Cockpit digital cameras?

[Bullwinkle]

Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?

Looking for:
Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket compatible. I've also
got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although length and
width is fine
Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)

Don't need:
Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
Interchangeable lenses
Bulk

Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
would like to share their experiences?

Thanks,
Bullwinkle

[Markus Graeber]

I am just going through this process. A good place to start is
http://www.dpreview.com/. Go to Buying Guide -> Features Search on the
left menu and select the criteria that are important to you. E.g. I
used:

Format - Ultra Compact (to keep it small)
Zoom wide (W) - < 28mm (to get a wide angle lens for those nice
panorama shots out of the cockpit)

You can also add a "Sensor photo detectors" criterion but any cameras
that come up with above criteria will be 5 Mega pixels or more. I am
looking closely at the Canon PowerShot SD800 IS and the Panasonic
Lumix versions, I might go with the Canon but have not decided yet, a
friend of mine who is a professional aerial photographer has it for
daily use and seems to be pretty happy with it.

Hope this helps,

Markus

On Jun 13, 10:48 am, Bullwinkle > wrote:
> Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?
>
> Looking for:
> Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket compatible. I've also
> got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although length and
> width is fine
> Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
> Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)
>
> Don't need:
> Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
> Interchangeable lenses
> Bulk
>
> Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
> would like to share their experiences?
>
> Thanks,
> Bullwinkle

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Bullwinkle wrote:
> Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?
>
> Looking for:
> Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket compatible. I've also
> got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although length and
> width is fine
> Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
> Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)
>
> Don't need:
> Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
> Interchangeable lenses
> Bulk
>
> Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
> would like to share their experiences?
>
I'm interested in this too, but I'd suggest another couple of things
that would be nice:

- no pop-out lens. A camera without a pop-out lens can be mounted on
the canopy rail close to the canopy without fear of the lens
ramming the perspex and damaging something.

- low power consumption and without an automatic 'off timer' or with
one than can be disabled.

If you don't mind dropping to a mere 3 Mpixels, I notice that Nikon
Coolpix 775s are selling cheaply on eBay. It looks like a suitable
camera for use in a glider, though having handled one, they are almost
too small for easy one-handed operation and they do have a pop-out lens.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Bruce]

Markus

Have used an Olympus as a PHD (Push here dummy) camera for years. It often gets
to take the pictures my D80 can't because I can't get it in the cockpit safely...

The key to good pictures is
1] the photographer
2] the lens quality
3] pixel count
4] format (JPG, RAW TIFF etc.)

I would consider the C-5500 Sport Zoom if I was looking for a rugged, cheap and
cheerful 5Mp camera that can still take great pictures. Most of the expensive
"features" on more expensive models are just brochure clutter. The C7000 series
is an alternative if you want the features...

Quite often getting the picture is more dependant on simplicity and speed of use
of the camera. The Olympus guys are good here. Similarly, if it's going to be in
the glider it had best be able to handle some abuse.

FWIW I have taken some pics from the back seat of a K13 with my D80 and a
18-200VR zoom. Really amazing (technical)quality pictures - now if we could just
do something about the user...

[Jack]

Bruce wrote:

> I would consider the C-5500 Sport Zoom if I was looking for a rugged,
> cheap and cheerful 5Mp camera that can still take great pictures.


Probably what's needed is a camera that is still available today.


Jack

[[email protected]]

On Jun 13, 11:13 am, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> Bullwinkle wrote:
> > Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?
>
> > Looking for:
> > Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket compatible. I've also
> > got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although length and
> > width is fine
> > Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
> > Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)
>
> > Don't need:
> > Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
> > Interchangeable lenses
> > Bulk
>
> > Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
> > would like to share their experiences?
>
> I'm interested in this too, but I'd suggest another couple of things
> that would be nice:
>
> - no pop-out lens. A camera without a pop-out lens can be mounted on
> the canopy rail close to the canopy without fear of the lens
> ramming the perspex and damaging something.
>
> - low power consumption and without an automatic 'off timer' or with
> one than can be disabled.
>
> If you don't mind dropping to a mere 3 Mpixels, I notice that Nikon
> Coolpix 775s are selling cheaply on eBay. It looks like a suitable
> camera for use in a glider, though having handled one, they are almost
> too small for easy one-handed operation and they do have a pop-out lens.
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

ive got a sony something or another 7 megapixel camera that i got at
Best buy a few years back. it would fit in a breat pocket on a
shirt. its always taken some nice pictures during my flights in the
cherokee, and some really amazing shots of the landouts!

