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Bob Fry
May 30th 07, 03:30 AM
A friend's neighbor is an instructor for DC-10 full motion
simulators. I do not know how or why, but occasionally my friend is
invited to play in the sim. And he is invited to bring his friends,
which is why on Memorial Day weekend I was inside the sim trying to
remember not our veterans but a host of buttons, knobs, and new
terminology like "bug-up", "bug-down", "vert-{up,down}",
"auto-throttles", and the like.

It was the first time I have been inside a full motion sim. The thing
is damn realistic and after about an hour, with perhaps a day-to-night
or weather change or location change, or all changing, one forgets
what the real world is doing and where you are, and your reality is
the sim. We did "normal" take-offs, pattern, and landings (where all
the automation is used and very little hand-flying is done), abnormal
hand-flying for grins, 400 ft ceilings, night, you name it.

This was an Air Force sim and thus one thing we did was chase a tanker
and try to get fuel. I was flying from the right seat, caught up to
the tanker and tried to approach. The -10 flies just a little
differently than my Aircoupe and as I approach the boom, my
side-to-side oscillations got a little wider each time. It was so
realistic that I broke off in spite of my companions yelling "no no
keep trying!" It was too hard to deliberately make the attempt, even
intellectually knowing it was all a simulation.

We rotated seats and all had time in the left seat, right seat, and
engineer's seat. While spending time in the latter I got a bit bored
and asked the instructor if I could play with the switches. "Sure, you
can't damage anything," he replied. That was all I needed to play a
trick on my friend. He was supposed to land in a 400 foot ceiling and
the instructor failed an engine, which he was handling too well. So
first I started dumping fuel. This didn't work fast enough for my
purpose, which was to throw a real emergency at him, not something
simple like a mere engine failure. Then I started switching off
hydraulic pumps. That caught his attention. Later he said the
controls got real imbalanced, the elevator being very heavy and
sluggish but the ailerons still normal.

After several hours of this we all called it quits.

Take home lesson? Know somebody that you can grab a few hours of
full-motion sim time. Frankly, normal flying of the -10 takes far
more intellectual, computer-like skills than kinesthetic flying
skills. Not boasting or bragging, but I got a little glimmer that it
is not as hard as I might think--again, normal operation. It was very
easy to see how a few hours of flying lessons in a C-172, plus a few
sim hours, would be enough to cause 9/11. That, and months or years
of deliberately going mad to commit suicide.

It was disorienting to return outside to hot, sunny weather. It was
one of the most mentally consuming experiences I've been through. If
you get a chance to do this, take it!

Oh, yes. Bug up and vert up? Bug up is setting the desired altitude
bug on the autopilot to higher than your current altitude. But that
alone won't initiate a climb. Then you set the desired vertical climb
rate and the plane climbs to altitude and levels off. With the
auto-throttles on this all works nicely.

--
"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - This is not humorous by
itself; but in the context it's a classic by Bill Gates in 1981

May 30th 07, 04:23 AM
Bob Fry > wrote:
> It was disorienting to return outside to hot, sunny weather. It was
> one of the most mentally consuming experiences I've been through. If
> you get a chance to do this, take it!

If you get another chance, and if the sim will fly this way, see if you
can fly it with the motion base (the hydraulic rams under the sim) shut
off. With good wrap-around visuals, you put the thing in a bank, the
view changes, and your brain will swear up and down that you're in a
bank, even though you're still sitting on a perfectly straight and level
seat.

This probably isn't surprising to people who have an IFR rating, but it
impressed me the first time I did it in a full-motion sim. This
probably isn't a normal mode for the simulator; the reason the sim I was
in was flying this way was that it was work-in-progress at the factory
and the motion control wasn't ready yet.

Another effect of getting time in a full-motion sim is that your friends
who have PC-based flight sims will hate you. Them: "Dude, I just got a
$500 video card and three 21-inch LCD monitors, check it out!" You:
"Yeah, this pretty much sucks." :)

Matt Roberds

Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]
May 30th 07, 04:37 AM
Bob Fry > wrote in
:

> A friend's neighbor is an instructor for DC-10 full motion
> simulators. I do not know how or why, but occasionally my friend is
> invited to play in the sim. And he is invited to bring his friends,
> which is why on Memorial Day weekend I was inside the sim trying to
> remember not our veterans but a host of buttons, knobs, and new
> terminology like "bug-up", "bug-down", "vert-{up,down}",
> "auto-throttles", and the like.
>
> It was the first time I have been inside a full motion sim. The thing
> is damn realistic and after about an hour, with perhaps a day-to-night
> or weather change or location change, or all changing, one forgets
> what the real world is doing and where you are, and your reality is
> the sim. We did "normal" take-offs, pattern, and landings (where all
> the automation is used and very little hand-flying is done), abnormal
> hand-flying for grins, 400 ft ceilings, night, you name it.
>
> This was an Air Force sim and thus one thing we did was chase a tanker
> and try to get fuel. I was flying from the right seat, caught up to
> the tanker and tried to approach. The -10 flies just a little
> differently than my Aircoupe and as I approach the boom, my
> side-to-side oscillations got a little wider each time. It was so
> realistic that I broke off in spite of my companions yelling "no no
> keep trying!" It was too hard to deliberately make the attempt, even
> intellectually knowing it was all a simulation.
>
> We rotated seats and all had time in the left seat, right seat, and
> engineer's seat. While spending time in the latter I got a bit bored
> and asked the instructor if I could play with the switches. "Sure, you
> can't damage anything," he replied. That was all I needed to play a
> trick on my friend. He was supposed to land in a 400 foot ceiling and
> the instructor failed an engine, which he was handling too well. So
> first I started dumping fuel. This didn't work fast enough for my
> purpose, which was to throw a real emergency at him, not something
> simple like a mere engine failure. Then I started switching off
> hydraulic pumps. That caught his attention. Later he said the
> controls got real imbalanced, the elevator being very heavy and
> sluggish but the ailerons still normal.
>
> After several hours of this we all called it quits.
>
> Take home lesson? Know somebody that you can grab a few hours of
> full-motion sim time. Frankly, normal flying of the -10 takes far
> more intellectual, computer-like skills than kinesthetic flying
> skills. Not boasting or bragging, but I got a little glimmer that it
> is not as hard as I might think--again, normal operation. It was very
> easy to see how a few hours of flying lessons in a C-172, plus a few
> sim hours, would be enough to cause 9/11. That, and months or years
> of deliberately going mad to commit suicide.
>
> It was disorienting to return outside to hot, sunny weather. It was
> one of the most mentally consuming experiences I've been through. If
> you get a chance to do this, take it!
>
> Oh, yes. Bug up and vert up? Bug up is setting the desired altitude
> bug on the autopilot to higher than your current altitude. But that
> alone won't initiate a climb. Then you set the desired vertical climb
> rate and the plane climbs to altitude and levels off. With the
> auto-throttles on this all works nicely.
>

Actually using VS in the climb is considered a bad idea, except for very
short climbs.
Problem is, that particular autopilot (and most of them in fact) will
use the VS blind and completely disregard airspeed after max power is
reached with the autothrottles. The result is the airspeed can fall off
rapidly completely unnoticed by the crew until alarms start going off.
An Aeromexico -10 found this out the hard way coming out of London years
ago and had an upset. Loss of an engine without reselecting something
else on the MCP or say ice can exacerbate the problem. An Alitalia ATR
42 was lostaround 1987 in Bergamo climbing in VS when it got some ice on
the wings. Now in an ATR when you are accruing ice, you must maintain a
min speed, but the airplane was flying in VS. Since the ice dgraded the
climb capability, the airplane tried to trade speed for climb as set in
the MCP VS window and the result was a low speed, even faster ice
accretion and a smashed airplane.

Not a problem in your Ercoupe, obviously.


Bertie

kontiki
May 30th 07, 11:38 AM
Bob Fry wrote:

> It was very
> easy to see how a few hours of flying lessons in a C-172, plus a few
> sim hours, would be enough to cause 9/11. That, and months or years
> of deliberately going mad to commit suicide.

It is not "going mad.." it is being indoctrinated from birth to
hate or disdain all other religions, sects and nationalities but
your own. These people make the KKK look like boy scouts.

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