Aviation+Street GPS

[Charles Talleyrand]

Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
and aviation use. I'd like to have turn-by-turn directions and be
able to look up com frequencies.

-Hopeful
-Charles Talleyrand

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Charles Talleyrand > said:
>Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
>and aviation use. I'd like to have turn-by-turn directions and be
>able to look up com frequencies.

There's no such thing as a "reasonable cost" aviation GPS.

That said, I'm pretty happy with my 296, both in the air and on the
ground. I have the optional car kit that gives you a charger cord with a
speaker for spoken turn-by-turn directions, a CD with detail maps, and a
bean-bag mount so that I can throw it on the dash of a rental car after I
arrive at the destination airport.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Flying is not dangerous; crashing is dangerous.

[Newps]

Paul Tomblin wrote:

> In a previous article, Charles Talleyrand > said:
>
>>Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
>>and aviation use. I'd like to have turn-by-turn directions and be
>>able to look up com frequencies.
>
>
> There's no such thing as a "reasonable cost" aviation GPS.
>
> That said, I'm pretty happy with my 296, both in the air and on the
> ground. I have the optional car kit that gives you a charger cord with a
> speaker for spoken turn-by-turn directions, a CD with detail maps, and a
> bean-bag mount so that I can throw it on the dash of a rental car after I
> arrive at the destination airport.


I'll second that. I've used two separate programs on my PDA for
driving, Mapopolis and Pocket Map Navigator, with Mapopolis being much
better. The 296 is every bit as good, I was suprised it was as good as
it is being as it's primary function is aviation. The 296 gets the nod
as the GPS is built in and an all in one unit is simply more stable than
the PDA. I hardly use my PDA anymore.

[Andrew Sarangan]

On May 20, 7:54 pm, Newps > wrote:
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> > In a previous article, Charles Talleyrand > said:
>
> >>Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
> >>and aviation use. I'd like to have turn-by-turn directions and be
> >>able to look up com frequencies.
>
> > There's no such thing as a "reasonable cost" aviation GPS.
>
> > That said, I'm pretty happy with my 296, both in the air and on the
> > ground. I have the optional car kit that gives you a charger cord with a
> > speaker for spoken turn-by-turn directions, a CD with detail maps, and a
> > bean-bag mount so that I can throw it on the dash of a rental car after I
> > arrive at the destination airport.
>
> I'll second that. I've used two separate programs on my PDA for
> driving, Mapopolis and Pocket Map Navigator, with Mapopolis being much
> better. The 296 is every bit as good, I was suprised it was as good as
> it is being as it's primary function is aviation. The 296 gets the nod
> as the GPS is built in and an all in one unit is simply more stable than
> the PDA. I hardly use my PDA anymore.

I would recommend WingX for the aviation software, and Tomtom for the
street software, both running on the pocketpc.

[Charles Talleyrand]

On May 20, 6:15 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> In a previous article, Charles Talleyrand > said:
>
> >Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
> >and aviation use. I'd like to have turn-by-turn directions and be
> >able to look up com frequencies.
>
> There's no such thing as a "reasonable cost" aviation GPS.
>
> That said, I'm pretty happy with my 296, both in the air and on the
> ground. I have the optional car kit that gives you a charger cord with a
> speaker for spoken turn-by-turn directions, a CD with detail maps, and a
> bean-bag mount so that I can throw it on the dash of a rental car after I
> arrive at the destination airport.


It sounds perfect, but the cost is unreasonable. I could afford a
street GPS, and aviation GPS, and have money left over for the price
of a Garmin 296. Is there maybe a lesser cost option?

-Charles

[Newps]

Andrew Sarangan wrote:


>
> I would recommend WingX for the aviation software, and Tomtom for the
> street software, both running on the pocketpc.

I use Wing X also, but not the latest version, the one before that. The
latest is not as good, way too much crap on there.

