OSH ...aluminum needs polishing. HELP!!

[Montblack]

http://www.ionaircraft.com/Toucan.jpg
The GREEN (aluminum) parts need polishing.

What's a good 1-2-3-4-5.... step process for polishing up the aluminum
wings - for OSH?

http://www.ionaircraft.com/engineering.html

This will be my first time doing this, so don't skimp on the details please.

Thanks in advance.


Montblack
Double (TIA) if you swing by ANE and give me a hand. <g>

http://www.airnav.com/airport/ANE
(ANE) Anoka County-Blaine Airport, MN

http://skyvector.com/#20-117-3-1525-583
16NM (north) @ 12 o'clock on the MSP Sectional

[Bob Kuykendall]

[off-topic]

What are the wings bonded with? Will they safely withstand the
internal temperatures they'll see in bare aluminum finish?

Thanks, Bob K.

[Montblack]

("Bob Kuykendall" wrote)
> What are the wings bonded with? Will they safely withstand the internal
> temperatures they'll see in bare aluminum finish?


Don't have the details for you. I'll ask, and report back.

I'm heading over to ION World Headquarters now (which Steve calls the left
side of Al's hangar).


Montblack
I also need to head over to the airport and re-hang our "Blaine Aviation
Weekend (May 19 - 20)" sign. It didn't like the 50+mph winds that blew
through here the other evening.

[RST Engineering]

I guess my memory of thermodynamics isn't what it never was. Isn't a
perfectly reflecting surface much better than one that doesn't reflect the
energy? Like why snow doesn't melt very fast except when the bare ground
shows through and then all of a sudden the snow is gone.

Something about albedo, as I vaguely remember.

Jim



"Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> [off-topic]
>
> What are the wings bonded with? Will they safely withstand the
> internal temperatures they'll see in bare aluminum finish?
>
> Thanks, Bob K.
>

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, Jim Weir wrote:

> ...Isn't a perfectly reflecting surface much better than
> one that doesn't reflect the energy?...

In theory, yes.

In practice bare aluminum, even highly polished bare aluminum, absorbs
enough energy in direct sunlight to threaten some materials used in
bonded aluminum.

Thanks, Bob K.

[Peter Dohm]

"Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Earlier, Jim Weir wrote:
>
> > ...Isn't a perfectly reflecting surface much better than
> > one that doesn't reflect the energy?...
>
> In theory, yes.
>
> In practice bare aluminum, even highly polished bare aluminum, absorbs
> enough energy in direct sunlight to threaten some materials used in
> bonded aluminum.
>
> Thanks, Bob K.
>
Despite the obvious glare of visible light, polished aluminum absorbs far
mor solar energy than white.

Peter

[Wayne Paul]

"Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Earlier, Jim Weir wrote:
>>
>> > ...Isn't a perfectly reflecting surface much better than
>> > one that doesn't reflect the energy?...
>>
>> In theory, yes.
>>
>> In practice bare aluminum, even highly polished bare aluminum, absorbs
>> enough energy in direct sunlight to threaten some materials used in
>> bonded aluminum.
>>
>> Thanks, Bob K.
>>
> Despite the obvious glare of visible light, polished aluminum absorbs far
> mor solar energy than white.
>

This was discussed a while back. For details see
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Color_Temp.html

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder

[Rip]

Montblack wrote:
> http://www.ionaircraft.com/Toucan.jpg
> The GREEN (aluminum) parts need polishing.
>
> What's a good 1-2-3-4-5.... step process for polishing up the aluminum
> wings - for OSH?
>
> http://www.ionaircraft.com/engineering.html
>
> This will be my first time doing this, so don't skimp on the details please.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Montblack
> Double (TIA) if you swing by ANE and give me a hand. <g>
>
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/ANE
> (ANE) Anoka County-Blaine Airport, MN
>
> http://skyvector.com/#20-117-3-1525-583
> 16NM (north) @ 12 o'clock on the MSP Sectional


Go here. All you need to know:
http://vintageairstream.com/Myrtle/polish1.html

[Bill Daniels]

"Wayne Paul" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> Earlier, Jim Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> > ...Isn't a perfectly reflecting surface much better than
>>> > one that doesn't reflect the energy?...
>>>
>>> In theory, yes.
>>>
>>> In practice bare aluminum, even highly polished bare aluminum, absorbs
>>> enough energy in direct sunlight to threaten some materials used in
>>> bonded aluminum.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Bob K.
>>>
>> Despite the obvious glare of visible light, polished aluminum absorbs far
>> mor solar energy than white.
>>
>
> This was discussed a while back. For details see
> http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Color_Temp.html
>
> Wayne
> HP-14 "6F"
> http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder
>
The following is from Bellcore. The first number is the solar energy
absorbed the second is the low temperature heat radiation. As you can see,
polished alumunum absorbs only slightly more than white paint but radiates
only 6% as much heat. In other words, although it absorbs little, it
radiates much less so it heats up more than any painted surface.

