question about lightning

[gatt]

Flew round trip from Troutdale, OR to Coeur d'Alene Idaho last night in a
PA-28R and hit a weather system that was reported to be much further south.
The weather brief mentioned isolated thunderstorms that would dissipate
after sunset.

To make a long story short, the weather turned ugly and between Spokane and
Tri-Cities I filed a PIREP noting that there was lighting bursting once per
minute or more from the cloud layer directly on the victor airway, and much
more activity developing to the north. Meanwhile, a SIGMET had been issued
further south reporting hail 1" in diameter. Not going that way...

I could see the lights of the city ahead and two giant murky areas which I
avoided. No rain, but as I was filing the PIREP lightning started blazing
on either side of me, ahead of me, and arcing and corksscrewing over the top
of me from cloud to cloud. Meanwhile, all the ATIS and AWOS reported calm
winds and unrestricted visibility and the FSS reported nothing on the radar
in my way. I noticed that the lightning was coming from three distinct
clouds, all moving north, and I could see Tri-Cities between them so I
observed the hole for awhile to make sure it wasn't going to close on me,
figured out with the DME about how long it would take me to get past them,
checked the chart to make sure it was safe to deviate from the airway at
altitude, set the throttle a little higher and ran the gauntlet without
further problem except for the occasional unnerving flash of lightning
behind me somewhere. Took all the fun out of the flight, though.

Question: Anybody ever been hit by lightning in a small plane? What
happens?

-c

[Brian[_1_]]

A friend of mine tells me that he one had lighting flash nearby in his
Glassair III. It was close enough to shut down all the electronics in
the aircraft. Radios, GPS, Etc all shutdown. The magnetos kept going
just fine and he says he is really glad he hadn't installed electronic
ignition.

After a few minutes he recycled the power on the electronics and
everything came back up.
------------

I have the May 2002 Soaring Magazine on my desk. It has an article
about a sailplane that was hit by lighting. The pilot describes it as
"There was a momentary white-out and I found myself instinctively
hunched down in the cockpit of my glider with the wind in my face."
At 1st the pilot thought maybe his Oxygen bottle had exploded or he
had had a Mid-air collision. The pilot described the airplane as
flying normally, even thought the canopy was missing, but the controls
felt "Lumpy". He was able to land the glider normally.

Here are some excerpts from the article.

"The post mortem of the glider showed that the canopy had exploded
outward (not a single piece of loose Plexiglass was found in the
cockpit)" , " The fuselage underside was split from the nose back to
the main wheel", " The burning smell was the vaporized grounding cable
from the towhook to the rudder pedal assembly, and my scorched shoes
and socks.", " The control rod bearings throughtout the glider had
been temporarily welded together, and had then broken loose (that's
why the controls felt 'Lumpy'" "The cockpit and fuselage had been
overpressurized by heated air causing the canopy to explode outward
and the fuselage to split"

Be careful out there.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

[[email protected]]

Composite airframes are a special case. Metal airframes can easily
handle it, maybe just damaging fiberglass tips and doing stuff to
avionics also.

F--

[Al G[_2_]]

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> Flew round trip from Troutdale, OR to Coeur d'Alene Idaho last night in a
> PA-28R and hit a weather system that was reported to be much further
> south. The weather brief mentioned isolated thunderstorms that would
> dissipate after sunset.
>
> To make a long story short, the weather turned ugly and between Spokane
> and Tri-Cities I filed a PIREP noting that there was lighting bursting
> once per minute or more from the cloud layer directly on the victor
> airway, and much more activity developing to the north. Meanwhile, a
> SIGMET had been issued further south reporting hail 1" in diameter. Not
> going that way...
>
> I could see the lights of the city ahead and two giant murky areas which I
> avoided. No rain, but as I was filing the PIREP lightning started blazing
> on either side of me, ahead of me, and arcing and corksscrewing over the
> top of me from cloud to cloud. Meanwhile, all the ATIS and AWOS reported
> calm winds and unrestricted visibility and the FSS reported nothing on the
> radar in my way. I noticed that the lightning was coming from three
> distinct clouds, all moving north, and I could see Tri-Cities between them
> so I observed the hole for awhile to make sure it wasn't going to close on
> me, figured out with the DME about how long it would take me to get past
> them, checked the chart to make sure it was safe to deviate from the
> airway at altitude, set the throttle a little higher and ran the gauntlet
> without further problem except for the occasional unnerving flash of
> lightning behind me somewhere. Took all the fun out of the flight,
> though.
>
> Question: Anybody ever been hit by lightning in a small plane? What
> happens?
>
> -c
>
>
>
>

I've been hit in a C-182, and in a P-3.

