> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
>
>>Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually for
>>insurance, from what I've been told.
>>
>>Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.
>
>
> I had no idea that it was so expensive to insure jets.
>
> I have a hard time seeing how they will ever be able to get the cost down
> low enough to make air taxi service with the VLJ's affordable.

[[email protected]]

This was my first time, and I really enjoyed meeting Jay and Mary and
soaking up my first 'big fly-in/airshow experience'.
I was only there for Thursday afternoon and all day Friday, and didn't
camp, but it's a start :) I think I at least managed to see every
part of the grounds with the exception of Choppertown (which required
a tram ride), including a trip out to Lake Parker for a couple of
hours.

The Piper Jet mockup was indeed there, along with lots of other VLJs
and LSAs. I agree that some of the LSAs are almost indistiguishable
from larger aircraft at a distance. It was actually a little odd
seeing them flying around with the ultralights in the pattern at
Paradise City, and at least one landing I watched by one of the
sleeker LSAs pushed the limits of the grass strip length.

I liked Cirrus' marketing scheme. They gave away T-shirts advertising
their new Generation 3 aircraft to anyone who would agree to wear them
out of the booth. I was surprised I didn't see more people wearing
them, but I think the deal was an 'open secret' as I only found out
about it by overhearing the lady at the booth talking to another
customer.

--
Allen Johnson
Raleigh, NC

[RST Engineering]

No problem. I'll give T-shirts away at my forum this year to any female
willing to take her shirt off and put mine on during the forum ... on stage.

Jim



>
> I liked Cirrus' marketing scheme. They gave away T-shirts advertising
> their new Generation 3 aircraft to anyone who would agree to wear them
> out of the booth.

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:32:07 -0600, Newps > wrote:

>I have a friend who owned a Citation for many years. The insurance was
>$90K per year. He also owned a Caravan on amphibs, that ran $45K per
>year for insurance. Another friend has a Caravan on wheels, that only
>costs $35K per year.

I can understand the jet (high due to being a jet and the number of
seats) and the Caravan on floats, but on wheels that is almost twice
what they quoted me for a TBM 700 with the Caravan costing less and
being considerably slower.

>
>
>
>
>Morgans wrote:
>
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
>>
>>
>>>Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually for
>>>insurance, from what I've been told.
>>>
>>>Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.
>>
>>
>> I had no idea that it was so expensive to insure jets.
>>
>> I have a hard time seeing how they will ever be able to get the cost down
>> low enough to make air taxi service with the VLJ's affordable.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote

> I can understand the jet (high due to being a jet and the number of
> seats) and the Caravan on floats, but on wheels that is almost twice
> what they quoted me for a TBM 700 with the Caravan costing less and
> being considerably slower.

Can your justify a jet turbine costing more than a turbo prop? Are not jet
turbine aircraft much more safe, mile per mile?
--
Jim in NC

[Newps]

Roger (K8RI) wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:32:07 -0600, Newps > wrote:
>
>
>>I have a friend who owned a Citation for many years. The insurance was
>>$90K per year. He also owned a Caravan on amphibs, that ran $45K per
>>year for insurance. Another friend has a Caravan on wheels, that only
>>costs $35K per year.
>
>
> I can understand the jet (high due to being a jet and the number of
> seats) and the Caravan on floats, but on wheels that is almost twice
> what they quoted me for a TBM 700 with the Caravan costing less and
> being considerably slower.

The Caravan on wheels price may reflect that it is the company plane.
The company makes small diameter tubing for the auto industry in
Michigan and was a cost effective way of owning a Caravan. I should ask
him what he pays for the Turbine 210, that's a personal bird I believe.

[muff528]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
> this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
> dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
> airshow crowds:
>
> 1. They want warbirds.
> 2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.
>

Yes, as a spectator I tend to agree with that.
Also, in past years SNF was scheduled, by design
or by chance, to coincide with the MacDill Airfest.
SNF was treated to some high profile fly-bys by
a/c associated with the Airfest. I really was surprised
to see visits from some of these "exotics" at SNF this
year since the two events were seperated by a couple
of weeks. I think this really says something about how
the military values the SNF. Additionally, I used to
see some of the same vintage warbirds at both events.

I also understand that it is easy for me to complain
and whine about the low attendance numbers for
vintage warbirds, many of which are privately owned
and operated, when I'm not the one paying for
their fuel and maintenance.

TP

[Matt Whiting]

RST Engineering wrote:
> No problem. I'll give T-shirts away at my forum this year to any female
> willing to take her shirt off and put mine on during the forum ... on stage.

Even if she has two shirts on? :-)

[Big John]

TP

When I flew the Merlin (P-51) we burned in the low 60GPH for normal
cruise. At a low crusie we could get down into the high 50's GPH. Take
a flight of 1000 miles to get there and 4-5 hours each way and any
flying at air show you can get an idea of just fuel costs to attend.

It's a sorry state but looks like there will be less and less war
birds at shows :o( They are being priced out of the picture.

Big John
************************************************** ***********8

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:11:38 GMT, "muff528" >
wrote:

>
>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>> I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
>> this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
>> dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
>> airshow crowds:
>>
>> 1. They want warbirds.
>> 2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.
>>
>
>Yes, as a spectator I tend to agree with that.
>Also, in past years SNF was scheduled, by design
>or by chance, to coincide with the MacDill Airfest.
>SNF was treated to some high profile fly-bys by
>a/c associated with the Airfest. I really was surprised
>to see visits from some of these "exotics" at SNF this
>year since the two events were seperated by a couple
>of weeks. I think this really says something about how
>the military values the SNF. Additionally, I used to
>see some of the same vintage warbirds at both events.
>
>I also understand that it is easy for me to complain
>and whine about the low attendance numbers for
>vintage warbirds, many of which are privately owned
>and operated, when I'm not the one paying for
>their fuel and maintenance.
>
>TP
>

[Kyle Boatright]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Mary and I just returned from 6 glorious days at Sun N Fun in
> Lakeland, FL.

Me too, but only 4 days. In addition to the airshows and static displays, I
took in a couple of workshops where I learned a little about metal shaping
and welding. Also, I visited the Aircraft Spruce display and had 'em ship
me about $200 in aviation odds and ends - filters, plugs, wrenches, etc.

I have a buddy who drives to the show and provides ground transportation.
It is great to have "wheels", because there are plenty of restaurants within
a 10 minute drive of the grounds, and the wait times are nonexistent. We
left the show at lunchtime a couple of days and were back in an hour or
so... There are several grocery close by as well. The local Publix has a
Kitfox on display as you walk into the store. And they have steamed shrimp.
Campers at adjacent campsites were very jealous... Shrimp and beer...mmmm

I had a couple of brushes with the media at the show. In one case, I'd just
had my buddy take my picture with the "Zoom Free Zone" sign at the CGS booth
in the ultralight area. Walking back through the antique area, I gave my
buddy the rundown on the business practices and ethics of Jim Campbell, and
how (and why) he is banned from SnF. As I finished the story, a guy who'd
been sort of walking along with us introduced himself as a writer/reporter
from Avweb. He said he didn't dare to comment on Jim Campbell or ANN, but
was just happy that I wasn't giving Avweb the same "treatment". I commented
to him that I appreciate Avweb, but that I'd love to see Avweb add some of
the irreverence (his word was snarkyness) back to its writing. He indicated
that they had to be careful, but that they do plan to add back some of that
content.

Later, we were in the Flying Magazine booth and someone asked if I was a
subscriber (not anymore - dropped the subscription recently) and would I
care to resubscribe. I told him "No thanks, the magazine's focus has moved
way, way upscale. Today's content is all jets and $100,000 instrument
panels" Then I pointed to the array of recent issues spread out on the table
for review - every one of 'em had a corporate jet on the cover... Of
course, I was probably talking to a hired gun for the airshow, but it would
be really nice if the folks who run Flying would throw the <$100,000 (and
sub - $50,000) airplane crowd a few bones in each issue...

Completing a nice 4 day vacation, there was a 10 or 15 knot tailwind for my
trip home in nice blue skies (other than the smoke in South Georgia).

KB

[Judah]

Jay Honeck > wrote in news:1177261684.540467.127180
@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

Nice write-up.

NEXPO was in Orlando this past week. I had hoped to sneak away to Lakeland,
but ended up being WAY too busy to pull it off.

[muff528]

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> TP
>
> When I flew the Merlin (P-51) we burned in the low 60GPH for normal
> cruise. At a low crusie we could get down into the high 50's GPH. Take
> a flight of 1000 miles to get there and 4-5 hours each way and any
> flying at air show you can get an idea of just fuel costs to attend.
>
> It's a sorry state but looks like there will be less and less war
> birds at shows :o( They are being priced out of the picture.
>
> Big John

Yes, that adds up fast.........and I can just imagine 4 big radials sucking
gas and oil on that 1000 mile trip! Jay has a point that the event
organizers
should look at the long term benefits of maybe subsidizing some of the
warbirds' appearances. Only problem is you then have the organizers
playing favorites with their choices of who gets what. Decisions would
likely be based on friendships, nepotism, and proximity to the show and some
who already have major investments in their airplanes would still have to
pay their own way or stay home.
Tony P.

