New FSS frustration

[gman]

Hello All,
Sorry for ranting but:

Last Friday, I was at Burnet, TX (BMQ) in light drizzle at 6:00am and
was trying to get an IFR clearance out of there. There was a cell a
few miles West of the airport moving towards the airport with a lot of
nasty stuff behind it.

I was pre-flighted and ready to go by 6:15am. So I called 1-800-WX-
BRIEF to get a quick radar update and a clearance. It took me well
over an hour-and-a-half and two attempts to get a clearance!!! In the
mean time, the storm was steadily moving towards the airport.

During the first attempt, which lasted about 45 min, I was on hold to
talk to the briefer, then he put me on hold to transfer me to someone
who can give me a clearance, then I was put on hold since he got hold
of the wrong person, then I was put on hold for the new guy to
actually get the clearance from ATC. Come to find out ATC was not
issuing any clearances until 7:10am.

On the second attempt which started at 7:00, I finally got a clearance
from the briefer at 7:40am. Also, when the briefer read the clearance,
the order was completely jumbled up.


Has anybody else had any frustrating experiences like this with the
new FSS?

[NW_Pilot]

"gman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello All,
> Sorry for ranting but:
>
> Last Friday, I was at Burnet, TX (BMQ) in light drizzle at 6:00am and
> was trying to get an IFR clearance out of there. There was a cell a
> few miles West of the airport moving towards the airport with a lot of
> nasty stuff behind it.
>
> I was pre-flighted and ready to go by 6:15am. So I called 1-800-WX-
> BRIEF to get a quick radar update and a clearance. It took me well
> over an hour-and-a-half and two attempts to get a clearance!!! In the
> mean time, the storm was steadily moving towards the airport.
>
> During the first attempt, which lasted about 45 min, I was on hold to
> talk to the briefer, then he put me on hold to transfer me to someone
> who can give me a clearance, then I was put on hold since he got hold
> of the wrong person, then I was put on hold for the new guy to
> actually get the clearance from ATC. Come to find out ATC was not
> issuing any clearances until 7:10am.
>
> On the second attempt which started at 7:00, I finally got a clearance
> from the briefer at 7:40am. Also, when the briefer read the clearance,
> the order was completely jumbled up.
>
>
> Has anybody else had any frustrating experiences like this with the
> new FSS?
>

Took me a half an hour in KIDP to get a briefer then filed IFR when I go to
the run up area In Independence called Up Center for MY Clearance right on
time and what do you know Nothing on file? I had to file on the ramp again
they were not happy byt helpful and telling me it's happening a lot.
Muskegon, MI after waiting on hold for an hour to file I said hell with it
called the tower and filed with them they were very helpful. Lockheed Martin
really sucks they are going to make it to ware if you want speedy service
your going to have to pay a fee!!!!! I am already upset at the FAA for
removing the International Flight Information Manual
www.faa.gov/ATs/aat/ifim/ sad!

[Grumman 46U]

On 29 May 2007 12:46:45 -0700, gman > wrote:

>Hello All,
>Sorry for ranting but:
>
>Last Friday, I was at Burnet, TX (BMQ) in light drizzle at 6:00am and

<snip>

If you're flying in Central-or-West Texas, try using the direct-in
number for the San Angelo FSS: 866.300.3867. They won't be there too
much longer, but while they are, that number works like a charm. It
usually takes less than a minute to get a briefer.


Michael

[Grumman 46U]

On 29 May 2007 12:46:45 -0700, gman > wrote:

>Hello All,
>Sorry for ranting but:
>
>Last Friday, I was at Burnet, TX (BMQ) in light drizzle at 6:00am and
<snip>

gman--

Let's try his again. Problems with the first reply.

If you're flying in Central-or-West Texas, try the direct-in number
for San Angelo FSS: 866.300.3867. It won't be there too much longer,
but while it is, you can usually get a briefer within a minute.

Michael

[James M. Knox]

gman > wrote in news:1180468005.366890.114090
@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

> Last Friday, I was at Burnet, TX (BMQ) in light drizzle at 6:00am and
> was trying to get an IFR clearance out of there. There was a cell a
> few miles West of the airport moving towards the airport with a lot of
> nasty stuff behind it.
> Has anybody else had any frustrating experiences like this with the
> new FSS?

I haven't had the long hold times, but trying to avoid the same storms
as you I called from the Georgetown GTU airport and tried to find out if
I was looking at thunderstorms or just heavy rain. Got through quickly
enough, but the briefer was clueless. Although I just wanted lightning
strike info, he insisted his computer would not give him any weather
info unless he took down a full flightplan information set. So I gave
him the whole thing (already had a flight plan on file) and he came back
with the exact same info that I was looking at on DUATS. He said that's
all the information they are allowed to look at... no weather radar or
anything.

He was nice enough, but he had FAR LESS information available than I
did.

[BTW, anyone want to consider what these long hold times are going to
mean the first time the plane ahead of you into a small uncontrolled
airport lands -- and tries to cancel their IFR flight plan on the
ground. How many hours are you going to hold waiting before you can
shoot the approach?]

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1300 Koenig Lane West fax 512-371-5716
Suite 200
Austin, Tx 78756
-----------------------------------------------

[The Visitor]

Would it be possible for you to call a controller directly?
Are there still centre numbers published? They used to be on Jepp maps I
seem to recall.

