Bluetooth Wireless Headsets

[Jay Honeck]

Lopresti recently introduced a product that I've long awaited --
bluetooth wireless ANR headphones.

This technology seems to be key to solving one of the great
aggravations in the cockpit -- wire snarl. I've done everything
possible to minimize wiring from our GPS units, and from XM satellite
radio -- but we've STILL got a massive snarl of wiring for our four-
place intercom. To do away with all that, once and for all, would be
awesome.

Strangely, the product seems to have generated very little buzz in the
market, and very little notice in the magazines, which is surprising
to me. Perhaps it's because Lopresti is new to the headphone
market?

Anyone seen/tried these things yet?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Shirl]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> Lopresti recently introduced a product that I've long awaited --
> bluetooth wireless ANR headphones.
>
> This technology seems to be key to solving one of the great
> aggravations in the cockpit -- wire snarl. I've done everything
> possible to minimize wiring from our GPS units, and from XM satellite
> radio -- but we've STILL got a massive snarl of wiring for our four-
> place intercom. To do away with all that, once and for all, would be
> awesome.

ITA. I hate wires going everywhere, too.

> Strangely, the product seems to have generated very little buzz in the
> market, and very little notice in the magazines, which is surprising
> to me. Perhaps it's because Lopresti is new to the headphone
> market?

I bet that's it. If Bose or Dave Clark came out with them, everyone
would know about it.

> Anyone seen/tried these things yet?

No. Where did you see it? What does it entail and what does it cost?

[Jay Honeck]

> No. Where did you see it? What does it entail and what does it cost?

Do a search for "Lopresti Headset" and you'll get gajillion hits.
Here's one:

http://www.sbwire.com/news/view/11896
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Rolf Blom]

On 2007-05-30 15:57, Jay Honeck wrote:
> Lopresti recently introduced a product that I've long awaited --
> bluetooth wireless ANR headphones.
>
> This technology seems to be key to solving one of the great
> aggravations in the cockpit -- wire snarl. I've done everything
> possible to minimize wiring from our GPS units, and from XM satellite
> radio -- but we've STILL got a massive snarl of wiring for our four-
> place intercom. To do away with all that, once and for all, would be
> awesome.
>
> Strangely, the product seems to have generated very little buzz in the
> market, and very little notice in the magazines, which is surprising
> to me. Perhaps it's because Lopresti is new to the headphone
> market?
>
> Anyone seen/tried these things yet?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

I don't think they're out yet, but according to this link, they could be
available at the end of the year:
http://www.bluetoothsource.net/2007/05/lopresti-clearblue-bluetooth-headset-for-pilots

http://www.sbwire.com/news/view/11896
“We are currently looking to partner with existing headset
manufacturers.” “We expect to make the first deliveries in time for
Christmas.”

Interesting setup, but I guess you need to carry a battery on your
person to keep it going 8-10hrs

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

That's the link I just finished reading.

Sounds like a great idea.

A few questions that immediately pop into my head are:

Are they ANR's? I missed that in the link.

how big is the "wireless module that connects to your aircraft RCA jacks"
(and where do I put it)

Is the 8-10 hours on a charge for the 3v Lithium battery a real world number
or is that without anybody talking?
How many flights will I be forced to dig for the RCA cords and plug myself
in because the battery just died?

Most of us can carry on a conversation while ATC talks with other aircraft,
keeping an ear perked for our N number or location. Although I know nothing
about "cascading frequencies" I wonder if cockpit conversations as well as
music will be totally cut off when ATC speaks.

Looks like Christmas roll out once they find a headset partner. Someone
else to add to my OSH list!

Jim


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> > No. Where did you see it? What does it entail and what does it cost?
>
> Do a search for "Lopresti Headset" and you'll get gajillion hits.
> Here's one:
>
> http://www.sbwire.com/news/view/11896
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> No. Where did you see it? What does it entail and what does it cost?
>
> Do a search for "Lopresti Headset" and you'll get gajillion hits.
> Here's one:
>
> http://www.sbwire.com/news/view/11896

The reason you haven't heard much about it is that it is so new it may not
really exist yet. The press release you linked to above is dated 5/14/07 and
the website mentioned at the bottom of the press release
http://www.LoPrestiFury.com shows no information on it.

