Pre-oil before first run?

[Dave Hyde]

Anyone got any suggestions on how to pre-oil
a Lyc. O-320 before its first run?

Dave 'it might just be a train' Hyde

[wmbjk]

"Dave Hyde" > wrote in message
...

> Anyone got any suggestions on how to pre-oil
> a Lyc. O-320 before its first run?

If it's the first run after overhaul, then the assembly lube should do
its job. If it's new and has already been test run, then it's the lifter
faces and cam that might be dry. I think you're 'sposed to get it up to
splash speed immediately after starting to minimize the scuffing.
There's probably a good recommendation at the Sacramento Sky Ranch site.

Wayne

[Dave Anderson]

Here is part of a post I made a while ago to the BD-4 email list:

Get a cheap 1gal poly gas can (any kind of strong sealable container will
do) and a bolt-on style tire inflation nipple. (Both available at any
discout auto parts store.) Drill the gas can cap for the nipple and bolt it
on. This is the pressurization point. Run 1/4 copper tube through the gas
can vent hole and down to the bottom of the gas can, and epoxy it in place
above and below the vent hole. (Don't worry if it will leak a bit, this
isn't rocket science.) Hook that up to the oil pressure pick-off point on
the engine, using some hose to a pipe nipple at the engine. Fill the gas
can with oil, set your air compressor pressure regulator to about 20 lbs,
and pressurize the can. In a couple of minutes, all of the oil will be sent
through the engine, getting everything nice and oily. Don't forget to
reattach the aircraft oil pressure line to the engine after pre-oiling. :)

I ran 6 qts through, and then cranked the engine right away. Oil pressure
was immediate, even as the engine cranked. Total cost for this pre-oiler
rig was under $15. I have used it a couple of times since, very handy.


"Dave Hyde" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone got any suggestions on how to pre-oil
> a Lyc. O-320 before its first run?
>
> Dave 'it might just be a train' Hyde
>

[Roger Halstead]

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 05:59:46 GMT, "Dave Anderson"
> wrote:

>Here is part of a post I made a while ago to the BD-4 email list:
>
>Get a cheap 1gal poly gas can (any kind of strong sealable container will
>do) and a bolt-on style tire inflation nipple. (Both available at any
>discout auto parts store.) Drill the gas can cap for the nipple and bolt it
>on. This is the pressurization point. Run 1/4 copper tube through the gas
>can vent hole and down to the bottom of the gas can, and epoxy it in place
>above and below the vent hole. (Don't worry if it will leak a bit, this
>isn't rocket science.) Hook that up to the oil pressure pick-off point on
>the engine, using some hose to a pipe nipple at the engine. Fill the gas
>can with oil, set your air compressor pressure regulator to about 20 lbs,
>and pressurize the can. In a couple of minutes, all of the oil will be sent
>through the engine, getting everything nice and oily. Don't forget to
>reattach the aircraft oil pressure line to the engine after pre-oiling. :)
>
>I ran 6 qts through, and then cranked the engine right away. Oil pressure
>was immediate, even as the engine cranked. Total cost for this pre-oiler
>rig was under $15. I have used it a couple of times since, very handy.

I've seen something similar made using a 20# LP Gas cylinder.
The valve assembly is replaced with a new one containing a dip tube
and pressure connector for the air.

In these the pressure was quite a bit more than a above and as I
recall you could put up to 10 quarts of oil in one (possibly more).

I watched Jack Yoder use one to pre oil a couple of engines.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>
>
>"Dave Hyde" > wrote in message
...
>> Anyone got any suggestions on how to pre-oil
>> a Lyc. O-320 before its first run?
>>
>> Dave 'it might just be a train' Hyde
>>
>

[David O]

Dave Hyde > wrote:

>Anyone got any suggestions on how to pre-oil
>a Lyc. O-320 before its first run?
>
>Dave 'it might just be a train' Hyde



Dave,

Lycoming's service instruction 1241c (still active) addresses the
subject of pre-oiling after overhaul,

http://www.AirplaneZone.com/NewsgroupPix/si1241c-1.gif
http://www.AirplaneZone.com/NewsgroupPix/si1241c-2.gif

I'll leave that SI up for a few days. As Wayne correctly noted, and
assuming you have just overhauled your engine, the assembly grease
that you <hopefully> put on your cam lobes and follower faces will
last through pre-oiling and engine start even if the engine takes long
time to crank up. When you assembled your oil pump you should have
"primed the pump", as it were, by drenching the installed impellers
with engine oil.

