looking for a video

[mike regish]

I saw a video some time back that was 3 or 4 WWII fighters skimming their
wheels along some glassy smooth water at about 300 knots in formation. I've
looked all over but can't find it anywhere.

Any help greatly appreciated.

mike

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"mike regish" > wrote in message
...
>I saw a video some time back that was 3 or 4 WWII fighters skimming their
>wheels along some glassy smooth water at about 300 knots in formation. I've
>looked all over but can't find it anywhere.
>
> Any help greatly appreciated.
>
> mike

I think this is what you are after.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhUugWO-_AA

Crash Lander

[Bob Moore]

mike regish wrote
> I saw a video some time back that was 3 or 4 WWII fighters skimming
> their wheels along some glassy smooth water at about 300 knots in
> formation. I've looked all over but can't find it anywhere.

Well Mike.....they wern't "fighters", but just plain'ole T-6s, and I
can assure that they weren't doing 300 kts. :-)

Try here: or any Google for T-6 Water Skiing

http://warbirdcentral.magnify.net/item/B08GDRGVJNMW9P5Y

Bob Moore

[john smith[_2_]]

In article 8>,
Bob Moore > wrote:

> mike regish wrote
> > I saw a video some time back that was 3 or 4 WWII fighters skimming
> > their wheels along some glassy smooth water at about 300 knots in
> > formation. I've looked all over but can't find it anywhere.
>
> Well Mike.....they wern't "fighters", but just plain'ole T-6s, and I
> can assure that they weren't doing 300 kts. :-)
>
> Try here: or any Google for T-6 Water Skiing
>
> http://warbirdcentral.magnify.net/item/B08GDRGVJNMW9P5Y

Might be thinking of the video of the Mirage's with background the music.

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

"mike regish" > wrote in message
...
>I saw a video some time back that was 3 or 4 WWII fighters skimming their
>wheels along some glassy smooth water at about 300 knots in formation. I've
>looked all over but can't find it anywhere.
>
> Any help greatly appreciated.
>
> mike

This would be The Flying Lions T6 Team from South Africa. I have a friend in
the South African Air Force (Gen Des Barker) who knows one of the pilots
(Scully Levin) quite well.
Des had great sport sending out messages to all of his friends asking if we
thought the stunt was real.
I'll tell you one thing about the stunt. You don't want to have a brake
failure or have the engine cough while you're doing it . THAT could get
expensive!!:-))
Dudley Henriques

[Newps]

Dudley Henriques wrote:


> I'll tell you one thing about the stunt. You don't want to have a brake
> failure



The cub guys do this all the time. It is irrelevant if the wheels are
turning or not, some will, some won't. Depends on the size of the tire.

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>
>
>> I'll tell you one thing about the stunt. You don't want to have a brake
>> failure
>
>
>
> The cub guys do this all the time. It is irrelevant if the wheels are
> turning or not, some will, some won't. Depends on the size of the tire.

I told Des I wouldn't do this on a bet. If the engine even sputters and that
tire digs in, it's all over but the shouting. But I agree with you that this
stunt is old hat really. The bush guys are familiar with it and as you say,
there are pilots doing it now and have done it before.
I just wouldn't have been one of them. :-)
Dudley Henriques

[mike regish]

That's the one.

Thanks a ton.

mike

"Crash Lander" > wrote in message
...
> "mike regish" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I saw a video some time back that was 3 or 4 WWII fighters skimming their
>>wheels along some glassy smooth water at about 300 knots in formation.
>>I've looked all over but can't find it anywhere.
>>
>> Any help greatly appreciated.
>>
>> mike
>
> I think this is what you are after.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhUugWO-_AA
>
> Crash Lander
>

[Newps]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>
>>Dudley Henriques wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'll tell you one thing about the stunt. You don't want to have a brake
>>>failure
>>
>>
>>
>>The cub guys do this all the time. It is irrelevant if the wheels are
>>turning or not, some will, some won't. Depends on the size of the tire.
>
>
> I told Des I wouldn't do this on a bet. If the engine even sputters and that
> tire digs in, it's all over but the shouting. But I agree with you that this
> stunt is old hat really. The bush guys are familiar with it and as you say,
> there are pilots doing it now and have done it before.
> I just wouldn't have been one of them. :-)

Y ou just have to find the speed that your plane needs to stay above on
plane. In my friends cub he needs about 35 mph groundspeed. Anything
above that and it's like landing on pavement. Nothing happens until
plane slows below the necessary speed, it may or may not flip over, but
it will stop prety quick. You cannot dig in a tire, it either
hydroplanes or it doesn't.

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..


>You cannot dig in a tire, it either hydroplanes or it doesn't.