[Jay Honeck]

> It is great to have "wheels", because there are plenty of restaurants within
> a 10 minute drive of the grounds, and the wait times are nonexistent.

Yeah, we were lucky to have (occasional) wheels, too, thanks to our
buds at Flying Colors Glass. We ate off-site several times, and hit
the local Winn-Dixie grocery store once. But it sure would have been
nice if that danged camp store had been open more, mostly for ice and
beverages.

> Later, we were in the Flying Magazine booth and someone asked if I was a
> subscriber (not anymore - dropped the subscription recently) and would I
> care to resubscribe. I told him "No thanks, the magazine's focus has moved
> way, way upscale. Today's content is all jets and $100,000 instrument
> panels"

They tried to get me to extend, to which I replied that I was already
receiving TWO subscriptions, thanks to the LAST time I "extended" my
subscription at their tent at OSH. That's right, instead of extending
your current subscription, they will start another one, just to pad
their numbers.

And woe to anyone who actually tries to call "Flying" mag's
circulation department to get the situation corrected! It's been
totally farmed out to the same bozos that are selling subs at SNF and
OSH, and they rarely answer.

> Completing a nice 4 day vacation, there was a 10 or 15 knot tailwind for my
> trip home in nice blue skies (other than the smoke in South Georgia).

We saw a bit of those fires on our way through. Up at 8500 feet it
didn't matter, but it sure looked hazy down lower...

Great show! I wish I never had to leave...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> When I flew the Merlin (P-51) we burned in the low 60GPH for normal
> cruise. At a low crusie we could get down into the high 50's GPH. Take
> a flight of 1000 miles to get there and 4-5 hours each way and any
> flying at air show you can get an idea of just fuel costs to attend.

Let's see, that's about $240 per hour for fuel. The P-51 alone now
costs over $1 million, and is almost completely useless outside of
being extremely, almost painfully cool to own.

For some reason, I hope that a guy who can afford to own an utterly
useless $1 million dollar plane can probably afford to **** away $240
per hour to fly it.

Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my dotage, but I think there must be
more to the warbird no-show at SNF than economics. Someone forgot to
butter someone's bread, and they simply stayed home, despite perfect
weather.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("Jack Allison" wrote)
> Are you sure it wasn't the other way around? Perhaps the "Black" half of
> the duo from the Twin Cities conveniently arranged to send "Mont" your way
> and paid the kids a handsome price to watch him for a week :-)


That's closer to the truth than you realize. <g>


Montblack

[Travis Marlatte]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my dotage, but I think there must be
> more to the warbird no-show at SNF than economics. Someone forgot to
> butter someone's bread, and they simply stayed home, despite perfect
> weather.

I agree with the missing butter theory. On the Saturday right before SnF,
Kermit Week's hosted a Mustang's and Mustang's show and Fantasy of Flight. I
didn't go but I flew over the field. There were thousands of people there.
The parking lot looked full. The ramp area was packed with both P-51s and
Fords.

So, economics of travel was certainly not a part of them not showing up.
They could have hung around and spent some time at SnF, if they had wanted
to. Not only did they not do a fly by but they weren't even on the flight
line. All I saw was the pair of acro Mustang's.

Disclaimer: If they were there and I missed them, then never mind!
--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

[K Baum]

> > 24 to 32 THOUSAND???
>
> > Are you sure?
>
> > Wow.
>
> Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually for
> insurance, from what I've been told.
>
> Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.
> --
> Jay Honeck

Jay, this reminds me of a time in GA when insurance for certain
operations/types simply wasnt available at ANY price. I think what the
VLJ manufacturers are doing is a great proactive way to sell even more
jets. For anyone in RAP land who might be looking to try this mentor
pilot program, the requirements were pretty low. I dont recall what
the Diamond people wanted, but the Eclipse people only wanted to see
1000 multi and 500 turbine. Seems like an easy way to make some extra
spendoolies as a side job. I have mentored a few polits over the years
and it was fun (Got to fly to some interesting places too).