When I overhauled my Lyc O-320 many moons ago, I hand turned the prop
(no spark plugs in cylinders) with the line to the oil cooler
disconnected until oil started to flow from the line. Then, as per SI
1241c, I pre-filled the oil cooler, attached the oil cooler line, and
cranked the engine with the starter until engine oil pressure showed
on the cockpit oil pressure gauge. Pressure came up in less than 5
seconds. Then I put the plugs back in, did a final check, turned on
the electric fuel pump, did another check for fuel leaks, and fired up
the engine while a buddy stood by with a fire extinguisher watching
for leaks etc.

Have fun!

David O -- http://www.AirplaneZone.com

[Larry Smith]

"Dave Hyde" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone got any suggestions on how to pre-oil
> a Lyc. O-320 before its first run?
>
> Dave 'it might just be a train' Hyde
>

We use a pre-oiler here. We adjust the airpressure to the oil-filled tank
to cruise pressure and run the pressure oil from a line on the tank to the
oil galley on the engine. Then we watch until the oil gauge shows the
pressure we want. Which is higher in a Lyc than in a Cont. But it seems to
me 30 psi should do it.

I know an engineer-restorer who has made his own pressurizer from a handheld
pump-type insecticide sprayer. He welded or soldered a screw-in fitting
onto its business end. I saw him get 20 pounds on an old Continental
before cranking it, which is fine.

I may have pressurised mine a little too much because I fouled my plugs.

For a new engine or newly rebuilt engine the manifest weight of authority
hereabouts is that you should pressurise with a pre-oiler before cranking
the engine.

[Veeduber]

To All:
I use a blow-molded garden sprayer, plugged into the main oil gallery via a
barbed hose fitting in the pressure port. I keep pressure on the bottle until
I see oil at all of the rocker arms, indicating the push-rods have filled.
Pre-luber is then removed, oil pressure sender replaced, sump topped up.

I've used this method for more than twenty years on VW engines. And one or two
others :-) Seems to work okay.

-R.S.Hoover

[Dave Hyde]

David O wrote:

> Lycoming's service instruction 1241c (still active) addresses the
> subject of pre-oiling after overhaul,

Thanks to all - I have the service instruction, I was looking for
other ideas on pressurizing the system. Bought a sprayer today,
if it works I'll use it, if not I'll just cold-crank the engine.

Acro/tailwheel refresher starts tomorrow.

Dave 'one-armed paperhanger' Hyde

[Bruce A. Frank]

The method that I have used on automotive engines is to take an old
distributor shaft with no cam gear on it. Remove the distributor from
the engine block, chuck the old shaft in a 1/2 drill, stick it down the
shaft hole until it engages the oil pump and spin away. I have been able
to develop full oil pressure on new engines that way. Would a similar
concept work on a magneto shaft hole?

Dave Hyde wrote:
>
> David O wrote:
>
> > Lycoming's service instruction 1241c (still active) addresses the
> > subject of pre-oiling after overhaul,
>
> Thanks to all - I have the service instruction, I was looking for
> other ideas on pressurizing the system. Bought a sprayer today,
> if it works I'll use it, if not I'll just cold-crank the engine.
>
> Acro/tailwheel refresher starts tomorrow.
>
> Dave 'one-armed paperhanger' Hyde
>

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

[Bruce A. Frank]

Cy,

We are all here to learn...well some of us are. Do you know have the
energy to elaborate as to why? Or do you just enjoy being abrupt?

I do know the answer now because Veeduber went to the trouble to
privately email me and explain the differences between the engine
designs. You had a chance to enlighten others here on RAH. I am sure
there would have been one or two who would have appreciated a more
complete answer.

Cy Galley wrote:
>
> In a word NO!
> "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The method that I have used on automotive engines is to take an old
> > distributor shaft with no cam gear on it. Remove the distributor from
> > the engine block, chuck the old shaft in a 1/2 drill, stick it down the
> > shaft hole until it engages the oil pump and spin away. I have been able
> > to develop full oil pressure on new engines that way. Would a similar
> > concept work on a magneto shaft hole?
> >
> > Dave Hyde wrote:
> > >
> > > David O wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lycoming's service instruction 1241c (still active) addresses the
> > > > subject of pre-oiling after overhaul,
> > >
> > > Thanks to all - I have the service instruction, I was looking for
> > > other ideas on pressurizing the system. Bought a sprayer today,
> > > if it works I'll use it, if not I'll just cold-crank the engine.
> > >
> > > Acro/tailwheel refresher starts tomorrow.
> > >
> > > Dave 'one-armed paperhanger' Hyde
> > >

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

[Kevin Horton]

Bruce,

Well, now that you know the answer, why not share it with us?

