Control Tower without class D

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 15, 7:52 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
> In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled airports
> without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to know this and
> know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D airspace if they are
> not in contact with the tower.
>
> Can anyone confirm this?
>
> Danny Deger

That's what we had at Mather, California before the tower had ATIS
weather.

-Robert

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...
>
> In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled
> airports without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to know
> this and know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D airspace
> if they are not in contact with the tower.
>
> Can anyone confirm this?
>

There's one at FLD every summer.

[[email protected]]

Yes. Read 91.126(d) in CFR14 (used to be FAR's). It talks about
operating in vicinity of an airport in class G airspace. Scroll down
to (d) and it talks about communication with control towers.

A couple of examples are Fort Worth Spinks (KFWS) and Grand Prairie
(KGPM) on the south side of Dallas. There are other examples out
there.

You can view the sectional charts here http://skyvector.com/

And below is the relevant text from 14 CFR 91.126(d)

************************************************** ***************

§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G
airspace.
top

(d) Communications with control towers. Unless otherwise authorized or
required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft to, from, through,
or on an airport having an operational control tower unless two-way
radio communications are maintained between that aircraft and the
control tower. Communications must be established prior to 4 nautical
miles from the airport, up to and including 2,500 feet AGL. However,
if the aircraft radio fails in flight, the pilot in command may
operate that aircraft and land if weather conditions are at or above
basic VFR weather minimums, visual contact with the tower is
maintained, and a clearance to land is received. If the aircraft radio
fails while in flight under IFR, the pilot must comply with §91.185.

[Doc. No. 24458, 56 FR 65658, Dec. 17, 1991, as amended by Amdt. 91-
239, 59 FR 11693, Mar. 11, 1994; Amdt. 91-282, 69 FR 44880, July 27,
2004]

************************************************** *************************

On May 15, 9:52 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
> In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled airports
> without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to know this and
> know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D airspace if they are
> not in contact with the tower.
>
> Can anyone confirm this?
>
> Danny Deger

[Newps]

Class G towers are temporary in nature. When we set up fire towers
every summer they are most often in class G. I wouldn't worry about the
rules as we controllers are really lax at places like this. There are
no tapes and the level of traffic is low. The runway separation rules
are just a guideline. We're not sending someone around because we're a
mere 500 feet short on the separation. You're only going to know about
class G towers by notam.




Danny Deger wrote:

> In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled
> airports without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to
> know this and know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D
> airspace if they are not in contact with the tower.
>
> Can anyone confirm this?
>
> Danny Deger

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 15, 8:39 am, Newps > wrote:
> Class G towers are temporary in nature. When we set up fire towers
> every summer they are most often in class G. I wouldn't worry about the
> rules as we controllers are really lax at places like this. There are
> no tapes and the level of traffic is low. The runway separation rules
> are just a guideline. We're not sending someone around because we're a
> mere 500 feet short on the separation. You're only going to know about
> class G towers by notam.
>
>
>
> Danny Deger wrote:
> > In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled
> > airports without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to
> > know this and know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D
> > airspace if they are not in contact with the tower.
>
> > Can anyone confirm this?
>
> > Danny Deger- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

As I recall the class G tower at MHR lived for at least 6 months
before it became class D. It did appear on the sectional as I recall.

-Robert

[[email protected]]

In an earlier post I gave two examples of Class G towers that are
permanent in nature; FWS and GPM.

Class G control towers are NOT all temporary.


On May 15, 10:39 am, Newps > wrote:
> Class G towers are temporary in nature. When we set up fire towers
> every summer they are most often in class G. I wouldn't worry about the
> rules as we controllers are really lax at places like this. There are
> no tapes and the level of traffic is low. The runway separation rules
> are just a guideline. We're not sending someone around because we're a
> mere 500 feet short on the separation. You're only going to know about
> class G towers by notam.
>
> Danny Deger wrote:
> > In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled
> > airports without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to
> > know this and know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D
> > airspace if they are not in contact with the tower.
>
> > Can anyone confirm this?
>
> > Danny Deger

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> Class G towers are temporary in nature. When we set up fire towers every
> summer they are most often in class G.

Towers in a Class E surface area are temporary in nature. If the tower is
to be permanent the airspace will eventually become Class D.

Towers in Class G airspace may be temporary or permanent.


>
> I wouldn't worry about the rules as we controllers are really lax at
> places like this. There are no tapes and the level of traffic is low.
> The runway separation rules are just a guideline. We're not sending
> someone around because we're a mere 500 feet short on the separation.
> You're only going to know about class G towers by notam.
>


The runway separation rules are as applicable at towers in Class G airspace
as they are anywhere else.

[Jose]

> Does anyone know why the FAA doesn't just put class D airspace around these airports?

It would change the VFR minima?

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Danny Deger wrote:
>In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled airports
>without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to know this and
>know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D airspace if they are
>not in contact with the tower.
>
>Can anyone confirm this?
>

I've seen this several times at airports with newly commissioned towers.
Apparently, the FAA can open a tower any old time, but it takes months to
create class D airspace. Airspace changes have to be published in the
federal register and go through the rulemaking process.

The last two towers I remember being commissioned, it was about 6 months
before the class D airspace was depicted on the charts.

The FAA assumes that you would automatically know about a tower without
class D airspace depicted because you're supposed to get all available
information before a flight. This would include the NOTAM for the tower,
which will be there until the charts reflect it.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200705/1

[Danny Deger]

In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled airports
without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to know this and
know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D airspace if they are
not in contact with the tower.

Can anyone confirm this?

Danny Deger

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...
>
> Is the difference the class G airports don't have a precision approach.
> If I recall the old Control Zones were put in place at airports with
> precision approaches.
>

No. There were airports without control zones that had ILSs and airports
with control zones that did not have ILSs.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Danny Deger" > wrote in message
...
>
> Does anyone know why the FAA doesn't just put class D airspace around
> these airports?
>

Probably because it would have an adverse effect on operations.
Aeroplanner.com shows 34 helicopters based at GPM. Put a Class D surface
area there and there'd be a lot of requests for SVFR whenever the weather
was below VFR minima. SVFR aircraft have to be separated from each other
and from IFR aircraft.


>
> This would make for a nice blue dash line on the map to
> show the point the local tower must be contacted.
>

You're free to draw a nice blue dash circle around these airports on your
sectional.

[Ron Natalie]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "Danny Deger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Is the difference the class G airports don't have a precision approach.
>> If I recall the old Control Zones were put in place at airports with
>> precision approaches.
>>
>
> No. There were airports without control zones that had ILSs and airports
> with control zones that did not have ILSs.
>
>
Generally, it was an instrument approach and someone (now something) on
the ground to report the weather. But there were exceptions to that
even.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
> Generally, it was an instrument approach and someone (now something) on
> the ground to report the weather. But there were exceptions to that
> even.
>

No exceptions to the weather reporting requirement.

[Danny Deger]

> wrote in message
oups.com...

>Yes. Read 91.126(d) in CFR14 (used to be FAR's). It talks about
>operating in vicinity of an airport in class G airspace. Scroll down
>to (d) and it talks about communication with control towers.

>A couple of examples are Fort Worth Spinks (KFWS) and Grand Prairie
>(KGPM) on the south side of Dallas. There are other examples out
>there.

Does anyone know why the FAA doesn't just put class D airspace around these
airports? This would make for a nice blue dash line on the map to show the
point the local tower must be contacted.

Danny Deger

You can view the sectional charts here http://skyvector.com/

And below is the relevant text from 14 CFR 91.126(d)

************************************************** ***************

§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G
airspace.
top

(d) Communications with control towers. Unless otherwise authorized or
required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft to, from, through,
or on an airport having an operational control tower unless two-way
radio communications are maintained between that aircraft and the
control tower. Communications must be established prior to 4 nautical
miles from the airport, up to and including 2,500 feet AGL. However,
if the aircraft radio fails in flight, the pilot in command may
operate that aircraft and land if weather conditions are at or above
basic VFR weather minimums, visual contact with the tower is
maintained, and a clearance to land is received. If the aircraft radio
fails while in flight under IFR, the pilot must comply with §91.185.

[Doc. No. 24458, 56 FR 65658, Dec. 17, 1991, as amended by Amdt. 91-
239, 59 FR 11693, Mar. 11, 1994; Amdt. 91-282, 69 FR 44880, July 27,
2004]

************************************************** *************************

On May 15, 9:52 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
> In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled
> airports
> without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to know this and
> know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D airspace if they
> are
> not in contact with the tower.
>
> Can anyone confirm this?
>
> Danny Deger

[Danny Deger]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Class G towers are temporary in nature. When we set up fire towers every
>> summer they are most often in class G.
>
> Towers in a Class E surface area are temporary in nature. If the tower is
> to be permanent the airspace will eventually become Class D.
>
> Towers in Class G airspace may be temporary or permanent.
>

Is the difference the class G airports don't have a precision approach. If
I recall the old Control Zones were put in place at airports with precision
approaches.

Danny Deger

>
>>
>> I wouldn't worry about the rules as we controllers are really lax at
>> places like this. There are no tapes and the level of traffic is low.
>> The runway separation rules are just a guideline. We're not sending
>> someone around because we're a mere 500 feet short on the separation.
>> You're only going to know about class G towers by notam.
>>
>
>
> The runway separation rules are as applicable at towers in Class G
> airspace as they are anywhere else.
>

[WAYNE]

On May 15, 10:40 am, wrote:
> Yes. Read 91.126(d) in CFR14 (used to be FAR's). It talks about
> operating in vicinity of an airport in class G airspace. Scroll down
> to (d) and it talks about communication with control towers.
>
> A couple of examples are Fort Worth Spinks (KFWS) and Grand Prairie
> (KGPM) on the south side of Dallas. There are other examples out
> there.
>
> You can view the sectional charts herehttp://skyvector.com/
>
> And below is the relevant text from 14 CFR 91.126(d)
>
> ************************************************** ***************
>
> § 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G
> airspace.
> top
>
> (d) Communications with control towers. Unless otherwise authorized or
> required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft to, from, through,
> or on an airport having an operational control tower unless two-way
> radio communications are maintained between that aircraft and the
> control tower. Communications must be established prior to 4 nautical
> miles from the airport, up to and including 2,500 feet AGL. However,
> if the aircraft radio fails in flight, the pilot in command may
> operate that aircraft and land if weather conditions are at or above
> basic VFR weather minimums, visual contact with the tower is
> maintained, and a clearance to land is received. If the aircraft radio
> fails while in flight under IFR, the pilot must comply with §91.185.
>
> [Doc. No. 24458, 56 FR 65658, Dec. 17, 1991, as amended by Amdt. 91-
> 239, 59 FR 11693, Mar. 11, 1994; Amdt. 91-282, 69 FR 44880, July 27,
> 2004]
>
> ************************************************** *************************
>
> On May 15, 9:52 pm, "Danny Deger" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > In another thread, I have just read that there might be controlled airports
> > without having class D airspace, and pilots are supposed to know this and
> > know to contact the tower and stay of their non-class D airspace if they are
> > not in contact with the tower.
>
> > Can anyone confirm this?
>
> > Danny Deger- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -