Antenna Installation on Longez

[Glennbob]

I want to install a foil antenna for the VOR receiver. I'd like to
install the antenna ( foreswept " V " ) either on the underside of
the Canard wing or the main wing. My question is, after I solder
the foil to the two wires, how do I get the torroids and coax back to
the fuselage to run to the radios. I don't want to disrupt the shape
of the wing by running wires on the undersurface.

Glennbob

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Glennbob" < wrote

>I want to install a foil antenna for the VOR receiver. I'd like to
> install the antenna ( foreswept " V " ) either on the underside of
> the Canard wing or the main wing. My question is, after I solder
> the foil to the two wires, how do I get the torroids and coax back to
> the fuselage to run to the radios. I don't want to disrupt the shape
> of the wing by running wires on the undersurface.

Have you already glassed the exterior of the foam wing and canard cores?
--
Jim in NC

[Glennbob]

On Apr 23, 1:10 am, "Morgans" > wrote:
> "Glennbob" < wrote
>
> >I want to install a foil antenna for the VOR receiver. I'd like to
> > install the antenna ( foreswept " V " ) either on the underside of
> > the Canard wing or the main wing. My question is, after I solder
> > the foil to the two wires, how do I get the torroids and coax back to
> > the fuselage to run to the radios. I don't want to disrupt the shape
> > of the wing by running wires on the undersurface.
>
> Have you already glassed the exterior of the foam wing and canard cores?
> --
> Jim in NC

Yes, the wings are fully glassed. I bought the bird in " flying "
condition, . .but with no paint yet. It had a small antenna on the
underside of the canard, but it's too small. Each leg is only about
18 inches long. Glennbob

[Peter Dohm]

"Glennbob" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Apr 23, 1:10 am, "Morgans" > wrote:
> > "Glennbob" < wrote
> >
> > >I want to install a foil antenna for the VOR receiver. I'd like to
> > > install the antenna ( foreswept " V " ) either on the underside of
> > > the Canard wing or the main wing. My question is, after I solder
> > > the foil to the two wires, how do I get the torroids and coax back to
> > > the fuselage to run to the radios. I don't want to disrupt the shape
> > > of the wing by running wires on the undersurface.
> >
> > Have you already glassed the exterior of the foam wing and canard cores?
> > --
> > Jim in NC
>
> Yes, the wings are fully glassed. I bought the bird in " flying "
> condition, . .but with no paint yet. It had a small antenna on the
> underside of the canard, but it's too small. Each leg is only about
> 18 inches long. Glennbob
>
I don't know either, but here are a couple of places to look:
http://www.ez.org/
http://www.canardaviation.com/
http://www.canardzone.com/forum/

I have no experience with any of them, and just found them with the Google
search argument: canard forum

Actually, your question is related to composits generally, rather than
canards, but my local EAA chapter experience suggests that there will be a
lot of activity on the Cozy and EZ groups. When you do find the solution,
please post it, as I am only one of many eager to learn.

Peter

[Glennbob]

On Apr 25, 10:24 pm, Richard Riley > wrote:
> On 22 Apr 2007 21:58:39 -0700, Glennbob > wrote:
>
> >I want to install a foil antenna for the VOR receiver. I'd like to
> >install the antenna ( foreswept " V " ) either on the underside of
> >the Canard wing or the main wing. My question is, after I solder
> >the foil to the two wires, how do I get the torroids and coax back to
> >the fuselage to run to the radios. I don't want to disrupt the shape
> >of the wing by running wires on the undersurface.
>
> The junction of the coax and the two foil legs goes in the center of
> the canard, where the underside of the canard is in the fuselage. The
> foil is on bottom surface of the canard, in the wind, but it's so thin
> it doesn't disrupt the shape of the wing.