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:56:15 +0000, Bruce A. Frank wrote:

> Cy,
>
> We are all here to learn...well some of us are. Do you know have the
> energy to elaborate as to why? Or do you just enjoy being abrupt?
>
> I do know the answer now because Veeduber went to the trouble to privately
> email me and explain the differences between the engine designs. You had a
> chance to enlighten others here on RAH. I am sure there would have been
> one or two who would have appreciated a more complete answer.
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
>>
>> In a word NO!
>> "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > The method that I have used on automotive engines is to take an old
>> > distributor shaft with no cam gear on it. Remove the distributor from
>> > the engine block, chuck the old shaft in a 1/2 drill, stick it down
>> > the shaft hole until it engages the oil pump and spin away. I have
>> > been able to develop full oil pressure on new engines that way. Would
>> > a similar concept work on a magneto shaft hole?
>> >

--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa

[Dave Anderson]

Bruce that doesn't work because the oil pump on an aircraft engine is
separate from the magneto drive gear. You can't get the aircraft oil pump
turning without turning the crankshaft.

"Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
...
> Cy,
>
> We are all here to learn...well some of us are. Do you know have the
> energy to elaborate as to why? Or do you just enjoy being abrupt?
>
> I do know the answer now because Veeduber went to the trouble to
> privately email me and explain the differences between the engine
> designs. You had a chance to enlighten others here on RAH. I am sure
> there would have been one or two who would have appreciated a more
> complete answer.
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
> >
> > In a word NO!
> > "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The method that I have used on automotive engines is to take an old
> > > distributor shaft with no cam gear on it. Remove the distributor from
> > > the engine block, chuck the old shaft in a 1/2 drill, stick it down
the
> > > shaft hole until it engages the oil pump and spin away. I have been
able
> > > to develop full oil pressure on new engines that way. Would a similar
> > > concept work on a magneto shaft hole?
> > >
> > > Dave Hyde wrote:
> > > >
> > > > David O wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Lycoming's service instruction 1241c (still active) addresses the
> > > > > subject of pre-oiling after overhaul,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks to all - I have the service instruction, I was looking for
> > > > other ideas on pressurizing the system. Bought a sprayer today,
> > > > if it works I'll use it, if not I'll just cold-crank the engine.
> > > >
> > > > Acro/tailwheel refresher starts tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > Dave 'one-armed paperhanger' Hyde
> > > >
>
> --
> Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
> Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
> | Publishing interesting material|
> | on all aspects of alternative |
> | engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

[Cy Galley]

In the automotive engine the same gear on the cam drives the distributor and
the oil pump. It is so designed that the oil pump is driven by a tang off
the distributor shaft but the gear is on the distributor end. Removing the
distributor, removes the gear drive and also disconnects the oil pump drive.
The oil pump can then be driven by a shaft independently of the cam.
On the other hand the mag is driven by a gear train off the cam and the oil
pump is driven by its own dedicated gear. Removing the mag does not remove
or disconnect the oil pump drive so that it can be driven by a mechanical
source outside the engine.
The configuration for driving the oil pump is completely different. Yes, I
have lost the oil pump drive in an automotive setup and still had proper
ignition. If you lose the distributor drive, then you would also lose your
oil pump. Since the aircraft engine is designed differently with a
different drive of the oil pump, this cannot happen.
You can lose the ignition and still have oil pressure.
But you cannot prime the oil system in an aircraft engine via the mag drive
unless you turn the entire engine. Much easier to turn the prop or starter.
In a word NO!

"Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
...
> Cy,
>
> We are all here to learn...well some of us are. Do you know have the
> energy to elaborate as to why? Or do you just enjoy being abrupt?
>
> I do know the answer now because Veeduber went to the trouble to
> privately email me and explain the differences between the engine
> designs. You had a chance to enlighten others here on RAH. I am sure
> there would have been one or two who would have appreciated a more
> complete answer.
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
> >
> > In a word NO!
> > "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The method that I have used on automotive engines is to take an old
> > > distributor shaft with no cam gear on it. Remove the distributor from
> > > the engine block, chuck the old shaft in a 1/2 drill, stick it down
the
> > > shaft hole until it engages the oil pump and spin away. I have been
able
> > > to develop full oil pressure on new engines that way. Would a similar
> > > concept work on a magneto shaft hole?
> > >
> > > Dave Hyde wrote:
> > > >
> > > > David O wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Lycoming's service instruction 1241c (still active) addresses the
> > > > > subject of pre-oiling after overhaul,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks to all - I have the service instruction, I was looking for
> > > > other ideas on pressurizing the system. Bought a sprayer today,
> > > > if it works I'll use it, if not I'll just cold-crank the engine.
> > > >
> > > > Acro/tailwheel refresher starts tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > Dave 'one-armed paperhanger' Hyde
> > > >
>
> --
> Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
> Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
> | Publishing interesting material|
> | on all aspects of alternative |
> | engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

[Bruce A. Frank]

Gee, BOb, I don't "KNOW" I have just received a simple explanation. Some
of the guys here are intimately involved with assembly of aviation
engines. I am not

Barnyard BOb -- wrote:
>
> >> "Bruce A. Frank" wrote:
> >> > The method that I have used on automotive engines is to take an old
> >> > distributor shaft with no cam gear on it. Remove the distributor from
> >> > the engine block, chuck the old shaft in a 1/2 drill, stick it down the
> >> > shaft hole until it engages the oil pump and spin away. I have been able
> >> > to develop full oil pressure on new engines that way. Would a similar
> >> > concept work on a magneto shaft hole?
>
> >Cy Galley wrote:
> >>
> >> In a word NO!
>
> "Bruce A. Frank" hypocritically? whines:
>
> >Cy,
> >
> >We are all here to learn...well some of us are. Do you know have the
> .................................................. ...................................^^^^^
> >energy to elaborate as to why? Or do you just enjoy being abrupt?
> >
> >I do know the answer now because Veeduber went to the trouble to
> >privately email me and explain the differences between the engine
> >designs. You had a chance to enlighten others here on RAH. I am sure
> >there would have been one or two who would have appreciated a more
> >complete answer.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Sheesh.
> And now, you just fumbled the knowledge ball, too,
> for those who awaited a more complete answer.
> Where is YOUR concern for the anxious masses,
> yearning to be 'enlightened' and free of ignorance?.
>
> FWIW....
> I would have done the same as Cy with a simple NO,
> but that is expected of me... but, not YOU. <sniff>
> I guess the world really is going to hell in a handbasket.
>
> P.S.
> No need to tell me why the answer is 'NO'.
> I already know.
> But, you know that.... NO?
>
> Barnyard BOb -- now, what part of no doesn't anyone understand?

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding

While trying to find the time to finish mine.

[Bruce A. Frank]

Thank you. That was more in-depth than I could have conveyed trying to
restate what Veeduber had told me.

Cy Galley wrote:
>
> In the automotive engine the same gear on the cam drives the distributor and
> the oil pump. It is so designed that the oil pump is driven by a tang off
> the distributor shaft but the gear is on the distributor end. Removing the
> distributor, removes the gear drive and also disconnects the oil pump drive.
> The oil pump can then be driven by a shaft independently of the cam.
> On the other hand the mag is driven by a gear train off the cam and the oil
> pump is driven by its own dedicated gear. Removing the mag does not remove
> or disconnect the oil pump drive so that it can be driven by a mechanical
> source outside the engine.
> The configuration for driving the oil pump is completely different. Yes, I
> have lost the oil pump drive in an automotive setup and still had proper
> ignition. If you lose the distributor drive, then you would also lose your
> oil pump. Since the aircraft engine is designed differently with a
> different drive of the oil pump, this cannot happen.
> You can lose the ignition and still have oil pressure.
> But you cannot prime the oil system in an aircraft engine via the mag drive
> unless you turn the entire engine. Much easier to turn the prop or starter.
> In a word NO!
>
> "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Cy,
> >
> > We are all here to learn...well some of us are. Do you know have the
> > energy to elaborate as to why? Or do you just enjoy being abrupt?
> >
> > I do know the answer now because Veeduber went to the trouble to
> > privately email me and explain the differences between the engine
> > designs. You had a chance to enlighten others here on RAH. I am sure
> > there would have been one or two who would have appreciated a more
> > complete answer.
> >
> > Cy Galley wrote:
> > >
> > > In a word NO!
> > > "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > The method that I have used on automotive engines is to take an old
> > > > distributor shaft with no cam gear on it. Remove the distributor from
> > > > the engine block, chuck the old shaft in a 1/2 drill, stick it down
> the
> > > > shaft hole until it engages the oil pump and spin away. I have been
> able
> > > > to develop full oil pressure on new engines that way. Would a similar
> > > > concept work on a magneto shaft hole?
> > > >
> > > > Dave Hyde wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > David O wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Lycoming's service instruction 1241c (still active) addresses the
> > > > > > subject of pre-oiling after overhaul,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks to all - I have the service instruction, I was looking for
> > > > > other ideas on pressurizing the system. Bought a sprayer today,
> > > > > if it works I'll use it, if not I'll just cold-crank the engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Acro/tailwheel refresher starts tomorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave 'one-armed paperhanger' Hyde
> > > > >

--
Bruce A. Frank