Polished Aluminum .15 .06

White .14 .97

Yellow .30 .95

Cream .25 .95

Light Grey, Green Blue .50 .87

Med. Grey, Green Blue .75 .95

Dark Grey, Green Blue .95 .95

Black .97 .96



Bill Daniels

[Big John]

Montblack

True story.

We had a Air Force General who wanted his personal aircraft to be
polished aluminum so got a crew and they took all the paint off and
polished bird up until it shined.

Really looked snazzy.

All the time bird was home in hanger there was a crew who polished it
every day to keep shiny.

After the General left the polish crew was pulled and in a short while
the aluminum corroded and bird had to be Class 26'd (junked).

So. If you want to keep polishing all the time then go ahead and
polish the alclad off and the bare aluminum will corrode away.

It's like a wooden boat where you have to keep working on the wood to
keep it afloat.

And the pointy end goes forward :o)

Big John
***********************************.


On Tue, 8 May 2007 14:22:08 -0500, "Montblack"
> wrote:

>http://www.ionaircraft.com/Toucan.jpg
>The GREEN (aluminum) parts need polishing.
>
>What's a good 1-2-3-4-5.... step process for polishing up the aluminum
>wings - for OSH?
>
>http://www.ionaircraft.com/engineering.html
>
>This will be my first time doing this, so don't skimp on the details please.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Montblack
>Double (TIA) if you swing by ANE and give me a hand. <g>
>
>http://www.airnav.com/airport/ANE
>(ANE) Anoka County-Blaine Airport, MN
>
>http://skyvector.com/#20-117-3-1525-583
>16NM (north) @ 12 o'clock on the MSP Sectional
>
>

[john smith]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> The following is from Bellcore. The first number is the solar energy
> absorbed the second is the low temperature heat radiation. As you can see,
> polished alumunum absorbs only slightly more than white paint but radiates
> only 6% as much heat. In other words, although it absorbs little, it
> radiates much less so it heats up more than any painted surface.
>
> Polished Aluminum .15 .06
>
> White .14 .97
>
> Yellow .30 .95
>
> Cream .25 .95
>
> Light Grey, Green Blue .50 .87
>
> Med. Grey, Green Blue .75 .95
>
> Dark Grey, Green Blue .95 .95
>
> Black .97 .96

Hmm?
You think this may be why so many airplanes are mostly white?

[Bill Daniels]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Bill Daniels wrote:
>> The following is from Bellcore. The first number is the solar energy
>> absorbed the second is the low temperature heat radiation. As you can
>> see, polished alumunum absorbs only slightly more than white paint but
>> radiates only 6% as much heat. In other words, although it absorbs
>> little, it radiates much less so it heats up more than any painted
>> surface.
>>
>> Polished Aluminum .15 .06
>>
>> White .14 .97
>>
>> Yellow .30 .95
>>
>> Cream .25 .95
>>
>> Light Grey, Green Blue .50 .87
>>
>> Med. Grey, Green Blue .75 .95
>>
>> Dark Grey, Green Blue .95 .95
>>
>> Black .97 .96
>
> Hmm?
> You think this may be why so many airplanes are mostly white?

It is absolutely why composite aircraft structures are white. My white
carbon/glass composite glider has a structure thermometer. The POH states
the maximun structure temperature at which a flight can begin.

The next time you have a chance to look at some old cars, compare the white
ones to, say, red ones. White paint seems to last forever. White paint
reduces air conditioning requirements and in turn increases gas milage.

Bill Daniels

[Graverobber[_2_]]

http://www.napanet.net/~arbeau/swift/polish.htm

http://www.perfectpolish.com/

And, lots of elbow grease.