THAT'S JUST THE PROBLEM. . . .THE JUNCTION BEING IN THE CENTER
OF THE WING. I DON'T WANT IT IN THE CENTER OF THE WING. TOO MUCH
METAL THERE FOR DISRUPTION. SO . . WITH THE CENTER OUTBOARD OF THE
FUSELAGE, . . HOW DO I GET THE COAX BACK TO THE FUSELAGE WITHOUT
DISRUPTING THE WING SHAPE ?

ANSWER : . . . I DON'T ! ! THOUGH I KNOW IT'S NOT THE BEST
WAY, . . IT SEEMS THIS IS WHAT THE EZ COMMUNITY HAS BEEN DOING FOR A
WHILE AND THEY ALL SEEM SATISFIED WITH IT, . .BUT AFTER READING AN
ARTICLE BY JIM WEIR, . .AND SEEING A SCHEMATIC THAT HE HAD SHOWING
SEVERAL ANTENNAS ON EACH EXTREME WING AREA, I WANTED TO DO IT THAT
WAY FOR BEST RESULTS. BUT IT SEEMS THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE WORTH THE
EXTRA EFFORT. SO . . . I PLAN TO USE THE VOR ANTENNA THAT IS ALREADY
GLASSED INTO MY CANARD AND I PLAN TO INSTALL A SECOND ONE FOR THE
GLIDE SLOPE , . .SINCE IT IS MUCH SHORTER ( ABOUT 7.5 " ). I PLAN TO
INSTAL IT RIGHT NEXT TO THE VOR ANTENNA SINCE I DON'T WANT TO USE A
SPLITTER. - - AGAIN, . .READING THE ARTICLE FROM JIM
WEIR, . .SHOWS THAT THERE IS AN AUTOMATIC 30% LOSS OF SIGNAL WHEN
USING A SPLITTER.

IF YOU'D LIKE PICTURES, . . SEND AN EMAIL TO

GLENNBOB

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Glennbob" > wrote

> THAT'S JUST THE PROBLEM. . . .THE JUNCTION BEING IN THE CENTER
> OF THE WING.

you should try typing that again, but without the caps lock on. there are
not many people that will take the time and effort to read a question that
is in all caps, which in newsgroups, known as shouting.
--
jim in nc

[RST Engineering]

"Glennbob" > wrote in message
s.com...

>
> THAT'S JUST THE PROBLEM. . . .THE JUNCTION BEING IN THE CENTER
> OF THE WING.

In the first place, don't type all caps.


I DON'T WANT IT IN THE CENTER OF THE WING. TOO MUCH
> METAL THERE FOR DISRUPTION.

Look at a Cessna. The whole damned vertical stabilizer is metal and they
run the center of the antenna right onto the surface. It isn't the CENTER
of the antenna that is critical, but the ends. You can have metal near the
first third of the antenna from the center without too much of a problem.

SO . . WITH THE CENTER OUTBOARD OF THE
> FUSELAGE, . . HOW DO I GET THE COAX BACK TO THE FUSELAGE WITHOUT
> DISRUPTING THE WING SHAPE ?

Simple. You don't.


>
> ANSWER : . . . I DON'T ! ! THOUGH I KNOW IT'S NOT THE BEST
> WAY, . . IT SEEMS THIS IS WHAT THE EZ COMMUNITY HAS BEEN DOING FOR A
> WHILE AND THEY ALL SEEM SATISFIED WITH IT,

That's because that's how I taught Rutan to do it nearbout thirty years ago
and he passed it on in his drawings.


. .BUT AFTER READING AN
> ARTICLE BY JIM WEIR,

....and taking what you read out of context ...


. .AND SEEING A SCHEMATIC THAT HE HAD SHOWING
> SEVERAL ANTENNAS ON EACH EXTREME WING AREA, I WANTED TO DO IT THAT
> WAY FOR BEST RESULTS.

....and given no constraints like ease of installation or repair, that's how
I'd do it. Any aircraft is a series of compromises flying in loose
formation.