[Charles Talleyrand]

On May 20, 6:15 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> In a previous article, Charles Talleyrand > said:
>
> >Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
> >and aviation use. I'd like to have turn-by-turn directions and be
> >able to look up com frequencies.
>
> There's no such thing as a "reasonable cost" aviation GPS.
>
> That said, I'm pretty happy with my 296, both in the air and on the
> ground. I have the optional car kit that gives you a charger cord with a
> speaker for spoken turn-by-turn directions, a CD with detail maps, and a
> bean-bag mount so that I can throw it on the dash of a rental car after I
> arrive at the destination airport.


It sounds perfect, but the cost is unreasonable. I could afford a
street GPS, and aviation GPS, and have money left over for the price
of a Garmin 296. Is there maybe a lesser cost option?

-Charles

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

>On May 20, 6:15 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>> In a previous article, Charles Talleyrand > said:
>>
>> >Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
>> >and aviation use. I'd like to have turn-by-turn directions and be
>> >able to look up com frequencies.
>>
>> There's no such thing as a "reasonable cost" aviation GPS.
>>
>> That said, I'm pretty happy with my 296, both in the air and on the
>> ground. I have the optional car kit that gives you a charger cord with a
>> speaker for spoken turn-by-turn directions, a CD with detail maps, and a
>> bean-bag mount so that I can throw it on the dash of a rental car after I
>> arrive at the destination airport.
>
>
>It sounds perfect, but the cost is unreasonable. I could afford a
>street GPS, and aviation GPS, and have money left over for the price
>of a Garmin 296. Is there maybe a lesser cost option?

What is your budget? I have Lowrance AirMap 1000 that works for air
and ground, but it does not have Turn by Turn. May have to have the
wife and a thomas brothers for that.

Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Charles Talleyrand]

On May 20, 10:56 pm, Mike 'Flyin'8' > wrote:
> >On May 20, 6:15 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> >> In a previous article, Charles Talleyrand > said:
>
> >> >Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
> >> >and aviation use. I'd like to have turn-by-turn directions and be
> >> >able to look up com frequencies.
>
> >> There's no such thing as a "reasonable cost" aviation GPS.
>
> >> That said, I'm pretty happy with my 296, both in the air and on the
> >> ground. I have the optional car kit that gives you a charger cord with a
> >> speaker for spoken turn-by-turn directions, a CD with detail maps, and a
> >> bean-bag mount so that I can throw it on the dash of a rental car after I
> >> arrive at the destination airport.
>
> >It sounds perfect, but the cost is unreasonable. I could afford a
> >street GPS, and aviation GPS, and have money left over for the price
> >of a Garmin 296. Is there maybe a lesser cost option?
>
> What is your budget? I have Lowrance AirMap 1000 that works for air
> and ground, but it does not have Turn by Turn. May have to have the
> wife and a thomas brothers for that.


My budget. My wife has not told me yet :-)

Basically, I think I have three options.

A Garmin GPSMAP 96 with the MapSource CD-ROM. It runs 375+99= $474.
This is not the color unit and only has 13M available for street
data. I have no idea if this is enough. And the screen is small.
But it's a Garmin, which means the interface is liked by me.

A reconditioned Garmin GPS Pilot III for about $300, and any street
gps for another $300. Total $600. The screens will be larger.

A Lowrance AirMap 600c GPS. Total cost $500. Seems to do everything,
has a nice color screen and large memory, and has fine reviews, but
I've never used a Lowrance so it lacks to me name brand appeal.

Any advice?

-Charles Talleyrand

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

>
>My budget. My wife has not told me yet :-)
>
>Basically, I think I have three options.
>
>A Garmin GPSMAP 96 with the MapSource CD-ROM. It runs 375+99= $474.
>This is not the color unit and only has 13M available for street
>data. I have no idea if this is enough. And the screen is small.
>But it's a Garmin, which means the interface is liked by me.
>
>A reconditioned Garmin GPS Pilot III for about $300, and any street
>gps for another $300. Total $600. The screens will be larger.
>
>A Lowrance AirMap 600c GPS. Total cost $500. Seems to do everything,
>has a nice color screen and large memory, and has fine reviews, but
>I've never used a Lowrance so it lacks to me name brand appeal.
>
>Any advice?
>
>-Charles Talleyrand


I know nothing about the turn by turn, never used one, but I am happy
with my Lowrance Air Map 1000. However, it does not meet your turn by
turn requirements, so I am in no position to recommend anything.

Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Thomas Borchert]

Charles,

> Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
> and aviation use.
>

In a word: No. While the Garmin 296 is a nice unit, it will be much
more expensive than, say, a Lowrance 600c for aviation (the Airmaps
don't do turn-by-turn) and any TomTom, Garmin or whatever for streets.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Newps]

Charles Talleyrand wrote:

>
> A Garmin GPSMAP 96 with the MapSource CD-ROM. It runs 375+99= $474.
> This is not the color unit and only has 13M available for street
> data. I have no idea if this is enough. And the screen is small.
> But it's a Garmin, which means the interface is liked by me.


That's not nearly enough memory. I know what it took for the PDA with
those other two programs. So when I got the 296 I had to buy a memory
card, I bought the biggest one Garmin offered, 512MB. The price was
terrible but whaddyer gonna do? I was taking a trip so I downloaded the
entire states of Montana, Wyoming, North and South Dakota and Minnesota.
That was about 36 MB. So if the 96 doesn't have a memory card option
it won't work.


>
> A reconditioned Garmin GPS Pilot III for about $300, and any street
> gps for another $300. Total $600. The screens will be larger.

The Pilot III screen is the same size as the 96 screen. I've had them both.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Newps > said:
>those other two programs. So when I got the 296 I had to buy a memory
>card, I bought the biggest one Garmin offered, 512MB. The price was
>terrible but whaddyer gonna do? I was taking a trip so I downloaded the
>entire states of Montana, Wyoming, North and South Dakota and Minnesota.
> That was about 36 MB. So if the 96 doesn't have a memory card option
>it won't work.

My 296 has a 256Mb memory card and I'll curse Garmin to my dying days for
not using a standard memory form factor like SD or CF. Putting in detail
maps for the entire drive from Rochester NY to Oshkosh fills it up.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
The software said it requires Windows 95 or better, so I installed Linux

[Hilton]

Hi,

Please send me an email and let me know what you don't like. We've been
getting excellent feedback on the new animated NEXRAD, Victor Airways, etc.
In fact, I used the new runway layout page with GPS yesterday and it really
helped. When we add new features, we try really hard to ensure that the
usability is not affected and we're always working on improving speed,
usability etc. I *really* do want your feedback on this because I cannot
think one case where a new WingX feature has detracted from a
current/previous feature.

The W&B is largely unchanged, the AF/D is mostly unchanged other than the
addition of important airport remarks and hot-linked phone numbers, same for
METAR/TAFs, FARs (it is now searchable)...

Again, I really would appreciate your feedback on this.

hilton*hiltonsoftwareDOTcom

Thanks,

Hilton


"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I would recommend WingX for the aviation software, and Tomtom for the
>> street software, both running on the pocketpc.
>
> I use Wing X also, but not the latest version, the one before that. The
> latest is not as good, way too much crap on there.

[Hilton]

Oh, BTW, there are screen shots of the new features I mentioned here:

http://www.hiltonsoftware.com

Thanks,

Hilton

[Justin Gombos]

On 2007-05-21, Andrew Sarangan > wrote:
> On May 20, 7:54 pm, Newps > wrote:
>
> I would recommend WingX for the aviation software, and Tomtom for
> the street software, both running on the pocketpc.

I'd like to try Xwing, but Microsoft products are such poor quality
garbage (both in terms of reliability and interface), and Xwing seems
to be completely dependant on PocketPC. There is no chance I would
allow Microsoft to support any aspect of my aviation navigation.

Are there any aviation GPS apps for PalmOS that folks recommend?

