Don't fly weather briefing

[Kyle Boatright]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...

>
> Anyone else had a similar issue with a briefer not doing his job because
> he/she thought you shouldn't fly that day.
>
> Danny Deger

Just like everyone else, briefers have good and bad days. My worst
experience with a briefer was my first trip (100 hour pilot) into Oshkosh
for the EAA convention. I'd already called operations at Oshkosh that
morning to verify that parking was available for GA aircraft, and the answer
was yep, plenty of parking was available.

Of course, the briefer hadn't had that conversation and when I asked for a
brief into OSH, he told me I couldn't go there, the field was full. I
explained the situation and his response was "Oh, so you think you know more
than I do...?".

As a 100 hour pilot I was somewhat intimidated, but flew into Oshkosh
anyway, got an excellent parking spot in the North 40, and had a great time.
Today, I'd ask for the guy's supervisor.

More on topic, I think the standard briefer boilerplate is to tell you why
you shouldn't fly, not that if you're smart, you should be OK. I've made
many flights in weather where the brief was "VFR not recommended", but all
you had to do was look outside the window and steer clear of the nasty
stuff. Alternately, if the nasty stuff gets too close together, landing is
always an option. Been there, done that too.

KB

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 12, 4:34 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
> Has anyone else noticed a tendency for FSS briefers to give you a "stay on
> the ground" weather briefing for isolated thunderstorms? 90% of the time on
> a summer day in Texas there are some storms. Usually easy to see and avoid.
> But I have in the past had a controller that obviously didn't want me to
> fly. The worst case was a VFR flight between Houston and Austin with a
> single cell between the two cities. All the controller would tell me about
> was how bad the weather in the cell was. He refused to provide me with any
> weather information outside of the cell. I ended by hanging up and calling
> back. The next briefer told me about the very good weather outside of the
> single cell and I had a good flight. This is only the worst of my
> experiences with briefers and thunderstorms.
>
> Anyone else had a similar issue with a briefer not doing his job because
> he/she thought you shouldn't fly that day.
>
> Danny Deger

You just need to be direct. "Do you not have weather outside of the
cell or are you refusing to give me weather outside of the cell".

-Robert

[Luke Skywalker]

On May 12, 6:34 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:

>
> Anyone else had a similar issue with a briefer not doing his job because
> he/she thought you shouldn't fly that day.
>
> Danny Deger

Danny

This gets me into my stick about "VFR not recommended". This is an
old phrase but it has never really grown on me.

The trick I have found in a wx BF is to act as if you are in the
plane, ie take control of it in terms of the information that you are
seeking. DeRidder is really very good at what they do and back home
in the states I call them wherever I am (and will miss them when they
are gone).

Not knowing what you were told, but in a case like yours my response
would have been "So its reasonable to say that I can work my way
around this one isolated thunderstorm VFR or what makes you interpret
the information different then I do?"

Most briefers are very good, and some are not. A possibility is that
this guy/gal just got a pirep from someone who has had a bad
experience and was trying to convey that.

Some years ago I was coming back to Houston from Dallas and I started
out VFR. I had a briefing which seemed to be "moderate" VFR was solid
all the way to Houston. By the time I got to Corsicana (spell)
moderate had dropped to low. They stayed "low" until I got near
Madisonville and I was working very hard to stay VFR and wondering why
I had not just filed and gone. Finally around Madisonville things
went back to moderate and I drove on in.

As I got near Houston I got Montgomery county on the line and fed them
some info about the bad weather. Landing at Pearland a "friend" was
going to retrace my route (quite by circumstance). He told me that
the briefer had been really down about his odds of making it VFR
because of a PIREP from a guy in a 175. I told him "Yeah I know that
was me!"

The guy went anyway VFR (he could file if he had to) and said later
the WX was solid VFR 3000 or so on the clouds (it was the ceiling that
was the problem). Depends on the time I guess.

Robert

[Luke Skywalker]

On May 12, 10:46 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:

>
> Danny Deger
>
>
>
Danny.

A minor nit..really minor. I always refer to the folks who give the
briefing as "Briefers". Not controllers.

Controllers...they have the ability to issue
instructions...Briefers...not so much.

take care.

