Soaring training stories

[Hilton]

Hi,

I'm looking for write-ups about transitioning from powered to gliders to get
a Commercial Add-On. Also looking for any write-ups on getting a CFI-G. I
have a bunch of soaring books including the Flight Manual, Transition to
Gliders (Knauff), but it is always good to hear it from the horse's mouth
(so to speak).

I have my CFI-A/I/M.

Thanks,

Hilton

[Vaughn Simon]

"Hilton" > wrote in message
et...
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for write-ups about transitioning from powered to gliders to get a
> Commercial Add-On. Also looking for any write-ups on getting a CFI-G. I have
> a bunch of soaring books including the Flight Manual, Transition to Gliders
> (Knauff), but it is always good to hear it from the horse's mouth (so to
> speak).

Read the books and then go fly. Nobody can tell you how the experience is
going to be for you until you go try it for yourself. Probably the hardest part
for most to learn initially is the takeoff & tow. That can be humbling at
first, but you will catch on after a few flights. In my experience, instrument
pilots have a slight advantage over others. My theory is that they have learned
the knack of making quick but measured corrections, where others tend to wait a
bit too long and then overcorrect.

The hardest part for some is to put yourself back in the "student mode".
Also remember that you have a bit of unlearning to do. If possible, tell your
instructor as little as possible about your background so that he/she makes no
assumptions and truly starts from the beginning. I recently transitioned in the
other direction (CFI-G to ASEL Private) and ran into the same issues.

Vaughn

[Bill Daniels]

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Hilton" > wrote in message
> et...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm looking for write-ups about transitioning from powered to gliders to
>> get a Commercial Add-On. Also looking for any write-ups on getting a
>> CFI-G. I have a bunch of soaring books including the Flight Manual,
>> Transition to Gliders (Knauff), but it is always good to hear it from the
>> horse's mouth (so to speak).
>
> Read the books and then go fly. Nobody can tell you how the
> experience is going to be for you until you go try it for yourself.
> Probably the hardest part for most to learn initially is the takeoff &
> tow. That can be humbling at first, but you will catch on after a few
> flights. In my experience, instrument pilots have a slight advantage over
> others. My theory is that they have learned the knack of making quick but
> measured corrections, where others tend to wait a bit too long and then
> overcorrect.
>
> The hardest part for some is to put yourself back in the "student
> mode". Also remember that you have a bit of unlearning to do. If
> possible, tell your instructor as little as possible about your background
> so that he/she makes no assumptions and truly starts from the beginning.
> I recently transitioned in the other direction (CFI-G to ASEL Private) and
> ran into the same issues.
>
> Vaughn
>

What Vaughn says.

I would add that gliders have only one main wheel - they tip over when
stopped. Therefore, they need to be flown from the instant they start
moving until after they stop. Do't let yourself slip into thinking there
are three wheels down there. Dragging a wing tip is bad form and a dead
givaway you're still thinking like an airplane driver.

Then there is the fact that even the worst training gliders will glide three
times further than any single engine airplane. Better trainers will glide
five times further - the best gliders will glide further than you can see.
So don't get uptight about the "no engine" thing. In fact, avoid the
thought that a glider is "an airplane without an engine". A glider is a
whole new experience with it's own set of rules - you need to learn them
from the beginning.

Try to find an instructor with some advanced soaring and/or cross country
experience - (Surprise! Many glider instructors have NO real soaring
experience.) Ask if your instructor has any FAI badges.

Read the books, listen to your instructor and, if you have the chance, hang
out with some glider pilots. You can learn a lot from all of them.

Oh yes, have huge fun while you're at it.

Bill Daniels

[Hilton]

Vaughn, Bill,

Thanks for you comments.

> Then there is the fact that even the worst training gliders will glide
> three times further than any single engine airplane. Better trainers will
> glide five times further - the best gliders will glide further than you
> can see.

That's my biggest concern; i.e. that I'll always find myself way too high on
final.

Sounds like a great challenge. I'll be lurking in this NG and trying to
learn as much before I start the training. Speaking of which, for
Hollister, CA pilots: What are the conditions like for *training* in October
and November? I live in San Jose and am familiar with the area's weather,
but just wondering if any months in the latter part of the year would be
better/worse.

Also, are there any good/great weather images on gevernment web sites aimed
at glider pilots? We've just added animated RADAR and a lot of other
weather images to WingX and would like to provide useful weather images to
glider pilots - especially given that I'm about to become one. :)
http://www.hiltonsoftware.com

Thanks again,

Hilton

[Bill Daniels]

"Hilton" > wrote in message
. net...
> Vaughn, Bill,
>
> Thanks for you comments.
>
snip

> That's my biggest concern; i.e. that I'll always find myself way too high
> on final.

Your instructor will introduce you to the concept of spoilers/dive brakes.
(Think inverse throttle) Common trainers with full spoilers applied will
glide at about the same angle as a single engine airplane at idle power.
Some older glider have "terminal velosity limiting dive brakes" which allow
a vertical dive at safe airspeeds. Yes, it's possible to be too high on
final but that's REALLY high.
>
snip
>
> Also, are there any good/great weather images on gevernment web sites
> aimed at glider pilots? We've just added animated RADAR and a lot of
> other weather images to WingX and would like to provide useful weather
> images to glider pilots - especially given that I'm about to become one.
> :) http://www.hiltonsoftware.com

Interesting software. Take a look at Dr. Jack's BLIPMAPS.
(http://www.drjack.info/BLIP/univiewer.html)

I think there will be some people interested in getting BLIPMAPS on a PDA.

Bill Daniels

[Vaughn Simon]

"Hilton" > wrote in message
. net...
>
> That's my biggest concern; i.e. that I'll always find myself way too high on
> final.
>
Don't be. Most gliders have excellent glide path control. Some even allow
very steep approaches to give you the option of 1) keeping extra energy until
the last moment "just in case" and 2) getting you into small fields without
damage.

Be more afraid of forgetting and turning base too far downwind.

Vaughn

[fred]

On Jun 17, 6:37 am, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
> "Hilton" > wrote in message
>
> . net...
>
> > That's my biggest concern; i.e. that I'll always find myself way too high on
> > final.
>
> Don't be. Most gliders have excellent glide path control. Some even allow
> very steep approaches to give you the option of 1) keeping extra energy until
> the last moment "just in case" and 2) getting you into small fields without
> damage.
>
> Be more afraid of forgetting and turning base too far downwind.
>
> Vaughn

Hoo-ray for you! You are starting for the best part of flying to be
done. There is a big demand for glider instructors. On tow, fly
formation with the tow plane. On landing, keep your nose down. Don't
try to control speed with airbrakes... They are DRAG CONTROL devices
used to limit how far down the runway you will travel. When your wheel
is close to the ground, don't make the glider land with a forward
movement of the stick. Gravity always works and you will surely land.
Fred

[Bruce]

fred wrote:
> On Jun 17, 6:37 am, "Vaughn Simon" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Hilton" > wrote in message
>>
. net...
>>
>>
>>>That's my biggest concern; i.e. that I'll always find myself way too high on
>>>final.
>>
>> Don't be. Most gliders have excellent glide path control. Some even allow
>>very steep approaches to give you the option of 1) keeping extra energy until
>>the last moment "just in case" and 2) getting you into small fields without
>>damage.
>>
>> Be more afraid of forgetting and turning base too far downwind.
>>
>>Vaughn
>
>
> Hoo-ray for you! You are starting for the best part of flying to be
> done. There is a big demand for glider instructors. On tow, fly
> formation with the tow plane. On landing, keep your nose down. Don't
> try to control speed with airbrakes... They are DRAG CONTROL devices
> used to limit how far down the runway you will travel. When your wheel
> is close to the ground, don't make the glider land with a forward
> movement of the stick. Gravity always works and you will surely land.
> Fred
>
Unlike tricycle undercarriages you can't "drive it on" - gliders are taildraggers.

One other party trick transitioning power pilots have for unsuspecting
instructors is the perfectly flown approach terminating in a decisive flare four
feet up. Seems more instinctive for those who have flown the heavier/faster
Cessnas.

Speed disappears, glider mushes tail first into a too slow arrival - and an
almost visible question mark forms above P1.

So a comment - these glider things don't have the stored kinetic energy, or
residual thrust from the propeller. Get the attitude right and flare gently,
much more gently that you would with say a C210.

As Fred said, gravity always wins. The corollary is that you should not let it
be a decisive win...

Bruce

[jb92563]

Just as an FYI, in our glider club the power transitioned glider
pilots seem to be having the most incidents/accidents due
to differences in the types of aircraft and making best use of
performance.

2 incidents where from landing to long and hitting things, fences,
other gliders etc

Seems like they are not taking into account that some gliders do not
have very effective brakes or not being used to the great glide and
using adequate spoiler or flaps.

The other thing seems to be that they are trying to use their power
techniques in gliders.....they are very different flying machines.

For example a standard power 2minute turn with maybe 30 degrees bank
is inappropriate for a glider with a tow rope break at 200' agl.

Power transitions seem to be at least initially timid to bank the
glider up to 60 degrees plus to get a turn done quickly and safely at
lower altitudes.

Just things to keep in mind if you are flying both types.

Ray