flying into SFO at night?

[buttman]

I'm thinking of doing a night flight to SFO in a C152. Is this going
to be difficult? Will they let me in? Is that place very busy at
night? I plan on arriving at about midnight. Would a touch and go be
possible, or will they make me do a full stop? If so, where can I
expect to taxi and get fuel? If I have to taxi all around the huge and
complex airport, I'll just land somewhere else and get fuel, rather
than risk getting lost and then ran over by a 747.

What about any other bay area airports that are GA friendly during the
night?

[Dave J]

> What about any other bay area airports that are GA friendly during the
> night?

You mean among those that are not GA friendly during the day?

It's not hard to get into SJC even during the day, and of course, OAK
has an entirely "separate airport" for GA.

Among the rest, your stuck with the highly limited choices of HWD,
SQL, PAO, APC, DVO, RHV. :) Most of their towers will be closed at
midnight, but I'm not aware of any curfews that will affect a 152.

Of course, the AF/D (or even airnav.com) has all the answers you need.

-- dave j

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

buttman > wrote in news:1181170213.465731.65700
@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

> I'm thinking of doing a night flight to SFO in a C152. Is this going
> to be difficult? Will they let me in? Is that place very busy at
> night? I plan on arriving at about midnight. Would a touch and go be
> possible, or will they make me do a full stop? If so, where can I
> expect to taxi and get fuel? If I have to taxi all around the huge and
> complex airport, I'll just land somewhere else and get fuel, rather
> than risk getting lost and then ran over by a 747.
>

Good grief.

Bertie

[JB]

On Jun 6, 7:16 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> buttman > wrote in news:1181170213.465731.65700
> @j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I'm thinking of doing a night flight to SFO in a C152. Is this going
> > to be difficult? Will they let me in? Is that place very busy at
> > night? I plan on arriving at about midnight. Would a touch and go be
> > possible, or will they make me do a full stop? If so, where can I
> > expect to taxi and get fuel? If I have to taxi all around the huge and
> > complex airport, I'll just land somewhere else and get fuel, rather
> > than risk getting lost and then ran over by a 747.
>
> Good grief.
>
> Bertie

Hey, I know...lets ask mxsmanic! I bet he has lots of "experience"
flying in and out of SFO! With taxiing, stops for fuel, even a
layover before heading to Tokyo. I bet his knows the field like a
seasoned pro. On second thought.....this is probably a bad idea.
Never mind.

--Jeff

[Sylvain]

Dave J wrote:
> Among the rest, your stuck with the highly limited choices of HWD,
> SQL, PAO, APC, DVO, RHV. :) Most of their towers will be closed at
> midnight, but I'm not aware of any curfews that will affect a 152.

SJC closes at night as well (can't remember the time and I don't have
my AF/D with me);

I'd like to land in KSFO too eventually, the only Bay Area airport
missing in my list :-) (did land in KNUQ a few times doing Young
Eagles flights). My plan was to call the tower on the phone and
ask them what time would be the least inconvenient. :-)

--Sylvain

[Sylvain]

Sylvain wrote:


> SJC closes at night as well

I meant, the tower of SJC closes at night

--Sylvain

[Morgans[_2_]]

"JB" <> wrote >

> On second thought.....this is probably a bad idea.
> Never mind.

You should have said, "on first thought, this is probably a bad idea."

And you would have been right. <g>

Sometimes, this one sounds too much like ........
"you know who."
--
Jim in NC

[Andrew Sarangan]

On Jun 6, 7:10 pm, Dave J > wrote:
> > What about any other bay area airports that are GA friendly during the
> > night?
>
> You mean among those that are not GA friendly during the day?
>
> It's not hard to get into SJC even during the day, and of course, OAK
> has an entirely "separate airport" for GA.
>
> Among the rest, your stuck with the highly limited choices of HWD,
> SQL, PAO, APC, DVO, RHV. :) Most of their towers will be closed at
> midnight, but I'm not aware of any curfews that will affect a 152.
>
> Of course, the AF/D (or even airnav.com) has all the answers you need.
>
> -- dave j

I think the poster was asking specifically about SFO, not San
Francisco area airports.

[RST Engineering]

My only landing at SFO in recent memory was greeted with a "Here's your $75
landing fee" until they saw my passenger ... Governor Jerry Brown. Things
got a whole bunch warmer thereafter.

