Europe's GPS program in trouble.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6634285.stm

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 8, 1:01 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6634285.stm

This is the system that the EU put together to compete with the U.S.
GPS system, right? Did we ever find out why they don't want to use the
U.S. system?

[RST Engineering]

Ever hear of the n.i.h. factor?

Jim



"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On May 8, 1:01 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> wrote:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6634285.stm
>
> This is the system that the EU put together to compete with the U.S.
> GPS system, right? Did we ever find out why they don't want to use the
> U.S. system?
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On May 8, 1:01 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> wrote:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6634285.stm
>
> This is the system that the EU put together to compete with the U.S.
> GPS system, right? Did we ever find out why they don't want to use the
> U.S. system?

Yes it is.

Because we control ours.

[Tom L.]

On 8 May 2007 13:32:24 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>On May 8, 1:01 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
>wrote:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6634285.stm
>
>This is the system that the EU put together to compete with the U.S.
>GPS system, right?

It's not a competition but an addition. It will be compatible with GPS
(whatever that means), and, together with GPS, improve positioning
accuracy and reliability worldwide.

Check this:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/energy_transport/galileo/intro/future_en.htm

> Did we ever find out why they don't want to use the
>U.S. system?

They do want to use it. They just don't want to depend on it.

- Tom

[john smith[_2_]]

In article . com>,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> On May 8, 1:01 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> wrote:
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6634285.stm
>
> This is the system that the EU put together to compete with the U.S.
> GPS system, right? Did we ever find out why they don't want to use the
> U.S. system?

It's a control issue. They don't like the fact that the US government
can alter the signals, for any reason, whenever they choose.

As dependence on the gpss grows, the reliability and accuracy of the
signals becomes more important than any country's national interests.

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 08 May 2007 22:06:48 GMT, Tom L. > wrote
in >:

>It will be compatible with GPS
>(whatever that means), and, together with GPS, improve positioning
>accuracy and reliability worldwide.

Apparently the USAF is about to let a contract for the next generation
GPS, and according to Boeing's press release below, it may be
interoperable with Europe's upcoming Galileo system:


ST. LOUIS, April 26, 2007 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] this month
successfully completed a critical Global Positioning System (GPS)
Space Segment III System Design Review, supporting the U.S. Air
Force's requirement for a low-risk, high-confidence acquisition
solution.

During the review, Boeing demonstrated the technical readiness of
its GPS III payload design that will allow the Air Force to field
and upgrade GPS satellites quickly and cost effectively. This
solution, combined with signal power improvements, provides a more
capable GPS service for civilian and military users.

"We clearly showed the technical maturity and backward
compatibility of our flexible and scalable design for the Air
Force," said Charles Toups, vice president, Boeing Navigation and
Communication Systems, a unit of Boeing Space and Intelligence
Systems. "We designed the GPS III system to be scalable so the
design of the first spacecraft can gracefully grow to accommodate
future capability upgrades without requiring an entirely new
spacecraft design. This approach greatly reduces costly and time
intensive re-qualification and shortens the development time to
deploy new capabilities."

The Air Force is expected to award the multi-billion dollar GPS
III contract soon in order to meet a projected launch need in
2013. Boeing's "back-to-the-basics" space system acquisition plan
positions Boeing and the Air Force to move forward with detailed
design development and, eventually, GPS III production.

GPS III will provide improved navigation and timing accuracy and
broadcast more powerful signals that are less vulnerable to
jamming. It also will incorporate a new civil signal that is
interoperable with Europe's upcoming Galileo system. Boeing's
adaptable GPS III design allows the government to provide enhanced
position, navigation and timing information while effectively
managing lifecycle costs.

Boeing is working closely with the U.S. Air Force to deliver new,
advanced GPS capabilities to the military, civil government and
general public as early as possible. This includes Boeing's
current production of 12 GPS Block IIF satellites under a contract
from the U.S. Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center in Los
Angeles. Boeing will deliver the first GPS IIF satellite in 2008.

