Lancair Propjet Down in Portland

[Al G[_2_]]

Don't know much more than that. It was a local, to us(KRBG), aircraft, 42EX.
Apparently 2 fatals.


Al G

[Al G[_2_]]

More...

6/15/2007, 1:15 p.m. PT
By SARAH SKIDMORE
The Associated Press

Two believed dead as small plane crashes in Portland back yard


PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) A small plane crashed in the wooded back yard of a
southwest Portland home
Friday morning, killing the people aboard authorities said.

Portland Fire Lt. Allen Oswalt said based on an initial inspection of the
site, two people are
assumed dead. The victims' identities were not released.

No one in the hilly wooded neighborhood near the border between Portland and
Lake Oswego was injured.

The cause of the crash was not known. But officials said the impact left a
crater in the yard about
3 feet deep and 15 feet wide. Debris was scattered around the area and into
the street.

The Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation Safety
Board are handling
the investigation.

The FAA said the Lancair IV plane took off from the Hillsboro Airport at
8:54 a.m. and was
headed toward Twin Falls, Idaho, and crashed around 9 a.m.

The Redmond-based manufacturer, Lancair, said the four-seat plane is worth
an estimated $700,000
and was up for sale. FAA spokesman Mike Fergus said the registered owner is
William C. Shepard
of Idleyld Park, in Douglas County, Ore., but it is not known if he was
aboard.

Tim Ong, general manager at Lancair, said the plane was one of the world's
fastest single-engine aircraft.

Homeowner Tom Schwartz was at his roofing company when the plane went down
in his back yard.
He said his wife, Erin, was at home and described the sound as "deafening."
Initially, she thought a car had hit the house and looked first in the front
yard, where she saw nothing,
he said. When she checked the back, she saw a part of the plane and smelled
smoke and fuel.

Several neighbors in the area, which is located near Jackson Middle School
and Lewis & Clark College,
described the noise as like a loud motorcycle's.

Angie Kubin, 24, said it was "like nothing I've ever heard before in my
life."
Officials closed off the area and said access is expected to be limited for
at least a day.
The FAA said it was not immediately known where the experimental Lancair
plane was headed.


Al G

[AlphaPropellerhead]

Update on the local news:

"The general manager of Lancair tells KOIN that the plane was built with a
kit from Redmond-based company. He says he personally knows the owner of the
plane that crashed.
"We're not going to speculate right now, but that airplane was perfectly
built. That was basically what I would consider a show aircraft.
Absolutely phenomenally built."

[t pagotie]

I flew through that area about the same time. The ceiling was only
about 1500msl and there were rain squalls with 1/4 mile visibility that
were several miles wide. I was not enjoying the ride, and actually
landed in a private strip to wait out the line of squalls to go by.
tom

Al G wrote:
> Don't know much more than that. It was a local, to us(KRBG), aircraft, 42EX.
> Apparently 2 fatals
>

[Morgans[_2_]]

"t pagotie" < wrote

> I flew through that area about the same time. The ceiling was only about
> 1500msl and there were rain squalls with 1/4 mile visibility that were
> several miles wide. I was not enjoying the ride, and actually landed in a
> private strip to wait out the line of squalls to go by. tom

Anyone know if the pilot was instrument rated?
--
Jim in NC

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-06-15 14:21:11 -0700, "Al G" > said:

> Don't know much more than that. It was a local, to us(KRBG), aircraft, 42EX.
> Apparently 2 fatals.
>
>
> Al G

Darned shame. Update on Northwest Cable News (NWCN) says that
apparently three people were killed. The sheriff originally thought
two. The aircraft left a crater three feet deep and fifteen feet
across, so it is a pretty well compacted crash site.

This is just a horrible, horrible thing. So sad.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

.. The aircraft left a crater three feet deep and fifteen feet
>across, so it is a pretty well compacted crash site.

Reportedly newly instrument rated. Loss of spatial orientation,
stall/spin?