Jim

--
"Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt, and
dance like no one is watching."
--Satchel Paige


"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
ups.com...


> I think the poster was asking specifically about SFO, not San
> Francisco area airports.
>
>

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "bm" == buttman > writes:

bm> I'm thinking of doing a night flight to SFO in a C152. Is this
bm> going to be difficult? Will they let me in? Is that place very
bm> busy at night? I plan on arriving at about midnight. Would a
bm> touch and go be possible, or will they make me do a full stop?
bm> If so, where can I expect to taxi and get fuel? If I have to
bm> taxi all around the huge and complex airport, I'll just land
bm> somewhere else and get fuel, rather than risk getting lost and
bm> then ran over by a 747.

bm> What about any other bay area airports that are GA friendly
bm> during the night?

I've never landed at SFO but have at all the other GA airports, though
not at night for a long time. I pretty sure you can land at SFO
easily at night because there are no scheduled airlines between about
1 am and...about 5 or 6 am I'll guess. Others have posted in the past
about doing a touch-and-go or similar just to say they did it.

But it sounds like you want to arrive at night, get fuel, and depart?
If so, pick another airport. Any other Bay Area airport will do, I'm
sure they have self-serve fuel at many.
--
To me, it's always a good idea to always carry two sacks of
something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey,
can you give me a hand?," you can say, "Sorry, got these sacks."
- Jack Handey

[buttman]

On Jun 6, 4:10 pm, Dave J > wrote:
>
> Of course, the AF/D (or even airnav.com) has all the answers you need.
>
> -- dave j

Yeah, but the information I'm looking for isn't the kind of info
you'll find on airnav or the AFD. If someone wanted to go take a trip
to my home airport, I'd write for them a few paragraphs of stuff it's
be good for them to know; none of which is in the AFD. You know,
common reporting points the tower requests, typical taxi routes, local
phraseology, stuff like that. Normally you can just kind of roll with
it, but in a complicated Class B environment (especially at night),
I'd hate to get stuck with something like a common taxi instruction I
can't understand and have to ask the controller to repeat multiple
times.

[Shirl]

buttman > wrote:
> Yeah, but the information I'm looking for isn't the kind of info
> you'll find on airnav or the AFD. If someone wanted to go take a trip
> to my home airport, I'd write for them a few paragraphs of stuff it's
> be good for them to know; none of which is in the AFD. You know,
> common reporting points the tower requests, typical taxi routes, local
> phraseology, stuff like that. Normally you can just kind of roll with
> it, but in a complicated Class B environment (especially at night),
> I'd hate to get stuck with something like a common taxi instruction I
> can't understand and have to ask the controller to repeat multiple
> times.

I used to live a few minutes from SFO.
I can't imagine why anyone would want to land there in anything smaller
than a biz jet at any hour. There are several GA airports in close
proximity.

[Don Tuite]

On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:21:53 -0700, Sylvain > wrote:

>Sylvain wrote:
>
>
>> SJC closes at night as well
>
>I meant, the tower of SJC closes at night
>
There's no pump-yourself gas at KSQL. I'm not sure when the guy in
the Chevron truck goes home, but it's probably before the tower
closes.

Don

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

buttman wrote:
> I'm thinking of doing a night flight to SFO in a C152. Is this going
> to be difficult? Will they let me in? Is that place very busy at
> night? I plan on arriving at about midnight. Would a touch and go be
> possible, or will they make me do a full stop? If so, where can I
> expect to taxi and get fuel? If I have to taxi all around the huge and
> complex airport, I'll just land somewhere else and get fuel, rather
> than risk getting lost and then ran over by a 747.
>
> What about any other bay area airports that are GA friendly during the
> night?
>

You're an instructor?

If so, do you introduce your students to the AF/D, airport diagrams,
progressive taxi instructions, and so on?

[Roy Smith]

In article m>,
buttman > wrote:

> I'm thinking of doing a night flight to SFO in a C152. Is this going
> to be difficult? Will they let me in? Is that place very busy at
> night? I plan on arriving at about midnight. Would a touch and go be
> possible, or will they make me do a full stop? If so, where can I
> expect to taxi and get fuel? If I have to taxi all around the huge and
> complex airport, I'll just land somewhere else and get fuel, rather
> than risk getting lost and then ran over by a 747.