[Michael Ash]

Bullwinkle > wrote:
> Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?
[snip]
> Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
> would like to share their experiences?

The advice given by the others in this thread is undoubtedly much better
than my own, but I have a lot of pictures posted on my web site so I
thought you might find that to be useful.

I have a Nikon E7600. I didn't purchase it for flying, it just ended up
getting used that way. I have a Canon DSLR which takes much better
pictures but it's simply too bulky to take in the cockpit, so I fully
agree with your decision to look at the smaller ones.

The Nikon is not a great camera. It tends to produce fairly grainy or
blurry shots unless the lighting is really good, and the shutter delay is
a frustrating second or so while I have to keep the camera pointed at my
target, but it does alright. I'm not really recommending this camera, but
more just demonstrating what it will get you.

Anyway, you can see some of my pictures taken with this camera here:

http://tinyurl.com/yutd54

The ones from in the air were all taken with it, with the exception of a
few shots taken with my camera phone, which should be obvious because
they're the ones which look like they were painted by someone with the
wrong prescription for his glasses.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[Nyal Williams]

I can't claim any expertise in this subject and I don't
often take pictures from the cockpit. It is worth
comment, however, that you should have as much optical
zoom as you can find and that you should forget the
digital zoom altogether. The digital zoom is especially
grainy.

One other comment: the optical viewfinder on my Minolta
Z-1 is so grainy and grayed out as to make it useless
in the air, even though it works fine on the ground.
There is no way to find a glider in flight either
with the view finder or the ground glass viewer on
the back.

At 17:48 13 June 2007, Michael Ash wrote:
>Bullwinkle wrote:
>> Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to
>>take in the cockpit?
>[snip]
>> Anybody already been through the process of evaluating
>>and selecting who
>> would like to share their experiences?
>
>The advice given by the others in this thread is undoubtedly
>much better
>than my own, but I have a lot of pictures posted on
>my web site so I
>thought you might find that to be useful.
>
>I have a Nikon E7600. I didn't purchase it for flying,
>it just ended up
>getting used that way. I have a Canon DSLR which takes
>much better
>pictures but it's simply too bulky to take in the cockpit,
>so I fully
>agree with your decision to look at the smaller ones.
>
>The Nikon is not a great camera. It tends to produce
>fairly grainy or
>blurry shots unless the lighting is really good, and
>the shutter delay is
>a frustrating second or so while I have to keep the
>camera pointed at my
>target, but it does alright. I'm not really recommending
>this camera, but
>more just demonstrating what it will get you.
>
>Anyway, you can see some of my pictures taken with
>this camera here:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yutd54
>
>The ones from in the air were all taken with it, with
>the exception of a
>few shots taken with my camera phone, which should
>be obvious because
>they're the ones which look like they were painted
>by someone with the
>wrong prescription for his glasses.
>
>--
>Michael Ash
>Rogue Amoeba Software
>

[Dan G]

On Jun 13, 5:12 pm, Markus Graeber > wrote:
> I am looking closely at the Canon PowerShot SD800 IS

Just got one of these - I think it's rather good. The killer feature
is the 28mm wide-angle lens - no other camera the size has one, and
while it doesn't sound much wider than (say) 35mm it makes a big
difference to what you can fit in the frame. The image stabilisation
should also help with zoom shots.

Worth noting that the other new Canon SD - the 900 - has no wide angle
(37mm), and no image stabilisation, trading them for more megapixels
(which you don't need) and a titanium body (ditto).


Dan

[Ed Winchester]

Bullwinkle wrote:
> Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?
>
> Looking for:
> Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket compatible. I've also
> got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although length and
> width is fine
> Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
> Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)
>
> Don't need:
> Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
> Interchangeable lenses
> Bulk
>
> Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
> would like to share their experiences?
>
> Thanks,
> Bullwinkle
>

I use a Casio Exilim EX-Z60. It's a 6MP, 3x optical zoom camera that's
quite small. On the negative side, it does have a pop-out lens, but
when not in the picture mode, it fits nicely in a shirt pocket. No
viewfinder, just the fairly large screen on the back. I like it, but I
admit I haven't taken it up with me (it's really my wife's, she'd kill me.)