John

gman wrote:

> Hello All,
> Sorry for ranting but:
>
> Last Friday, I was at Burnet, TX (BMQ) in light drizzle at 6:00am and
> was trying to get an IFR clearance out of there. There was a cell a
> few miles West of the airport moving towards the airport with a lot of
> nasty stuff behind it.
>
> I was pre-flighted and ready to go by 6:15am. So I called 1-800-WX-
> BRIEF to get a quick radar update and a clearance. It took me well
> over an hour-and-a-half and two attempts to get a clearance!!! In the
> mean time, the storm was steadily moving towards the airport.
>
> During the first attempt, which lasted about 45 min, I was on hold to
> talk to the briefer, then he put me on hold to transfer me to someone
> who can give me a clearance, then I was put on hold since he got hold
> of the wrong person, then I was put on hold for the new guy to
> actually get the clearance from ATC. Come to find out ATC was not
> issuing any clearances until 7:10am.
>
> On the second attempt which started at 7:00, I finally got a clearance
> from the briefer at 7:40am. Also, when the briefer read the clearance,
> the order was completely jumbled up.
>
>
> Has anybody else had any frustrating experiences like this with the
> new FSS?
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"The Visitor" > wrote in message
...
>
> Would it be possible for you to call a controller directly?
> Are there still centre numbers published? They used to be on Jepp maps I
> seem to recall.
>

The published number doesn't ring at the controller's position.

[The Visitor]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> The published number doesn't ring at the controller's position.
>
>

No, but I could get a time void clearance, but that was probably ten
years ago or so. You probably can't do it today, it would be ttoo easy.
gman's wait was waaaay to long.

John

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"The Visitor" > wrote in message
...
>
> No, but I could get a time void clearance, but that was probably ten years
> ago or so. You probably can't do it today, it would be ttoo easy. gman's
> wait was waaaay to long.
>

You can't get one by calling a receptionist. The only person that can issue
a clearance is the controller responsible for the position.

[The Visitor]

Well I didn't say I talked to a receptionist.
Just suggesting something that has in the past worked out for me.

John

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> You can't get one by calling a receptionist. The only person that can issue
> a clearance is the controller responsible for the position.
>
>

[Newps]

The Visitor wrote:
> Well I didn't say I talked to a receptionist.
> Just suggesting something that has in the past worked out for me.



Yes, you can. Call the facility and ask for your clearance and void time.

[The Visitor]

Why bring up the poor receptionist? I have never gotten one.

It might have changed in the US in the last few years, but in Toronto
for instance, the number from the flight supplement rings on the desk of
the duty shift supervisor, and he is a controller, although not always
plgged in and working.

Hey it works and nobody minds. I was always treated nice and everybody
has always been helpful.

John

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "The Visitor" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>No, but I could get a time void clearance, but that was probably ten years
>>ago or so. You probably can't do it today, it would be ttoo easy. gman's
>>wait was waaaay to long.
>>
>
>
> You can't get one by calling a receptionist. The only person that can issue
> a clearance is the controller responsible for the position.
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"The Visitor" > wrote in message
...
>
> Why bring up the poor receptionist?
>

Somebody suggested calling the published number to reach the controller for
a clearance. I was just explaining that the published number isn't going to
be answered by the controller.

[The Visitor]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

> Somebody suggested calling the published number to reach the controller for
> a clearance. I was just explaining that the published number isn't going to
> be answered by the controller.
>
>


Well that was me I think. I used the numbers on the Jepp maps, or was it
in the front of my number 1 Jepp binder. Not a number in a phone book.

It is certainly not answered by a controller pluged in. My experience
has been it is answered by a controller (on duty) and is happy to deal
with any request. But perhps somebody can try it now and see if things
have changed?

John

[john hawkins]

For an unsympathetic response look at
http://themainbang.typepad.com/blog/2007/05/you_asked_for_i_1.html

This is from the former president of the NATCA. If you look at the rest of
his entries. I belive you will be enlightened and have a better view at the
other end of the Headset.


"gman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello All,
> Sorry for ranting but:
>
{ SNIP}

> Has anybody else had any frustrating experiences like this with the
> new FSS?
>

[Mark Manes]

I fly out of JSV under the control of Razorback Approach @FSM. I have
called Razorback Approach several times when wx was IFR and been issued a
clearance, it was issued via cell phone while waiting to depart. Not sure
if it was the guy at the position who talked to me, but it could have been
relayed to me by someone else in the facility. That's what happens when you
call FSS for a clearance.

Mark


"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "The Visitor" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> No, but I could get a time void clearance, but that was probably ten
>> years ago or so. You probably can't do it today, it would be ttoo easy.
>> gman's wait was waaaay to long.
>>
>
> You can't get one by calling a receptionist. The only person that can
> issue a clearance is the controller responsible for the position.
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Mark Manes" > wrote in message
...
>
>I fly out of JSV under the control of Razorback Approach @FSM. I have
>called Razorback Approach several times when wx was IFR and been issued a
>clearance, it was issued via cell phone while waiting to depart. Not sure
>if it was the guy at the position who talked to me, but it could have been
>relayed to me by someone else in the facility. That's what happens when
>you call FSS for a clearance.
>

Not quite. When you call FSS for a clearance the conversation is recorded.

[Mark Manes]

Is the clearance via cell phone from the local approach/departure control
recorded also?

Mark


"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
That's what happens when
>>you call FSS for a clearance.
>>
>
> Not quite. When you call FSS for a clearance the conversation is
> recorded.
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Mark Manes" > wrote in message
...
>
> Is the clearance via cell phone from the local approach/departure control
> recorded also?
>

Not if you're calling the office.