A unit of The Boeing Company, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems
<http://www.boeing.com/ids/index.html> is one of the world's
largest space and defense businesses specializing in innovative
and capabilities-driven customer solutions. Headquartered in St.
Louis, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems is a $32.4 billion
business with 72,000 employees worldwide.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
john smith > wrote:

> As dependence on the gpss grows, the reliability and accuracy of the
> signals becomes more important than any country's national interests.

ohmygawd! get a grip.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Jim Logajan]

Larry Dighera > wrote:
> Apparently the USAF is about to let a contract for the next generation
> GPS, and according to Boeing's press release below, it may be
> interoperable with Europe's upcoming Galileo system:

Wow - quick work - it's already inoperable along with tha Galileo system!

Say what? You wrote "interoperable"? Never mind!

;-)

[Martin Hotze]

john smith schrieb:


>> This is the system that the EU put together to compete with the U.S.
>> GPS system, right? Did we ever find out why they don't want to use the
>> U.S. system?
>
> It's a control issue. They don't like the fact that the US government
> can alter the signals, for any reason, whenever they choose.

Problem is that our idiot bureaucrats already signed up to partner with
the US and granted full access to the satellites. What a bunch of idiots.

> As dependence on the gpss grows, the reliability and accuracy of the
> signals becomes more important than any country's national interests.


well, it seems that we already gave in ... :-(

#m
--
I am not a terrorist <http://www.casualdisobedience.com/>

[Thomas Borchert]

Robert,

> Did we ever find out why they don't want to use the
> U.S. system?
>

Well, the common sense answer is: All eggs in one basket might not be a
good idea for what is probably the most critical piece of global
infrastructure around these days. Especially when the basket is held by
people like Dubya.

The counterargument for this runs like this: GPS has become way too
much of a factor in common life and in the global economy that any US
president could ever afford to switch it off or degrade it much. An
Iranian nuke hitting the White House due to navigation signals provided
by an 80 dollar Etrex GPS might change that view in a hurry, however.

The EU real life answer does include the above, but also: pride and
jealousy, complaints by EADS and other high-tech companies that mostly
US companies are cashing in on the sat nav market and similar reasons.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[john smith]

Thomas and Martin:

What can you tell us about GPS usage in Europe.
How common is it in Europe to see gps displays in motor vehicles and
people walking around with handheld gps units?

[Thomas Borchert]

John,

> How common is it in Europe to see gps displays in motor vehicles and
> people walking around with handheld gps units?
>

The portable navigator market for cars has practically been invented in
Europe. TomTom is a company from the Netherlands. The US is still
lagging behind in market penetration for these devices.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Thomas Borchert > posted:

> John,
>
>> How common is it in Europe to see gps displays in motor vehicles and
>> people walking around with handheld gps units?
>>
>
> The portable navigator market for cars has practically been invented
> in Europe. TomTom is a company from the Netherlands. The US is still
> lagging behind in market penetration for these devices.
>
If this notion of market penetration is based on percentages that wouldn't
imply much.

Neil

[Martin Hotze]

john smith schrieb:

> Thomas and Martin:
>
> What can you tell us about GPS usage in Europe.
> How common is it in Europe to see gps displays in motor vehicles and


GPS displays are becoming more and more a standard equipment in (a
little bit higher priced) cars.

> people walking around with handheld gps units?


Mostly (IMHO) one buys handhelds as an "upgrade" for car navigation (in
older cars). I have no insight in groups like mountain climbers and the
like.

Next thing coming is mobile phones with GPS chips and digital cameras
with GPS chips.

#m
--
I am not a terrorist <http://www.casualdisobedience.com/>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Martin Hotze wrote:

> Next thing coming is mobile phones with GPS chips and digital cameras
> with GPS chips.
>


You're so behind the times Martin.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,115273-page,1/article.html and that
article is from 2004.