BUT IT SEEMS THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE WORTH THE
> EXTRA EFFORT. SO . . . I PLAN TO USE THE VOR ANTENNA THAT IS ALREADY
> GLASSED INTO MY CANARD

Wasn't that antenna the one that was only about 10" long each side? That's
going to be a lousy VOR antenna.




AND I PLAN TO INSTALL A SECOND ONE FOR THE
> GLIDE SLOPE , . .SINCE IT IS MUCH SHORTER ( ABOUT 7.5 " ). I PLAN TO
> INSTAL IT RIGHT NEXT TO THE VOR ANTENNA SINCE I DON'T WANT TO USE A
> SPLITTER.

Jeez, I guess you just don't want to listen or follow drawings. Now you ARE
putting the ends of an antenna near metal, in this case both the VOR antenna
AND the ironmongery in the aircraft.


- - AGAIN, . .READING THE ARTICLE FROM JIM
> WEIR, . .SHOWS THAT THERE IS AN AUTOMATIC 30% LOSS OF SIGNAL WHEN
> USING A SPLITTER.

I'm glad you aren't in my class. Reading out of context like this
guarantees you an F for the semester. Jim NEVER said that there was a 30%
loss when using a GLIDESLOPE splitter. Now if you are using a splitter for
two VORs, yes, there is that loss. However, I've been flying aircraft for
forty years using splitters and as yet, not a problem with range. I'd never
show people how to make a splitter if I thought there was a problem.
Besides, even IF there was some loss in a glideslope splitter (which there
isn't), if a 30% loss to a 10 watt signal at 5 miles is a problem, you've
got more wrong than a splitter can cure.


>
> IF YOU'D LIKE PICTURES, . . SEND AN EMAIL TO


I'll bet it isn't a pretty sight.

Jim

[Glennbob]

On Apr 28, 10:43 am, "RST Engineering" >
wrote:
> "Glennbob" > wrote in message
>
> s.com...
>
>
>
> > THAT'S JUST THE PROBLEM. . . .THE JUNCTION BEING IN THE CENTER
> > OF THE WING.
>
> In the first place, don't type all caps.
>
> I DON'T WANT IT IN THE CENTER OF THE WING. TOO MUCH
>
> > METAL THERE FOR DISRUPTION.
>
> Look at a Cessna. The whole damned vertical stabilizer is metal and they
> run the center of the antenna right onto the surface. It isn't the CENTER
> of the antenna that is critical, but the ends. You can have metal near the
> first third of the antenna from the center without too much of a problem.
>
> SO . . WITH THE CENTER OUTBOARD OF THE
>
> > FUSELAGE, . . HOW DO I GET THE COAX BACK TO THE FUSELAGE WITHOUT
> > DISRUPTING THE WING SHAPE ?
>
> Simple. You don't.
>
>
>
> > ANSWER : . . . I DON'T ! ! THOUGH I KNOW IT'S NOT THE BEST
> > WAY, . . IT SEEMS THIS IS WHAT THE EZ COMMUNITY HAS BEEN DOING FOR A
> > WHILE AND THEY ALL SEEM SATISFIED WITH IT,
>
> That's because that's how I taught Rutan to do it nearbout thirty years ago
> and he passed it on in his drawings.
>
> . .BUT AFTER READING AN
>
> > ARTICLE BY JIM WEIR,
>
> ...and taking what you read out of context ...
>
> . .AND SEEING A SCHEMATIC THAT HE HAD SHOWING
>
> > SEVERAL ANTENNAS ON EACH EXTREME WING AREA, I WANTED TO DO IT THAT
> > WAY FOR BEST RESULTS.
>
> ...and given no constraints like ease of installation or repair, that's how
> I'd do it. Any aircraft is a series of compromises flying in loose
> formation.
>
> BUT IT SEEMS THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE WORTH THE
>
> > EXTRA EFFORT. SO . . . I PLAN TO USE THE VOR ANTENNA THAT IS ALREADY
> > GLASSED INTO MY CANARD
>
> Wasn't that antenna the one that was only about 10" long each side? That's
> going to be a lousy VOR antenna.
>
> AND I PLAN TO INSTALL A SECOND ONE FOR THE
>
> > GLIDE SLOPE , . .SINCE IT IS MUCH SHORTER ( ABOUT 7.5 " ). I PLAN TO
> > INSTAL IT RIGHT NEXT TO THE VOR ANTENNA SINCE I DON'T WANT TO USE A
> > SPLITTER.
>
> Jeez, I guess you just don't want to listen or follow drawings. Now you ARE
> putting the ends of an antenna near metal, in this case both the VOR antenna
> AND the ironmongery in the aircraft.
>
> - - AGAIN, . .READING THE ARTICLE FROM JIM
>
> > WEIR, . .SHOWS THAT THERE IS AN AUTOMATIC 30% LOSS OF SIGNAL WHEN
> > USING A SPLITTER.
>
> I'm glad you aren't in my class. Reading out of context like this
> guarantees you an F for the semester. Jim NEVER said that there was a 30%
> loss when using a GLIDESLOPE splitter. Now if you are using a splitter for
> two VORs, yes, there is that loss. However, I've been flying aircraft for
> forty years using splitters and as yet, not a problem with range. I'd never
> show people how to make a splitter if I thought there was a problem.
> Besides, even IF there was some loss in a glideslope splitter (which there
> isn't), if a 30% loss to a 10 watt signal at 5 miles is a problem, you've
> got more wrong than a splitter can cure.
>
>
>
> > IF YOU'D LIKE PICTURES, . . SEND AN EMAIL TO
>
> I'll bet it isn't a pretty sight.
>
> Jim



Thanks for the response ! !

I'd never have guessed you'd be such a jerk ! !

No pics for you.

Glennbob

P.S. . . . notice . . .no caps ! ! = )

[Glennbob]

On Apr 29, 11:57 pm, Glennbob > wrote:
> On Apr 28, 10:43 am, "RST Engineering" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Glennbob" > wrote in message
>
> s.com...
>
> > > THAT'S JUST THE PROBLEM. . . .THE JUNCTION BEING IN THE CENTER
> > > OF THE WING.
>
> > In the first place, don't type all caps.
>
> > I DON'T WANT IT IN THE CENTER OF THE WING. TOO MUCH
>
> > > METAL THERE FOR DISRUPTION.
>
> > Look at a Cessna. The whole damned vertical stabilizer is metal and they
> > run the center of the antenna right onto the surface. It isn't the CENTER
> > of the antenna that is critical, but the ends. You can have metal near the
> > first third of the antenna from the center without too much of a problem.
>
> > SO . . WITH THE CENTER OUTBOARD OF THE
>
> > > FUSELAGE, . . HOW DO I GET THE COAX BACK TO THE FUSELAGE WITHOUT
> > > DISRUPTING THE WING SHAPE ?
>
> > Simple. You don't.
>
> > > ANSWER : . . . I DON'T ! ! THOUGH I KNOW IT'S NOT THE BEST
> > > WAY, . . IT SEEMS THIS IS WHAT THE EZ COMMUNITY HAS BEEN DOING FOR A
> > > WHILE AND THEY ALL SEEM SATISFIED WITH IT,
>
> > That's because that's how I taught Rutan to do it nearbout thirty years ago
> > and he passed it on in his drawings.
>
> > . .BUT AFTER READING AN
>
> > > ARTICLE BY JIM WEIR,
>
> > ...and taking what you read out of context ...
>
> > . .AND SEEING A SCHEMATIC THAT HE HAD SHOWING
>
> > > SEVERAL ANTENNAS ON EACH EXTREME WING AREA, I WANTED TO DO IT THAT
> > > WAY FOR BEST RESULTS.
>
> > ...and given no constraints like ease of installation or repair, that's how
> > I'd do it. Any aircraft is a series of compromises flying in loose
> > formation.
>
> > BUT IT SEEMS THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE WORTH THE
>
> > > EXTRA EFFORT. SO . . . I PLAN TO USE THE VOR ANTENNA THAT IS ALREADY
> > > GLASSED INTO MY CANARD
>
> > Wasn't that antenna the one that was only about 10" long each side? That's
> > going to be a lousy VOR antenna.
>
> > AND I PLAN TO INSTALL A SECOND ONE FOR THE
>
> > > GLIDE SLOPE , . .SINCE IT IS MUCH SHORTER ( ABOUT 7.5 " ). I PLAN TO
> > > INSTAL IT RIGHT NEXT TO THE VOR ANTENNA SINCE I DON'T WANT TO USE A
> > > SPLITTER.
>
> > Jeez, I guess you just don't want to listen or follow drawings. Now you ARE
> > putting the ends of an antenna near metal, in this case both the VOR antenna
> > AND the ironmongery in the aircraft.
>
> > - - AGAIN, . .READING THE ARTICLE FROM JIM
>
> > > WEIR, . .SHOWS THAT THERE IS AN AUTOMATIC 30% LOSS OF SIGNAL WHEN
> > > USING A SPLITTER.
>
> > I'm glad you aren't in my class. Reading out of context like this
> > guarantees you an F for the semester. Jim NEVER said that there was a 30%
> > loss when using a GLIDESLOPE splitter. Now if you are using a splitter for
> > two VORs, yes, there is that loss. However, I've been flying aircraft for
> > forty years using splitters and as yet, not a problem with range. I'd never
> > show people how to make a splitter if I thought there was a problem.
> > Besides, even IF there was some loss in a glideslope splitter (which there
> > isn't), if a 30% loss to a 10 watt signal at 5 miles is a problem, you've
> > got more wrong than a splitter can cure.
>
> > > IF YOU'D LIKE PICTURES, . . SEND AN EMAIL TO
>
> > I'll bet it isn't a pretty sight.
>
> > Jim
>
> Thanks for the response ! !
>
> I'd never have guessed you'd be such a jerk ! !
>
> No pics for you.
>
> Glennbob
>
> P.S. . . . notice . . .no caps ! ! = )- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Jim,

Turns out, the VOR antenna that I THOUGHT was only 10 or so inches
long, I think really IS the correct length, but the outboard
sections are covered with the finish material of the wing. Only the
inboard section is visible since this portion was not finished to the
same degree since no one will see it inside the fuselage.

Sorry about the caps. Sorry if you think I took your article out of
context.

I too am glad I'm not in your class ! ! What would I do with an " F
" ? = )

I'll try the glideslope splitter. . . . Thanks !

Glennbob

[Glennbob]

On Apr 28, 8:19 am, "Morgans" > wrote:
> "Glennbob" > wrote
>
> > THAT'S JUST THE PROBLEM. . . .THE JUNCTION BEING IN THE CENTER
> > OF THE WING.
>
> you should try typing that again, but without the caps lock on. there are
> not many people that will take the time and effort to read a question that
> is in all caps, which in newsgroups, known as shouting.
> --
> jim in nc



I AM sorry about that. I'm new to this stuff and I was just doing it
for clarity. Thanks for the heads - up. Won't do it again that's for
sure ! !

Glennbob

[Cy Galley]

Why not ask Bob Archer???


"Glennbob" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Apr 28, 8:19 am, "Morgans" > wrote:
>> "Glennbob" > wrote
>>
>> > THAT'S JUST THE PROBLEM. . . .THE JUNCTION BEING IN THE CENTER
>> > OF THE WING.
>>
>> you should try typing that again, but without the caps lock on. there
>> are
>> not many people that will take the time and effort to read a question
>> that
>> is in all caps, which in newsgroups, known as shouting.
>> --
>> jim in nc
>
>
>
> I AM sorry about that. I'm new to this stuff and I was just doing it
> for clarity. Thanks for the heads - up. Won't do it again that's for
> sure ! !
>
> Glennbob
>