No problem if the aircraft is stabilized, but if the engine even coughs, all
the powers in heaven wouldn't keep a T6 planed on the wheels.
Bottom line is that this is a great stunt, IF everything runs perfectly up
front while the bird is planed on the tires. But the risk as far as I would
be concerned anyway, far exceeds the gain. No matter how you cut this one
down to size and analyze it out, it's a damn risky stunt that has you
putting all your eggs on the razor edge of a crash, and if you DID put a T6
in the water with the gear down at the speed necessary to plane the
airplane, you would be in for one serious hurt :-)
Dudley Henriques

[Jose]

> You cannot dig in a tire, it either hydroplanes or it doesn't.

It can hit a wave.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

"Jose" > wrote in message
...
>> You cannot dig in a tire, it either hydroplanes or it doesn't.
>
> It can hit a wave.

Personally, I see all kinds of bad Karma associated with this stunt.
If one is to consider just the predictable outcome when performing it, the
downside would absolutely have to take in the water surface condition ALL
THROUGH the ski run as well as the engine remaining stable ALL THROUGH the
run,
It's just something I wouldn't recommend doing or would ever attempt myself.
As Erwin Schrodinger once said so aptly, " This is something I'd really
rather not take a superposition on" :-)
Dudley Henriques

[Newps]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>
>
>>You cannot dig in a tire, it either hydroplanes or it doesn't.
>
>
> No problem if the aircraft is stabilized, but if the engine even coughs, all
> the powers in heaven wouldn't keep a T6 planed on the wheels.
>


I disagree. The T6 will require a certain speed to stay on plane. If
you are well above that speed a cough in the engine won't suddenly slow
you down below that speed. There's not that much drag in the water.
You will probably suck the seat right up your ass however.

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> "Newps" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>
>>
>>>You cannot dig in a tire, it either hydroplanes or it doesn't.
>>
>>
>> No problem if the aircraft is stabilized, but if the engine even coughs,
>> all the powers in heaven wouldn't keep a T6 planed on the wheels.
>>
>
>
> I disagree. The T6 will require a certain speed to stay on plane. If you
> are well above that speed a cough in the engine won't suddenly slow you
> down below that speed. There's not that much drag in the water. You will
> probably suck the seat right up your ass however.

I respect your right to disagree :-)
Dudley Henriques

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>> No problem if the aircraft is stabilized, but if the engine even coughs,
>> all the powers in heaven wouldn't keep a T6 planed on the wheels.
>>
>
>
> I disagree. The T6 will require a certain speed to stay on plane. If you
> are well above that speed a cough in the engine won't suddenly slow you
> down below that speed. There's not that much drag in the water. You will
> probably suck the seat right up your ass however.

Oh, now THERE'S a great mental image!


--
Matt Barrow
Performace Homes, LLC.
Colorado Springs, CO

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>>
>> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>>> "Newps" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You cannot dig in a tire, it either hydroplanes or it doesn't.
>>>
>>>
>>> No problem if the aircraft is stabilized, but if the engine even coughs,
>>> all the powers in heaven wouldn't keep a T6 planed on the wheels.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I disagree. The T6 will require a certain speed to stay on plane. If
>> you are well above that speed a cough in the engine won't suddenly slow
>> you down below that speed. There's not that much drag in the water. You
>> will probably suck the seat right up your ass however.
>
> I respect your right to disagree :-)

But will you respect it in the morning?

--
Matt Barrow
Performace Homes, LLC.
Colorado Springs, CO

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Newps" > wrote in message
>> . ..

>> I respect your right to disagree :-)
>
> But will you respect it in the morning?

We used T6's quite often in my operation and I've got a ton of time in the
airplane. It's not the cleanest thing in town aerodynamically by a long shot
:-)) Although it's obviously true you can put the tires of a T6 ( and other
airplanes as well from what I hear) in the water as these guys are doing, no
matter what speed you would be using to plane the tires, if you had an
engine problem during the run with the tires in the water, I'd be willing to
bet the ranch the aircraft would settle in so fast due to parasite drag that
you would cartwheel it in for sure.
The T6 is a drag queen and slows down REAL fast when the power comes back.
Of course this is just my personal read on this stunt. The guys doing it are
top sticks and I'm sure know the risks involved. If I'm not mistaken, one of
them, Scully Levin, is a 20K plus driver with literally a ton of experience
flying just about anything with wings on it.
Pilots like this do these things knowing full well what might happen. They
love this kind of stuff :-)) I've spent my entire life around people like
this. They're some of the finest and most capable pilots you would find on
the planet.
The bottom line on doing things like this stunt is that you do it because
you like the work.
The chance that the work can bite you in the ass someday is simply part of
the accepted risk.
Dudley Henriques