It's very unlikely that a 152 would get run over by a 747 at SFO. They
really try hard to prevent FOD incidents like that. Too much paperwork to
fill out afterwards.

[Bob Gardner]

I used to fly into OAK every night for a living, landing in the wee small
hours. Much easier to get around than is SFO.

Bob Gardner

"buttman" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> I'm thinking of doing a night flight to SFO in a C152. Is this going
> to be difficult? Will they let me in? Is that place very busy at
> night? I plan on arriving at about midnight. Would a touch and go be
> possible, or will they make me do a full stop? If so, where can I
> expect to taxi and get fuel? If I have to taxi all around the huge and
> complex airport, I'll just land somewhere else and get fuel, rather
> than risk getting lost and then ran over by a 747.
>
> What about any other bay area airports that are GA friendly during the
> night?
>

[Ross]

Sylvain wrote:
> Dave J wrote:
>
>>Among the rest, your stuck with the highly limited choices of HWD,
>>SQL, PAO, APC, DVO, RHV. :) Most of their towers will be closed at
>>midnight, but I'm not aware of any curfews that will affect a 152.
>
>
> SJC closes at night as well (can't remember the time and I don't have
> my AF/D with me);
>
> I'd like to land in KSFO too eventually, the only Bay Area airport
> missing in my list :-) (did land in KNUQ a few times doing Young
> Eagles flights). My plan was to call the tower on the phone and
> ask them what time would be the least inconvenient. :-)
>
> --Sylvain

I kown a pilot here in the Dallas Fort Worth area that flew his C-152
into DFW airport and pick up his girl friend. He wrote a report on it
and it was great. He did call ahead to find the best time. Also during
the great Y2K, there was a girl flying at midnight and did a touch and
go at DFW. No one was around.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[buttman]

On Jun 7, 7:57 am, "Bob Gardner" > wrote:
> I used to fly into OAK every night for a living, landing in the wee small
> hours. Much easier to get around than is SFO.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
> "buttman" > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...
>
> > I'm thinking of doing a night flight to SFO in a C152. Is this going
> > to be difficult? Will they let me in? Is that place very busy at
> > night? I plan on arriving at about midnight. Would a touch and go be
> > possible, or will they make me do a full stop? If so, where can I
> > expect to taxi and get fuel? If I have to taxi all around the huge and
> > complex airport, I'll just land somewhere else and get fuel, rather
> > than risk getting lost and then ran over by a 747.
>
> > What about any other bay area airports that are GA friendly during the
> > night?

Yeah, I'm thinking it'd be better to go to Oakland instead. Can I
expect to get cleared into the bravo, or will they make me maneuver
around it? I don't think it'd be very fun to have to duck around all
that complicated airspace, especially at night.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

buttman > wrote in
oups.com:

> On Jun 7, 7:57 am, "Bob Gardner" > wrote:
>> I used to fly into OAK every night for a living, landing in the wee
>> small hours. Much easier to get around than is SFO.
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>>
>> "buttman" > wrote in message
>>
>> ps.com...
>>
>> > I'm thinking of doing a night flight to SFO in a C152. Is this
>> > going to be difficult? Will they let me in? Is that place very busy
>> > at night? I plan on arriving at about midnight. Would a touch and
>> > go be possible, or will they make me do a full stop? If so, where
>> > can I expect to taxi and get fuel? If I have to taxi all around the
>> > huge and complex airport, I'll just land somewhere else and get
>> > fuel, rather than risk getting lost and then ran over by a 747.
>>
>> > What about any other bay area airports that are GA friendly during
>> > the night?
>
> Yeah, I'm thinking it'd be better to go to Oakland instead. Can I
> expect to get cleared into the bravo, or will they make me maneuver
> around it? I don't think it'd be very fun to have to duck around all
> that complicated airspace, especially at night.
>

Make sure you watch out fer them utther airyplanes, bozo.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

buttman > wrote in news:1181182294.943767.83040
@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com:

> On Jun 6, 4:10 pm, Dave J > wrote:
>>
>> Of course, the AF/D (or even airnav.com) has all the answers you need.
>>
>> -- dave j
>
> Yeah, but the information I'm looking for isn't the kind of info
> you'll find on airnav or the AFD.