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

Morgans wrote:

> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
>
>>Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually for
>>insurance, from what I've been told.
>>
>>Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.
>
>
> I had no idea that it was so expensive to insure jets.
>
> I have a hard time seeing how they will ever be able to get the cost down
> low enough to make air taxi service with the VLJ's affordable.

Eclipse is quoting around $32K for full coverage on it's 500 for a "fully
qualified pilot" (ie, something around 2000+/500 hour pilot), or $64K for a
newbie.

http://www.eclipseaviation.com/ownership/insurance/

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

Which immediately makes me wonder why some of the VLJ manufacturers couldn't
become the insurance under writers for their aircraft?

They would have the cheapest replacement parts to repair a customers botched
airplane. They could demand strict training or mentor programs. They could
sell the highest risk to other underwriters and keep the safest risk. It
would provide an additional income stream.

Downside could be a large lawsuit or several out of court settlements
costing the company valuable liquid assets. I guess settlements could be
time installments based on annuities, similar to lotteries.. but I'm getting
ahead of myself.

Any other thoughts about manufacturers underwriting the insurance?

Jim

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
> Morgans wrote:
>
> > "Jay Honeck" > wrote
> >
> >
> >>Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually for
> >>insurance, from what I've been told.
> >>
> >>Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.
> >
> >
> > I had no idea that it was so expensive to insure jets.
> >
> > I have a hard time seeing how they will ever be able to get the cost
down
> > low enough to make air taxi service with the VLJ's affordable.
>
> Eclipse is quoting around $32K for full coverage on it's 500 for a "fully
> qualified pilot" (ie, something around 2000+/500 hour pilot), or $64K for
a
> newbie.
>
> http://www.eclipseaviation.com/ownership/insurance/
>
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Matt Barrow wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
>
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
>>
>>
>>> Well, Jim, the average Cirrus pilot is paying $10 - $15K annually
>>> for insurance, from what I've been told.
>>>
>>> Makes my $1200/year seem positively reasonable.
>>
>>
>> I had no idea that it was so expensive to insure jets.
>>
>> I have a hard time seeing how they will ever be able to get the cost
>> down low enough to make air taxi service with the VLJ's affordable.
>
> Eclipse is quoting around $32K for full coverage on it's 500 for a
> "fully qualified pilot" (ie, something around 2000+/500 hour pilot),
> or $64K for a newbie.
>
> http://www.eclipseaviation.com/ownership/insurance/

If I'm doing the math right that's about 2% of hull value for the "fully
qualified pilot" and 4% for a newbie. Sounds about right. I was checking
insurance costs for the 601XL I'm building and was quoted $445.00/year on a
$40K hull cost.

[Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)]

I wasn't there this year, but one other other item for the good list was
that Marion Blakey didn't show up. I finally got my Ku band satellite
receiver set up to receive the transmissions from the FAA Production
Studios there, and I caught the "Meet the FAA" session. They said she
had an international travel schedule conflict. (Uh. Ya, right.)

What are the odds of her showing up at OSH?

The TV people there do a pretty nice job. I'm going to try to remember
to record their seminars throughout the year.

I see that the FAA has brought out more ammunition in the power grab
they want in a statement countering the AOPA points.

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=8747

[Rob]

On Apr 23, 9:10 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> For some reason, I hope that a guy who can afford to own an utterly
> useless $1 million dollar plane can probably afford to **** away $240
> per hour to fly it.

I disagree. Isn't that somewhat analagous to saying that a person who
could afford an $80k airplane can afford to **** away another $20 per
hour in additional taxes and fees? I'll bet that most of the folks
with the resources to invest in something like a P-51 got and kept
those resources by not ****ing away any money at all.

-R

[Jay Honeck]

> I agree with the missing butter theory. On the Saturday right before SnF,
> Kermit Week's hosted a Mustang's and Mustang's show and Fantasy of Flight. I
> didn't go but I flew over the field. There were thousands of people there.
> The parking lot looked full. The ramp area was packed with both P-51s and
> Fords.

Interesting bringing up Kermit Weeks. Mary and I tried to find our
way to his nearby "Fantasy of Flight" museum during the week, and were
astounded to find that there was NO shuttle bus from the SNF grounds
to his museum. NONE.

Not for any price -- which seemed really, really weird. I figured
there must be bad blood between them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith[_2_]]

In article <ePcXh.5106$Fc1.3054@trnddc05>,
"muff528" > wrote:

> Also, in past years SNF was scheduled, by design
> or by chance, to coincide with the MacDill Airfest.