The 182 hit was on a low altitude trip across S. Oregon. We had very
strong St Elmo's fire on the windshield, and the prop looked like a large
blue circle. There was a pretty bright flash, not really blinding, and the
fire was replaced by a whistling noise. We found a small hole in the lower
right side of the windshield right at the trim line, after landing. No radio
or electrical problems.

The P-3 was hit in the left horizontal stabilizer, where it blew a 5/8
inch hole. I think the Nav Light CB popped, and we heard a loud pop. No
radio or electrical problems there either.

On a related note, an ex student of mine once flew a C182 through a 60+
KVA power line on approach to the Winnemucca Nv. airport. He knocked out
lights to the airport as well as the west side of town. The 182 briefly made
a circuit between the departing ends of the cut wire. There were numerous
burn marks and holes in the Fuselage, and every piece of skin was "welded"
to the adjacent skin. The aircraft continue to fly with a now blinded pilot,
and touched down just short of the runway full power and behind the power
curve. As the airplane ran up the embankment leading to the runway, the
pilot realized he was on the ground, chopped the power and let go of the
yoke. The plane crossed the threshold, did a nose stand on the spinner, and
flopped upside down on the numbers. No one was injured. The radios and
lighting still worked. The airport manager I talked to described driving
down I-80 when there was a "nuclear" flash and he was blinded.
When he got stopped on the freeway, as his eyes were adjusting, he could
hear other cars all skidding to a stop.


Al G

[gatt]

"Brian" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> "The post mortem of the glider showed that the canopy had exploded outward
> (not a single piece of loose Plexiglass was found in the
> cockpit)" , " The fuselage underside was split from the nose back to the
> main wheel", " The burning smell was the vaporized grounding cable
> from the towhook to the rudder pedal assembly, and my scorched shoes and
> socks.", " The control rod bearings throughtout the glider had
> been temporarily welded together, and had then broken loose (that's why
> the controls felt 'Lumpy'" "The cockpit and fuselage had been
> overpressurized by heated air causing the canopy to explode outward and
> the fuselage to split"
>
> Be careful out there.

Uh....

I don't think I better share that one with my wife. Thanks, though.

I'd have landed but automated weather at the nearest airfield was reporting
wind at 18 gusting to 28, not lined up with the runway. Uncontrolled field,
small strip, night, never been there, didn't have a diagram in the
facilities directory.

Got through it by thinking that perhaps this is a slight taste of what every
combat pilot ever experienced and remembering what my grandfather said about
flak, which is that it was there and there was little else to do but ride it
out. Definately a learning experience. (Seattle radio reported no
significant weather activity there when I activated my flight plan.)

-c

[gatt]

> wrote in message
ps.com...
> Composite airframes are a special case. Metal airframes can easily
> handle it, maybe just damaging fiberglass tips and doing stuff to
> avionics also.

Okay, I WILL share that one with my wife. :>

-c

[gatt]

"Al G" > wrote in message
...

>The aircraft continue to fly with a now blinded pilot, and touched down
>just short of the runway full power and behind the power curve. As the
>airplane ran up the embankment leading to the runway, the pilot realized he
>was on the ground, chopped the power and let go of the yoke. The plane
>crossed the threshold, did a nose stand on the spinner, and flopped upside
>down on the numbers.

If that ever happens to me, I'm switching to skateboarding.