[RST Engineering]

> Are they ANR's? I missed that in the link.

In my opinion, the hot setup is a small box (cigarette package size) that
clips to the back of your seat, your belt loop, or your shirt pocket and
your CURRENT HEADSET plugs into that box. Two main advantages: One, it
uses your expensive current headset in any format you desire AND if the
"wireless module" goes TU, you take the headset plugs out of the module,
break the wiretie cord, plug them into the aircraft jacks and you are back
in business. While connected to the module, you can coil the headset cable
up and tie it with rubber bands or thread that can be easily broken in the
aforementioned TU mode of operation.

I have just gotten my response from TI as to their recommendations for the
technology (strangely enough, just started last Tuesday before I got wind of
this nonsense) and their recommendation is to go straight ISM and not fool
around with Bluetooth or Zigbee...this from their senior applications
engineer.

We are going to have a wireless unit by Christmas also, but I decline to
state the year {;-)


>
> how big is the "wireless module that connects to your aircraft RCA jacks"
> (and where do I put it)

Aircraft do not have RCA jacks with one exception and that is the antenna
connection on a marker receiver in some makes and models. Some older
transceivers used them on the NAV antenna as well, but nobody uses RCA for
audio.



>
> Is the 8-10 hours on a charge for the 3v Lithium battery a real world
> number
> or is that without anybody talking?
> How many flights will I be forced to dig for the RCA cords and plug myself
> in because the battery just died?

If we can get 50 hours on a 9 volt battery for a full 4-station intercom, I
fail to see how a simple microwatt transceiver will only get 10 hours on a
Lion battery.



>
> Most of us can carry on a conversation while ATC talks with other
> aircraft,
> keeping an ear perked for our N number or location. Although I know
> nothing
> about "cascading frequencies" I wonder if cockpit conversations as well as
> music will be totally cut off when ATC speaks.

We did a hell of a lot of testing in-flight before we decided that the ONLY
priority in the audio system should be to shut the music off whenever
ANYTHING else (ATC, intercom, marker, alert, etc.) comes on. You should
have control of everything else.


>
> Looks like Christmas roll out once they find a headset partner. Someone
> else to add to my OSH list!

I'd volunteer, but I really don't like their design mechanisms ... it seems
you have to have an Ipod on board, the priority system sucks, the battery
life is nfg, and while Bluetooth is a great buzzword it really doesn't
belong in this sort of a system.

IMnsHO, of course.

Jim

[Jose]

> and their recommendation is to go straight ISM and not fool
> around with Bluetooth or Zigbee

What is ISM? (and what is zigbee?)

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[RST Engineering]

Google is your friend. ISM is Industrial, Scientific, Medical and Zigbee is
a proprietary form of spread spectrum modulation.

Jim

--
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who count in binary and those who don't
"Jose" > wrote in message
t...
>> and their recommendation is to go straight ISM and not fool around with
>> Bluetooth or Zigbee
>
> What is ISM? (and what is zigbee?)
>
> Jose
> --
> There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to know
> what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when they
> push the button.
> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jose]

> Google is your friend. ISM is Industrial, Scientific, Medical and Zigbee is
> a proprietary form of spread spectrum modulation.

Google may be my friend, but I guess I need a best buddy. I know about
acronymfinder.com and a few others (and had already been there), but
given "Industrial, Scientific, Medical" as a possibility, I would not
have thought it applied here (i.e. as opposed to Bluetooth).

Once asking about ISM, why not ask about Zigbee? (does it replace
Bluetooth?)