--
Rob Ball
B-25 Crewmember
Yankee Warrior


"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.ionaircraft.com/Toucan.jpg
> The GREEN (aluminum) parts need polishing.
>
> What's a good 1-2-3-4-5.... step process for polishing up the aluminum
> wings - for OSH?
>
> http://www.ionaircraft.com/engineering.html
>
> This will be my first time doing this, so don't skimp on the details
> please.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Montblack
> Double (TIA) if you swing by ANE and give me a hand. <g>
>
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/ANE
> (ANE) Anoka County-Blaine Airport, MN
>
> http://skyvector.com/#20-117-3-1525-583
> 16NM (north) @ 12 o'clock on the MSP Sectional
>
>
>

[SkyDaddy]

My first warbird ride was a result of lending a hand polishing a
BT-13. If I were still close to ANE I'd be happy to drop by. :-D
Sadly, I'm nowhere near these days. The Blaine AvDays show is a good
time. Wear comfy walking shoes, though...

There's a cream called FLITZ imported from Germany. It's got
potassium in it. Apparently oxygen bonds with potassium better than
it does with aluminum (or nearly any other metal - FLITZ is a all-
purpose polisher). FLITZ steals the oxygen from the AlO and leaves a
black residue on top of the shiny, shiny bare aluminum.

To get the potassium oxide off, you sprinkle baking soda (buy several
BIG boxes at Sam's Club) generously over the surface. Then do the
"wax-on, wax-off" thing with many, many rags. (Baking soda is a very
mild abrasive as well as being absorbent.)

Result: screaming shoulders and bright shiny metal.

On May 8, 3:22 pm, "Montblack" <Y4_NOT!...
> wrote:
> http://www.ionaircraft.com/Toucan.jpg
> The GREEN (aluminum) parts need polishing.
>
> What's a good 1-2-3-4-5.... step process for polishing up the aluminum
> wings - for OSH?
>
> http://www.ionaircraft.com/engineering.html
>
> This will be my first time doing this, so don't skimp on the details please.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Montblack
> Double (TIA) if you swing by ANE and give me a hand. <g>
>
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/ANE
> (ANE) Anoka County-Blaine Airport, MN
>
> http://skyvector.com/#20-117-3-1525-583
> 16NM (north) @ 12 o'clock on the MSP Sectional

[Nathan Young]

On Tue, 8 May 2007 18:53:17 -0600, "Bill Daniels"
<bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:

>>
>The following is from Bellcore. The first number is the solar energy
>absorbed the second is the low temperature heat radiation.

Great post, thanks for the data !

-Nathan

[Jeff[_4_]]

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in
:

>
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Bill Daniels wrote:
>>> The following is from Bellcore. The first number is the solar
>>> energy absorbed the second is the low temperature heat radiation.
>>> As you can see, polished alumunum absorbs only slightly more than
>>> white paint but radiates only 6% as much heat. In other words,
>>> although it absorbs little, it radiates much less so it heats up
>>> more than any painted surface.
>>>
>>> Polished Aluminum .15 .06
>>>
>>> White .14 .97
>>>
>>> Yellow .30 .95
>>>
>>> Cream .25 .95
>>>
>>> Light Grey, Green Blue .50 .87
>>>
>>> Med. Grey, Green Blue .75 .95
>>>
>>> Dark Grey, Green Blue .95 .95
>>>
>>> Black .97 .96
>>
>> Hmm?
>> You think this may be why so many airplanes are mostly white?
>
> It is absolutely why composite aircraft structures are white. My
> white carbon/glass composite glider has a structure thermometer. The
> POH states the maximun structure temperature at which a flight can
> begin.
>
> The next time you have a chance to look at some old cars, compare the
> white ones to, say, red ones. White paint seems to last forever.
> White paint reduces air conditioning requirements and in turn
> increases gas milage.
>
> Bill Daniels
>
>

But the red cars go faster. At least the police seem to think so. :)

[Rob Turk]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in
> :
>>> You think this may be why so many airplanes are mostly white?
>>
>> It is absolutely why composite aircraft structures are white. My
>> white carbon/glass composite glider has a structure thermometer. The
>> POH states the maximun structure temperature at which a flight can
>> begin.
>>
>> The next time you have a chance to look at some old cars, compare the
>> white ones to, say, red ones. White paint seems to last forever.
>> White paint reduces air conditioning requirements and in turn
>> increases gas milage.
>>
>> Bill Daniels
>>
>>
>
> But the red cars go faster. At least the police seem to think so. :)
>

Oh darn... Does that mean I have to strip my plane and start all over?!?
;-) See: http://www.rtist.nl/Album/Pioniershal%202007/index.html

Rob