-c

[[email protected]]

On Jun 4, 9:30 am, "gatt" > wrote:
> Flew round trip from Troutdale, OR to Coeur d'Alene Idaho last night in a
> PA-28R and hit a weather system that was reported to be much further south.
> The weather brief mentioned isolated thunderstorms that would dissipate
> after sunset.
>
> To make a long story short, the weather turned ugly and between Spokane and
> Tri-Cities I filed a PIREP noting that there was lighting bursting once per
> minute or more from the cloud layer directly on the victor airway, and much
> more activity developing to the north. Meanwhile, a SIGMET had been issued
> further south reporting hail 1" in diameter. Not going that way...
>
> I could see the lights of the city ahead and two giant murky areas which I
> avoided. No rain, but as I was filing the PIREP lightning started blazing
> on either side of me, ahead of me, and arcing and corksscrewing over the top
> of me from cloud to cloud. Meanwhile, all the ATIS and AWOS reported calm
> winds and unrestricted visibility and the FSS reported nothing on the radar
> in my way. I noticed that the lightning was coming from three distinct
> clouds, all moving north, and I could see Tri-Cities between them so I
> observed the hole for awhile to make sure it wasn't going to close on me,
> figured out with the DME about how long it would take me to get past them,
> checked the chart to make sure it was safe to deviate from the airway at
> altitude, set the throttle a little higher and ran the gauntlet without
> further problem except for the occasional unnerving flash of lightning
> behind me somewhere. Took all the fun out of the flight, though.
>
> Question: Anybody ever been hit by lightning in a small plane? What
> happens?
>
> -c

Avionics are typically designed to handle lightning induced
transients. Many of them use transorbs on inputs and power, and as a
result, a strong transient can trip the circuit breakers and cause the
equipment to turn off. Likewise the breaker in the alternator can be
tripped as well.

If you lose equipment after a lightning strike, you might want to
first cycle the alternator (may be a separate switch or part of the
master switch), and then check all your circuit breakers. Be careful
when re-engaging circuit breakers in case a piece of equipment was
damaged...

[Al G[_2_]]

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Al G" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>The aircraft continue to fly with a now blinded pilot, and touched down
>>just short of the runway full power and behind the power curve. As the
>>airplane ran up the embankment leading to the runway, the pilot realized
>>he was on the ground, chopped the power and let go of the yoke. The plane
>>crossed the threshold, did a nose stand on the spinner, and flopped upside
>>down on the numbers.
>
> If that ever happens to me, I'm switching to skateboarding.
>
> -c
>
That was, more or less, the recommendation of his first 4 flight
instructors, myself included. More money than brains prevailed. Last I
heard, he was still alive, through no fault of his own.

Al G

[gatt]

"Al G" > wrote in message
...

\>> If that ever happens to me, I'm switching to skateboarding.
>>

> That was, more or less, the recommendation of his first 4 flight
> instructors, myself included. More money than brains prevailed. Last I
> heard, he was still alive, through no fault of his own.


Hey, that would be a great thread of its own: How often do instructors tell
students that they're just not cut out for flying?

-c

[Mike Schumann]

An ASK21 glider was hit by lightning in the UK a number of years ago. The
accident report can be found at:

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_500699.pdf

It is an absolute miracle that both pilots survived this incident. The
accident report is a must read for anyone thinking of flying anywhere near a
thunderstorm. Of particular interest is the description of the hollow
aluminum aileron push rod, which was imploded into a solid bar by the
magnetic field of the lightning's current that was conducted by the bar
inside the wing structure. This really generates some respect for the
forces at play in this kind of weather.

Mike Schumann

"Brian" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> A friend of mine tells me that he one had lighting flash nearby in his
> Glassair III. It was close enough to shut down all the electronics in
> the aircraft. Radios, GPS, Etc all shutdown. The magnetos kept going
> just fine and he says he is really glad he hadn't installed electronic
> ignition.
>
> After a few minutes he recycled the power on the electronics and
> everything came back up.
> ------------
>
> I have the May 2002 Soaring Magazine on my desk. It has an article
> about a sailplane that was hit by lighting. The pilot describes it as
> "There was a momentary white-out and I found myself instinctively
> hunched down in the cockpit of my glider with the wind in my face."
> At 1st the pilot thought maybe his Oxygen bottle had exploded or he
> had had a Mid-air collision. The pilot described the airplane as
> flying normally, even thought the canopy was missing, but the controls
> felt "Lumpy". He was able to land the glider normally.
>
> Here are some excerpts from the article.
>
> "The post mortem of the glider showed that the canopy had exploded
> outward (not a single piece of loose Plexiglass was found in the
> cockpit)" , " The fuselage underside was split from the nose back to
> the main wheel", " The burning smell was the vaporized grounding cable
> from the towhook to the rudder pedal assembly, and my scorched shoes
> and socks.", " The control rod bearings throughtout the glider had
> been temporarily welded together, and had then broken loose (that's
> why the controls felt 'Lumpy'" "The cockpit and fuselage had been
> overpressurized by heated air causing the canopy to explode outward
> and the fuselage to split"
>
> Be careful out there.
>
> Brian
> CFIIG/ASEL
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

On Jun 4, 10:30 am, "gatt" > wrote:
> Flew round trip from Troutdale, OR to Coeur d'Alene Idaho last night in a
> PA-28R and hit a weather system that was reported to be much further south.
> The weather brief mentioned isolated thunderstorms that would dissipate
> after sunset.
>
> To make a long story short, the weather turned ugly and between Spokane and
> Tri-Cities I filed a PIREP noting that there was lighting bursting once per
> minute or more from the cloud layer directly on the victor airway, and much
> more activity developing to the north. Meanwhile, a SIGMET had been issued
> further south reporting hail 1" in diameter. Not going that way...
>
> I could see the lights of the city ahead and two giant murky areas which I
> avoided. No rain, but as I was filing the PIREP lightning started blazing
> on either side of me, ahead of me, and arcing and corksscrewing over the top
> of me from cloud to cloud. Meanwhile, all the ATIS and AWOS reported calm
> winds and unrestricted visibility and the FSS reported nothing on the radar
> in my way. I noticed that the lightning was coming from three distinct
> clouds, all moving north, and I could see Tri-Cities between them so I
> observed the hole for awhile to make sure it wasn't going to close on me,
> figured out with the DME about how long it would take me to get past them,
> checked the chart to make sure it was safe to deviate from the airway at
> altitude, set the throttle a little higher and ran the gauntlet without
> further problem except for the occasional unnerving flash of lightning
> behind me somewhere. Took all the fun out of the flight, though.
>
> Question: Anybody ever been hit by lightning in a small plane? What
> happens?
>
> -c

I was on a ferry flight in a C-150 with a 150 Lyc headed across AZ/NM
when I saw severe weather ahead and north in the area of Lordsburg.
The winds on the ground were blowing the dust so strongly it appeared
like water flowing over the ground. I deviated south slightly to pass
around the heavy rain when I was surrounded by what I can only
describe as a "spider web" of lighting and was violently rolled upside
down. It sounded like someone fired a rifle right alongside my ear and
the hair was standing straight out all over my body. I managed to
continue the rolling motion to rightside up and continued the flight
after stuffing my heart back into my chest cavity. I didn't lose any
electrical and no signs of any damage when I landed for fuel at El
Paso.
On another occasion, a friend of mine was flying a C-402 near
Indianapolis with several corporate pax on board. He had just topped
off and was climbing out on an IFR departure when he took a lightning
strike that apparently hit the ADF antenna, traveled thru the airframe
and exited out the bottom of the right tip tank. He declared a Mayday
and landed back at Indianapolis without further incident. There was a
black spot the size of a half dollar that went from gray at the
outside to a pinpoint black in the center where fuel was leaking out
slowly. He too reported it sounded like a rifle shot going off and his
hair stood straight out.
Last summer I was crop dusting with helicopter in northern Minnesota
and had just taken on a partial load of water to rinse out my system
when my loader waved his arms and pointed to my rear. I was sitting on
top of the loading truck platform with the blades turning at idle. I
opened the door and looked to the rear and saw a nearly solid black
wall about to hit us. I couldn't get the blades back up to speed fast
enough to fly off the truck so had to sit there while the storm came
by. There were numerous lightning strikes all around us and several
within 200 yards. The wind was howling at about 50kts and the heavy
rain was blowing into the cockpit from the rear. I was actually flying
the blades and hoping I didn't get blown off the truck. Finally the
cell blew on thru after about :10-15 min and I was able to fly off the
truck and head back to the heliport base. Again, a thorough inspection
showed no apparent damage and I don't believe I got any strikes that
time.
Ol S&B
Soaring Buzzard
Infamous Worldwide pilot/instructor

[gatt]

"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>

> I deviated south slightly to pass
> around the heavy rain when I was surrounded by what I can only
> describe as a "spider web" of lighting and was violently rolled upside
> down.

Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)

-c

[Mark Hansen]

On 06/05/07 09:45, gatt wrote:
> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>
>> I deviated south slightly to pass
>> around the heavy rain when I was surrounded by what I can only
>> describe as a "spider web" of lighting and was violently rolled upside
>> down.
>
> Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
> attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)
>

Would that be different from "unusual attitude recovery"?


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Stefan]

gatt schrieb:

> Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
> attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)

If you have to ask, then the only viable procedure in any aircraft is:
Stick and rudder fully against the side where the outside is blue.

There are other possibilities, but only advisable for those who don't
have to ask. All others would quickly find themselves wit the wings
ripped off or other inconveniences.

[gatt]

"Mark Hansen" > wrote in message
...

>> Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
>> attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)
>>
>
> Would that be different from "unusual attitude recovery"?

Bit more unusual of an attitude than what's one the average checkride.

My theories are:

1) Reboot the computer
2) 150s are pretty light, so just hop out and see if you can flip it over
3) Call technical support.
4) Stall to induce a spin and then recover from the spin normally.
5) Try to get hit by another bold of lightning to flip the plane over
6) Cut power, pull back to pitch the airplane nose down and then pull out
without stalling.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

gatt wrote:
> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>
>> I deviated south slightly to pass
>> around the heavy rain when I was surrounded by what I can only
>> describe as a "spider web" of lighting and was violently rolled upside
>> down.
>
> Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
> attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)


Continue the roll until it's a full 360 degrees. If you start downhill, pull
the throttle back to idle until things are sorted out again.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[[email protected]]

On Jun 5, 10:45 am, "gatt" > wrote:
> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > I deviated south slightly to pass
> > around the heavy rain when I was surrounded by what I can only
> > describe as a "spider web" of lighting and was violently rolled upside
> > down.
>
> Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
> attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)
>
> -c

Sounds like you need to go up and do some acro training... finishing
the roll is the best option, even if you wind up nose down. A split S
in a 150 is not a good idea, even if power is off.

[gatt]

> wrote in message
oups.com...

>> Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
>> attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)
>
> Sounds like you need to go up and do some acro training... finishing
> the roll is the best option, even if you wind up nose down. A split S
> in a 150 is not a good idea, even if power is off.

That's what I'd do...just try to ease it through the roll without breaking
it or losing too much altitude. Even if the result is a spin, there's a
documented and memorable procedure for spin recovery.

-c

[Private]

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mark Hansen" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside
>>> down
>>> attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)
>>>
>>
>> Would that be different from "unusual attitude recovery"?
>
> Bit more unusual of an attitude than what's one the average checkride.
>
> My theories are:
>
> 1) Reboot the computer
> 2) 150s are pretty light, so just hop out and see if you can flip it over
> 3) Call technical support.
> 4) Stall to induce a spin and then recover from the spin normally.
> 5) Try to get hit by another bold of lightning to flip the plane over
> 6) Cut power, pull back to pitch the airplane nose down and then pull out
> without stalling.

All the above are wrong and #4 & #6 dangerously so.

The correct procedure is to PUSH and ROLL.

The push is to hold the nose up while you roll and should be released before
wings are level. It is actually pretty easy and will result in little loss
of altitude or speed buildup.

#6 is a 'split S' which is the back side of a loop except that at the top of
a loop your airspeed will be very low, if attempted from anywhere near slow
cruising speed it will almost surely result in exceeding Vne and you will be
pulling hard enough to seriously damage or remove the wings. You will also
loose lots more altitude than you would think.

I will not comment on #4 beyond suggesting that you consider what you would
need to do to stall inverted and also how you would determine if the spin
was inverted or not and how would you recover if it was.

I would also suggest that you find a Citabria and take some intro aerobatics
focusing on spins and unusual attitude recovery. If you can find a
Decathlon you can also try an inverted spin. Caution, there is no known
cure for aerobatics. The experience will improve your stick and rudder
skills more than anything I know and IMHO is great fun.

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

On Jun 5, 11:45 am, "gatt" > wrote:
> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > I deviated south slightly to pass
> > around the heavy rain when I was surrounded by what I can only
> > describe as a "spider web" of lighting and was violently rolled upside
> > down.
>
> Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
> attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)
>
> -c

Just continue with the roll and recover rightside up! Not a big deal
but I can highly recommend some aerobatic training for those who have
never been upside down!
I am continually amazed at how few of todays pilots have never been
inverted in an airplane or have done any spin training. That probably,
in part, answers why there are so many accidents from what should have
been "Ho-Hum" flight attitudes?
Ol S&B
Soaring Buzzard
Infamous Worldwide Pilot/Instructor

[gatt]

"Private" > wrote in message
news:NIj9i.279469$DE1.82921@pd7urf2no...

> I would also suggest that you find a Citabria and take some intro
> aerobatics focusing on spins and unusual attitude recovery. If you can
> find a Decathlon you can also try an inverted spin. Caution, there is no
> known cure for aerobatics. The experience will improve your stick and
> rudder skills more than anything I know and IMHO is great fun.


Anybody know any aerobatic instructors in Oregon or southeast Washington?

I've done spins and spin training, but nothing inverted.

-c

[john smith]

gatt wrote:
> Anybody know any aerobatic instructors in Oregon or southeast Washington?
> I've done spins and spin training, but nothing inverted.

Check the International Aerobatics Club website.
They maintain a list of aerobatic instruction locations.

[Jim Logajan]

"gatt" > wrote:
> Anybody know any aerobatic instructors in Oregon or southeast
> Washington?
>
> I've done spins and spin training, but nothing inverted.

Probably too far south for you I suspect, but there is this company based
out of Creswell Oregon (just south of Eugene/Springfield):

http://www.wingoveraerobatics.com/

[gatt]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> gatt wrote:
>> Anybody know any aerobatic instructors in Oregon or southeast Washington?
>> I've done spins and spin training, but nothing inverted.
>
> Check the International Aerobatics Club website.
> They maintain a list of aerobatic instruction locations.

Excellent! Thanks for the tip.

-c

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Stefan" > wrote

> If you have to ask, then the only viable procedure in any aircraft is:
> Stick and rudder fully against the side where the outside is blue.

Ahh, but grasshopper, what if you are above a large body of water, and the
sky is full of white puffy clouds? Does the same wisdom apply?
<ggg>

Geeze, I had a quick hallucination, and thought for a moment I was MX.

Naaah. It was a nightmare!
--
Jim in NC

[Maxwell]

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>
>> I deviated south slightly to pass
>> around the heavy rain when I was surrounded by what I can only
>> describe as a "spider web" of lighting and was violently rolled upside
>> down.
>
> Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
> attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)
>
> -c
>

I'm with Mort and OSB. Not a big deal. Full aileron, in the shortest
direction back to level. A little rudder and back pressure to speed your
recovery along, if you have time to think about it.

I would hope most pilots would react instinctively.

If you don't have enough airspeed and wind up in a spin, which would seem
really unlikely, just neutralize the controls (or let go of them). If your
150 is rigged correctly, which I bet you a nickel it is, it will stop by
it's self. Then get the nose up to avoid an over speed condition.

Just don't freak out. It shouldn't be a really big deal. But never do it
intentionally until you have been properly trained and equipped. Like
someone else mentioned, it can be real addictive.

[gatt]

"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .
> "gatt" > wrote:
>> Anybody know any aerobatic instructors in Oregon or southeast
>> Washington?
>>
>> I've done spins and spin training, but nothing inverted.
>
> Probably too far south for you I suspect, but there is this company based
> out of Creswell Oregon (just south of Eugene/Springfield):
>
> http://www.wingoveraerobatics.com/

Bookmarked it! $330/hr for Pitts (including instruction) seems like a lot,
but, coffins aren't cheap either and it's a short course. Thanks, all.

-c

[Dallas]

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:03:51 -0700, Brian wrote:

> It has an article
> about a sailplane that was hit by lighting.


Fortunately, an aluminum aircraft forms a Faraday cage.

A Faraday cage blocks out external static electrical fields by directing
the charge around the outside of the fuselage. This is not to say that
damage can't occur to the electrical system because it's not a perfect
cage. Composite aircraft don't share this protection.


--
Dallas

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
ups.com...
....
>
> I am continually amazed at how few of todays pilots have never been
> inverted in an airplane or have done any spin training. That probably,
> in part, answers why there are so many accidents from what should have
> been "Ho-Hum" flight attitudes?
> Ol S&B
> Soaring Buzzard
> Infamous Worldwide Pilot/Instructor
>

So maybe a loop, or spin for a couple of turns, or even roll weren't such
terrible things to teach students 30 or 40 years ago? I don't think we had
as great a percentage of control loss accidents back then as we do now, but
we did have a lot more weather related accidents.

Trying to make the pursuit safer by eliminating training accidents by
removing certain skill tests from the practical flight test didn't do anyone
much good I suspect. It did however create commercial pilots who've never
been upside down or in a fully developed spin before. I don't see that as an
improvement, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jim Carter" > wrote

> Trying to make the pursuit safer by eliminating training accidents by
> removing certain skill tests from the practical flight test didn't do
> anyone much good I suspect. It did however create commercial pilots who've
> never been upside down or in a fully developed spin before. I don't see
> that as an improvement, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

The only thing you are overlooking is the total death tally.

There once were more people killed in spin training than were killed in spin
accidents.

They stopped spin training, and there were still people killed in actual
spins, but not as many as the previous totals of training and real spin
accidents.

I think many older instructors still sneak in some "real" fully developed
spin training. There are also the "upset training" schools, that have well
trained instructors and equipment capable of handling the abuse. My
personal feeling is that they are probably a "good thing."

I wonder how many people trained since the elimination of spin skills on the
PP test, have actually done fully developed spins? Also, I wonder how many
have gone through one of the "unusual attitude" and "upset training"
schools?
--
Jim in NC

[Jim Logajan]

"Morgans" > wrote:
> There once were more people killed in spin training than were killed
> in spin accidents.

"The notion that mandatory spin training was rescinded in 1949 because "we
were killing more pilots during spin training than the training was
saving" is a myth. In the many research papers I’ve read on the subject
from every decade of powered flight, I have yet to come across evidence
substantiating this claim." Quoted from:

http://www.richstowell.com/aopa.htm

Worth a read.

[Private]

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "gatt" > wrote:
>>> Anybody know any aerobatic instructors in Oregon or southeast
>>> Washington?
>>>
>>> I've done spins and spin training, but nothing inverted.
>>
>> Probably too far south for you I suspect, but there is this company based
>> out of Creswell Oregon (just south of Eugene/Springfield):
>>
>> http://www.wingoveraerobatics.com/
>
> Bookmarked it! $330/hr for Pitts (including instruction) seems like a
> lot, but, coffins aren't cheap either and it's a short course. Thanks,
> all.
>

I STRONGLY suggest you look for a Decathlon or a Citabria for intro work.
They have a slower roll rate and less power but that gives them flight
characteristics that are a lot easier for a beginner and IMHO are a lot more
elegant and what you learn will be easier to translate to your normal
flying. They are not as spectacular but IMHO are more fun and are certainly
easier on your stomach which means you can stay out for an hour instead of
20 min. The rolls will be slower and the loops will be bigger but since
they have higher drag will not accelerate as quickly in downlines. Save the
Pitts and Extra money for special occasions and after you have 10-15 hours
in the slower and much cheaper aircraft. I would expect you will find a
Citabria w/instructor for ~$150 and a Decathlon for not much more. The
Decathlon is a better & stronger bird but the Citabria is quite adequate for
low G stuff.

Good luck,

[Al G[_2_]]

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "gatt" > wrote:
>>> Anybody know any aerobatic instructors in Oregon or southeast
>>> Washington?
>>>
>>> I've done spins and spin training, but nothing inverted.
>>
>> Probably too far south for you I suspect, but there is this company based
>> out of Creswell Oregon (just south of Eugene/Springfield):
>>
>> http://www.wingoveraerobatics.com/
>
> Bookmarked it! $330/hr for Pitts (including instruction) seems like a
> lot, but, coffins aren't cheap either and it's a short course. Thanks,
> all.
>
> -c
>

That would be the famous Steve Wolf. http://www.wolfpitts.com/

He has been around for a while. He used to fly with a 4 ship aerobatic
team, maybe "Northern Nights", or something like that. (Help me out here
Dudley) I watched them fly at the Reno Air Races many moons ago. He builds 6
aileron Pitts in his shop at the Creswell airport. He visited our EAA
Christmas party this year, and there is no one I would feel more comfortable
with hanging upside down. Enjoy your flight!

Al G

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Al G wrote:

>
> He builds 6 aileron Pitts in his shop at the Creswell
> airport. He visited our EAA Christmas party this year, and there is
> no one I would feel more comfortable with hanging upside down. Enjoy
> your flight!
> Al G

Ok, I have to ask, where do they put the extra pair of ailerons?

[Al G[_2_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...
> Al G wrote:
>
>>
>> He builds 6 aileron Pitts in his shop at the Creswell
>> airport. He visited our EAA Christmas party this year, and there is
>> no one I would feel more comfortable with hanging upside down. Enjoy
>> your flight!
>> Al G
>
> Ok, I have to ask, where do they put the extra pair of ailerons?
>

Inboard, lower set of wings. It apparently allows you to control the
roll while vertical at zero airspeed hanging on the prop. Not a condition I
run into a lot in the rental 172's.

Al G

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Al G wrote:
>> Ok, I have to ask, where do they put the extra pair of ailerons?
>>
>
> Inboard, lower set of wings. It apparently allows you to control the
> roll while vertical at zero airspeed hanging on the prop. Not a condition I
> run into a lot in the rental 172's.



You obviously never rented from Carowings Flight Service.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[gatt]

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...

> It was a hot, still day, and a heavy 767 landed before them. There
> was plenty of separation and they were above and behind, so they
> should have been fine for wake turbulence. But apparently the vortex
> bounced off the ground and rose to meet them. On very short final -
> about 200' altitude, it grabbed them and rolled them right.

I did spin training at 10.4 hours, before my first solo, in a C150 (N3278V)
with my first instructor--who was home from Embry Riddle for the summer--in
1989. He said "We don't have to do this" but I said "bring it on."

The reason he recommended is similar to what you described. A bunch of
Embry Riddle CFI students were riding in a twin with a senior-year student
who had been on the aerobatic team. On takeoff the same sort of thing you
described happened and he managed to flip the airplane back around, bring it
around the pattern and land. Dan, my instructor, described the scene when
they landed...the students all kneeling on the ground and throwing up or
walking around in a daze, and all the witnesses looking at the pilot in awe.
He said everybody who was in the airplane that didn't hang it up and quit
flying afterward signed up for aerobatic training.

Dan lost his summer CFI job for teaching spins, etc, but went on to fly with
ER in the national aerobatic championships.

-c

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

On Jun 7, 3:48 am, Richard Riley > wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 09:45:35 -0700, "gatt"
>
> > wrote:
>
> >"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> >> I deviated south slightly to pass
> >> around the heavy rain when I was surrounded by what I can only
> >> describe as a "spider web" of lighting and was violently rolled upside
> >> down.
>
> >Curious.... what's the procedure for recovering a 150 from an upside down
> >attitude? (FTM, what's the procedure for an Arrow?)
>
> Years ago my dad decided to get back into flying after a 40 year
> lay-off. He went for a quick intro ride in a 172 at SNA, with a pilot
> from Sunrise Aviation.
>
> They did the normal intro stuff - level turns, turns around a point,
> that kind of thing. They came back in after an hour.
>
> It was a hot, still day, and a heavy 767 landed before them. There
> was plenty of separation and they were above and behind, so they
> should have been fine for wake turbulence. But apparently the vortex
> bounced off the ground and rose to meet them. On very short final -
> about 200' altitude, it grabbed them and rolled them right.
>
> The instructor, by chance, was also an acro instructor at Sunrise.
> They have a branch, LenAir Aerobatics, that does serious acro
> training. Before they were 90 degrees he'd opened the throttle. He
> fought the roll through about 160 degrees, then reversed ailerons,
> added rudder and stuffed the nose up. They completed the roll and
> started climbing. They'd lost about 100 feet.
>
> The tower called them and said "cleared to land any runway, no need to
> reply." They replied "going around, left closed pattern."
>
> My dad didn't ever complete his license - he couldn't get a medical
> and died a few years later. But he did another 50 hours of dual
> after that.

Was that Mike Church by chance? I really enjoyed my time on the west
coast and meeting and flying with many who are established experts in
the aviation industry. Come to think of it, I've enjoyed the company
of many of the aviation greats in my 50 years in GenAv around the
world.
Ol S&B
Soaring Buzzard
Infamous Worldwide pilot/instructor