WAAS upgrade for your G1000?

[Dan Luke]

From the Cessna Pilots Ass'n avionics forum:

"Just talked to Tom Engberg at Cessna about G1000 WAAS upgrade. He said that
Cessna was waiting on Garmin to propose an upgrade to the pre 07 G1000s. He
also said that it was going to take a change in the GIAs and that would be
very expensive. This is if it is even made available. What I couldn't fine
believeable is that he said no one at Cessna knew if the upgrade was even
going to be made available. I believe that if the present owners of pre 07
G1000s don't start calling Cessna and demanding what their advertisements
stated, we will never get a WAAS upgrade."


--
Dan
? at BFM

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 29, 3:10 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> From the Cessna Pilots Ass'n avionics forum:
>
> "Just talked to Tom Engberg at Cessna about G1000 WAAS upgrade. He said that
> Cessna was waiting on Garmin to propose an upgrade to the pre 07 G1000s. He
> also said that it was going to take a change in the GIAs and that would be
> very expensive. This is if it is even made available. What I couldn't fine
> believeable is that he said no one at Cessna knew if the upgrade was even
> going to be made available. I believe that if the present owners of pre 07
> G1000s don't start calling Cessna and demanding what their advertisements
> stated, we will never get a WAAS upgrade."
>
> --
> Dan
> ? at BFM

This will be interesting for CAP. We have lots and lots of 2006 G1000
182's and 206's.

-Robert

[Dan Luke]

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

> This will be interesting for CAP. We have lots and lots of 2006 G1000
> 182's and 206's.

Could be really bad. Owners 0f 2004-2006 Cessnas could find the IFR utility
of their airplanes diminishing yearly as the FAA commissions more LNAV-VNAV
WAAS approaches. Can you say "class action suit?"

What about when ADS-B arrives? Will G1000 owners be SOL then, too?

--
Dan

"The future has actually been here for a while, it's just not readily
available to everyone."

- some guy at MIT

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
>...
> Could be really bad. Owners 0f 2004-2006 Cessnas could find the IFR
> utility of their airplanes diminishing yearly as the FAA commissions more
> LNAV-VNAV WAAS approaches. Can you say "class action suit?"
>
> What about when ADS-B arrives? Will G1000 owners be SOL then, too?
>
>...
>

I can't see the FAA decommissioning VOR / ILS / GPS / RNAV approaches as
they bring up new WAAS approaches. I can see that the older G1000s won't be
able to take advantage of the new approaches.

I also don't see this as a big impact for CAP since very, very little of our
flying is done in IMC (except for transport or maybe electronic searches).

I think this will become a marketing / legal issue for Cessna however,
especially if promises were made.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

[Frank Eigler]

"Dan Luke" > writes:

> > This will be interesting for CAP. We have lots and lots of 2006 G1000
> > 182's and 206's.
>
> Could be really bad. Owners 0f 2004-2006 Cessnas could find the IFR utility
> of their airplanes diminishing yearly as the FAA commissions more LNAV-VNAV
> WAAS approaches.

What the?! Did any fool ever any proclaim a guarantee of
"non-diminishing IFR utility"? Even if they did, how exactly do you
figure that the mere existence of LNAV-VNAV approaches somehow
dimishes the utility of those machines that cannot use them?! If
anything, they can be a plus -- there any LNAV-VNAV family approaches
that do not also have plain LNAV?

> Can you say "class action suit?" [...]

Yes, and I can also say "bozo the clown".

- FChE

[Dan Luke]

"Frank Eigler" wrote:

>
> What the?! Did any fool ever any proclaim a guarantee of
> "non-diminishing IFR utility"?

No, but Cessna and Garmin both said that older G1000s would be upgradable.

> Even if they did, how exactly do you
> figure that the mere existence of LNAV-VNAV approaches somehow
> dimishes the utility of those machines that cannot use them?!

