Flight Wing Size Changes?

[Charles Talleyrand]

Did the change from F-14s to F-18s increase or decrease the total
number of planes per ship? Overly simple math suggests that the
amount of room needed to hold 22 F-14s could also hold 30 F-18s.

If the number of planes did not increase, what happened to the extra
space?

-Curious
-Charles Talleyrand


F-18a Length: 17.10 m
F-18a Wing Span: 9.3 m folded
Area of bounding box: 159 sq m

F-14 Length: 18.6 meters
F-14 Wingspan: 11.4 meters swept
Area of bounding box: 211 sq m

[Fred J. McCall]

Charles Talleyrand > wrote:

:Did the change from F-14s to F-18s increase or decrease the total
:number of planes per ship? Overly simple math suggests that the
:amount of room needed to hold 22 F-14s could also hold 30 F-18s.
:
:If the number of planes did not increase, what happened to the extra
:space?
:
:-Curious
:-Charles Talleyrand
:
:
:F-18a Length: 17.10 m
:F-18a Wing Span: 9.3 m folded
:Area of bounding box: 159 sq m
:
:F-14 Length: 18.6 meters
:F-14 Wingspan: 11.4 meters swept
:Area of bounding box: 211 sq m

You're looking at the wrong airplanes. The Navy only operates a
handful of F/A-18A+ aircraft. The remainder of the 'legacy' Hornets
are C/D aircraft. The F-14 aircraft were replaced by F/A-18E/F
aircraft, which are physically about the same size as an F-14. There
is no real 'extra space'.

F-18E/F Length: 18.31 meters
F-18E/F Wing Span: 9.32 meters folded


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

[Charles Talleyrand]

On May 20, 12:23 am, Fred J. McCall > wrote:
> Charles Talleyrand > wrote:
>
> :Did the change from F-14s to F-18s increase or decrease the total
> :number of planes per ship? Overly simple math suggests that the
> :amount of room needed to hold 22 F-14s could also hold 30 F-18s.
> :
> :If the number of planes did not increase, what happened to the extra
> :space?
> :
> :-Curious
> :-Charles Talleyrand
> :
> :
> :F-18a Length: 17.10 m
> :F-18a Wing Span: 9.3 m folded
> :Area of bounding box: 159 sq m
> :
> :F-14 Length: 18.6 meters
> :F-14 Wingspan: 11.4 meters swept
> :Area of bounding box: 211 sq m
>
> You're looking at the wrong airplanes. The Navy only operates a
> handful of F/A-18A+ aircraft. The remainder of the 'legacy' Hornets
> are C/D aircraft. The F-14 aircraft were replaced by F/A-18E/F
> aircraft, which are physically about the same size as an F-14. There
> is no real 'extra space'.
>
> F-18E/F Length: 18.31 meters
> F-18E/F Wing Span: 9.32 meters folded
>

I thought the F-14s were replaced by the F-18a, and the F-18e came
along much later. I'm willing to be corrected.

Using the F-18e data, the bounding box uses 171 sq meters, which is
still only 80% of the space needed by an F-14. Therefore one might
imagine though this simplistic analysis that 5 F-18s used as much
space as 4 F-14s.

Suppose we were only concerned about wingspan, and did not care about
length. This might be a model of a flightline. We still might guess
that 5 F-18s fit into the space needed by 4 F-14s, since the F-18
folded wingspan is 80% that of the F-14s.

So what happened to that extra space on the carrier?

-Still Curious
-Charles Talleyrand

[Fred J. McCall]

Charles Talleyrand > wrote:

:On May 20, 12:23 am, Fred J. McCall > wrote:
:> Charles Talleyrand > wrote:
:>
:> :Did the change from F-14s to F-18s increase or decrease the total
:> :number of planes per ship? Overly simple math suggests that the
:> :amount of room needed to hold 22 F-14s could also hold 30 F-18s.
:> :
:> :If the number of planes did not increase, what happened to the extra
:> :space?
:> :
:> :-Curious
:> :-Charles Talleyrand
:> :
:> :
:> :F-18a Length: 17.10 m
:> :F-18a Wing Span: 9.3 m folded
:> :Area of bounding box: 159 sq m
:> :
:> :F-14 Length: 18.6 meters
:> :F-14 Wingspan: 11.4 meters swept
:> :Area of bounding box: 211 sq m
:>
:> You're looking at the wrong airplanes. The Navy only operates a
:> handful of F/A-18A+ aircraft. The remainder of the 'legacy' Hornets
:> are C/D aircraft. The F-14 aircraft were replaced by F/A-18E/F
:> aircraft, which are physically about the same size as an F-14. There
:> is no real 'extra space'.
:>
:> F-18E/F Length: 18.31 meters
:> F-18E/F Wing Span: 9.32 meters folded
:>
:
:I thought the F-14s were replaced by the F-18a, and the F-18e came
:along much later. I'm willing to be corrected.
:

Consider yourself corrected.

:
:Using the F-18e data, the bounding box uses 171 sq meters, which is
:still only 80% of the space needed by an F-14. Therefore one might
:imagine though this simplistic analysis that 5 F-18s used as much
:space as 4 F-14s.
:
:Suppose we were only concerned about wingspan, and did not care about
:length. This might be a model of a flightline. We still might guess
:that 5 F-18s fit into the space needed by 4 F-14s, since the F-18
:folded wingspan is 80% that of the F-14s.
:
:So what happened to that extra space on the carrier?
:
:-Still Curious
:-Charles Talleyrand

Hint: They didn't used to be able to get all the airplanes in the
hangar deck at the same time.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

[John Carrier]

All carrier aircraft have a calculated deck multiple that reflects the space
the parked aircraft absorbs from the ships total. A cursory google didn't
come up with the hard numbers but the F-18A-D is quite a bit less than an
F-14, the E/F only slightly less.

In an era of miniscule procurement budgets and expensive aircraft, we've
rarely stressed the ship's capacity for aircraft. As to what happened to
the extra space, its still there for the aircraft handler to juggle aircraft
spots, etc. For a look at what it was like in the Vietnam era, follow this
link:

http://navy-matters.beedall.com/images/oriskany.jpg

R / John

"Fred J. McCall" > wrote in message
...
> Charles Talleyrand > wrote:
>
> :On May 20, 12:23 am, Fred J. McCall > wrote:
> :> Charles Talleyrand > wrote:
> :>
> :> :Did the change from F-14s to F-18s increase or decrease the total
> :> :number of planes per ship? Overly simple math suggests that the
> :> :amount of room needed to hold 22 F-14s could also hold 30 F-18s.
> :> :
> :> :If the number of planes did not increase, what happened to the extra
> :> :space?
> :> :
> :> :-Curious
> :> :-Charles Talleyrand
> :> :
> :> :
> :> :F-18a Length: 17.10 m
> :> :F-18a Wing Span: 9.3 m folded
> :> :Area of bounding box: 159 sq m
> :> :
> :> :F-14 Length: 18.6 meters
> :> :F-14 Wingspan: 11.4 meters swept
> :> :Area of bounding box: 211 sq m
> :>
> :> You're looking at the wrong airplanes. The Navy only operates a
> :> handful of F/A-18A+ aircraft. The remainder of the 'legacy' Hornets
> :> are C/D aircraft. The F-14 aircraft were replaced by F/A-18E/F
> :> aircraft, which are physically about the same size as an F-14. There
> :> is no real 'extra space'.
> :>
> :> F-18E/F Length: 18.31 meters
> :> F-18E/F Wing Span: 9.32 meters folded
> :>
> :
> :I thought the F-14s were replaced by the F-18a, and the F-18e came
> :along much later. I'm willing to be corrected.
> :
>
> Consider yourself corrected.
>
> :
> :Using the F-18e data, the bounding box uses 171 sq meters, which is
> :still only 80% of the space needed by an F-14. Therefore one might
> :imagine though this simplistic analysis that 5 F-18s used as much
> :space as 4 F-14s.
> :
> :Suppose we were only concerned about wingspan, and did not care about
> :length. This might be a model of a flightline. We still might guess
> :that 5 F-18s fit into the space needed by 4 F-14s, since the F-18
> :folded wingspan is 80% that of the F-14s.
> :
> :So what happened to that extra space on the carrier?
> :
> :-Still Curious
> :-Charles Talleyrand
>
> Hint: They didn't used to be able to get all the airplanes in the
> hangar deck at the same time.
>
>
> --
> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
> man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
> all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
> --George Bernard Shaw

[Jack Linthicum]

On May 20, 2:37 am, Charles Talleyrand > wrote:

> So what happened to that extra space on the carrier?
>
> -Still Curious
> -Charles Talleyrand

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=21940

Vending machines, The TR made more than half a million bucks on its
2003 voyage from drinks alone and more like $2.6 m from the ship's
store.

[John Carrier]

"Jack Linthicum" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On May 20, 2:37 am, Charles Talleyrand > wrote:
>
>> So what happened to that extra space on the carrier?
>>
>> -Still Curious
>> -Charles Talleyrand
>
> http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=21940
>
> Vending machines, The TR made more than half a million bucks on its
> 2003 voyage from drinks alone and more like $2.6 m from the ship's
> store.

A long way from the coke mess and ready room popcorn machine we had on the
O-boat. Hancock had a truly draconian skipper that had each coke mess mark
every can with an identifying number. Should a can turn up "adrift" the
mess lost its authorization to sell cokes.