Ed

[Forest Baskett]

At 20:12 13 June 2007, Dan G wrote:
>On Jun 13, 5:12 pm, Markus Graeber wrote:
>> I am looking closely at the Canon PowerShot SD800
>>IS
>
>Just got one of these - I think it's rather good. The
>killer feature
>is the 28mm wide-angle lens - no other camera the size
>has one, and
>while it doesn't sound much wider than (say) 35mm it
>makes a big
>difference to what you can fit in the frame. The image
>stabilisation
>should also help with zoom shots.
>
>Worth noting that the other new Canon SD - the 900
>- has no wide angle
>(37mm), and no image stabilisation, trading them for
>more megapixels
>(which you don't need) and a titanium body (ditto).
>
>
>Dan
>
>
The Canon's seem to have substantially faster shutter
response than most, a very important feature to me.
Several of them, like this one, have image stabilization,
another good feature when you are in a moving platform.
A third feature important to me is a close to the
eye viewfinder. A large number of small cameras require
that you use the big screen on the back of the camera
as the viewfinder. I find those really hard to aim
by comparison. If you like AA batteries you can get
that with a 'slightly' larger camera body. With all
that, look at the Canon A570 IS and the Canon A710
IS. The latter has a 6x optical zoom, both start at
35mm. Both are 7 MP.

Forest

[ucsdcpc]

An optical view finder for when the glare is too strong to see the LCD display
and a "landscape" or similar setting that forces the focus to infinity so you
don't accidentally take a perfectly focussed shot of the inside of the canopy or
the string :-)

Forest Baskett wrote:
> At 20:12 13 June 2007, Dan G wrote:
>> On Jun 13, 5:12 pm, Markus Graeber wrote:
>>> I am looking closely at the Canon PowerShot SD800
>>> IS
>> Just got one of these - I think it's rather good. The
>> killer feature
>> is the 28mm wide-angle lens - no other camera the size
>> has one, and
>> while it doesn't sound much wider than (say) 35mm it
>> makes a big
>> difference to what you can fit in the frame. The image
>> stabilisation
>> should also help with zoom shots.
>>
>> Worth noting that the other new Canon SD - the 900
>> - has no wide angle
>> (37mm), and no image stabilisation, trading them for
>> more megapixels
>> (which you don't need) and a titanium body (ditto).
>>
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
> The Canon's seem to have substantially faster shutter
> response than most, a very important feature to me.
> Several of them, like this one, have image stabilization,
> another good feature when you are in a moving platform.
> A third feature important to me is a close to the
> eye viewfinder. A large number of small cameras require
> that you use the big screen on the back of the camera
> as the viewfinder. I find those really hard to aim
> by comparison. If you like AA batteries you can get
> that with a 'slightly' larger camera body. With all
> that, look at the Canon A570 IS and the Canon A710
> IS. The latter has a 6x optical zoom, both start at
> 35mm. Both are 7 MP.
>
> Forest
>
>
>

[Michael Ash]

Nyal Williams > wrote:
> I can't claim any expertise in this subject and I don't
> often take pictures from the cockpit. It is worth
> comment, however, that you should have as much optical
> zoom as you can find and that you should forget the
> digital zoom altogether. The digital zoom is especially
> grainy.

This is definitely the case. Digital zoom is worse than useless. It does
nothing that you can't do on your computer after you get home, but it
throws away the rest of the picture and you can't get it back. If you
anticipate wanting to "digitally zoom", then just take the picture at
maximum optical zoom and then crop/enlarge it on your computer afterwards.

> One other comment: the optical viewfinder on my Minolta
> Z-1 is so grainy and grayed out as to make it useless
> in the air, even though it works fine on the ground.
> There is no way to find a glider in flight either
> with the view finder or the ground glass viewer on
> the back.

About a week ago I took a couple of nice air-to-air shots of my club's
Grob 103. Or so I thought. I got home and the Grob was nowhere in sight:
the white shape I had seen on my camera's screen was actually a building.
I haven't done this much, but I have a feeling that reliable air-to-air
pictures require the other glider to be so close that it would be
dangerous without a dedicated cameraman.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[Stefan]

ucsdcpc schrieb:

> a "landscape" or similar setting that forces the focus to
> infinity so you don't accidentally take a perfectly focussed shot of the
> inside of the canopy or the string :-)

You mean, like this: http://home.balcab.ch/stefan/public/picture_009.jpg

:-)

[Tom[_6_]]

I use the Casio Exilim. A small package with a good LCD for view finding.
7.2 MP and has features I use while flying; anti-shake, movies, voice
record.