--
PM instructions: do a C4esar Ciph3r on my address; retain punctuation.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Justin Gombos > said:
>Are there any aviation GPS apps for PalmOS that folks recommend?

FlightMaster+CoPilot. See http://aeropda.com/ for details.

(I'm a slightly biased observer here - if you buy it through aeropda.com
instead of downloading and registering the two applications separately, I
get a small cut.)


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Equality. Choice. Peace. Co-operation.
Yeah, we vote "moral issues" too.

[Justin Gombos]

On 2007-05-22, Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>
> FlightMaster+CoPilot. See http://aeropda.com/ for details.

Excellent! Looks like a good product for the money. It also seems
this is the "reasonably priced" nav system the OP is looking for.

> (I'm a slightly biased observer here - if you buy it through
> aeropda.com instead of downloading and registering the two
> applications separately, I get a small cut.)

No problem.. thanks for pointing it out. Do you use the tool as your
*primary* nav system, or is it a backup?

It seems the Palm cradle would have to have a hood to shade the
screen. I could see the sun making a PDA LCD impossible to see.

--
PM instructions: do a C4esar Ciph3r on my address; retain punctuation.

[Newps]

You'll have to get over your Microsoft phobia. I've had both platforms.
Palm is a horrible operating system for these types of operations.




Justin Gombos wrote:

> On 2007-05-22, Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>
>>FlightMaster+CoPilot. See http://aeropda.com/ for details.
>
>
> Excellent! Looks like a good product for the money. It also seems
> this is the "reasonably priced" nav system the OP is looking for.
>
>
>>(I'm a slightly biased observer here - if you buy it through
>>aeropda.com instead of downloading and registering the two
>>applications separately, I get a small cut.)
>
>
> No problem.. thanks for pointing it out. Do you use the tool as your
> *primary* nav system, or is it a backup?
>
> It seems the Palm cradle would have to have a hood to shade the
> screen. I could see the sun making a PDA LCD impossible to see.
>

[Jose]

> Palm is a horrible operating system for these types of operations.

What is it about "these types of operations" that makes Palm horrible
for them (presumably without making it horrible for other stuff?)

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Newps]

Lack of processor speed, lack of memory and a near total lack of decent
software.

Jose wrote:

>> Palm is a horrible operating system for these types of operations.
>
>
> What is it about "these types of operations" that makes Palm horrible
> for them (presumably without making it horrible for other stuff?)
>
> Jose

[Justin Gombos]

On 2007-05-22, Newps > wrote:
>
> Lack of processor speed, lack of memory

Neither of those could possibly be limitations of PalmOS - or any
other portable OS for that matter. Furthermore, PalmOS is *leaner*;
Palm apps get a larger portion of the resources.

BTW - you can expect GPS s/w for street navigation to demand
substantially more processor speed due to significantly more complex
algorithms, and a 312 MHz Arm processor (at least 2 years old now) can
run TomTom 6 quite fine - and TT6 is a fairly bloated app.

> and a near total lack of decent software.

I only need one good nav app. Having more keeps the price down, but
$170 is reasonable. I would like to get the app for less, but
certainly not at the cost of creating a dependancy on the Fisher-Price
of unreliable and bloated operating systems.

--
PM instructions: do a C4esar Ciph3r on my address; retain punctuation.

[Thomas Borchert]

Justin,

> There is no chance I would
> allow Microsoft to support any aspect of my aviation navigation.
>

Oh? Then don't let yourself be caught behind many of the modern glass
panels... <Read: blanket statements like that are not really useful>


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> > There is no chance I would
> > allow Microsoft to support any aspect of my aviation navigation.
>
> Oh? Then don't let yourself be caught behind many of the modern glass
> panels... <Read: blanket statements like that are not really useful>

When you say "modern glass panels", do you mean just a moving map
(ala Avidyne's multifunctioni display for SA) or do you include glass displaying
primary instruments as well? I'm not aware of any certified glass for
primary instruments that uses any variant of a microsoft OS. And I
think it's still true that no microsoft OS has been certified to DO-178B
level C or better.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Justin Gombos > said:
>On 2007-05-22, Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>> (I'm a slightly biased observer here - if you buy it through
>> aeropda.com instead of downloading and registering the two
>> applications separately, I get a small cut.)
>
>No problem.. thanks for pointing it out. Do you use the tool as your
>*primary* nav system, or is it a backup?