Think about the fact that the FAA is counting on GPS to allow them to do away
with ground based NAV systems--it's already happening. Do you really believe
that won't include some ILS's?

> If
> anything, they can be a plus --

Haw-haw!

> there any LNAV-VNAV family approaches
> that do not also have plain LNAV?

Evidently the concept of lower minimums for VNAV is new to you.


>> Can you say "class action suit?" [...]
>
> Yes, and I can also say "bozo the clown".

Can you do tricks on your tiny bicycle, too?


--
Dan

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

[Darrel Toepfer]

"Dan Luke" > wrote:

> What about when ADS-B arrives?

Hopefully it'll come with more vendors offering products and price
competiton... Right now the offerings are few and the pricing high...

[Frank Eigler]

"Dan Luke" wrote:

> Think about the fact that the FAA is counting on GPS to allow them
> to do away with ground based NAV systems--it's already happening.
> Do you really believe that won't include some ILS's?

So *that's* what you're aching to sue Garmin & Cessna for?
The hypothetical decommissioning of ILS approaches by the FAA?
Good luck with that.


> > there any LNAV-VNAV family approaches that do not also have plain
> > LNAV?
>
> Evidently the concept of lower minimums for VNAV is new to you.

Or rather, I can tell the difference between a contrapositive and a
non sequitor.


- FChE

[Dan Luke]

"Frank Eigler" wrote:

>
>> Think about the fact that the FAA is counting on GPS to allow them
>> to do away with ground based NAV systems--it's already happening.
>> Do you really believe that won't include some ILS's?
>
> So *that's* what you're aching to sue Garmin & Cessna for?
> The hypothetical decommissioning of ILS approaches by the FAA?
> Good luck with that.

That's quite a little reading comprehension problem you've got there, Bozo.
Did you take your Ritalin?

>> > there any LNAV-VNAV family approaches that do not also have plain
>> > LNAV?
>>
>> Evidently the concept of lower minimums for VNAV is new to you.
>
> Or rather, I can tell the difference between a contrapositive and a
> non sequitor.

Debatable. If you were that familiar, you ought at least be able to spell the
words. However, judging by your remarks, I'd say you are a natural master of
non sequitur, even if you don't realize it when you are doing it.

--
Dan

"Almost all the matter that came out of the Big Bang was two specific sorts;
hydrogen, and stupidity."

-Robert Carnegie in talk.origins

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 30, 7:54 am, Darrel Toepfer > wrote:
> "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > What about when ADS-B arrives?
>
> Hopefully it'll come with more vendors offering products and price
> competiton... Right now the offerings are few and the pricing high...

Yea, and the FAA seems to be helping avoid competition.

[Peter Clark]

On 30 May 2007 13:28:30 -0400, Frank Eigler
> wrote:

>
>"Dan Luke" wrote:
>
>> Think about the fact that the FAA is counting on GPS to allow them
>> to do away with ground based NAV systems--it's already happening.
>> Do you really believe that won't include some ILS's?
>
>So *that's* what you're aching to sue Garmin & Cessna for?
>The hypothetical decommissioning of ILS approaches by the FAA?
>Good luck with that.

No, they'd be sued for printing "WAAS upgradable" on all their price
lists since the G1000 was introduced and then not providing that
upgrade. They didn't say it was going to be free, just that there was
going to be an upgrade path.

And since the same comdat antenni and GIA form-factor boxen are used
in the pre-and-post WAAS aircraft, the inability to ship out a new
comdat and GIA box and have WAAS in the older aiframes is suspect. It
should be a 2 hour job to smack the new antenni and boxes in and do a
flight test. That was the whole point of the G1000 system, modular
functions. Replace the box, instant upgrade.

[[email protected]]

This illustrates the downside of a fully integrated solution. You are
at the
whim of the original manufacturer for upgrades. It is virtually
impossible
to add other boxes.

I'm touched slightly by this... I use a comdat antenna with my 430.
It's a
great solution, requiring few holes in the roof.

But there is no comdat waas approved version yet :- ( ...probably
due to the
G-1000 situation.

Bill Hale Loveland CO







On May 30, 4:54 pm, Peter Clark
> wrote:
> On 30 May 2007 13:28:30 -0400, Frank Eigler
>
> > wrote:
>
> >"Dan Luke" wrote:
>
> >> Think about the fact that the FAA is counting on GPS to allow them
> >> to do away with ground based NAV systems--it's already happening.
> >> Do you really believe that won't include some ILS's?
>
> >So *that's* what you're aching to sue Garmin & Cessna for?
> >The hypothetical decommissioning of ILS approaches by the FAA?
> >Good luck with that.
>
> No, they'd be sued for printing "WAAS upgradable" on all their price
> lists since the G1000 was introduced and then not providing that
> upgrade. They didn't say it was going to be free, just that there was
> going to be an upgrade path.
>
> And since the same comdat antenni and GIA form-factor boxen are used
> in the pre-and-post WAAS aircraft, the inability to ship out a new
> comdat and GIA box and have WAAS in the older aiframes is suspect. It
> should be a 2 hour job to smack the new antenni and boxes in and do a
> flight test. That was the whole point of the G1000 system, modular
> functions. Replace the box, instant upgrade.

[Peter Clark]

Unless I missed something there must be a comdat tri-antenna (COM,
GPS, GDL69A) WAAS approved version since the 2007 Cessna range with
WAAS GIAs installed are using them. It's possible I'm wrong, but I
don't recall seeing a puck or two on the roof like the old KLN94
installs had. Either that or the way they added the WAAS hardware to
the new GIA alleviated the need for the updated antenna somehow. I'll
have to look at the parts manual tomorrow and see if they changed the
antennas.

On 30 May 2007 16:44:59 -0700, "
> wrote:

>This illustrates the downside of a fully integrated solution. You are
>at the
>whim of the original manufacturer for upgrades. It is virtually
>impossible
>to add other boxes.
>
>I'm touched slightly by this... I use a comdat antenna with my 430.
>It's a
>great solution, requiring few holes in the roof.
>
>But there is no comdat waas approved version yet :- ( ...probably
>due to the
>G-1000 situation.
>
>Bill Hale Loveland CO
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On May 30, 4:54 pm, Peter Clark
> wrote:
>> On 30 May 2007 13:28:30 -0400, Frank Eigler
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >"Dan Luke" wrote:
>>
>> >> Think about the fact that the FAA is counting on GPS to allow them
>> >> to do away with ground based NAV systems--it's already happening.
>> >> Do you really believe that won't include some ILS's?
>>
>> >So *that's* what you're aching to sue Garmin & Cessna for?
>> >The hypothetical decommissioning of ILS approaches by the FAA?
>> >Good luck with that.
>>
>> No, they'd be sued for printing "WAAS upgradable" on all their price
>> lists since the G1000 was introduced and then not providing that
>> upgrade. They didn't say it was going to be free, just that there was
>> going to be an upgrade path.
>>
>> And since the same comdat antenni and GIA form-factor boxen are used
>> in the pre-and-post WAAS aircraft, the inability to ship out a new
>> comdat and GIA box and have WAAS in the older aiframes is suspect. It
>> should be a 2 hour job to smack the new antenni and boxes in and do a
>> flight test. That was the whole point of the G1000 system, modular
>> functions. Replace the box, instant upgrade.
>

[Ahmed_Reza]

Has there been any update on G1000 WAAS upgrades for Pre-2007 G1000
customers? Last post on this thread seemes to have been 5/31/07, now 3
months later.

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Ahmed_Reza" wrote:

> Has there been any update on G1000 WAAS upgrades for Pre-2007 G1000
> customers? Last post on this thread seemes to have been 5/31/07, now 3
> months later.

I haven't heard anything new.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM