question: can I usefully log it?

[[email protected]]

So I flew recently in a Commander. I was not a required crew member in
this part 91 flight. I flew right seat and an ATP was PIC. He's not a
CFI and I'm not instrument-rated.

Can I log the time in some way to count the time towards experience in
IMC or my total time? Of course I can stick it in my logbook if I feel
like it, but could it count towards anything?

[BT]

A Commander as in single engine or multi?
If it was single engine, and you are at least a Private Pilot SEL, then you
can log any time you were "sole manipulator" of the controls.
If you are Instrument rated, you can log that time that you were sole
manipulator in IMC.

If it was a Multi engine commander (AC690B) etc, and you do not have a multi
rating, unless he wants to sign your logbook as "dual given", then other as
a nice entry in the logbooks, it does not count for much. Same for the IMC
if you are not instrument rated.

Otherwise, an enjoyable trip. An ATP may instruct other pilots in air
transportation service (61.167b), most ATPs maintain a CFII rating, many may
not.

BT

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> So I flew recently in a Commander. I was not a required crew member in
> this part 91 flight. I flew right seat and an ATP was PIC. He's not a
> CFI and I'm not instrument-rated.
>
> Can I log the time in some way to count the time towards experience in
> IMC or my total time? Of course I can stick it in my logbook if I feel
> like it, but could it count towards anything?
>

[[email protected]]

It was a multi and I am a lowly PP-ASEL. If he is not a CFI, can he
sign my logbook as dual given?

On May 7, 1:14 am, "BT" > wrote:
> A Commander as in single engine or multi?
> If it was single engine, and you are at least a Private Pilot SEL, then you
> can log any time you were "sole manipulator" of the controls.
> If you are Instrument rated, you can log that time that you were sole
> manipulator in IMC.
>
> If it was a Multi engine commander (AC690B) etc, and you do not have a multi
> rating, unless he wants to sign your logbook as "dual given", then other as
> a nice entry in the logbooks, it does not count for much. Same for the IMC
> if you are not instrument rated.
>
> Otherwise, an enjoyable trip. An ATP may instruct other pilots in air
> transportation service (61.167b), most ATPs maintain a CFII rating, many may
> not.
>
> BT
>
> > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > So I flew recently in a Commander. I was not a required crew member in
> > this part 91 flight. I flew right seat and an ATP was PIC. He's not a
> > CFI and I'm not instrument-rated.
>
> > Can I log the time in some way to count the time towards experience in
> > IMC or my total time? Of course I can stick it in my logbook if I feel
> > like it, but could it count towards anything?

[Ron Natalie]

You can log instrument time for that part of the flight that
you fly solely by reference to instruments in actual or simulated
instrument conditions. The words "sole manipulator" do not appear
in the instrument logging rules nor is their a requirement to have
any particular rating (instrument or for the aircraft).

[[email protected]]

Interesting. So did all the time above 18,000 count as instrument
conditions, even though we could see the horizon some of the time? Or
is it only the time we were in IMC?

On May 7, 6:41 am, Ron Natalie > wrote:
> You can log instrument time for that part of the flight that
> you fly solely by reference to instruments in actual or simulated
> instrument conditions. The words "sole manipulator" do not appear
> in the instrument logging rules nor is their a requirement to have
> any particular rating (instrument or for the aircraft).

[Ron Natalie]

wrote:
> Interesting. So did all the time above 18,000 count as instrument
> conditions, even though we could see the horizon some of the time? Or
> is it only the time we were in IMC?
>
The FAA is pretty lenient in what constitute loggable instrument
conditions. If the horizon is indefinite enough to require
instruments (dark night, legally VFR but hazy, etc...) they
will allow it. Just being in the class A, I don't think so.

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 6, 10:19 pm, wrote:
> It was a multi and I am a lowly PP-ASEL. If he is not a CFI, can he
> sign my logbook as dual given?
>
> On May 7, 1:14 am, "BT" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > A Commander as in single engine or multi?
> > If it was single engine, and you are at least a Private Pilot SEL, then you
> > can log any time you were "sole manipulator" of the controls.
> > If you are Instrument rated, you can log that time that you were sole
> > manipulator in IMC.
>
> > If it was a Multi engine commander (AC690B) etc, and you do not have a multi
> > rating, unless he wants to sign your logbook as "dual given", then other as
> > a nice entry in the logbooks, it does not count for much. Same for the IMC
> > if you are not instrument rated.
>
> > Otherwise, an enjoyable trip. An ATP may instruct other pilots in air
> > transportation service (61.167b), most ATPs maintain a CFII rating, many may
> > not.
>
> > BT
>
> > > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > > So I flew recently in a Commander. I was not a required crew member in
> > > this part 91 flight. I flew right seat and an ATP was PIC. He's not a
> > > CFI and I'm not instrument-rated.
>
> > > Can I log the time in some way to count the time towards experience in
> > > IMC or my total time? Of course I can stick it in my logbook if I feel
> > > like it, but could it count towards anything?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No. The only time an ATP can sign your log book to allow you to log
the flight is if its connection with a 135 or 121 operation and he's
acting as a check pilot. Sorry to say, from my understanding, if you
were flying in a twin and do not hold any multiengine ratings, you
cannot log anything of the flight, instrument or not.

-Robert, CFII

[BT]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On May 6, 10:19 pm, wrote:
>> It was a multi and I am a lowly PP-ASEL. If he is not a CFI, can he
>> sign my logbook as dual given?
>>
>> On May 7, 1:14 am, "BT" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > A Commander as in single engine or multi?
>> > If it was single engine, and you are at least a Private Pilot SEL, then
>> > you
>> > can log any time you were "sole manipulator" of the controls.
>> > If you are Instrument rated, you can log that time that you were sole
>> > manipulator in IMC.
>>
>> > If it was a Multi engine commander (AC690B) etc, and you do not have a
>> > multi
>> > rating, unless he wants to sign your logbook as "dual given", then
>> > other as
>> > a nice entry in the logbooks, it does not count for much. Same for the
>> > IMC
>> > if you are not instrument rated.
>>
>> > Otherwise, an enjoyable trip. An ATP may instruct other pilots in air
>> > transportation service (61.167b), most ATPs maintain a CFII rating,
>> > many may
>> > not.
>>
>> > BT
>>
>> > > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>> > > So I flew recently in a Commander. I was not a required crew member
>> > > in
>> > > this part 91 flight. I flew right seat and an ATP was PIC. He's not a
>> > > CFI and I'm not instrument-rated.
>>
>> > > Can I log the time in some way to count the time towards experience
>> > > in
>> > > IMC or my total time? Of course I can stick it in my logbook if I
>> > > feel
>> > > like it, but could it count towards anything?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> No. The only time an ATP can sign your log book to allow you to log
> the flight is if its connection with a 135 or 121 operation and he's
> acting as a check pilot. Sorry to say, from my understanding, if you
> were flying in a twin and do not hold any multiengine ratings, you
> cannot log anything of the flight, instrument or not.
>
> -Robert, CFII

Now that we know it was a twin... agreed.
BT