Robert

[Danny Deger]

Has anyone else noticed a tendency for FSS briefers to give you a "stay on
the ground" weather briefing for isolated thunderstorms? 90% of the time on
a summer day in Texas there are some storms. Usually easy to see and avoid.
But I have in the past had a controller that obviously didn't want me to
fly. The worst case was a VFR flight between Houston and Austin with a
single cell between the two cities. All the controller would tell me about
was how bad the weather in the cell was. He refused to provide me with any
weather information outside of the cell. I ended by hanging up and calling
back. The next briefer told me about the very good weather outside of the
single cell and I had a good flight. This is only the worst of my
experiences with briefers and thunderstorms.

Anyone else had a similar issue with a briefer not doing his job because
he/she thought you shouldn't fly that day.

Danny Deger

[Kevin& Donna Sanders, M.D.]

Yes they did that Thursday and all we had was a little stuff along the coast
of NC. He advised against VFR flight several times

Kevin



"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...
> Has anyone else noticed a tendency for FSS briefers to give you a "stay on
> the ground" weather briefing for isolated thunderstorms? 90% of the time
> on a summer day in Texas there are some storms. Usually easy to see and
> avoid. But I have in the past had a controller that obviously didn't want
> me to fly. The worst case was a VFR flight between Houston and Austin
> with a single cell between the two cities. All the controller would tell
> me about was how bad the weather in the cell was. He refused to provide
> me with any weather information outside of the cell. I ended by hanging
> up and calling back. The next briefer told me about the very good weather
> outside of the single cell and I had a good flight. This is only the
> worst of my experiences with briefers and thunderstorms.
>
> Anyone else had a similar issue with a briefer not doing his job because
> he/she thought you shouldn't fly that day.
>
> Danny Deger

[Danny Deger]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On May 12, 4:34 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
>> Has anyone else noticed a tendency for FSS briefers to give you a "stay
>> on
>> the ground" weather briefing for isolated thunderstorms? 90% of the time
>> on
>> a summer day in Texas there are some storms. Usually easy to see and
>> avoid.
>> But I have in the past had a controller that obviously didn't want me to
>> fly. The worst case was a VFR flight between Houston and Austin with a
>> single cell between the two cities. All the controller would tell me
>> about
>> was how bad the weather in the cell was. He refused to provide me with
>> any
>> weather information outside of the cell. I ended by hanging up and
>> calling
>> back. The next briefer told me about the very good weather outside of
>> the
>> single cell and I had a good flight. This is only the worst of my
>> experiences with briefers and thunderstorms.
>>
>> Anyone else had a similar issue with a briefer not doing his job because
>> he/she thought you shouldn't fly that day.
>>
>> Danny Deger
>
> You just need to be direct. "Do you not have weather outside of the
> cell or are you refusing to give me weather outside of the cell".
>

Good point. This was the only time I actually gave up on a briefer and
called back to get another one.

One thing I don't understand is when I got my instrument rating and started
to go IFR, the briefers didn't have any trouble with thunderstorms. For
some reason they would chug right along with an IFR briefing with isolated
t-storms in the area.

I recall one time trying to get from middle Wisconsin to Texas about the
time the weather channel was new. The briefer was giving me doom an gloom
about a line of thunderstorms. It was great VFR where I was and iI nformed
him I was willing to deviate to get around the line. He would not give me
any information on how to get around the line. The weather channel poped up
the radar picture on a TV I was watching and I could see the line was very
short and a deviation less than 100 miles would get me around. When I asked
the controller his opinion on the diviation he replied, "Where did you see
that?"

I replied, "The Weather Channel"

His response was a very huffy, "We don't use the weather channel around
here."

But after I informed him I was taking off and I was going around the line,
he ended up giving me a decent briefing.

I am getting back into flying today, but I assume in todays world briefers
are used to pilots having a radar image. Now you get to see for yourself
what the situation with the storms is.

On a tact other than thunderstorms, has anyone ever told a briefer that 1
mile visibility and clear of clouds is VFR in uncontrolled airspace. I have
had to inform briefers more than once to this fact before they would
continue the VFR briefing.

Danny Deger

> -Robert
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 13 May 2007 20:39:45 -0500, "Danny Deger"
> wrote in
>:

>What is with these guys?

It's a CYA thing. They want to get on the tape as advising you
against VFR flight (probably company policy, although it was done
before the LocMart FSS privatization) in the event of a mishap.