[Matt Whiting]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Newps" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>
>>> I respect your right to disagree :-)
>> But will you respect it in the morning?
>
> We used T6's quite often in my operation and I've got a ton of time in the
> airplane. It's not the cleanest thing in town aerodynamically by a long shot
> :-)) Although it's obviously true you can put the tires of a T6 ( and other
> airplanes as well from what I hear) in the water as these guys are doing, no
> matter what speed you would be using to plane the tires, if you had an
> engine problem during the run with the tires in the water, I'd be willing to
> bet the ranch the aircraft would settle in so fast due to parasite drag that
> you would cartwheel it in for sure.
> The T6 is a drag queen and slows down REAL fast when the power comes back.
> Of course this is just my personal read on this stunt. The guys doing it are
> top sticks and I'm sure know the risks involved. If I'm not mistaken, one of
> them, Scully Levin, is a 20K plus driver with literally a ton of experience
> flying just about anything with wings on it.

I suspect it also depends a fair bit on what the pitch change is with
power change in the T6. I'm assuming as with most conventional
airplanes that the loss of propwash on the tail would likely also cause
a nearly immediate pitch down which only complicates the problem with
speed loss due to the high drag of the airplane.

Matt

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...


> I suspect it also depends a fair bit on what the pitch change is with
> power change in the T6. I'm assuming as with most conventional airplanes
> that the loss of propwash on the tail would likely also cause a nearly
> immediate pitch down which only complicates the problem with speed loss
> due to the high drag of the airplane.
>
> Matt

I would look for an immediate mushdown into the water at some downward angle
determined by the exact speed and angle of attack involved as the engine
quit followed almost immediately behind that with a nose down pitch rate,
both of which I would imagine would ruin your entire day.
All these "ragged edge" stunts are fine as long as every single facet of the
aerodynamics remains in balance. This one definitely goes in my bag of
"Russian roulette" tricks to be avoided.
It's like anything else associated with down low tricks, stunts, and acro.
The lower you get, the narrower the error margin becomes. You can be sharp
as a tack on Saturday afternoon at 150 feet and get away with a super slow
roll on takeoff. You can also be the same "sharp as a tack" at 75 feet on
Sunday morning doing the same thing again and kill yourself because you
weren't RAZOR SHARP as a tack instead.
There is always the chance of an engine sputtering or failing while engaged
in this type of work. Most pilots including me give themselves just a little
bit of room in case something goes wrong up front. Those who take the
airplane into an area where they don't have that little bit of room to
wiggle are now completely dependent on the engine NOT failing them during
the time the stunt is running.
It's a dangerous game, and many have died playing it.
Dudley Henriques

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Dudley Henriques"> wrote

> There is always the chance of an engine sputtering or failing while
> engaged in this type of work. Most pilots including me give themselves
> just a little bit of room in case something goes wrong up front. Those who
> take the airplane into an area where they don't have that little bit of
> room to wiggle are now completely dependent on the engine NOT failing them
> during the time the stunt is running.
> It's a dangerous game, and many have died playing it.

About how fast do you suppose they are going, and how much above stall are
they?

I would think that if they were a comfortable margin above stall, they might
be able to pull quickly enough (that is the big "if" I guess) to get a
"zoom" up off the water; at least a few dozen feet.

Of course, if it is more than a quick stutter, they will be right back where
they started, doing a cartwheel, very soon ... anyway. :-(

At that speed, I know water is mighty hard, but I'll guess that it very well
could be a survivable impact, as long as you did not lose consciousness, and
were able to get out fairly quickly. The plane would sure be a mess,
though.

I'm prob'ly with you. More than an acceptable risk. It sure looks like a
good rush, though! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Next time I talk to Des Barker in South Africa I'll ask him to ask Levin
what the numbers are for this stunt. I'm curious myself.
Dudley Henriques


"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques"> wrote
>
>> There is always the chance of an engine sputtering or failing while
>> engaged in this type of work. Most pilots including me give themselves
>> just a little bit of room in case something goes wrong up front. Those
>> who take the airplane into an area where they don't have that little bit
>> of room to wiggle are now completely dependent on the engine NOT failing
>> them during the time the stunt is running.
>> It's a dangerous game, and many have died playing it.
>
> About how fast do you suppose they are going, and how much above stall are
> they?
>
> I would think that if they were a comfortable margin above stall, they
> might be able to pull quickly enough (that is the big "if" I guess) to get
> a "zoom" up off the water; at least a few dozen feet.
>
> Of course, if it is more than a quick stutter, they will be right back
> where they started, doing a cartwheel, very soon ... anyway. :-(
>
> At that speed, I know water is mighty hard, but I'll guess that it very
> well could be a survivable impact, as long as you did not lose
> consciousness, and were able to get out fairly quickly. The plane would
> sure be a mess, though.
>
> I'm prob'ly with you. More than an acceptable risk. It sure looks like a
> good rush, though! <g>
> --
> Jim in NC
>