As I recall, once upon a time, there was a warbird gathering in TICO(?)
the week before the first weekend of SNF. Many of the warbirds gathered
there the first week, their pilots took the express tube home for the
week, then returned the next weekend, retrieved their aircraft, went Sun
N Fun for the week, then flew home.

[john smith[_2_]]

In article om>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:

> Interesting bringing up Kermit Weeks. Mary and I tried to find our
> way to his nearby "Fantasy of Flight" museum during the week, and were
> astounded to find that there was NO shuttle bus from the SNF grounds
> to his museum. NONE.

That's quite a ways away.
Fantasy of Flight is southwest of Disney World.
That's on the west side of Orlando.
That's about 60 miles away.
Not really a shuttle ride away.

[Margy Natalie]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> RST Engineering wrote:
>
>> No problem. I'll give T-shirts away at my forum this year to any
>> female willing to take her shirt off and put mine on during the forum
>> ... on stage.
>
>
> Even if she has two shirts on? :-)
Damned you Matt, you blew my plan!!!

Margy

[Matt Whiting]

Margy Natalie wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>> RST Engineering wrote:
>>
>>> No problem. I'll give T-shirts away at my forum this year to any
>>> female willing to take her shirt off and put mine on during the forum
>>> ... on stage.
>>
>>
>> Even if she has two shirts on? :-)
> Damned you Matt, you blew my plan!!!
>
> Margy

Well, it is still a good plan and you have Jim's word on it! :-)

Matt

[Margy Natalie]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Margy Natalie wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> RST Engineering wrote:
>>>
>>>> No problem. I'll give T-shirts away at my forum this year to any
>>>> female willing to take her shirt off and put mine on during the
>>>> forum ... on stage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even if she has two shirts on? :-)
>>
>> Damned you Matt, you blew my plan!!!
>>
>> Margy
>
>
> Well, it is still a good plan and you have Jim's word on it! :-)
>
> Matt
Ok, when's the forum?

Margy (I need a new shirt!)

[Kyle Boatright]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article om>,
> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
>> Interesting bringing up Kermit Weeks. Mary and I tried to find our
>> way to his nearby "Fantasy of Flight" museum during the week, and were
>> astounded to find that there was NO shuttle bus from the SNF grounds
>> to his museum. NONE.
>
> That's quite a ways away.
> Fantasy of Flight is southwest of Disney World.
> That's on the west side of Orlando.
> That's about 60 miles away.
> Not really a shuttle ride away.

It is about 22 miles from Lakeland Linder to Fantasy of Flight by road (per
mapquest). I didn't realize how close it was until Sunday. I flew over to
Winter Haven from SnF on Sunday morning. Winter Haven is nautical NE of
Lakeland Linder. There I picked up a buddy and gave him a good ride in the
RV. About 10 miles NNW of Winter Haven, I saw a Lockheed Constellation out
in the middle of a grass field, which caused me to do a double take... I'd
accidentally found Fantasy of Flight from the air...

KB

[Kyle Boatright]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article om>,
>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting bringing up Kermit Weeks. Mary and I tried to find our
>>> way to his nearby "Fantasy of Flight" museum during the week, and were
>>> astounded to find that there was NO shuttle bus from the SNF grounds
>>> to his museum. NONE.
>>
>> That's quite a ways away.
>> Fantasy of Flight is southwest of Disney World.
>> That's on the west side of Orlando.
>> That's about 60 miles away.
>> Not really a shuttle ride away.
>
> It is about 22 miles from Lakeland Linder to Fantasy of Flight by road
> (per mapquest). I didn't realize how close it was until Sunday. I flew
> over to Winter Haven from SnF on Sunday morning. Winter Haven is

18 nautical miles NE of


> Lakeland Linder. There I picked up a buddy and gave him a good ride in the
> RV. About 10 miles NNW of Winter Haven, I saw a Lockheed Constellation
> out in the middle of a grass field, which caused me to do a double take...
> I'd accidentally found Fantasy of Flight from the air...
>
> KB


KB

[Darrel Toepfer]

"Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)" > wrote:

> I wasn't there this year, but one other other item for the good list was
> that Marion Blakey didn't show up. I finally got my Ku band satellite
> receiver set up to receive the transmissions from the FAA Production
> Studios there, and I caught the "Meet the FAA" session. They said she
> had an international travel schedule conflict. (Uh. Ya, right.)

Care to share the details on your configuration (satellite, channel,
schedule, etc.)? I'd seen a listing about this previously and inquired at a
Wings event but they didn't have any details. I'd like to digitize them for
future hosting on a website...

[Matt Whiting]

Margy Natalie wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>> Margy Natalie wrote:
>>
>>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>>
>>>> RST Engineering wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No problem. I'll give T-shirts away at my forum this year to any
>>>>> female willing to take her shirt off and put mine on during the
>>>>> forum ... on stage.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even if she has two shirts on? :-)
>>>
>>> Damned you Matt, you blew my plan!!!
>>>
>>> Margy
>>
>>
>> Well, it is still a good plan and you have Jim's word on it! :-)
>>
>> Matt
> Ok, when's the forum?
>
> Margy (I need a new shirt!)

Why? You already have at least two! :-)

Matt

[Jay Honeck]

> I agree with the missing butter theory. On the Saturday right before SnF,
> Kermit Week's hosted a Mustang's and Mustang's show and Fantasy of Flight.
> didn't go but I flew over the field. There were thousands of people there.
> The parking lot looked full. The ramp area was packed with both P-51s and
> Fords.

Interesting that you bring up Kermit Weeks and the "Fantasy of Flight"
museum. Mary and I tried to find a shuttle from the SNF grounds to
the "F-of-F" museum -- and there simply wasn't one! We asked at the
"transportation center" (where all the buses pick-up) and the
volunteers there just shrugged their shoulders...

This, to me, signals loud and clear that there is some VERY bad blood
between the two organizations. Here they've got thousands of pilots
and planes at SNF, just a few miles from F-of-F, and NO ONE thought to
provide a shuttle bus over to the museum? Not!

Somebody peed in somebody's Wheaties...

Judging by the P-51 turnout at F-of-F, and what you related, above,
obviously Kermit Weeks is more "plugged into" the warbird community
than the SNF organizers.

I find it so sad -- and frustrating -- that aviation is so fractured
like this. Despite being a TINY minority, it always seems that we
aviators always self-segregate themselves into even tinier sub-groups.
Often those sub-groups can't seem to get along with each other.

It's sad, and it's why we continually lose the public relations
battles with the anti-aviation crowd.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)]

Darrel,

The FAA transmissions are on satellite AMC-3, 87 deg West, Transponder
18, Vertical polarity, 12055 Mhz, s/r 3.020 MSPSm FEC 3/4, Video PID 33,
Audio PID 36, PCR PID 33

Here's where I got that information http://www.floridaaviationnetwork.com/

They have information that says they are on Dish Network channel 9411.
They also have a web stream in Windows Media format.

The program schedule is here:
http://www.faaproductionstudios.com/FAA%20Prod%20Studio%20Print%20Material/Satellite%20Frequency%20Schedule%202006-07.pdf

You'll need a receiver for MPEG/DVB transmissions. My situation was
that I had a older C/Ku band receiver for watching TV. I put a MPEG/DVB
receiver card in a nearby PC and split the signal from the satellite
blocking the DC power. I still use the original system for positioning
the dish and powering the amplifier on the dish. Instead of the card,
there are separate receiver units like this:
http://www.pansatusa.com/product/receiver-2500AM.htm

Paul

Darrel Toepfer wrote:
>
> Care to share the details on your configuration (satellite, channel,
> schedule, etc.)? I'd seen a listing about this previously and inquired at a
> Wings event but they didn't have any details. I'd like to digitize them for
> future hosting on a website...

[Darrel Toepfer]

"Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)" > wrote:

> Darrel,
>
> The FAA transmissions are on satellite AMC-3, 87 deg West, Transponder
> 18, Vertical polarity, 12055 Mhz, s/r 3.020 MSPSm FEC 3/4, Video PID
> 33, Audio PID 36, PCR PID 33

Many thanks, Paul...

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article . com>, Jay Honeck
says...
>
>Mary and I just returned from 6 glorious days at Sun N Fun in
>Lakeland, FL, where we enjoyed the most amazingly perfect weather I
>have ever seen at such an event. The nights were cool (almost cold
>the first few nights) -- perfect for sleeping -- and the days were
>sunny and warm. No humidity, no bugs, no alligators -- just lots and
>lots of aircraft!

It was a nice show altho' little windy at times. I stayed in the U/L -Light
Sport plane area most of the time. Got to visit with Vicki Cruse for an hr or so
as well as with Walt Troyer,Frank Hitlaw and Tim Kirns.
My $100.00 reward for a zoom sighting went unclaimed and I didn't even see any
ANN stringers in my area .Usually I know a couple and they stop and say Hi.