What, you want to see if there's anyone there who wil object to your
ignorance of RT and traffic rules?

Bertie

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "bm" == buttman > writes:

bm> Yeah, I'm thinking it'd be better to go to Oakland
bm> instead. Can I expect to get cleared into the bravo, or will
bm> they make me maneuver around it? I don't think it'd be very
bm> fun to have to duck around all that complicated airspace,
bm> especially at night.

Simply contact NorCal approach with your destination and follow their
instructions. They will clear you for whatever airspace you need to
enter. Be prepared with the SF-TAC so you can double-check
frequencies on handoffs and have some idea of the airspace involved.
--
No one is completely unhappy at the failure of his best friend.
Groucho Marx

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jun 7, 9:18 am, Ross > wrote:
> Sylvain wrote:
> > Dave J wrote:
>
> >>Among the rest, your stuck with the highly limited choices of HWD,
> >>SQL, PAO, APC, DVO, RHV. :) Most of their towers will be closed at
> >>midnight, but I'm not aware of any curfews that will affect a 152.
>
> > SJC closes at night as well (can't remember the time and I don't have
> > my AF/D with me);
>
> > I'd like to land in KSFO too eventually, the only Bay Area airport
> > missing in my list :-) (did land in KNUQ a few times doing Young
> > Eagles flights). My plan was to call the tower on the phone and
> > ask them what time would be the least inconvenient. :-)
>
> > --Sylvain
>
> I kown a pilot here in the Dallas Fort Worth area that flew his C-152
> into DFW airport and pick up his girl friend. He wrote a report on it
> and it was great. He did call ahead to find the best time. Also during
> the great Y2K, there was a girl flying at midnight and did a touch and
> go at DFW. No one was around.
>
> --
>
> Regards, Ross
> C-172F 180HP
> KSWI- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

DFW is very GA friendly, lots of runways etc. SFO is about as friendly
as LAX. They only have two landing runways at a time. We did go into
SFO 135 in the Debonair once though. It was pretty cool. Landing fee
was reduced to $180 with fuel purchase.

-Robert

[John Godwin]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in
ups.com:

> DFW is very GA friendly, lots of runways etc. SFO is about as
> friendly as LAX. They only have two landing runways at a time. We
> did go into SFO 135 in the Debonair once though. It was pretty
> cool. Landing fee was reduced to $180 with fuel purchase.
>
I've been into SFO several times. Once they gave me runway 1R with a
land and hold short chearance.

--

[buttman]

On Jun 7, 7:08 pm, Bob Fry > wrote:
> >>>>> "bm" == buttman > writes:
>
> bm> Yeah, I'm thinking it'd be better to go to Oakland
> bm> instead. Can I expect to get cleared into the bravo, or will
> bm> they make me maneuver around it? I don't think it'd be very
> bm> fun to have to duck around all that complicated airspace,
> bm> especially at night.
>
> Simply contact NorCal approach with your destination and follow their
> instructions. They will clear you for whatever airspace you need to
> enter. Be prepared with the SF-TAC so you can double-check
> frequencies on handoffs and have some idea of the airspace involved.
> --
> No one is completely unhappy at the failure of his best friend.
> Groucho Marx

The reason I ask, is because a few years ago I went to Burke Lakeside,
and on the way there they cleared me through the Cleveland Bravo, but
on the way back they told me to "remain clear of the class bravo", and
it didn't even seem busy. To avoid the airspace, it was trivial since
the Cleveland area class B is pretty straight forward, but the San
Francisco class bravo is anything but straight forward (especially in
a /U possibly without a working nav radio)

That was my one and only brush with class B. I don't know if something
like that is standard practice or not. I just want to know what I'm
getting into before I make the decision to go there.