"Bullwinkle" > wrote in message
...
> Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?
>
> Looking for:
> Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket compatible. I've also
> got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although length
> and
> width is fine
> Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
> Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)
>
> Don't need:
> Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
> Interchangeable lenses
> Bulk
>
> Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
> would like to share their experiences?
>
> Thanks,
> Bullwinkle
>

[John Scott]

I've had good luck with a Canon SD400. Well, except for putting it in my
shirt pocket and then mashing the LCD under the straps. I turned it on in
flight and the "image" on the LCD looked like the side of a dairy cow.
Still took some good pics. Canon repaired it free of charge. I'll be more
careful in the future.

John Scott

[Bruce]

Jack wrote:
> Bruce wrote:
>
>> I would consider the C-5500 Sport Zoom if I was looking for a rugged,
>> cheap and cheerful 5Mp camera that can still take great pictures.
>
>
>
> Probably what's needed is a camera that is still available today.
>
>
> Jack
Not necessarily - many digital cameras get very little use. They take as good
pictures a couple of years later, and cost a fraction of new. That way, when it
lands in the mud puddle it hurts less...

The PC style obsession with continually reducing cost means that some of the
older versions are more rugged too.

If you just want something that will take a simple wide angle 5Imp picture there
are cell phones that can do that. No pop up lens, no focus needed (wide angle at
hyper focal distance) and loads of pixels. Some of them even have half way
decent lens quality - a fixed focus lens is easier to make.

[Bruce]

Forest Baskett wrote:
> At 20:12 13 June 2007, Dan G wrote:
>
>>On Jun 13, 5:12 pm, Markus Graeber wrote:
>>
>>>I am looking closely at the Canon PowerShot SD800
>>>IS
>>
>>Just got one of these - I think it's rather good. The
>>killer feature
>>is the 28mm wide-angle lens - no other camera the size
>>has one, and
>>while it doesn't sound much wider than (say) 35mm it
>>makes a big
>>difference to what you can fit in the frame. The image
>>stabilisation
>>should also help with zoom shots.
>>
>>Worth noting that the other new Canon SD - the 900
>>- has no wide angle
>>(37mm), and no image stabilisation, trading them for
>>more megapixels
>>(which you don't need) and a titanium body (ditto).
>>
>>
>>Dan
>>
>>
>
> The Canon's seem to have substantially faster shutter
> response than most, a very important feature to me.

Good point - it is probably the worst problem with most of the pocket cameras.
In my limited experience the Sony cameras have a very long delay - wife uses a
Sony DSC-H2 for her work. Great for portraits, and landscapes, disastrous for
sport.
Canon are doing great things with their cameras at present - certainly have a
better line of pocket cameras than Nikon.



> Several of them, like this one, have image stabilization,
> another good feature when you are in a moving platform.
> A third feature important to me is a close to the
> eye viewfinder. A large number of small cameras require
> that you use the big screen on the back of the camera
> as the viewfinder. I find those really hard to aim
> by comparison. If you like AA batteries you can get
> that with a 'slightly' larger camera body. With all
> that, look at the Canon A570 IS and the Canon A710
> IS. The latter has a 6x optical zoom, both start at
> 35mm. Both are 7 MP.
>
> Forest
>
>
>

[Bruce]

Martin Gregorie wrote:
> Bullwinkle wrote:
>
>> Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?
>>
>> Looking for: Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket
>> compatible. I've also
>> got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although
>> length and
>> width is fine
>> Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
>> Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)
>>
>> Don't need:
>> Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
>> Interchangeable lenses
>> Bulk
>>
>> Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
>> would like to share their experiences?
>>
> I'm interested in this too, but I'd suggest another couple of things
> that would be nice:
>
> - no pop-out lens. A camera without a pop-out lens can be mounted on
> the canopy rail close to the canopy without fear of the lens
> ramming the perspex and damaging something.
>
> - low power consumption and without an automatic 'off timer' or with
> one than can be disabled.
>
> If you don't mind dropping to a mere 3 Mpixels, I notice that Nikon
> Coolpix 775s are selling cheaply on eBay. It looks like a suitable
> camera for use in a glider, though having handled one, they are almost
> too small for easy one-handed operation and they do have a pop-out lens.
>
>
If you want a new model that does not have the pop up lens look at the Olympus
Stylus 720 / 770SW

They are resistant to the kind of abuse that will leave many of their
competitors in expensive kit form. Particularly useful is low temperature
capability.