Ron Lee

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-06-16 19:26:10 -0700, (Ron Lee) said:

> . The aircraft left a crater three feet deep and fifteen feet
>> across, so it is a pretty well compacted crash site.
>
> Reportedly newly instrument rated. Loss of spatial orientation,
> stall/spin?
>
> Ron Lee

Who knows. I would expect someone with a new instrument rating to be
pretty sharp.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[AlphaPropellerhead]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:200706171722128930-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> On 2007-06-16 19:26:10 -0700, (Ron Lee) said:
>
>> . The aircraft left a crater three feet deep and fifteen feet
>>> across, so it is a pretty well compacted crash site.
>>
>> Reportedly newly instrument rated. Loss of spatial orientation,
>> stall/spin?
>
> Who knows. I would expect someone with a new instrument rating to be
> pretty sharp.

The victims were the pilot, his wife and their 12-year-old grandson. Still
no explanation. There's not much left but the crater and some scattered
debris.

-c

[AlphaPropellerhead]

"Ron Lee" > wrote in message
...
>. The aircraft left a crater three feet deep and fifteen feet
>>across, so it is a pretty well compacted crash site.
>
> Reportedly newly instrument rated. Loss of spatial orientation,
> stall/spin?

One witness said he thought somebody was racing up the street and then
realized that nobody could be going that fast, and another said they heard
the engine sputtering. (Which means it might have been at idle.)

-c

[Al G[_2_]]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "t pagotie" < wrote
>
>> I flew through that area about the same time. The ceiling was only about
>> 1500msl and there were rain squalls with 1/4 mile visibility that were
>> several miles wide. I was not enjoying the ride, and actually landed in
>> a private strip to wait out the line of squalls to go by. tom
>
> Anyone know if the pilot was instrument rated?
> --
> Jim in NC
>

Whew,

I just got done talking with one of his flight instructors. He was
apparently VERY good on the gauges, and VERY well checked out in his
aircraft. The aircraft was pretty high performance, as you would expect of
a 700hp 4 place, and he has been flying it for a little over 2 years.

The instructor that checked him out in the airplane used to command a U2
squadron for a living. The Instrument instructor I talked with said that he
spent the extra time with the factory, and with our U2 friend, making sure
he was on top of his game. He spared no expense for safety.

He was current, qualified, and skilled. He had his family on board, so let's
add motivated.
He had a beautiful aircraft in top shape, with the performance to get out of
trouble, what more could you want?

He will be missed, and my condolences go out to his friends and remaining
family.

I will be very interested in the outcome of the investigation.


Al G

[Montblack]

("Al G" wrote)
> He was current, qualified, and skilled. He had his family on board, so
> let's add motivated.
>
> He had a beautiful aircraft in top shape, with the performance to get out
> of trouble, what more could you want?
>
> He will be missed, and my condolences go out to his friends and remaining
> family.
>
> I will be very interested in the outcome of the investigation.


In an odd way I hope it was:

A bird strike
An aneurysm, etc
Windsheer
An in-flight breakup
An EgyptAir scenario (God forbid)

Anything ....other than something spatial, or otherwise (suddenly)
overwhelming to the well trained pilot.

Why?

The others are more tangible, the latter less so.


Paul-Mont

[Bob Moore]

AlphaPropellerhead wrote
> One witness said he thought somebody was racing up the street and then
> realized that nobody could be going that fast, and another said they
> heard the engine sputtering. (Which means it might have been at
> idle.)

A turboprop sputtering? :-)

Bob Moore

[Montblack]

("Bob Moore" wrote)
> A turboprop sputtering? :-)


"The engine stalled..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressor_stall
Oh wait. They do.


Paul-Mont

[Peter Dohm]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Bob Moore" wrote)
> > A turboprop sputtering? :-)
>
>
> "The engine stalled..."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressor_stall
> Oh wait. They do.
>
>
> Paul-Mont
>
>
Well, axial compressors do stall; but turbines that small usually have
centrifugal compressors--and I have no idea whether they stall in a similar
manner or whether they do not.