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 30 May 2007 09:12:31 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote in
>:

>In my opinion, the hot setup is a small box (cigarette package size) that
>clips to the back of your seat, your belt loop, or your shirt pocket and
>your CURRENT HEADSET plugs into that box. Two main advantages: One, it
>uses your expensive current headset in any format you desire AND if the
>"wireless module" goes TU, you take the headset plugs out of the module,
>break the wiretie cord, plug them into the aircraft jacks and you are back
>in business. While connected to the module, you can coil the headset cable
>up and tie it with rubber bands or thread that can be easily broken in the
>aforementioned TU mode of operation.

That sounds like in intelligent solution.

I suppose there'll have to be another little box to plug into the
headset jacks. The audio portion seems relatively straightforward,
but have you designed a robust method of keying the mic _only_ when
intended, that won't be affected by stray transmissions?

>I have just gotten my response from TI as to their recommendations for the
>technology and their recommendation is to go straight ISM and not fool
>around with Bluetooth or Zigbee...this from their senior applications
>engineer.

It's hard to argue with Motorola, but it would seem that with so many
cell phones supporting BlueTooth now, the additional ability to
communicate with the phone might be a plus.

[Montblack]

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
> It's hard to argue with Motorola, but it would seem that with so many cell
> phones supporting BlueTooth now, the additional ability to communicate
> with the phone might be a plus.


Great. Now you can get cut off in the pattern - by people talking on their
cell phones. :-)


Montblack

[RST Engineering]

--
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who count in binary and those who don't



> I suppose there'll have to be another little box to plug into the
> headset jacks. The audio portion seems relatively straightforward,
> but have you designed a robust method of keying the mic _only_ when
> intended, that won't be affected by stray transmissions?

No, this is going to be an "owner airplane" design only. I haven't decided
yet what the "base station" is going to look like, but I could be convinced
to make it an option with an audio panel so that you get all the functions
in one rack mounted box, complete with volume and squelch control on the
intercom line.

With four mic channels coming in and two PTT switches on the front two
control wheels, it is quite easy to mute the intercom when somebody hits the
PTT switch (either one) and then logically decide which of the two PTT
switches are active. You can optionally prioritize the PTT switches or if
both of them are active, both mic audios will be linked to the transmitter
as well.


>
> It's hard to argue with Motorola, but it would seem that with so many
> cell phones supporting BlueTooth now, the additional ability to
> communicate with the phone might be a plus.

Nope. KISS and BURP.

Jim

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 30 May 2007 14:23:51 -0500, "Montblack"
> wrote in
>:

>
>Great. Now you can get cut off in the pattern - by people talking on their
>cell phones. :-)

Or contact approach/center when your radio fails.

[john smith[_2_]]

In article >,
"RST Engineering" > wrote:

> With four mic channels coming in and two PTT switches on the front two
> control wheels, it is quite easy to mute the intercom when somebody hits the
> PTT switch (either one) and then logically decide which of the two PTT
> switches are active. You can optionally prioritize the PTT switches or if
> both of them are active, both mic audios will be linked to the transmitter
> as well.

PLEASE!!! Make it six place! Switchable/configurable, however.
Those of us who rent Cherokee Six's need something that will serve all
the seats.

[RST Engineering]

Sorry, I can't please everybody. If I made it 6 channel, the fellers with
the Caravans would want 8, 10, 12...

Besides, this is not a RENTER's box. At least the "command module" is going
to have to be permanently mounted into the aircraft.

Jim

--
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who count in binary and those who don't
"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "RST Engineering" > wrote:
>
>> With four mic channels coming in and two PTT switches on the front two
>> control wheels, it is quite easy to mute the intercom when somebody hits
>> the
>> PTT switch (either one) and then logically decide which of the two PTT
>> switches are active. You can optionally prioritize the PTT switches or
>> if
>> both of them are active, both mic audios will be linked to the
>> transmitter
>> as well.
>
> PLEASE!!! Make it six place! Switchable/configurable, however.
> Those of us who rent Cherokee Six's need something that will serve all
> the seats.