The 770SW even has a manometer function for enriching your EXIF information with
altitude.

Limited optical zoom range because of the internal movement design, but you
can't have everything.

The perfect camera for you - if you can accept the compromises and cost?

[Bruce]

Bullwinkle wrote:
> Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?
>
> Looking for:
> Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket compatible. I've also
> got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although length and
> width is fine
> Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
> Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)
>
> Don't need:
> Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
> Interchangeable lenses
> Bulk
>
> Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
> would like to share their experiences?
>
> Thanks,
> Bullwinkle
>
Go look at

http://www.imaging-resource.com

They have a lot of categorised reviews of cameras including point and shoot.
Examples of what you are looking for. No pop out lens, 7MP etc...

Olympus.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/OS770SW/OS770SWA.HTM

Nikon.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/CPS50C/CPS50CA.HTM


Also consider? (pop out lens)

Panasonic.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/FX30/FX30A.HTM

Canon (Nice lens)
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/A710/A710A.HTM

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/A550/A550A.HTM

If you are wanting to take pictures of other gliders from the cockpit you will
want a 200mm equivalent lens...

Read - http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm for interesting info about digital
photography.

He has a Spring 2007 camera guide out.

He is partly to blame for me shelling out for a D80 to replace my F3 - I have to
take responsibility for still taking poor pictures.

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Bruce wrote:
> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> Bullwinkle wrote:
>>
>>> Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?
>>>
>>> Looking for: Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket
>>> compatible. I've also
>>> got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although
>>> length and
>>> width is fine
>>> Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
>>> Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)
>>>
>>> Don't need:
>>> Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
>>> Interchangeable lenses
>>> Bulk
>>>
>>> Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
>>> would like to share their experiences?
>>>
>> I'm interested in this too, but I'd suggest another couple of things
>> that would be nice:
>>
>> - no pop-out lens. A camera without a pop-out lens can be mounted on
>> the canopy rail close to the canopy without fear of the lens
>> ramming the perspex and damaging something.
>>
>> - low power consumption and without an automatic 'off timer' or with
>> one than can be disabled.
>>
>> If you don't mind dropping to a mere 3 Mpixels, I notice that Nikon
>> Coolpix 775s are selling cheaply on eBay. It looks like a suitable
>> camera for use in a glider, though having handled one, they are almost
>> too small for easy one-handed operation and they do have a pop-out lens.
>>
>>
> If you want a new model that does not have the pop up lens look at the
> Olympus Stylus 720 / 770SW
>
> They are resistant to the kind of abuse that will leave many of their
> competitors in expensive kit form. Particularly useful is low
> temperature capability.
>
> The 770SW even has a manometer function for enriching your EXIF
> information with altitude.
>
> Limited optical zoom range because of the internal movement design, but
> you can't have everything.
>
> The perfect camera for you - if you can accept the compromises and cost?
>
Its an interesting beast. I see the zoom range is 38mm - 114mm: 28mm
wide angle would be nice to have for gliding.

Judging by a quick search (and a look at eBay) the 720 was never
released in the UK or was never popular. I didn't find one on offer
though there are plenty of 720SW and 725SW cameras. Is that the case
elsewhere as well?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Michael Ash wrote:
>
> This is definitely the case. Digital zoom is worse than useless. It does
> nothing that you can't do on your computer after you get home, but it
> throws away the rest of the picture and you can't get it back. If you
> anticipate wanting to "digitally zoom", then just take the picture at
> maximum optical zoom and then crop/enlarge it on your computer afterwards.
>
Good advice. Remember to use max resolution on the camera as well.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Ray Lovinggood]

I agree with Forest: The Canon A710IS looks quite
interesting for cockpit or any use. I don't have one,
but a coworker just bought one. In America, the price
seems to be around US$250.

