1710 allison v-12 engine WWII p 38 engine

[Holger Stephan]

I was contacted with a question about this engine and since I know zip
about it I'd like to relay this to the group.

"My husband pulls modified tractors and has just switched over to his
first allison engine. He is having problems with his CG aircraft
carburetor , the engine starts on the priming fuel but won't continue
running. There is fuel pressure - but there seems to be a spot where
the fuel stops flowing.... (ignore the wifely tries at explaining this
please!) OK so what I'm looking for is a manual or a website that may
have some answers - do you have any ideas that can help?"

After receiving this question I asked for more detailed information
and received this:

"The engine is not a turbine and is not hooked to an aircraft. It is
sitting in a tractor frame for pulling (you know, they show it once
and a while on TV...) He pulls locally (a weighted sled to see how far
down the track he can get.)
OK other questions: It is a 1710 allison v-12 engine WWII p 38 engine.
The carburetor is a CG Aircraft Carburetor Model 1 685 F and we know
very little about it and we have even checked with Holley but they
said they don't keep manuals dating that far back. Someone should?
Wouldn't you think so?
My husband keeps telling me to type that the carburetor was used on
v-12 PT boats."

Can you guys help her? Contact me for a direct contact. I don't want
to blast it out without her permission.

Thanks!

Holger

[Corky Scott]

On 18 Aug 2003 01:41:56 -0700, (Holger Stephan)
wrote:

>I was contacted with a question about this engine and since I know zip
>about it I'd like to relay this to the group.
>
>"My husband pulls modified tractors and has just switched over to his
>first allison engine. He is having problems with his CG aircraft
>carburetor , the engine starts on the priming fuel but won't continue
>running. There is fuel pressure - but there seems to be a spot where
>the fuel stops flowing.... (ignore the wifely tries at explaining this
>please!) OK so what I'm looking for is a manual or a website that may
>have some answers - do you have any ideas that can help?"
>
>After receiving this question I asked for more detailed information
>and received this:
>
>"The engine is not a turbine and is not hooked to an aircraft. It is
>sitting in a tractor frame for pulling (you know, they show it once
>and a while on TV...) He pulls locally (a weighted sled to see how far
>down the track he can get.)
>OK other questions: It is a 1710 allison v-12 engine WWII p 38 engine.
>The carburetor is a CG Aircraft Carburetor Model 1 685 F and we know
>very little about it and we have even checked with Holley but they
>said they don't keep manuals dating that far back. Someone should?
>Wouldn't you think so?
>My husband keeps telling me to type that the carburetor was used on
>v-12 PT boats."
>
>Can you guys help her? Contact me for a direct contact. I don't want
>to blast it out without her permission.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Holger

Here's a possibility. Go to the "Glacier Girl" website
<http://www.irco.com/pressroom/irworld/archives/janfeb03/glaciergirl>,
it's the site created to cover the recovery and rebuilding of a P-38
that was buried in ice in Greenland.

It's now flying so they must have someone who knows how to get the
Allison's tuned properly.

Corky Scott

[Corrie]

Might try crossposting to the restoration and warbird community.
Lefty Gardner's "White Lighnin'" and Glacier Girl both have websites.
Most of the planes flown by this group weigh less than an Allison
1710. :-D


(Holger Stephan) wrote in message >...
> I was contacted with a question about this engine and since I know zip
> about it I'd like to relay this to the group.
>
> "My husband pulls modified tractors and has just switched over to his
> first allison engine. He is having problems with his CG aircraft
> carburetor , the engine starts on the priming fuel but won't continue
> running. There is fuel pressure - but there seems to be a spot where
> the fuel stops flowing.... (ignore the wifely tries at explaining this
> please!) OK so what I'm looking for is a manual or a website that may
> have some answers - do you have any ideas that can help?"


Back in the 70's I was working with a group trying to save the last
B-36. We were contacted by a fellow that wanted to buy the power
package - carb, oil cooler, etc. - for one of the six Pratt & Whitney
R-4360 corncob radials. Seem's he'd found one, still packed in
Cosmolene, in a shipping canister half-buried in a field. He was a
tractor guy, too.

[Big John]

Holger

Allison possible sources of info.

Where did you get engine? Did prior owner run? Possible source of info
for trouble shooting.

A shot in the dark. Aircraft carbs have a mixture control that you use
to shut engine down when stopping. Is Mixture Control in idle cut off?
If so put full rich and see if engine starts and runs.

Check:

Unlimited speed boat racers. Some used Allisons prior to going to
jets. Some may still do?
Air Force Museum at Wright Pat in Ohio.
Any P-39 sites. It used the Allison.
Any P-40 sites, It used the Allison.
Any PT boat sites and organizations.
Any other tractor dragsters using Allisons.
Confederate Air Force (They have a new name now to stay PC)
Look for another carb (in 'junk' yard) and sub for the one you have).
Look on web for carb rebuild places. Also ask any rebuilders in
your neighborhood who rebuilds that carb. If they don't they may
know where to go.
Can you find/buy a rebuild kit for the carb (with instructions)?
I may be wrong but believe the carb was a float type. If so, then
float or float valve might be stuck.

Saw a P-63 getting a 100 hour a few years ago and in talking to mech
he said that there were a number of places that rebuild Allisons.
Might inquire around and see if you can find and get any info on Carb?

Let us know how you make out with the 'old' Allison. Flew it in P-40's
years ago. Sounded like a box of bolts in a tin can vs the Merlin.


Big John


On 18 Aug 2003 01:41:56 -0700, (Holger Stephan)
wrote:

>I was contacted with a question about this engine and since I know zip
>about it I'd like to relay this to the group.
>
>"My husband pulls modified tractors and has just switched over to his
>first allison engine. He is having problems with his CG aircraft
>carburetor , the engine starts on the priming fuel but won't continue
>running. There is fuel pressure - but there seems to be a spot where
>the fuel stops flowing.... (ignore the wifely tries at explaining this
>please!) OK so what I'm looking for is a manual or a website that may
>have some answers - do you have any ideas that can help?"
>
>After receiving this question I asked for more detailed information
>and received this:
>
>"The engine is not a turbine and is not hooked to an aircraft. It is
>sitting in a tractor frame for pulling (you know, they show it once
>and a while on TV...) He pulls locally (a weighted sled to see how far
>down the track he can get.)
>OK other questions: It is a 1710 allison v-12 engine WWII p 38 engine.
>The carburetor is a CG Aircraft Carburetor Model 1 685 F and we know
>very little about it and we have even checked with Holley but they
>said they don't keep manuals dating that far back. Someone should?
>Wouldn't you think so?
>My husband keeps telling me to type that the carburetor was used on
>v-12 PT boats."
>
>Can you guys help her? Contact me for a direct contact. I don't want
>to blast it out without her permission.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Holger

[Holger Stephan]

Thanks to Corrie, John and Scott! Your answers are read by Sue and her
husband and they gave following response:

"Some of the info was helpful and there are a lot of great ideas. As usual
- there is an upcoming event in less then ten days and we are trying to
make it. Maybe the following info will help - I'm not sure, well I just
seem to be asking so much of this wonderful group... but here it goes...
To answer a few questions: The guy we bought the engine from was a very
well known boat racer.* He said the carburetor was from the packard v-12
2500 cubic inch pt boat motor. He gets the carburetor's from another
source and has always placed them on the engine with-out any problems
since the carburetor's arrive brand new. OK the following is directly from
my husband's mouth: "The problem I am having -I prime the engine, I fire
the engine, it starts, runs for about ten seconds and then backfires
through the carburetor and then shuts off. I have gone through the
procedure of letting the carburetor soak with gas in it as the rebuilt
manual for the engine stated. *We tried adjusting the fuel mixture, fuel
pressure, engine timing and got it to run for a longer period of time but
then without touching the trottle the rpm started winding the engine up to
and over 3000. I had to use the kill switch." When the "beast" ( my name)
finally starts - I'll snap a picture and send it through. Hopefully it
will be an allison flying down a dirt track - of all things!"

Sue's address is sldaku a t sunlink d o t net (she gave permission to post
it).

So, it's 10 days to get that allison go fly again!

- Holger

[Blueskies]

What are they using for fuel?

--
Dan D.



..
"Holger Stephan" > wrote in message ...
> Thanks to Corrie, John and Scott! Your answers are read by Sue and her
> husband and they gave following response:
>
> "Some of the info was helpful and there are a lot of great ideas. As usual
> - there is an upcoming event in less then ten days and we are trying to
> make it. Maybe the following info will help - I'm not sure, well I just
> seem to be asking so much of this wonderful group... but here it goes...
> To answer a few questions: The guy we bought the engine from was a very
> well known boat racer. He said the carburetor was from the packard v-12
> 2500 cubic inch pt boat motor. He gets the carburetor's from another
> source and has always placed them on the engine with-out any problems
> since the carburetor's arrive brand new. OK the following is directly from
> my husband's mouth: "The problem I am having -I prime the engine, I fire
> the engine, it starts, runs for about ten seconds and then backfires
> through the carburetor and then shuts off. I have gone through the
> procedure of letting the carburetor soak with gas in it as the rebuilt
> manual for the engine stated. We tried adjusting the fuel mixture, fuel
> pressure, engine timing and got it to run for a longer period of time but
> then without touching the trottle the rpm started winding the engine up to
> and over 3000. I had to use the kill switch." When the "beast" ( my name)
> finally starts - I'll snap a picture and send it through. Hopefully it
> will be an allison flying down a dirt track - of all things!"
>
> Sue's address is sldaku a t sunlink d o t net (she gave permission to post
> it).
>
> So, it's 10 days to get that allison go fly again!
>
> - Holger

[Jim]

This may be a surplus engine of the stored for a long long time type.
Doesn't say that or if the engine stop for lack of fuel or not. Its a rough
guess but maybe at least every spring in the valve system stored in the open
valve position is flat and the engine will require new spring for the valves
to function.

Just an idea mindya
Jim



"Holger Stephan" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks to Corrie, John and Scott! Your answers are read by Sue and her
> husband and they gave following response:
>
> "Some of the info was helpful and there are a lot of great ideas. As usual
> - there is an upcoming event in less then ten days and we are trying to
> make it. Maybe the following info will help - I'm not sure, well I just
> seem to be asking so much of this wonderful group... but here it goes...
> To answer a few questions: The guy we bought the engine from was a very
> well known boat racer. He said the carburetor was from the packard v-12
> 2500 cubic inch pt boat motor. He gets the carburetor's from another
> source and has always placed them on the engine with-out any problems
> since the carburetor's arrive brand new. OK the following is directly from
> my husband's mouth: "The problem I am having -I prime the engine, I fire
> the engine, it starts, runs for about ten seconds and then backfires
> through the carburetor and then shuts off. I have gone through the
> procedure of letting the carburetor soak with gas in it as the rebuilt
> manual for the engine stated. We tried adjusting the fuel mixture, fuel
> pressure, engine timing and got it to run for a longer period of time but
> then without touching the trottle the rpm started winding the engine up to
> and over 3000. I had to use the kill switch." When the "beast" ( my name)
> finally starts - I'll snap a picture and send it through. Hopefully it
> will be an allison flying down a dirt track - of all things!"
>
> Sue's address is sldaku a t sunlink d o t net (she gave permission to post
> it).
>
> So, it's 10 days to get that allison go fly again!
>
> - Holger

[Dr Bach]

I live next door to the US Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio, and for
$10.00/hr to cover my expensives and lost time, I do private Research
in the Archives, Collections, and displays at the Museum . Believe me
when I say that the Material is Extensive!

Let me know if you'd like me to spend a few hours Photocopying the
Manuals for this engine. I'd think it would be well worth it.

Dr. Bach

[Bill Higdon]

Dr Bach wrote:
> I live next door to the US Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio, and for
> $10.00/hr to cover my expensives and lost time, I do private Research
> in the Archives, Collections, and displays at the Museum . Believe me
> when I say that the Material is Extensive!
>
> Let me know if you'd like me to spend a few hours Photocopying the
> Manuals for this engine. I'd think it would be well worth it.
>
> Dr. Bach


Try Essco, they listed the Allison V-12 manulas in the last listing I saw.
http://www.esscoaircraft.com/
Bill Higdon

[Holger Stephan]

Thanks to all who answered!

And here another follow-up from Sue:

"With the help of everyone - we started narrowing down the problem. Of all
things - it seems to be a small part in the fuel pump that is the culprit
(new pump, bad from the start). But we have alot of great resources do to
all the ideas everyone had - I have a folder full of useful links for the
allison thanks to everyone. Sue"

- Holger