OTOH, eye witnesses are capable of filling in the sounds that they "know"
are there. My personal favorite, in a goulish sort of way, remains the
Southern Airways Flight 242 crash in 1977; in which a witness heard the roar
of the jet engines as the DC-9 glided past--even though both engines had
been inoperative for some time due to FOD.

[Gatt]

"AlphaPropellerhead" > wrote in message
...

> The victims were the pilot, his wife and their 12-year-old grandson.
> Still no explanation. There's not much left but the crater and some
> scattered debris.

PORTLAND - Authorities have identified the three people killed in a plane
crash Friday in southwest Portland as a Douglas County couple and their
12-year-old grandson.

The plane crashed Friday morning in a residential neighborhood near Tryon
Creek State Park shortly after takeoff from Hillsboro.

The victims were identified as 64-year-old William Shepard, his 63-year-old
wife Jeaninne of Idleyld Park and their grandson Benjamin Shepard of Aloha.
William Shepard was the registered owner of the experimental plane.

The plane was destined for Twin Falls, Idaho. There has been no
determination yet as to the cause of the crash.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
...
> My personal favorite, in a goulish sort of way, remains the
> Southern Airways Flight 242 crash in 1977; in which a witness heard the roar
> of the jet engines as the DC-9 glided past--even though both engines had
> been inoperative for some time due to FOD.

I have never had an engineless DC-9 glide past me, but I have had lots of
engineless sailplanes zoom past me and guess what? They sound like jets, only
not so loud. I imagine that flamed-out DC-9 going by at 100+ knots also sounded
like a jet, only not so quiet.

Vaughn

[Peter Dohm]

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My personal favorite, in a goulish sort of way, remains the
> > Southern Airways Flight 242 crash in 1977; in which a witness heard the
roar
> > of the jet engines as the DC-9 glided past--even though both engines had
> > been inoperative for some time due to FOD.
>
> I have never had an engineless DC-9 glide past me, but I have had
lots of
> engineless sailplanes zoom past me and guess what? They sound like jets,
only
> not so loud. I imagine that flamed-out DC-9 going by at 100+ knots also
sounded
> like a jet, only not so quiet.
>
> Vaughn
>
>
As does a Cessna 150 with 40 degrees of flaps, at a level between the other
two.

However, my point is that what the observer believed he heard was not what
he really heard--from which I am making the inference that we have little
reason to presume whether the Lancair was suffering a series of compressor
stalls.

Peter
Just pointing out one source of the problems with news stories.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
...
> However, my point is that what the observer believed he heard was not what
> he really heard--from which I am making the inference that we have little
> reason to presume whether the Lancair was suffering a series of compressor
> stalls.

Agreed.

Vaughn

[[email protected]]

On Jun 18, 8:42 pm, "Peter Dohm" > wrote:
> "Vaughn Simon" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > My personal favorite, in a goulish sort of way, remains the
> > > Southern Airways Flight 242 crash in 1977; in which a witness heard the
> roar
> > > of the jet engines as the DC-9 glided past--even though both engines had
> > > been inoperative for some time due to FOD.
>
> > I have never had an engineless DC-9 glide past me, but I have had
> lots of
> > engineless sailplanes zoom past me and guess what? They sound like jets,
> only
> > not so loud. I imagine that flamed-out DC-9 going by at 100+ knots also
> sounded
> > like a jet, only not so quiet.
>
> > Vaughn
>
> As does a Cessna 150 with 40 degrees of flaps, at a level between the other
> two.
>
> However, my point is that what the observer believed he heard was not what
> he really heard--from which I am making the inference that we have little
> reason to presume whether the Lancair was suffering a series of compressor
> stalls.
>
> Peter
> Just pointing out one source of the problems with news stories.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Regardless, a compressor stall would not cause the airplane
to drill a crater into the ground. This accident sounds to me like a
total loss of control, either through spatial disorientation leading
to a spiral that may or may not have resulted in structural failure,
or a structural failure arising out of extreme turbulence encountered
in the thunderstorm.

Dan

[[email protected]]

On Jun 19, 8:14 am, wrote:
> On Jun 18, 8:42 pm, "Peter Dohm" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Vaughn Simon" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > "Peter Dohm" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > My personal favorite, in a goulish sort of way, remains the
> > > > Southern Airways Flight 242 crash in 1977; in which a witness heard the
> > roar
> > > > of the jet engines as the DC-9 glided past--even though both engines had
> > > > been inoperative for some time due to FOD.
>
> > > I have never had an engineless DC-9 glide past me, but I have had
> > lots of
> > > engineless sailplanes zoom past me and guess what? They sound like jets,
> > only
> > > not so loud. I imagine that flamed-out DC-9 going by at 100+ knots also
> > sounded
> > > like a jet, only not so quiet.
>
> > > Vaughn
>
> > As does a Cessna 150 with 40 degrees of flaps, at a level between the other
> > two.
>
> > However, my point is that what the observer believed he heard was not what
> > he really heard--from which I am making the inference that we have little
> > reason to presume whether the Lancair was suffering a series of compressor
> > stalls.
>
> > Peter
> > Just pointing out one source of the problems with news stories.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Regardless, a compressor stall would not cause the airplane
> to drill a crater into the ground. This accident sounds to me like a
> total loss of control, either through spatial disorientation leading
> to a spiral that may or may not have resulted in structural failure,
> or a structural failure arising out of extreme turbulence encountered
> in the thunderstorm.
>
> Dan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I should correct myself: a previous poster mentioned rain
squalls, not thunderstorms. When I hear the term "squall" I think of a
squall line, something light airplanes should stay well away from.
It's caused by a fast-moving cold front and can be deadly. I don't
know if this is what was happening there.

Dan

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Peter Dohm wrote:
>
> As does a Cessna 150 with 40 degrees of flaps, at a level between the other
> two.

Anybody ever hear a Piper Arrow go by on short final with the engine
idling? It sounds like a jet!

[Bush]

Any Piper with a "Warrier" wing whistles just as you say.

Have a great one!

Bush

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:31:28 -0400, B A R R Y >
wrote:

>Peter Dohm wrote:
>>
>> As does a Cessna 150 with 40 degrees of flaps, at a level between the other
>> two.
>
>Anybody ever hear a Piper Arrow go by on short final with the engine
>idling? It sounds like a jet!

[Bush]

Looking at the recaps on AOPA sounds right on, in fact fuel starvation
is close to the #1 reason for downed aircraft due to apathy,
procrastination, and experience. Yes experience. There are way too
many accidents where the PIC was a seasoned ATP and got himself into
trouble doing the wrong thing with the right aircraft, or a
combination of the two.

Have a great one!



On 18 Jun 2007 16:53:37 GMT, Bob Moore >
wrote:

>AlphaPropellerhead wrote
>> One witness said he thought somebody was racing up the street and then
>> realized that nobody could be going that fast, and another said they
>> heard the engine sputtering. (Which means it might have been at
>> idle.)
>
>A turboprop sputtering? :-)
>
>Bob Moore

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:22:12 -0700, C J Campbell
> wrote:

>On 2007-06-16 19:26:10 -0700, (Ron Lee) said:
>
>> . The aircraft left a crater three feet deep and fifteen feet
>>> across, so it is a pretty well compacted crash site.
>>
>> Reportedly newly instrument rated. Loss of spatial orientation,
>> stall/spin?
>>
>> Ron Lee
>
>Who knows. I would expect someone with a new instrument rating to be
>pretty sharp.

I was by far at my most proficient at that point. I had an instructor
who had me flying right down to minimums in real IMC for a good
portion of my training.