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

Crap... and here I thought I might finally get rid of the 4 place intercom
in the Aztec, jumper cables suck.
JimB

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Sorry, I can't please everybody. If I made it 6 channel, the fellers with
> the Caravans would want 8, 10, 12...
>
> Besides, this is not a RENTER's box. At least the "command module" is
going
> to have to be permanently mounted into the aircraft.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> There are only 10 kinds of people in the world.
> Those who count in binary and those who don't
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> >
> >> With four mic channels coming in and two PTT switches on the front two
> >> control wheels, it is quite easy to mute the intercom when somebody
hits
> >> the
> >> PTT switch (either one) and then logically decide which of the two PTT
> >> switches are active. You can optionally prioritize the PTT switches or
> >> if
> >> both of them are active, both mic audios will be linked to the
> >> transmitter
> >> as well.
> >
> > PLEASE!!! Make it six place! Switchable/configurable, however.
> > Those of us who rent Cherokee Six's need something that will serve all
> > the seats.
>
>

[**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**]

I am interested I had been looking at a Bluetooth solution for a land
mobile headset application. Problem is that you need PTT and Bluetooth
doesn't seem to have that feature.

RST Engineering wrote:

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

[RST Engineering]

You don't need PTT for ANY intercom function; you only need it when you need
to turn on the COM transmitter. You an airplane sparky?

Jim

--
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who count in binary and those who don't

"**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**" > wrote in message
...
>I am interested I had been looking at a Bluetooth solution for a land
>mobile headset application. Problem is that you need PTT and Bluetooth
>doesn't seem to have that feature.

[**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**]

I work in the Land Mobile Radio field. FCC licensed etc. PTT is required
for the LMR comm's. VOX might work if audio is buffered.

RST Engineering wrote:

>You don't need PTT for ANY intercom function; you only need it when you need
>to turn on the COM transmitter. You an airplane sparky?
>
>Jim
>
>
>

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

[Montblack]

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
>>Great. Now you can get cut off in the pattern - by people talking on their
>>cell phones. :-)

> Or contact approach/center when your radio fails.


Text message coming in, it's our departure clearance.

http://www.terma.com/index.dsp?page=694#


Montblackberry

[RST Engineering]

I don't give a good goddamned what field you work in. I've been licensed
FCC for fifty years, FCC First Phone and Radar Endorsement.

LMR and VOX mean nothing in the aviation field.

I ask you again, do you have ANY experience in the avionics world? If not,
just shut up and read the mail.

Jim

--
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who count in binary and those who don't
"**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**" > wrote in message
...
>I work in the Land Mobile Radio field. FCC licensed etc. PTT is required
>for the LMR comm's. VOX might work if audio is buffered.

[Nathan Young]

On 30 May 2007 06:57:31 -0700, Jay Honeck > wrote:

>This technology seems to be key to solving one of the great
>aggravations in the cockpit -- wire snarl. I've done everything
>possible to minimize wiring from our GPS units, and from XM satellite
>radio -- but we've STILL got a massive snarl of wiring for our four-
>place intercom. To do away with all that, once and for all, would be
>awesome.

I love Bluetooth - and went all BT in the cockpit to eliminate the
cable tangles: BT GPS, BT XM Weather, BT Tablet PC.

But there is no way I am going BT headset. I believe communications
is something where the KISS rule applies.

Jay - regarding your headset cable tangles - do you have a panel mount
intercom? Or are you using a portable? I used to have a portable on
the floor next to the flap handle (Cherokee) and always got tangled
entering/exiting the plane. I installed a PS7000, put headset jacks
in the lower corners of the panel, and in the rear - where the
ashtrays used to be. It works great, and I cannot recall tripping on
a cable since. OTOH, I typically do not fly with all 4 seats full as
you and Mary do, so that probably makes a difference.

-Nathan

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> Strangely, the product seems to have generated very little buzz in the
> market, and very little notice in the magazines, which is surprising
> to me. Perhaps it's because Lopresti is new to the headphone
> market?
>

Perhaps it's because the headset itself is way behind today's standard.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**]

Thanks I will give you same courtesy if I see you on the "Land Mobile
Radio" boards. By the way VOX is Voice Operated Transmit.

PLONK

RST Engineering wrote:

>I don't give a good goddamned what field you work in. I've been licensed
>FCC for fifty years, FCC First Phone and Radar Endorsement.
>
>LMR and VOX mean nothing in the aviation field.
>
>I ask you again, do you have ANY experience in the avionics world? If not,
>just shut up and read the mail.
>
>Jim
>
>
>

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

[**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**]

Guess your RST company is off the bidders list Oh well, just 5K peices

RST Engineering wrote:

>I don't give a good goddamned what field you work in. I've been licensed
>FCC for fifty years, FCC First Phone and Radar Endorsement.
>
>LMR and VOX mean nothing in the aviation field.
>
>I ask you again, do you have ANY experience in the avionics world? If not,
>just shut up and read the mail.
>
>Jim
>
>
>

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay - regarding your headset cable tangles - do you have a panel mount
> intercom? Or are you using a portable? I used to have a portable on
> the floor next to the flap handle (Cherokee) and always got tangled
> entering/exiting the plane. I installed a PS7000, put headset jacks
> in the lower corners of the panel, and in the rear - where the
> ashtrays used to be. It works great, and I cannot recall tripping on
> a cable since.

This is exactly the set-up we have -- except we've got the PS
Engineering CD/Intercom combo unit.

When I slide across the plane into the pilot seat (danged single
door!) I am eternally catching my foot on the co-pilot's headset
cord. We try to remember to drape it over the yoke, but inevitably
forget. Or it falls down.

I've successfully eliminated every other cord in the cockpit, now that
we've panel-docked the 496 -- but I'd sure love to eliminate those
headset cords.

But it remains to be seen if Lopresti has found the answer.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith[_2_]]

In article >,
"Montblack" > wrote:

> ("Larry Dighera" wrote)
> >>Great. Now you can get cut off in the pattern - by people talking on their
> >>cell phones. :-)
>
> > Or contact approach/center when your radio fails.
>
>
> Text message coming in, it's our departure clearance.
>
> http://www.terma.com/index.dsp?page=694#

Been around for years... called ACARS

[john smith[_2_]]

In article . com>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:

> When I slide across the plane into the pilot seat (danged single
> door!) I am eternally catching my foot on the co-pilot's headset
> cord. We try to remember to drape it over the yoke, but inevitably
> forget. Or it falls down.

The truth finally comes out about how those Lightspeed's "really" got
broken!

[Montblack]

("john smith" wrote)
>> Text message coming in, it's our departure clearance.
>>
>> http://www.terma.com/index.dsp?page=694#

> Been around for years... called ACARS


To your cell phone? :-)

<http://www.amazon.com/Get-Messaging-Guide-Instant-Text/dp/0740723537>

"The Last Messages"
<http://sycamorereview.com/blog/2007/1/25/a-text-message-novel.html>
"Finnish author Hannu Luntiala has unleashed a new twist on the epistolary
form: a novel whose narrative consists entirely of cell phone text
messages. The Last Messages uses 1000 text messages to tell the story of a
Finnish executive who quits his job to travel the world, using his phone to
communicate with friends and relatives at home."


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

> > When I slide across the plane into the pilot seat (danged single
> > door!) I am eternally catching my foot on the co-pilot's headset
> > cord. We try to remember to drape it over the yoke, but inevitably
> > forget. Or it falls down.
>
> The truth finally comes out about how those Lightspeed's "really" got
> broken!

Nope. Strangely enough, it was never the co-pilots position that
broke. Not even once.

I'm glad that episode in LightSpeed's history is over. (Our Twenty 3G
models are absolutely bulletproof.) It's truly amazing they survived
it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jose]

> The Last Messages uses 1000 text messages to tell the story of a
> Finnish executive who quits his job to travel the world, using his phone to
> communicate with friends and relatives at home.

Interesting concept. There is another novel, "The Fan" (published
around or before 1980) and another whose title is something like
"Charring Cross Road" built on a similar premise (though it uses snail
mail). Interesting books.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.