Larry Dighera
June 5th 07, 08:57 PM
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 15:16:52 -0400, BiffClinton
> wrote in
>:
>This debacle represents more documentary proof that Blakey
>and her cronies have utterly destroyed another component of
>the world’s largest, safest air traffic control system. The
>promised savings will never materialize. The bill for
>privatizing this thing just keeps getting bigger and bigger
>while the standards and the services just keep getting
>smaller and smaller. The Marionettes have broken this
>service so completely that it cannot be repaired, and it
>will NEVER be as robust as it once was. Maybe it’s time to
>rebaseline it, eh, Marion?
>
>Another Blakey screw-up. **YAWN** Imagine my surprise.
>Those are more regular than a Metamucil shake with a
>Fibercon chaser. But what does all this mean? What does it
>mean for Mom and Pop in their airplane? PLENTY.
>
>http://themainbang.typepad.com/blog/2007/05/you_asked_for_i_1.html
Just so this article remains in the archive:
May 29, 2007
You Asked For It, And You Got It
The nation’s general aviation pilots are gnashing their teeth due to
critical meltdowns of the normally robust flight service station
handling they have been accustomed to receiving, and to that, I say:
Tough noogies. For those in the GA ranks who are members of AOPA,
thank your president, Phil Boyer for the crappy service you are
getting and pray that it is only an inconvenience and not a
“contributing factor.”
You see, Phil was one of the loudest among many shrill voices calling
for privatization of all Flight Service Stations a few years ago, and
he led AOPA to strongly supporting the initiative on Capitol Hill.
Phil spent his member's money lobbying congress in support of the
privatization of Flight Service, fighting the employee unions in the
process. NATCA fought it. NAATS fought it. But AOPA cozied up to
the Administrator, and armed with her buddy Phil’s support, Marion
Blakey embarked on the largest privatization of government work in
history.
Some of the sunshine Marion blew up AOPA's skirt was a promise that
phone calls would be answered in twenty seconds, radio calls would be
answered in five seconds, flight plans would be entered in three
minutes and urgent pireps would be entered within fifteen seconds.
And how has it turned out? Screwed up with a capital “F,” if you know
what I mean. Long hold times. Dropped calls. Incompetent briefers.
Software snafus. Bogus weather reports. And who do you think was the
first one to whine and belly-ache? None other than Phil Boyer…the one
who escorted all the ugly hookers into town in the first place.
Lockheed Martin, the contractor responsible for the privatization
effort, has gone back to the FAA to ask for an additional 10% (or
something like 177 million dollars,) alleging the agency lied when
they were negotiating the first deal. (Editor’s note: Hey , LM…don’t
act stupid. You were at the negotiating table with the FAA? And you
didn’t know they were lying to you??? What are you, in third grade??)
The FAA is pretending to care, although Marion Blakey wouldn’t know a
flight plan if it bopped her upside her little pumpkin head. Her
Deputy Dog, Bobby Sturgell is a lawyer, a pilot and a management drone
(or as controllers say, “Strike one, strike two, strike three, yer
out,”) so he’s not going to be any help. Maybe they can get some old
FSS specialists to bail them out.
And that’s precisely what they are going to try to do, along with the
tired old Bush Administration formula…..a “surge in troops.” This,
from the AOPA website: “Pilot complaints have become legion. Hold
times are excessive. Pilots who had been on hold for 20 or 30 minutes
will sometimes find their call inexplicably dropped. Flight plans
aren't filed into the system. Pilots are routed to briefers who don't
know the local area and can't find information specific to the pilot's
route of flight. Airport managers can't file notams to alert pilots
to runway closures or lighting outages. Scores of pilots told AOPA
that they can't raise flight service on the radio to get updated
weather information or to open or close a flight plan. In the last
two weeks, the system crashed three times, with the longest outage
lasting more than an hour.”
“The following Monday, Blakey called in senior Lockheed Martin
mangers. They promised a new set of initiatives to fix the problems,
including new software updates for the FS21 system, fixing the
automated phone switch, offering temporary positions to retired flight
service specialists, "surge" staffing to cover peak workload periods,
more staff training, and better communication to the pilot community.”
So. Boyer the politician and Blakey the politician have screwed this
pooch badly. They seriously shafted thousands of FSS employees,
shoving many of them out the door just weeks or months from
retirement. And now they want these former employees to come in on a
temporary basis and bail them out? If you are reading this, and you
are ex-FSS, and they offer you a position, do your sense of self-worth
and integrity a favor and give them a two word answer that ends with,
“off.”
This debacle represents more documentary proof that Blakey and her
cronies have utterly destroyed another component of the world’s
largest, safest air traffic control system. The promised savings will
never materialize. The bill for privatizing this thing just keeps
getting bigger and bigger while the standards and the services just
keep getting smaller and smaller. The Marionettes have broken this
service so completely that it cannot be repaired, and it will NEVER be
as robust as it once was. Maybe it’s time to rebaseline it, eh,
Marion?
Another Blakey screw-up. **YAWN** Imagine my surprise. Those are
more regular than a Metamucil shake with a Fibercon chaser. But what
does all this mean? What does it mean for Mom and Pop in their
airplane? PLENTY.
The following are comments from pilots who have written to an AOPA BBS
to complain about the privatization of Flight Service. Let’s
eavesdrop on their sorrow, and then check out my closing commentary at
the end:
1. I tried to call FSS this weekend from Austin and got a briefer in
Tennessee. what a disaster. I might as well have called my mother. He
was totally unfamiliar with airports in Texas, where I was trying to
go, facilities here. He was hunting and pecking around his equipment
as he tried to put together a decent briefing. I think he was
embarrassed. At one point he even said, "I'm sorry. I am not familiar
with the airways, airports, and locations of restricted areas in Texas
and it is difficult to give you a coherent briefing." Is this what we
can expect from user fees? I usually use the computer, but on this
day, the weather was reasonably good. I just wanted a simple weather
update and briefing for a 150 mile flight from Dallas to Austin.
Geeeessh
2. There are a couple other threads like this already, but yes -
that's standard service now. You're lucky you even got to a briefer.
The system is a complete useless disaster. When coming home from the
ADIZ to Boston last week I had to give up on a decent briefing - the
guy didn't know anything.
3. I called FSS from Binghamton, NY 10 days ago. I got a briefer in
Fort Worth, TX. He didn't know anything about the NY State area. This
is one of the broken promises from Lockheed-Martin, that they would
have trained personnel knowledgeable of the areas from which calls
were forwarded to remote locations. I wasted 20 minutes on the phone,
half of it holding while he could "get me the right info." The Buffalo
FSS which normally would handle calls from the
Binghamton/Ithaca/Elmira area is "temporarily" closed slated to be
permanently closed soon.
4. Briefers missed telling me about the fires and the TFR near
Waycross, GA a week or so ago. Waycross was very close to my intended
route of travel. I learned about it from center controllers and
actually landed at Waycross, slightly north of the TFR.
5. Yes, a failed attempt to contact 1-800-WX-Brief occurred two weeks
ago. I was on hold over 10 minutes on a clear blue, 50 mi+ visibility
day in the northeast. All I wanted was a NOTAM brief for P-40. I
finally gave up and hung up. The "new FAA services" are worse now than
ever. They just are not reliable.
6. This is "deja-vu" all over again! When I was getting my ratings
in the late 80s was the first round of closing and consolidation. We
used to go in person to the FSS at MLB for briefings. They were great.
WX reports were great because of so many knowledgeablew local
observers. Then came 1-800-WX-SUXX and it was a disaster at first.
They would tell me it was CAVU at MLB when it was pouring down rain.
Wait times were so long to close a flight plan half the time they had
a SAR inititiated before you could get through. I finally just listed
the destination FBO as a contact #, told the people at the FBO to say
I was fine when FSS called, and quite even trying to close the flight
plans. Here we go again.
7. I tried to get a briefing at 7am Sunday morning. Beautiful CAVU
day. After 5 minutes on hold, I finally gave up. A buddy of mine had a
similar experience on Saturday morning. He was unable to close his VFR
flight plan after landing because he could never get through to a
person - just endless waiting on hold.
8. A while back someone posted a list here of FSS closings and
consolodations. I asked my briefer at that time what was up with the
temporary closing at MCN this month. He told me that they would be up
at the main office up north training while their equipment was being
upgraded. He told me not to worry, I probably wouldn't even notice the
difference.
He was wrong. I was on hold for 12 minutes listening to the music fade
in and out before someone picked up. The briefer I got was totally
disorganized, didn't know where DNL was, and said after finally
getting my info entered, said: "Now let's see what comes out when I
press the magic button." Sounded very professional...NOT!
After the weather, I had to ask for TFRs and NOTAMS and ask again for
LNOTAMS. Silly me. I thought they came with a standard briefing. I
can't wait for the MCN regulars to get back on the job. (Silly
you…they’re never coming back. Thanks again, Phil.)
9. I tried getting a weather briefing yesterday while I drove out to
the airport (KCXO - Conroe, TX). I was on hold for well over 10
minutes. When I got a briefer on the phone, I told her that all I
needed was the winds aloft. She asked me if I was aware that the
conditions were IFR in the area. I looked again at the clear skies as
far as I could see and said that I was not aware. She began pulling up
the terminal reports for the surrounding area and sure enough - all
clear below 12000. The forecast winds at 3000 were spot on, though.
10. Last week I filed two VFR flight plans through DUATS for a
two-airplane CAP flight. We managed to get the flight plans open ok,
but then when approaching the destination airport, both airplanes
tried numerous times to raise FSS on the radio to close the flight
plans - no response. So, on the ground, we called FSS and got put on
hold for so long that we gave up. Finally got through to a nearby
tower and had them use their hotline to FSS to cancel for us. Next
time we'll file IFR.
11. I have had a few days of extreme hold times when calling in for a
briefing or just to file a flight plan. I gave up after 17 minutes on
hold the other day and just flew home without a briefing. I thought
that all of this privitization was supposed to prevent hold times
being on the level of this.
12. If they train pilots to not even try calling that should lower
the call volume and hold times.
13. Have had long holds AND a couple of "we don't show anything on
file" as I'm climbing out of an uncontrolled field... Definitely not
the same as what it was. You never know where the FSS is when you call
in, and most aren't familiar with the local area to give good tips on
preferred routes as they use to. Guess we had a good thing and didn't
know it, at the time.
14. Hold for 15 min yesterday for a VFR briefing about North Georgia.
I guess some pilots will take off without weather briefing now. Too
bad. Never happened to me before.
15. Could not even get through to Nashville FSS last Friday. Just got
a busy signal. I gave up, used the internet to check TFR's, and flew.
16. You know...a lot of people complain (myself included) about how
the "government" screws things up. Well in a way they did, but in this
instance it is the *private* money-driven company that is screwing
things up. I just do not see the reason for the crazy drive to
privatize EVERYTHING that is going on in the government today.
17. The Cessna Pilots Association website this morning shows the
wholesale shutting down of the majority of the FSS stations. Grim
stuff, that in all likelyhood, will lead to precipitous decline in the
quaility of the service.
18. I have been flying since 1977 and never had to wait more than a
minute or 2 for FSS and I live in CA which no doubt has a heavy load.
But this week, I had to hangup twice for very long holds
(>15minutes)... Is this an intentiona nationwide slowdown? Has
Lockheed gone bellyup on this?
19. Hmmmm, since we are obligated to "get all the related information
possible" (my quotes) before conducting a flight, does that mean if we
go without getting FSS breifing, and we have a problem, we are hung
out to dry?
20. I've gotten to the point that I dont bother calling them anymore.
For the last few months, my local FSS (McAlester, OK) has been
terrible. A two year old could do a better job then they've been
doing. I dont have the time to sit on hold for 15 minutes waiting on
them to pull their heads out of their a$$es and decide to get around
to me. With all the information that is available on the internet now,
with DUATS and other Wx and flight planning sites, I get better info
and dont have to wait for it. That information, coupled with the
in-flight info I get from my 396 makes calling FSS a mute point for me
anymore. They can all close down as far as I'm concerned, and LM can
choke on it.
21. I now use www.weathertap.com exclusively for wx briefing. They
are now a qualified weather briefer by the FAA (QICP I think is the
acronym). $80 a month and a GREAT product with a lot of data.
22. I am just sick of the privatization of EVERYTHING that seems to
be going on in the government today.
23. So it may be a bit more expensive to have the separate stations,
it also is much more beneficial from a safety/local knowledge
standpoint.
24. I am REALLY ticked at the Bush administration right now and I
voted for the guy, twice! (no I was not turning this into a general
politics rant, just trying to show that even someone who supported the
Prez is getting frustrated with his privatization kick).
25. Can't agree more with the OP. . . FSS is indeed broke! I departed
Ferguson Field (82J) in Pensacola, FL on Friday evening on my way home
to Hampton Roads Virginia (PVG) for the weekend. Planned stop at Anson
County North Carolina (AFP) for gas. Departed VFR, but air-filed IFR
passing south of Atlanta due to WX. Shot the GPS 34 to mins at AFP at
around 2100 local, got gas, and called FSS to file my final leg home.
It was my first time using FSS in several months. Upon dialing, I get
the voice prompts, choose option 1 for a briefer, then get get asked
to "say which state I was departing from." I remember thinking "wow,
this is great, they finally have the whole call routing system thing
fixed - I'll actually talk to the correct FSS (Raliegh) when calling
from out of state with my cell phone." WRONG!!! My first call was
routed to a FSS in Arizona! The briefer I spoke and filed with was not
only unfamiliar with the local area, but seemed like a non-aviation
kinda' guy fresh off the street and on his first night at the job! I
hung up, got in the plane to depart this uncontrolled field, and
called FSS again to pick up my clearance (no GCO at this field). Once
again stating that I was departing NC, the FSS that picks up this time
is in Michigan! This dude also sounded like he was on his first night
at work, and was utterly useless to talk to. He had no idea how to get
me my clearance. At this point, I hang up with him and look up the
direct number to Raliegh FSS in my AOPA directory I keep on my PDA. I
try dialing this number for 20 minutes only to get a constant busy
signal. I call 800 WX BRIEF once again, state that my departure is
from the state of NC to the voice prompt, and this time the FSS I'm
connected to is in Washington state! This guy was as useless as all
the others I'd spoken to, and could not help me at all. The only thing
he did - and it took him five minutes to do it - was find the direct
number to the Raleigh FSS. Turned out to be the same number I'd been
dialing previously. Still busy. . . By this time, an hour had
transpired from landing, and cielings had lifted to around 1,800'.
Foaming at the mouth, I took off and circled overhead the airport VFR
until I could pick up my clearance from Charlotte departure. This in
itself was a problem, as comms were very poor at that altitude. I was
prepared to land and spend the night if I couldn't get my clearance
airborne.
26. IME, service had actually gotten better when LM took over the FSS
contract. The initial cadre of employees manning a given FSS were
experienced guys that were FAA one day, and LM the next. Wait times
were down and I was happy. Now, it seems like all the experienced guys
have departed and we're left with a bunch of rookies running the show.
27. While I do the vast majority of my flight planning and filing
electronically, there are many times - like the other night - where
FSS is the only game in town. It's sad to see how far downhill they've
gone.
28. The FAA needs to ask for our money back.......for services not
rendered.
So, AOPA…swing by Costco, get a big pallet full of Kleenex, dry your
eyes, and sit right down and have a steaming hot Main Bang Mug full of
STFU. You wanted privatized Flight Service Station functions, you got
‘em. You got EXACTLY what you wanted and EXACTLY what the unions
warned you about. So shut up about it already, and take your
permanently debilitating, self-inflicted, hemmoraging wound like a
man.
And remember…next up is user fees (what could it hurt?), and
privatization of air traffic control (why not? It worked so well for
flight service…and Marion is trading towers and making promises to
bring it home...)
Let history record the following: Phil Boyer helped to lead the
privatization camel’s nose under the FAA tent, and things will never,
ever be the same. They will be worse. Much, much, MUCH worse.
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Comments
Sad to say, the flying public aint seen nothing yet. Wait till all the
experienced controllers are gone. They will find out what a delay is
then. Probably days instead of hours. We tried to tell them.
Posted by: rc | May 29, 2007 at 01:53 PM
FSS is indeed broken. I've switched to self-briefing with DUAT(S)
because calling FSS nowadays simply leaves me more confused than when
I started.
I wasn't ever really a strong supporter of privatization in any form
and now, after this debacle, I'm dead-set against it... why in the
world you would farm out such a safety-critical item to an entity
interested in maximizing profit is beyond me!
Controllers and pilots are unfortunately stuck in the middle. Thank
God for flight following is all I have to say... center has saved my
bacon at least once by pointing out a hot area that I had misread as
being cold.
Posted by: Chad | May 29, 2007 at 01:57 PM
If the flying public only knew what controllers are going through
right now. I dare say they wouldn't even fly. Wait till it is all
privitized. We will then find out what the word delay means then. It
will probably be coounted in days instead of hours. What a crying
shame. Thanks johnny for your courage in keeping the flame. The union
certainly isn't anymore. I guess they (us) don't want to make her mad
at us.
Posted by: rc | May 29, 2007 at 01:58 PM
If the flying public only knew what controllers are going through
right now. I dare say they wouldn't even fly. Wait till it is all
privitized. We will find out what the word delay means then. It will
probably be coounted in days instead of hours. What a crying shame.
Thanks johnny for your courage in keeping the flame. The union
certainly isn't anymore. I guess they (us) don't want to make her mad
at us.
Posted by: rc | May 29, 2007 at 01:59 PM
If the flying public only knew what controllers are going through
right now. I dare say they wouldn't even fly. Wait till it is all
privitized. We will find out what the word delay means then. It will
probably be coounted in days instead of hours. What a crying shame.
Thanks johnny for your courage in keeping the flame. The union
certainly isn't anymore. I guess they (us) don't want to make her
(madam administrator) mad at us.
Posted by: rc | May 29, 2007 at 02:02 PM
Our facility ATM for years has instructed us NOT to enter flight plans
because while doing that we are not watching our movement area and
such. Well now with the current FSS debacle, he has instructed us to
"time permitting enter plans" Uhh let me see watch my planes or put my
head into a computer and enter flight plans? Sorry pilots I can't get
fired for telling you to contcat FSS for flight plan However I WILL
get fired if my head is in computer entering your flight plan and two
smack on the runway! I am with JTB on this one two people to blame.
Marion and your AOPA
President.
Posted by: MIke | May 29, 2007 at 02:50 PM
Phil and the AOPA boys supported Marion's privatization of AFSS
expecting that promised cost savings would stave off any talk of user
fees. SURPRISE! The double whammy! Services suck and you're still
gonna get stuck with a bill! I'll bet you didn't see that one coming.
But, you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till you're billed for ATC
services you can't get because the FAA forgot to hire quality
replacement controller candidates 5 years ago. Revenge is best served
cold!
Posted by: yourekidding | May 29, 2007 at 03:26 PM
"Training in progress" has become the new greeting for the Miami FSS.
80% of the time I've called in the past 6 months it's been some
fresh-faced kid who sounded like they were reading from a script. Yes,
it's very nice to hear a cheerful voice, but I miss the old hats that
used to give the briefings. Some of them were rough around the edges,
but they were consistently professional and knowledgeable.
I'd rather have a total a**hole that had real experience and real
information than a kid who doesn't understand what they're parroting
off to me.
DUATS for me, thank you.
Posted by: JDT | May 29, 2007 at 05:07 PM
Ha ha wait until they start getting briefers in Calcutta.
Posted by: mikey | May 29, 2007 at 08:08 PM
If Mr. Boyer had just one decent bone in his body he'd resign.
Unfortunately he's been in charge so long he feels he's *entitled*.
*Entitled* people do NOT serve their constituents, they serve
themselves.
Just like Marion, Bruce, et. al., ...
Our brothers and sisters in FSS deserved better.
So do our brothers and sisters in PASS.
Our ATA's.
Our newbies.
Our PATCO personnel.
All of us who plugged the *gap* after the strike*.
In the meantime.........
AOPA members, please apply the *TOASY* rule as quickly as possible.
TOASY?
*Take Over And Save Yourselves*
Please.
We both need each other to weather this crisis.
We also need each other to be there when Ms. Blakey pleads her case
with a briefcase full of half truths and lies.
Faithfully yours,
SG
Posted by: safetygrump | May 29, 2007 at 08:27 PM
I'll start by saying I really appreciate your blog and all the stuff
you bring to light.
BUT ... I think that perhaps you've forgotten the old addage "my
enemy's enemy is my friend."
GA pilots and professional pilots alike have been screwed by the FSS
privatization debacle. When I fly unscheduled part 135 flights, I
often have to call FSS to file an IFR flight plan if I need to depart
in less than 30 minutes.
More than once I sat on hold for 20 minutes, trying to get an idea of
just what kind of cumulonimbus I was about to launch into. I usually
just hang up. You can't wait for FSS when the ramp agent is shoving
paperwork in your face and telling you to get off the ramp to make way
for a 727 that just landed.
The thing that unites us is that we're all dedicated to safe flying
and all the services and hard work that make it possible.
Posted by: JR | May 29, 2007 at 10:12 PM
What say ye, Phil? I know you're out there...
Posted by: soontoberetired | May 29, 2007 at 10:31 PM
call me on the freq to file a flight plan, you will get the following
response: contact your company or FSS over and good day!Our SOP say
you SHALL NOT file flight plans....bye bye
Posted by: cyberbot | May 29, 2007 at 10:38 PM
Excellent Post
Phil wanted it now he's got it. All AOPA dues paying members should
ask for his resignation immediately.
I am one of the luck FSS people who found a home at a Tower. However,
many of my hard working and dedicated friends and coworkers were not
so lucky. Yes, we told them privatization was not a good idea but the
fix was in and no matter what anyone did FSS was going to be
privatized. Yes, Phil bought Marion's BS hook line and sinker.
Now Lockheed needs more money (I see the lawsuits now from the other
possible vendors). Your right John, Lockheed is looking for
experienced FSS people to bail them out but for $26 and hour and no
say in their work environment (due to the fact that the current FSS
people refused to vote in a union) I doubt Lockheed will have many
takers. I know what my response would be "pay me what I'm worth and if
you have people with my experience level making on the average $45 an
hour with 5 weeks paid vacation then I want the same."
The only ex FSS people Lockheed will find are the truly mercenary
ones.
I patiently wait for the agency to implode.
Posted by: One of the Lucky Few | May 29, 2007 at 10:59 PM
I need some information. ANYONE at all who has the exact statements
AOPA wrote about the privatization of FSS and anti-NATCA information
please send me a link. I have some friends that don't believe NATCA
because Phil told them that AOPA never wanted them contracted out.
Posted by: LowOnTheFoodChain | May 29, 2007 at 11:38 PM
No doubt AOPA screwed the pooch on this one. Phil needs to look for
something besides a promise from Marion. We retired controllers know
what that's worth....NOTHING!!!!
Posted by: GAPilot | May 30, 2007 at 12:38 AM
When all is said and done, it will cost the taxpayers more with LM
running Flight Service than if it stayed FAA. All the FAA had to do
was install OASIS into the remaining Model 1 stations and maybe
consolidate a few of the small slower stations into an adjacent
station. But the FAA wanted to get rid of Flight Service so bad, they
even had the fix in to help the current administrations friends at LM.
The MEO was the only bidder who came close to meeting the
requirements. They had a workforce in place and an up to date system
that worked. The FAA kept feeding AOPA and the flying public the line
that our equipment was outdated, yes some of it was, but they left out
the part about OASIS and how well it worked. Also, to Mr. Carr, thank
you for giving time and blog space to Flight Service issues!
Posted by: RIF'd AFSS'r | May 30, 2007 at 01:04 AM
LowOnTheFoodChain, red type in these blogs is a link. Click on the
words "one of the loudest" near the top of the blog and it takes you
to an article where Boyer has quite a few quotes about how wonderful
this all would be.
I think JTB is being a bit hard on AOPA MEMBERS as many of them may
not have supported the privatization. Just like I really hate some of
the things the NRA comes out in favor of. But AOPA's leadership? Yeah,
they were warned, and they should have known better and they deserve
the harsh words.
Posted by: DejaVu | May 30, 2007 at 01:06 AM
Here's some statements from Phil on the future privatization of FSS.
Feb. 2005
http://www.atca.org/singlenews.asp?item_ID=2288&comm=0
Posted by: Jeff Cox | May 30, 2007 at 01:07 AM
Hey Cyberbot, your SOP's are correct! You have more urgent and
important work to do than to try to file FP's. They should be filed
before takeoff, or in the case of a FP no longer in the system, filed
on a freq not used for direct control of traffic. It ties up your freq
and endangers other acft. If pilots get ****ed at you, oh well, they
should call good ol' Phil and have him call in their FP!!! I'm sure he
won't mind helping the pilots he "represents"!
Posted by: RIF'd AFSS'r | May 30, 2007 at 01:10 AM
And some congressional testimony from Mica quoting Phil.
http://www.house.gov/mica/fs063005.htm
Phil fought HARD for this
http://www.freelists.org/archives/jyo/02-2005/msg00002.html
The last quote says it all. You pilots are "reaping" something all
right. Doesn't sound like "rewards" though.
Posted by: Jeff Cox | May 30, 2007 at 01:13 AM
After reading Phil's statements, I can't think of one of the
"guarantees" that are being met on a consistant basis! Of course,
local experience and knowledge was the first casualty. I'd give my
pension to hear Phil say "I'm sorry, I was wrong!" Oh yeah, I DON'T
HAVE A PENSION ANYMORE!!! Thanks Phil!!!
Posted by: RIF'd AFSS'r | May 30, 2007 at 01:26 AM
A pilot called me today to request a clearance that he filed during
what he said was a forty-five (45) minute phone call. The flight plan
was nowhere to be found in the computer so I filed it for him courtesy
of the US taxpayer. He was clearly exasperated and I wanted to be sure
he didn't drive his C414 into the tower.
Posted by: lowskillset | May 30, 2007 at 01:34 AM
I wonder if your extra workload is figured into the cost of the AFSS
contract? If you guys spend a total of an hour or so of filing flight
plans during the course of your shift, shouldn't an hours wages be
charged to the AFSS contract? The undocumented "costs" are your extra
workload, delays caused by having to file fp's, etc. Us ex FAAers do
appreciate your understanding throuh this debacle. We are trying our
best with a system that does not work on a consistant basis. It's
really unsafe. The other night I was working the inflight position and
the little voice in my head said it was too quiet. I had an Approach
Control get me a few radio checks and I found out that my radios
weren't working. I moved to a different work station and they worked
fine. I had no indication at the first work station that my radios
were not working. Safety issue? You Bet!!! What if I had an emergency
call then? How many pilots called for WX updates but I didn't hear
them?
Posted by: RIF'd AFSS'r | May 30, 2007 at 01:51 AM
Not to be a D%@K Head, but I don't enter flight plans, period. Sure, I
feel for the pilots--but every FAA ATCS that "comes to the rescue" is
just making the system work, and the truth about how this BS is
working (IT ISN'T) gets delayed. I'm happy to provide the phone # to
the LM FSS complaint line, however.....
Posted by: MANY years to retirement... | May 30, 2007 at 03:07 AM
One quick point on the extra money Lockheed is asking for from the
FAA:
When the bidders on the AFSS contract were adding up their costs in
order to put in their bid one of the largest figures was employee
compensation. They had agreed to save pay for all former FSS
personnel, but what about new hires? The existing Dept. of Labor Wage
Determination said they had to pay at least $54,000 per year, but that
WD had obvious flaws and a new one had been in the works for over 4
years at that point. Since being able to predict your labor costs is
critical to the amount of your bid the FAA included language in the
A76 process to the effect that should the new WD raise the minimum
salary level that the additional cost would be added to the contract
price. This was part of the A76 process and it applied to ALL the
vendors, including the MEO.
Last year the new WD was released and specified a minimum slalry of
$74,00. Did the FAA pay up? Nope. They appealed, lost, appealed again,
lost again, and now refuse to pay.
While the FAA's failure to honor their legal agreement doesn't
surprise me in the least, the point is that Lockheed isn't asking for
the money for themselves - it's for ALL employees making less than the
new minimum, which includes many ex-FSS people, for a pay raise
retroactive to October 3, 2006.
While I can't say I approve of everything Lockheed is doing, on this
one they're the good guys.
Posted by: ExATC | May 30, 2007 at 08:55 AM
We can all blame it on hypoxia. The higher you go in management the
thiner the air gets. Brain dead people making life threatning
decisions all to save a buck!! I would hope Boyer would be man enough
to do the right thing and resign and migrate away from GA politics.
The FAA is a legal criminal "organzation" and anyone who beleives what
they say is just as much at fault!
Posted by: just a citizen | May 30, 2007 at 09:21 AM
A minimum of $74,000 salary for AFSS employees?
Where the heck was the Dept. of Labor Wage Determination when Marion
set pay for new AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS at $31,000/year? It's amazing
that we still have some new hires willing to work for slave wages. I'm
sure it is because they are hoping and praying the pay scales get
fixed sooner rather than later. If not, they are going to figure out
in short order they can make the same or better wages being a manager
of a fast food restaurant. And not have to worry about having lives in
their hands every day.
Marion Blakey has engineered the equivalent of a 9/11 attack on the U.
S. national airspace system. Phil Boyer has aided and abetted this.
They both need to go, sooner rather than later.
Posted by: CSM4 | May 30, 2007 at 10:57 AM
{I now use www.weathertap.com exclusively for wx briefing. They are
now a qualified weather briefer by the FAA (QICP I think is the
acronym). $80 a month and a GREAT product with a lot of data.}
Sucker! That is exactly what Marion wants you to do. Pay more for
safety-related information that the federal government should make
available to you at no additional cost other than your taxes.
Keep that credit card out, friend. You'll soon need it every time you
key the mike.
Posted by: CSM4 | May 30, 2007 at 11:02 AM
Amen brother
Posted by: rc | May 30, 2007 at 02:25 PM
Good ol' Phil seems to like kool-aid too.
Posted by: tt | May 30, 2007 at 02:29 PM
I agree 100% on what someone wrote above. WE AS CONTROLLERS SHOULD NOT
BE FILING FLIGHT PLANS FOR ANYONE ! PERIOD !! I don't, I wont, and I
will only say, "N123 your flight plan is not stored and you need to
refile with FSS". I REFUSE to file flight plans after September 2nd.
I'm sick of controllers that bitch about the IWR's were all working
under, but still seem to do business as usual. KNOCK IT OFF !! I do
the bare minimum, and our Sup's even support are bare minimum posture
!!
Posted by: xing | May 30, 2007 at 04:37 PM
Exactly what did NATCA do to help Flight Service? SQUAT! In fact your
union actions prevented many fellow ATCS's from realizing retirement.
You make me sick pretending to be a friend of flight service now that
your own castle is under siege.
SCREW YOU.
You never took the time to learn what we did. Your graduates who moved
up in the agency continued to believe that PWB's and FP's defined the
entirety of service FSS provided. A-76 tried to tell you there was
more, but you didn't listen.
Shame on you NATCA, AOPA and the rest of the FAA.
Posted by: Bullpoop Carr | May 31, 2007 at 02:44 AM
I'm a former AFSS AO sold to LM in October, 2005. They closed my AFSS
a couple of weeks ago. The DAY AFTER we closed, Lockheed called ALL of
the specialists and supervisors and offered them jobs at the nearest
FS21 hub to help them out. NO ONE accepted!!
Posted by: FormerAFSSAO | June 01, 2007 at 09:39 AM
Well, as someone who worked on the MEO's (in-house FAA team) failed
bid to retain the FSS, I'm sort-of cheering the problems that LM and
the FAA are seeing (but I really feel for the pilots that get the
short end of the stick). I'm glad to see so many people finally
speaking out about the problems this particular privatization debacle
is bringing.
On the other hand, the problem is entirely the FAA's own making. Even
if the MEO had won the A-76 contest, it would have also been
super-consolidating the FSS system. I know the hardware/software would
have worked (because OASIS works today) and the original team of
people would have been the old group that has had the experience to
continue to provide flight service. However, the "local knowledge"
part was going to go because of the FAA's heavy-handed determination
to toss the existing system.
Why is it that no one has considered all of the money the FAA spent
developing and deploying the OASIS system? That money represents a
sunk investment that was tossed out with the bath water. If the rest
of the AFSS's had gotten OASIS equipment, then NO ONE COULD HAVE
CLAIMED THAT FSS WAS USING ANTIQUATED 1970's SYSTEMS TO RUN FSS!
The way I figure it, the LM deal has already lost us taxpayers a
couple hundred million $$ because we're ditching all the effort the
FAA put into developing OASIS. So I guess I'm starting to see how it's
the "Marionettes" that cause the FAA to waste money, not the FSS
system, not ATC, not even the unions.
{I now use www.weathertap.com exclusively for wx briefing. They are
now a qualified weather briefer by the FAA (QICP I think is the
acronym).}
You were sold another bill of goods! QICP only means that the FAA
believes the content will be transmitted safely over the Internet, but
does not mean the FAA has "certified" the briefing contents itself.
Other than the two DUAT vendors, none of the "QICP weather providers"
have had any testing to determine that they meet ANY required
standards for content and completeness of the weather briefing,
retention of data for Search and Rescue, or for interface
compatibility with the NAS (to ensure that your flight plans get
through, for example).
Posted by: bb | June 01, 2007 at 10:00 AM
Sorry to hear this has gone so badly. We must not let them do the same
thing to the air traffic controllers. It would be much, much worse.
Good luck
Posted by: F. Lundy, Salinas, CA | June 05, 2007 at 11:15 AM
Once again John, you hit the nail squarely on the head. I cut up my
AOPA card and sent it back to Boyer with a thanks, but no thanks
comment...
Mike Gonzales
Professional Airways Systems Specialists (PASS)
Posted by: Michael C. Gonzales | June 05, 2007 at 12:29 PM
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