Started a new distributer in Argentina and one in Peru. So all and all it was a
good show for me (CGS). The B-2 was awesome! the Muzzle loader tasty,only one
confirmed kill and 4 or 5 probables,our 25th anniversary party for the CGS Hawk
went great,the U/L party on sat. was a hoot with 2 members of the female
persuasion flashing the band for beads. Had that happen years ago when I played
in a rock band but never at SnF:-)I probably shouldn't have said anything now
next year all you guys will show up with cameras :-)

I want to publicly thank Lou Ann ,Harley,Laura and the rest of the Florida gang
that made my 25th anniversary of the CGS Hawk such a success.The decorations
were great and the food was outstanding thanks loads to each and every one of
you.

Chuck S

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
john smith > wrote:

> In article om>,
> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
> > Interesting bringing up Kermit Weeks. Mary and I tried to find our
> > way to his nearby "Fantasy of Flight" museum during the week, and were
> > astounded to find that there was NO shuttle bus from the SNF grounds
> > to his museum. NONE.
>
> That's quite a ways away.
> Fantasy of Flight is southwest of Disney World.
> That's on the west side of Orlando.
> That's about 60 miles away.
> Not really a shuttle ride away.

It is just about 8 miles NE of SnF, on I-4. I overfly it enroute to to
the initial point for the "powerplant arrival."

[john smith[_2_]]

In article >,
Orval Fairbairn > wrote:

> It is just about 8 miles NE of SnF, on I-4. I overfly it enroute to to
> the initial point for the "powerplant arrival."

Thanks. I always thought it was closer to Orlando.

[Steve Foley]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...

> Started a new distributer in Argentina and one in Peru.

Hey Chuck,

If you need someone to make a sales call in Peru, my wife would love to take
care of it for you (and visit her family while she's there)

If it's in Lima, you don't need to pay for her hotel.

[Kyle Boatright]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> I agree with the missing butter theory. On the Saturday right before SnF,
>> Kermit Week's hosted a Mustang's and Mustang's show and Fantasy of
>> Flight.
>> didn't go but I flew over the field. There were thousands of people
>> there.
>> The parking lot looked full. The ramp area was packed with both P-51s and
>> Fords.
>
> Interesting that you bring up Kermit Weeks and the "Fantasy of Flight"
> museum. Mary and I tried to find a shuttle from the SNF grounds to
> the "F-of-F" museum -- and there simply wasn't one! We asked at the
> "transportation center" (where all the buses pick-up) and the
> volunteers there just shrugged their shoulders...
>
> This, to me, signals loud and clear that there is some VERY bad blood
> between the two organizations. Here they've got thousands of pilots
> and planes at SNF, just a few miles from F-of-F, and NO ONE thought to
> provide a shuttle bus over to the museum? Not!
>
> Somebody peed in somebody's Wheaties...

Fantasy of Flight used to have a large display at SnF. I don't remember if
they offered a shuttle service or not. I suspect many of the hardcore
folks who are there by airplane or RV don't really have the ability to
easily go 20 miles up the road to visit FoF...

Also, looking at FoF, I have a sneaking suspicion that the intent of the
business isn't necessarily to be a big money maker. It *may* simply be a
good way for Kermit to turn a frighteningly expensive hobby into something
he can write off as an expense on taxes.

Just speculating....

KB

>
> Judging by the P-51 turnout at F-of-F, and what you related, above,
> obviously Kermit Weeks is more "plugged into" the warbird community
> than the SNF organizers.
>
> I find it so sad -- and frustrating -- that aviation is so fractured
> like this. Despite being a TINY minority, it always seems that we
> aviators always self-segregate themselves into even tinier sub-groups.
> Often those sub-groups can't seem to get along with each other.
>
> It's sad, and it's why we continually lose the public relations
> battles with the anti-aviation crowd.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Steve
Foley says...
>
>"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Started a new distributer in Argentina and one in Peru.
>
>Hey Chuck,
>
>If you need someone to make a sales call in Peru, my wife would love to take
>care of it for you (and visit her family while she's there)
>
>If it's in Lima, you don't need to pay for her hotel.

Great!! We sold 15 planes to the Peruvian Air Force back in 1992 or there abouts
Nd the Air Forcr sold a couple to the Peruvian Aero Club. I guess they're
looking for some newer planes. Thanks for the offer :-)

See ya

Chuck S

[Jay Honeck]

> > For some reason, I hope that a guy who can afford to own an utterly
> > useless $1 million dollar plane can probably afford to **** away $240
> > per hour to fly it.
>
> I disagree. Isn't that somewhat analagous to saying that a person who
> could afford an $80k airplane can afford to **** away another $20 per
> hour in additional taxes and fees? I'll bet that most of the folks
> with the resources to invest in something like a P-51 got and kept
> those resources by not ****ing away any money at all.

True enough. But they can afford to do so, if they wish to.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("john smith" wrote)
>> Dunno. But he boogied on out of here within an hour after we landed
>> yesterday, if that gives you any clue!

> There is a story to be told sometime, I'm sure.
> RAP Party, AirVenture 2007, maybe?


With their Saturday evening return from S&F, I had an opportunity to drive
back home (unexpectedly) early and tackle some waiting projects - before
heading out of town, once again, the following Tuesday.

I saw an opening and I took it. <g>


Montblack
If this had been February or March they would have had to kick me out!

[Jay Honeck]

> If this had been February or March they would have had to kick me out!

Hey -- you and Margene are welcome any time. Next time, just c'mon
down for fun -- maybe Tulip Festival?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith[_2_]]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> Hey -- you and Margene are welcome any time. Next time, just c'mon
> down for fun -- maybe Tulip Festival?

When might that be?

[Montblack]

("john smith" wrote)
>> Hey -- you and Margene are welcome any time. Next time, just c'mon down
>> for fun -- maybe Tulip Festival?

> When might that be?


http://www.pellatuliptime.com/
May 3-4, 2007


Montblack

[Dan[_2_]]

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> In article >, Steve
> Foley says...
>> "ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Started a new distributer in Argentina and one in Peru.
>> Hey Chuck,
>>
>> If you need someone to make a sales call in Peru, my wife would love to take
>> care of it for you (and visit her family while she's there)
>>
>> If it's in Lima, you don't need to pay for her hotel.
>
> Great!! We sold 15 planes to the Peruvian Air Force back in 1992 or there abouts
> Nd the Air Forcr sold a couple to the Peruvian Aero Club. I guess they're
> looking for some newer planes. Thanks for the offer :-)
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck S
>
But no Zoom sightings.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[[email protected]]

On Apr 29, 10:50 am, Dan > wrote:
> ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> > In article >, Steve
> > Foley says...
> >> "ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >>> Started a new distributer in Argentina and one in Peru.
> >> Hey Chuck,
>
> >> If you need someone to make a sales call in Peru, my wife would love to take
> >> care of it for you (and visit her family while she's there)
>
> >> If it's in Lima, you don't need to pay for her hotel.
>
> > Great!! We sold 15 planes to the Peruvian Air Force back in 1992 or there abouts
> > Nd the Air Forcr sold a couple to the Peruvian Aero Club. I guess they're
> > looking for some newer planes. Thanks for the offer :-)
>
> > See ya
>
> > Chuck S
>
> But no Zoom sightings.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I didn't see his fat assed Puerto Rican butt boy either. I made a
point to look for him I really wanted to give him every chance to back
up his threats he has made to me in this news group. For that matter I
also didn't see any of the other ann kool aid drinkers either. Oh well
there will always be Oshkosh...

Frank M.Hitlaw at my secret world HQ.

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article om>,
says...
> I didn't see his fat assed Puerto Rican butt boy either. I made a
>point to look for him I really wanted to give him every chance to back
>up his threats he has made to me in this news group. For that matter I
>also didn't see any of the other ann kool aid drinkers either. Oh well
>there will always be Oshkosh...
>
> Frank M.Hitlaw at my secret world HQ.

I was at Frank's secret world HQ's and it's so secret it took Frank an hour to
find it. :-)

Chuck (el Pollo Loco") S

[[email protected]]

On Apr 30, 10:25 pm, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:
> In article om>,
> says...
>
> > I didn't see his fat assed Puerto Rican butt boy either. I made a
> >point to look for him I really wanted to give him every chance to back
> >up his threats he has made to me in this news group. For that matter I
> >also didn't see any of the other ann kool aid drinkers either. Oh well
> >there will always be Oshkosh...
>
> > Frank M.Hitlaw at my secret world HQ.
>
> I was at Frank's secret world HQ's and it's so secret it took Frank an hour to
> find it. :-)
>
> Chuck (el Pollo Loco") S

Chuck, it was alot easier to find after a shot of muzzleloader...

Frank M.Hitlaw, recovering from SnF at my secret world HQ