[Don Tuite]

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:27:26 -0000, buttman > wrote:

>On Jun 7, 7:08 pm, Bob Fry > wrote:
>> >>>>> "bm" == buttman > writes:
>>
>> bm> Yeah, I'm thinking it'd be better to go to Oakland
>> bm> instead. Can I expect to get cleared into the bravo, or will
>> bm> they make me maneuver around it? I don't think it'd be very
>> bm> fun to have to duck around all that complicated airspace,
>> bm> especially at night.
>>
>> Simply contact NorCal approach with your destination and follow their
>> instructions. They will clear you for whatever airspace you need to
>> enter. Be prepared with the SF-TAC so you can double-check
>> frequencies on handoffs and have some idea of the airspace involved.
>> --
>> No one is completely unhappy at the failure of his best friend.
>> Groucho Marx
>
>The reason I ask, is because a few years ago I went to Burke Lakeside,
>and on the way there they cleared me through the Cleveland Bravo, but
>on the way back they told me to "remain clear of the class bravo", and
>it didn't even seem busy. To avoid the airspace, it was trivial since
>the Cleveland area class B is pretty straight forward, but the San
>Francisco class bravo is anything but straight forward (especially in
>a /U possibly without a working nav radio)
>
>That was my one and only brush with class B. I don't know if something
>like that is standard practice or not. I just want to know what I'm
>getting into before I make the decision to go there.

If ATC won't clear you through the Bravo, it is not trivial. Coming
from the south and up the peninsula, you have to transit SJC's
Charlie, staying west of the landing airliners and not flying into
that 4000' AGL tower and navigating with respect to the Pruneyard
shopping center, then transit the contiguous Deltas of NUQ, PAO, and
SQL, after which you'll run into the Bravo, where you can probably get
a Bayshore Transition, requiring you to identify and remain west of
101, or, if you report over the OSI vortac, you might get a transition
up the backbone of the peninsula and past Montara mountain. You can go
up the coastline, but this time of year you'll be over solid undercast
and by Devil's Slide, you need to be either a ways offshore in order
to maintain 2500' or lower, or you'' encounter the little segment
where the floor of the Bravo goes down to 1300'.

You can avoid the Bravo on the east side by staying east, first of 101
and then east of 580, passing through or above the RHV delta, with
4000' Mt Hamilton and some tall towers on lesser mountains on your
right. Past Sunol Pass you've got the HWD Delta and the OAK Charlie,
with heavies landing on the long runway there.

Coming from the North is simpler. Until you get to all that mess. Or
unless it's winter and there's tule fog. in the valley.

What I'm suggesting with that trivia recitation is that you shouldn't
try to run that gantlet VFR at night, the very first time you come
here. IFR is duck soup. VFR is better after you've acquired some
local knowledge with an instructor.

If needs must, go to Oakland. Or Hayward. With Livermore as your
alternate if OAK is socked in.

Don

[buttman]

On Jun 8, 12:52 pm, Don Tuite >
wrote:

>
> If ATC won't clear you through the Bravo, it is not trivial.
>
> Don

I could have told you that.

What I want to know is if I can expect "cleared into the class bravo",
or "remain clear of the class bravo". If I get the latter, I should be
OK, the former would be a show stopper.

Weather won't be an issue; if its not severe VFR, I won't be going.

[John Clear]

In article . com>,
buttman > wrote:
>
>I could have told you that.
>
>What I want to know is if I can expect "cleared into the class bravo",
>or "remain clear of the class bravo". If I get the latter, I should be
>OK, the former would be a show stopper.

I'm not sure if you have those reversed.

Depending on where you are going, getting a Class Bravo clearance
is no problem at all. I've never landed at SFO, but have flown by
(south and west of highway 101, aka 'Bayshore Transition') and over
(cross midfield) SFO at 1500ft many times with no problems getting
a Bravo clearance. I've only had a Class Bravo transition denied
a few times, usually when the fog is rolling in and messing things
up for SFO. Even with the fog rolling in, I've flown by/over SFO
at 3500ft numerous times.

Others in this thread have described getting into OAK and other area
airports without entering the Bravo. Depending where you need to be
once you land, there are easier airports to land at then SFO.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

buttman > wrote in news:1181351805.157569.237280
@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

> On Jun 8, 12:52 pm, Don Tuite >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> If ATC won't clear you through the Bravo, it is not trivial.
>>
>> Don
>
> I could have told you that.
>
> What I want to know is if I can expect "cleared into the class bravo",
> or "remain clear of the class bravo". If I get the latter, I should be
> OK, the former would be a show stopper.
>
> Weather won't be an issue; if its not severe VFR, I won't be going.


Snort!

Bertie