I use CoPilot in the flight planning stages, but I don't use FlightMaster
since I don't have a GPS for my Treo yet.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
If you don't pay for criminally bad software through the nose, you will
never realize how much you are being ripped off!
-- Pim van Riezen

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Jose > said:
>> Palm is a horrible operating system for these types of operations.
>
>What is it about "these types of operations" that makes Palm horrible
>for them (presumably without making it horrible for other stuff?)

The biggest problem with Palm OS is that it's single tasking - it can't be
doing much of anything in the background. They are in the process of
converting Palm OS into a shell running on a Linux kernel that will fix
that problem, and personally I can't wait.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Endless Loop: n., see Loop, Endless.
Loop, Endless: n., see Endless Loop.
-- Random Shack Data Processing Dictionary

[Newps]

Paul Tomblin wrote:

> In a previous article, Jose > said:
>
>>>Palm is a horrible operating system for these types of operations.
>>
>>What is it about "these types of operations" that makes Palm horrible
>>for them (presumably without making it horrible for other stuff?)
>
>
> The biggest problem with Palm OS is that it's single tasking - it can't be
> doing much of anything in the background. They are in the process of
> converting Palm OS into a shell running on a Linux kernel that will fix
> that problem, and personally I can't wait.

It's too late. I've had Palm. I've had three versions of Microsoft
Mobile including the latest on my Motorola Q. Palm was OK on the Treo
when I had it but is far surpassed by Win Mobile 5. Hard to see how
Palm is going to get me back.

[Erik]

Thomas Borchert wrote:

> Charles,
>
>
>>Does anyone know of any reasonable cost GPSs suitable for both street
>>and aviation use.
>>
>
>
> In a word: No. While the Garmin 296 is a nice unit, it will be much
> more expensive than, say, a Lowrance 600c for aviation (the Airmaps
> don't do turn-by-turn) and any TomTom, Garmin or whatever for streets.
>

I'd like to see Tom Tom freak out when you're going over
intersections diagonally. No stop signs, no red lights,
no "left turn at next intersection".

[Justin Gombos]

On 2007-05-22, Thomas Borchert > wrote:
> Justin,
>
>> There is no chance I would allow Microsoft to support any aspect of
>> my aviation navigation.
>
> Oh? Then don't let yourself be caught behind many of the modern
> glass panels...

NASA still uses computers from the 70s for some operations because
they are proven and reliable. It's a poor choice to opt for useless
frills and eye candy if it also downgrades reliability on a safety
critical application. You're also presuming that there does not exist
a non-Microsoft dependant glass panel; and I'm not sure that that's a
valid point. Even if it were, I would rather wait around for a
quality product.

> <Read: blanket statements like that are not really useful>

I didn't read your comment that way. Furthermore, of course it's
useful for readers to hear that products they may be in the market for
are unreliable, or wholly dependant on unreliable code. Naive
consumers often don't even know there are alternatives to MS products,
much less have any idea of the quality of their products.

--
PM instructions: do a C4esar Ciph3r on my address; retain punctuation.

[Frank Eigler]

(Paul Tomblin) writes:

> >> Palm is a horrible operating system for these types of operations.
> >What is it about "these types of operations" that makes Palm horrible
> >for them (presumably without making it horrible for other stuff?)
> The biggest problem with Palm OS is that it's single tasking - it can't be
> doing much of anything in the background. [...]

That's true as far as that goes, and yet my Garmin iQue 3600a has no
problem keeping the GPS mapping software going, MP3's playing, and yet
work on some ordinary palm app.

- FChE