Not bad for a camera with:
6x Zoom (35mm - 210mm equivalent) (yea, 28mm would
be nicer to have)
Image Stabilization
7.1 megapixels
Uses only 2 double A size batteries

I have a Canon A75 camera (3 megapixels and 3x zoom,
no image stabilization except for steady hands or tripod,
neither of which I have) that does well as a 'snap-shooter.'
The four batteries make it heavier than the models
using two batteries, but they last a long time. I
use rechargeable batteries and I can get a lot a shots
from them before recharging. If I forget to charge
them, finding double A's at a local store is easy.

Here's one review: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona710is/

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

[qfly]

I'm not photographer or expert but here's my opinion. Like the
original poster, I wanted a camera that easily fit in my pocket. If
sub-compact size is at the top of your list of requirements I wouldn't
worry about choosing a camera that uses 'AA' batteries. The NiMh and
Lithium Ion batteries that many of today's cameras are using provide
plenty of juice for an entire day's usage, and are much smaller in
size. Currently you just can't get a big zoom lens with a sub-compact
camera. This pretty much rules out air-to-air shots with a sub-
compact camera; however, there still some good photos and video to be
had. One exception might be the Canon Powershot G7 with it's 6X
zoom. The G7 is larger than some but it's still small.

I just recently bought a Cannon Powershot SD1000 (mini elfe) and so
far I'm very happy with my choice. The square case is easy to grip.
The new DIGIC III image processor seems to do a great job and the ISO
capabilities of this camera allow it to do well without image
stabilization. This keeps the cost down. Choosing infinity focus is
easy and this camera still retains a view finder. I like that I can
easily fit it through the vent window and take pictures and video from
outside of the glider (I use the wrist strap, of course). It uses
standard SD memory cards which are pretty cheap now.

A good site for reviews is Steve's Digicams.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html

For sub-compact cameras you can buy a micro-mesh sunglasses slip case
from any good sunglasses store that the camera will easily fit into.
This way dirt and other objects in your pocket won't scratch the
screen and case. You can wipe finger prints off of the screen using
the inside of the case and the case is washable.

[[email protected]]

With 7.2 megapixels, the Sony DSC-P200 is excellent for cockpit
photography. Check out some samples here: http://www.fabyan.com/kaegiswil/index.html

Regards,
Roderick
N301N / HB-2372

[stevehaley]

Anyone tried a Panasonic TZ3 in the cockpit (or out)
Downside is it hasnt got a viewfinder BUT It does have:-

28-280mm lens ie both a wide angle and 10x Zoom or 8x if you count
from 35mm
A 3" LCD screen which can made extra bright
Image stabalisation
uses SD cards (Like my logger and Ipaq)

Downside are:
It doesnt have a raw mode
No manual controls but then again who has got time to fly and fiddle
with manual controls it can however be set to take 3 shots each time
with a range of exposures.
Special Battery not AA with lower no of shots than many competitors
(270) and consequential higher cost.

Reveiws all say the same thing great as a point and shoot which is
probably what most pilots want and the extra bright option on the LCD
is supposed to make it usable in bright sunlight.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/PanasonicTZ3/page6.shtml
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonictz3/
http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews_panasonic_lumix_dmc_tz3_6.php

would love to hear from someone who has used this in the cockpit
before I splash out..

rgds
Stephen

[Jim Little]

I've used wide variety of digital cameras including Canon elph series,
as well as digital SLR's including the Nikon D70s, D200, and Canon
digital SLR's. My current favorite camera is the TZ3 from Panasonic.

Things I like about this camera, and the recent Panasonic cameras in
general:
-Very good Leica lens, this one has a 10x OPTICAL zoom, with an
equivalent range of 28-280 mm. I agree with prior comments about
digital zoom... useless. Get a GOOD optical zoom like this one. I
also agree for cockpit and snap shots having a 28 mm equivalent lens
is very desireable. I liked my prior canon Elph cameras, but the
lenses were pretty cheap, and very small. Larger lens opening means
more light gets to the sensor which is good, and they generally have
fewer optical defects especially when zoomed in.
-Leica actually sells a rebranded panasonic lumix camera, exact same
camera, electronics and lens, but you pay an extra $400 for the Leica
name.
-Image stabilization. This is key if you are taking pics from
cockpit, especially if you are trying to zoom in on other objects like
another glider in flight.
-Large display on back of camera that is easy to see.
-7 megapixels is plenty. There really is NO advantage to more than
that unless you are planning to print HUGE enlargements (ie larger
than poster size).
-FAST from shutter press to picture taken. This is the critical
weakness of MOST subcompact cameras. You push the shutter then pause-
pause-pause before the picture is actually snapped. This panasonic
camera has virtually NO lag from shutter push to picture taken in
outdoor lighting conditions.
-Good color reproduction. Every Canon Elph I've owned tends to
oversaturate the reds and oranges. The newer ones may not... but I
really like the colors on the Panasonic.
-Reasonably priced. You can find this camera online for under $300
US.