Haven't seen the cameras with GPS Chips yet. Though I haven't looked either.

[Martin Hotze]

Gig 601XL Builder schrieb:

> Martin Hotze wrote:
>
>> Next thing coming is mobile phones with GPS chips and digital cameras
>> with GPS chips.
>>
>
>
> You're so behind the times Martin.
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,115273-page,1/article.html and that
> article is from 2004.
>
> Haven't seen the cameras with GPS Chips yet. Though I haven't looked either.

I know that they exist, but what I wanted to say is that these cameras
become readily available and a mass product.

#m
--
I am not a terrorist <http://www.casualdisobedience.com/>

[Chris]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Thomas and Martin:
>
> What can you tell us about GPS usage in Europe.
> How common is it in Europe to see gps displays in motor vehicles and
> people walking around with handheld gps units?

Most pilots I know have gps in the aircraft either a fixed installation or a
handheld.
gps has not been approved everywhere for navigation or approaches - Uk have
just decided to do it.

As far as cars go again either portable devices or fixed installations
depending on price are very common with Tom Tom and Garmin being main
suppliers.

Etrex types popular with walkers

So gps is prevalent.

They are talking about putting units in cars for road pricing purposed - pay
as you drive, with different tariffs for different roads and times of day.

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> On May 8, 1:01 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> wrote:
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6634285.stm
>
> This is the system that the EU put together to compete with the U.S.
> GPS system, right? Did we ever find out why they don't want to use the
> U.S. system?

NIH syndrome

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Tom L. writes:

> It's not a competition but an addition. It will be compatible with GPS
> (whatever that means), and, together with GPS, improve positioning
> accuracy and reliability worldwide.

And unlike the GPS, it won't be free.

> They do want to use it. They just don't want to depend on it.

They'd be better off depending on GPS than depending on something they cobbled
together themselves.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Thomas Borchert writes:

> The counterargument for this runs like this: GPS has become way too
> much of a factor in common life and in the global economy that any US
> president could ever afford to switch it off or degrade it much. An
> Iranian nuke hitting the White House due to navigation signals provided
> by an 80 dollar Etrex GPS might change that view in a hurry, however.

The view would quickly be forced back. Terrorists use telephones, but that
doesn't mean that any country can afford to shut off telephone service. GPS
is moving in the same direction.

> The EU real life answer does include the above, but also: pride and
> jealousy, complaints by EADS and other high-tech companies that mostly
> US companies are cashing in on the sat nav market and similar reasons.

Pride and jealousy among the European tribes killed 100 million in the
previous century; sounds like they still haven't grown out of it. As long as
they cannot get a grip, the U.S., China, and India will continue to leave them
in an ever-longer trail of dust.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Tom L. writes:
>
>> It's not a competition but an addition. It will be compatible with
>> GPS (whatever that means), and, together with GPS, improve
>> positioning accuracy and reliability worldwide.
>
> And unlike the GPS, it won't be free.
>
>> They do want to use it. They just don't want to depend on it.
>
> They'd be better off depending on GPS than depending on something they
> cobbled together themselves.

You're wrong agian, fjukktard



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Thomas Borchert writes:
>
>> The counterargument for this runs like this: GPS has become way too
>> much of a factor in common life and in the global economy that any US
>> president could ever afford to switch it off or degrade it much. An
>> Iranian nuke hitting the White House due to navigation signals
>> provided by an 80 dollar Etrex GPS might change that view in a hurry,
>> however.
>
> The view would quickly be forced back. Terrorists use telephones, but
> that doesn't mean that any country can afford to shut off telephone
> service. GPS is moving in the same direction.

No, it isn't, fjukktard



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>> On May 8, 1:01 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6634285.stm
>>
>> This is the system that the EU put together to compete with the U.S.
>> GPS system, right? Did we ever find out why they don't want to use
the
>> U.S. system?
>
> NIH syndrome
>

Nope, wrong, again.


Bertie