R / John

[Fred J. McCall]

"John Carrier" > wrote in a broken top-post, which I
have corrected:

:
:"Fred J. McCall" > wrote in message
.. .
:> Charles Talleyrand > wrote:
:>
:> :On May 20, 12:23 am, Fred J. McCall > wrote:
:> :> Charles Talleyrand > wrote:
:> :>
:> :> :Did the change from F-14s to F-18s increase or decrease the total
:> :> :number of planes per ship? Overly simple math suggests that the
:> :> :amount of room needed to hold 22 F-14s could also hold 30 F-18s.
:> :> :
:> :> :If the number of planes did not increase, what happened to the extra
:> :> :space?
:> :> :
:> :> :-Curious
:> :> :-Charles Talleyrand
:> :> :
:> :> :
:> :> :F-18a Length: 17.10 m
:> :> :F-18a Wing Span: 9.3 m folded
:> :> :Area of bounding box: 159 sq m
:> :> :
:> :> :F-14 Length: 18.6 meters
:> :> :F-14 Wingspan: 11.4 meters swept
:> :> :Area of bounding box: 211 sq m
:> :>
:> :> You're looking at the wrong airplanes. The Navy only operates a
:> :> handful of F/A-18A+ aircraft. The remainder of the 'legacy' Hornets
:> :> are C/D aircraft. The F-14 aircraft were replaced by F/A-18E/F
:> :> aircraft, which are physically about the same size as an F-14. There
:> :> is no real 'extra space'.
:> :>
:> :> F-18E/F Length: 18.31 meters
:> :> F-18E/F Wing Span: 9.32 meters folded
:> :>
:> :
:> :I thought the F-14s were replaced by the F-18a, and the F-18e came
:> :along much later. I'm willing to be corrected.
:> :
:>
:> Consider yourself corrected.
:>
:> :
:> :Using the F-18e data, the bounding box uses 171 sq meters, which is
:> :still only 80% of the space needed by an F-14. Therefore one might
:> :imagine though this simplistic analysis that 5 F-18s used as much
:> :space as 4 F-14s.
:> :
:> :Suppose we were only concerned about wingspan, and did not care about
:> :length. This might be a model of a flightline. We still might guess
:> :that 5 F-18s fit into the space needed by 4 F-14s, since the F-18
:> :folded wingspan is 80% that of the F-14s.
:> :
:> :So what happened to that extra space on the carrier?
:> :
:> :-Still Curious
:> :-Charles Talleyrand
:>
:> Hint: They didn't used to be able to get all the airplanes in the
:> hangar deck at the same time.
:>
:
:All carrier aircraft have a calculated deck multiple that reflects the space
:the parked aircraft absorbs from the ships total. A cursory google didn't
:come up with the hard numbers but the F-18A-D is quite a bit less than an
:F-14, the E/F only slightly less.
:

Just what I said.

:
:In an era of miniscule procurement budgets and expensive aircraft, we've
:rarely stressed the ship's capacity for aircraft. As to what happened to
:the extra space, its still there for the aircraft handler to juggle aircraft
:spots, etc. For a look at what it was like in the Vietnam era, follow this
:link:
:
:http://navy-matters.beedall.com/images/oriskany.jpg
:

Sadly, though, we don't have enough squadrons to bring aircraft
numbers back up to 'wartime levels' if we wanted to.


--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

[Tex Houston]

"John Carrier" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jack Linthicum" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=21940
>>
>> Vending machines, The TR made more than half a million bucks on its
>> 2003 voyage from drinks alone and more like $2.6 m from the ship's
>> store.
>
> A long way from the coke mess and ready room popcorn machine we had on the
> O-boat. Hancock had a truly draconian skipper that had each coke mess
> mark every can with an identifying number. Should a can turn up "adrift"
> the mess lost its authorization to sell cokes.
>
> R / John

Wasn't his name Queeg? (vbg)

Tex Houston

[Greasy Rider[_3_]]

"John Carrier" > wrote in message
...
> A long way from the coke mess and ready room popcorn machine we had on the
> O-boat. Hancock had a truly draconian skipper that had each coke mess
> mark every can with an identifying number. Should a can turn up "adrift"
> the mess lost its authorization to sell cokes.

Was that Capt. Morton from "Mr. Roberts". I wondered what happened to him.

(We got a new Skipper in 1958. He insisted that all the men buy new shoes.
Rumor was his brother in law owned a shoe factory.)

[John Carrier]

Well excuse me. "Bounded box" isn't quite the same as deck multiple,
although I suspect it's a pretty very accurate approximation. I have a good
friend who was a handler and probably can recite the numbers in his sleep.
All I recall is that the A-7 is 1.0 and most other jets are higher numbers
(on the order of 1.2 - 1.4).

R / John