Things I do NOT like about this camera:
-Uses proprietary batteries, as do almost all subcompact cameras. I
really wish camera makers would adapt standard batteries, similar to
the way memory cards work in every camera. Of course... my digital
SLR's also use proprietary batteries! This means you need a different
battery charger for every camera/device you use... which is a huge
pain when traveling.
-No easy way to attach/use a circular polarizer filter. If I have one
filter that I LOVE it is a polarizer. It is probably the only reason
I hang onto my digital SLR. Circular polarizers dramatically reduce
canopy glare, and they REALLY make the blue sky stand out from the
clouds. I've you've never seen what a polarizer does to improve
outdoor photography, just google "circular polarizer tutorial". As
soon as someone figures out a good system to attach polarizer to a
good quality subcompact I will sell my digital SLR. My SLR is TOO BIG
to take in the glider when flying solo.

Good review of this camera (as well as very good reviews of ALL
digital cameras) online at:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonictz3/

Enjoy!

[Jim Little]

On Jun 16, 10:55 am, Jim Little > wrote:
>My current favorite camera is the TZ3 from Panasonic.

I should clarify... I don't actually own a TZ3, but I've used one
several times, as well as extensive use of a TZ1 from Panasonic. The
only reason I haven't bought the TZ3 yet... is I'm waiting for
Panasonic to release the FX100 in July:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0705/07052102panfx100.asp

The DMC-FX100 will be out in July and has pretty much everything the
TZ3 does, but it also shoots high def video! :-)

[Bullwinkle]

On 6/16/07 12:45 PM, in article
. com, "Jim Little"
> wrote:

> On Jun 16, 10:55 am, Jim Little > wrote:
>> My current favorite camera is the TZ3 from Panasonic.
>
> I should clarify... I don't actually own a TZ3, but I've used one
> several times, as well as extensive use of a TZ1 from Panasonic. The
> only reason I haven't bought the TZ3 yet... is I'm waiting for
> Panasonic to release the FX100 in July:
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0705/07052102panfx100.asp
>
> The DMC-FX100 will be out in July and has pretty much everything the
> TZ3 does, but it also shoots high def video! :-)
>


Thanks to all the folks who took time to reply to my initial message. You've
given me a lot to think about, and a lot of internet research to do.

Hopefully, I'll be getting some good cockpit shots soon.

Thanks, again,
Bullwinkle

[5Z]

A bit late to the thread, but I use a Kodak V570 dual lens camera -
see http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/v570.html for a
review. The cool part is that the wide angle lens is equivalent to a
23mm lens on a 35mm camera. Almost fisheye, so captures the cockpit
view very nicely. See a few posts to the SSA photo gallery I made
today at http://ssa.org/sport/PhotoGalleryMain.asp

One trick I've recently learned is to set the camera to underexpose
all my shots by a value of 1.0 on the exposure compensation built into
the cameras, then I use ACDSee photo software and with a single click,
bring out the shadows. That is how I get the nice colors without the
normal washout. The auto exposure of this and many other cameras
tends to over expose the image, and once that happens, you can't
darken it to look more natural. But an underexposed image still has
lots of detail hidden in the dark areas, so software can pull it out.

It also takes pretty good videos.

But - I have not had good luck with the telephoto for inflight
pictures. They typically turn out 'dirty' looking with everything a
bit out of focus. On the ground, the zoom takes very nice photos, so
I don't know what the dynamics are, but this camera will not take good
close ups of other aircraft or ground features. But to pass along the
feel of what it's like to be in the cockpit, I think it's great.

-Tom