[Danny Deger]

"Luke Skywalker" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On May 12, 10:46 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Danny Deger
>>
>>
>>
> Danny.
>
> A minor nit..really minor. I always refer to the folks who give the
> briefing as "Briefers". Not controllers.
>
> Controllers...they have the ability to issue
> instructions...Briefers...not so much.
>

Not a nit really. They are briefers. I had a "typo"

Danny Deger

> take care.
>
> Robert
>
>

[Danny Deger]

"Kevin& Donna Sanders, M.D." > wrote in message
...
> Yes they did that Thursday and all we had was a little stuff along the
> coast of NC. He advised against VFR flight several times
>

Thanks for the input. What is with these guys? Someone needs to tell them
it is NOT hard to stay out of isolated thunderstorms. I will abmit more
than once I have told them I was IFR just to get a decent briefing out of
them. For some reason the briefers seem to think if IFR thunderstorms are
OK.

Danny Deger

[Bob Martin]

Kevin& Donna Sanders, M.D. wrote:
> Yes they did that Thursday and all we had was a little stuff along the coast
> of NC. He advised against VFR flight several times
>
> Kevin
>


As part of my checkride for the private ticket, I had to get a briefing as if I was flying
XC to this little airfield in Florida. The weather down there was bad (heavy rain, 1/2 mi
visibility) and the briefer kept saying "you can't fly down there." It took me three or
four minutes to get it through his head that I wasn't _actually_ going to fly there, I
only needed to get the briefing as part of showing the examiner I knew how to plan such
things.

I wonder what they would have said about our flying Sunday afternoon? We went to a little
fly-in at a private strip about 10 min away. Coming back, we had to stop for gas, and
there were various little scattered popcorn showers all around the area. We dodged around
a couple of them coming home.

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:22:06 -0400, Bob Martin >
wrote in >:

>the briefer kept saying "you can't fly down there."

The way I see it, it is the FSS briefer's role to provide information
and deal with flight plans. The briefer is not a Dispatcher, so it
would seem that the sort of admonish you received is inappropriate.

If they want to start having input about what you can and can't do,
then they can share in the responsibility of the airman's flight
planning for those flights for which they do not tell airmen what they
can't do, otherwise the should limit such statements to professional
opinions or suggestions, after all briefer's have no authority to
approve or deny aircraft operations.

Is that an unreasonable point of view?

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Larry Dighera > posted:

> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:22:06 -0400, Bob Martin >
> wrote in >:
>
>> the briefer kept saying "you can't fly down there."
>
> The way I see it, it is the FSS briefer's role to provide information
> and deal with flight plans. The briefer is not a Dispatcher, so it
> would seem that the sort of admonish you received is inappropriate.
>
> If they want to start having input about what you can and can't do,
> then they can share in the responsibility of the airman's flight
> planning for those flights for which they do not tell airmen what they
> can't do, otherwise the should limit such statements to professional
> opinions or suggestions, after all briefer's have no authority to
> approve or deny aircraft operations.
>
> Is that an unreasonable point of view?
>
I think that is quite reasonable as a standard for professional practice.

However, I don't quite understand what one would have such a discussion in
the first place. When I call WXBrief, I ask only about the conditions that
are of interest to me. I do not disclose any other information regarding
my intentions. Though I have never been asked for the details of the
flight unless I was filing a flight plan, if I was asked and as a result
was given that kind of response, I would tell the briefer that I didn't
ask his/her opinion, and that I just want the weather information. If s/he
chose not to provide that information, I'd ask for his/her supervisor and
carry on from there.

Neil

[texasflyer]

Here in the middle of Texas, you can't swing a dead cat around by its
tail without hitting an isolated thunderstorm in the springtime. The
little ones are easy enough to go around them. The big ones are
frightening enough to be self evident to stay the hell away from them
as far as you can get.

You should be fortunate you actually got to speak to a briefer at all.
Everyone around here has just given up completely on them after
waiting on hold too long, too many times.

We've got WiFi Internet all over our airport so I can get my WX data
online before flying, my favorite site is

http://www.usairnet.com

Click on the aviation forecast link on the right site of the home
page. It lets you select by state and city, and uses the raw data
straight from the National Weather Service, but formats it into really
nice easy to read color charts for pilots.