Flight plans lost?

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

Have had a great flying month, with nearly 40 hours flying the Baron from
Wisconsin to Portland, OR, and then on separate trips east to New York, and
then Vermont.

The plane has run great- not needing a quart of oil in either engine for
over 40 hours! Encountered ice, thunderstorms, and mountain flying- what a
great experience.

However, my flight plans seem to be getting lost in the system. I've filed
them from Voyager (a great program, but slow), as well as Jeppesen
Flightstar.

The software says that the flightplan has been accepted, but when calling
up, there's nothing to be found. It happens around 50% of the time (ever try
to air file with New York Center?)

Anyone else seen similar behavior? Is it a problem with Voyager, or is the
FAA system screwed up worse than usual?

[Ron Natalie]

Viperdoc wrote:

>
> Anyone else seen similar behavior? Is it a problem with Voyager, or is the
> FAA system screwed up worse than usual?
>

Can't vouch for Voyager, but I rarely lose a plan filed with the CSC
DUAT. The major issue in losing any plan is:

Wrong P-Time (screw up the local to GMT conversion or whatever)
Point of departure not one that routes to the controller you're
talking to.

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

I pretty sure Voyager just translates and sends through the normal DUAT
services (either). The program supposedly translates the times to GMT, since
the printout looks like a normal flight plan.

Thinking about it, it seems like the Voyager plans are hit or miss, while
I've never had a problem with the Jepp program.


"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Viperdoc wrote:
>
>>
>> Anyone else seen similar behavior? Is it a problem with Voyager, or is
>> the FAA system screwed up worse than usual?
>
> Can't vouch for Voyager, but I rarely lose a plan filed with the CSC
> DUAT. The major issue in losing any plan is:
>
> Wrong P-Time (screw up the local to GMT conversion or whatever)
> Point of departure not one that routes to the controller you're
> talking to.
>

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-06-21 06:16:03 -0700, "Viperdoc" > said:

> I pretty sure Voyager just translates and sends through the normal DUAT
> services (either). The program supposedly translates the times to GMT, since
> the printout looks like a normal flight plan.
>
> Thinking about it, it seems like the Voyager plans are hit or miss, while
> I've never had a problem with the Jepp program.

Actually, I have had problems with FliteStar in the past, but it was
several years ago. I asked Oakland tower about it and they mumbled
something about how if you file through DUATS it goes through some kind
of central processing system and it is very hard to modify (easier to
just file a whole new flight plan) and sometimes they don't get it at
all. Whereas, if you file locally they have access to the whole thing.
I cannot say that I understood the explanation.

Now that things are getting a little more settled and I have time to
shop for a plane (I am thinking a new Skyhawk) I am going to have to
consider my flight planning options. FliteStar won't run on OS X or
Vista, so I would have to use an old computer. Jeppesen seems to have a
hard time keeping up with the technology.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Peter R.]

On 6/21/2007 9:15:59 AM, "Viperdoc" wrote:

> I've never had a problem with the Jepp program.

As an active IFR pilot who uses Jepp's Flightstar to file just about all of
my IFR plans over the last four years, I have never had an issue of a lost
flight plan filed via Jepp and ultimately CSC/DTC Duats that wasn't my fault
(departure time more than 1/2 hour earlier than the time I call clearance).

--
Peter

[Peter R.]

On 6/21/2007 10:00:54 AM, "Peter R." wrote:

> (departure time more than 1/2 hour earlier than the time I call
> clearance).

Typo correction: "departure time more than 1/2 hour *LATER* than then
time..."

--
Peter

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> On 6/21/2007 10:00:54 AM, "Peter R." wrote:
>
>> (departure time more than 1/2 hour earlier than the time I call
>> clearance).
>
> Typo correction: "departure time more than 1/2 hour *LATER* than then
> time..."
{Third time's the charm}

....than THE time...

[[email protected]]

On Jun 21, 7:31 am, C J Campbell >
wrote:
> On 2007-06-21 06:16:03 -0700, "Viperdoc" > said:
>
> > I pretty sure Voyager just translates and sends through the normal DUAT
> > services (either). The program supposedly translates the times to GMT, since
> > the printout looks like a normal flight plan.
>
> > Thinking about it, it seems like the Voyager plans are hit or miss, while
> > I've never had a problem with the Jepp program.
>
> Actually, I have had problems with FliteStar in the past, but it was
> several years ago. I asked Oakland tower about it and they mumbled
> something about how if you file through DUATS it goes through some kind
> of central processing system and it is very hard to modify (easier to
> just file a whole new flight plan) and sometimes they don't get it at
> all. Whereas, if you file locally they have access to the whole thing.
> I cannot say that I understood the explanation.
>
> Now that things are getting a little more settled and I have time to
> shop for a plane (I am thinking a new Skyhawk) I am going to have to
> consider my flight planning options. FliteStar won't run on OS X or
> Vista, so I would have to use an old computer. Jeppesen seems to have a
> hard time keeping up with the technology.
>
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor

Hi CJ,

AirPlan runs under Vista... have you tried it?

Dean

[Hilton]

Ron,

I never do the time conversion, I use "+0300" (for example) which means
three hours from now.

Hope this helps,

Hilton


"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Viperdoc wrote:
>
>>
>> Anyone else seen similar behavior? Is it a problem with Voyager, or is
>> the FAA system screwed up worse than usual?
>
> Can't vouch for Voyager, but I rarely lose a plan filed with the CSC
> DUAT. The major issue in losing any plan is:
>
> Wrong P-Time (screw up the local to GMT conversion or whatever)
> Point of departure not one that routes to the controller you're
> talking to.
>

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-06-21 08:18:21 -0700, said:

> On Jun 21, 7:31 am, C J Campbell >
> wrote:
>> On 2007-06-21 06:16:03 -0700, "Viperdoc" > said:
>>
>>> I pretty sure Voyager just translates and sends through the normal DUAT
>>> services (either). The program supposedly translates the times to GMT, since
>>> the printout looks like a normal flight plan.
>>
>>> Thinking about it, it seems like the Voyager plans are hit or miss, while
>>> I've never had a problem with the Jepp program.
>>
>> Actually, I have had problems with FliteStar in the past, but it was
>> several years ago. I asked Oakland tower about it and they mumbled
>> something about how if you file through DUATS it goes through some kind
>> of central processing system and it is very hard to modify (easier to
>> just file a whole new flight plan) and sometimes they don't get it at
>> all. Whereas, if you file locally they have access to the whole thing.
>> I cannot say that I understood the explanation.
>>
>> Now that things are getting a little more settled and I have time to
>> shop for a plane (I am thinking a new Skyhawk) I am going to have to
>> consider my flight planning options. FliteStar won't run on OS X or
>> Vista, so I would have to use an old computer. Jeppesen seems to have a
>> hard time keeping up with the technology.
>>
>> --
>> Waddling Eagle
>> World Famous Flight Instructor
>
> Hi CJ,
>
> AirPlan runs under Vista... have you tried it?
>
> Dean

Not yet.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote

> AirPlan runs under Vista... have you tried it?

Surprising.

My brother tells me that Vista doesn't run well......

with Vista!

Interesting that I have heard that Dell has quit offering Vista as the
standard OS.

My brother tells me (a computer using electrical engineer) that his
screaming fast new computer is so slow with Vista, that he often goes and
takes a bathroom break while it opens Adobe.

I'm not a micro$oft basher, but they screwed up big, this time.
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

On Jun 23, 8:17 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
> > wrote
>
> > AirPlan runs under Vista... have you tried it?
>
> Surprising.
>
> My brother tells me that Vista doesn't run well......
>
> with Vista!
>
> Interesting that I have heard that Dell has quit offering Vista as the
> standard OS.
>
> My brother tells me (a computer using electrical engineer) that his
> screaming fast new computer is so slow with Vista, that he often goes and
> takes a bathroom break while it opens Adobe.
>
> I'm not a micro$oft basher, but they screwed up big, this time.
> --
> Jim in NC

Jim,

Yes, I plan on avoiding Vista until I have heard otherwise... so far I
hear the same. At least I know that users of my software can run
under Vista. It doesn't like to allow the registration function to
work, but I have a work-around for that... I send a license file to
Vista users.

Dean

[[email protected]]

On Jun 21, 10:45 pm, C J Campbell >
wrote:
> On 2007-06-21 08:18:21 -0700, said:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 21, 7:31 am, C J Campbell >
> > wrote:
> >> On 2007-06-21 06:16:03 -0700, "Viperdoc" > said:
>
> >>> I pretty sure Voyager just translates and sends through the normal DUAT
> >>> services (either). The program supposedly translates the times to GMT, since
> >>> the printout looks like a normal flight plan.
>
> >>> Thinking about it, it seems like the Voyager plans are hit or miss, while
> >>> I've never had a problem with the Jepp program.
>
> >> Actually, I have had problems with FliteStar in the past, but it was
> >> several years ago. I asked Oakland tower about it and they mumbled
> >> something about how if you file through DUATS it goes through some kind
> >> of central processing system and it is very hard to modify (easier to
> >> just file a whole new flight plan) and sometimes they don't get it at
> >> all. Whereas, if you file locally they have access to the whole thing.
> >> I cannot say that I understood the explanation.
>
> >> Now that things are getting a little more settled and I have time to
> >> shop for a plane (I am thinking a new Skyhawk) I am going to have to
> >> consider my flight planning options. FliteStar won't run on OS X or
> >> Vista, so I would have to use an old computer. Jeppesen seems to have a
> >> hard time keeping up with the technology.
>
> >> --
> >> Waddling Eagle
> >> World Famous Flight Instructor
>
> > Hi CJ,
>
> > AirPlan runs under Vista... have you tried it?
>
> > Dean
>
> Not yet.
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

CJ,

You can't beat the price, its only $10 now, and you can try if for 60
days first.

Dean

[Dan Luke]

"Morgans" wrote:

>
> My brother tells me (a computer using electrical engineer) that his
> screaming fast new computer is so slow with Vista, that he often goes and
> takes a bathroom break while it opens Adobe.
>
> I'm not a micro$oft basher, but they screwed up big, this time.

Indeed.

We have no plans in our business for "upgrading" to Vista; not for customers'
machines, technicians' laptops or our own office workstations. We'll buy XP
Pro refurbs if we have to for as long as we can.

This will be a real test of Microsoft's power. It might be just the boost
Linux needs to go mainstream in a big way.

And you know Apple loves it.


--
Dan

“I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
telephone; my wish has come true, because I can no longer figure out how
to use my telephone.”
- Bjarne Stroustrup

[Jose]

> This will be a real test of Microsoft's power.

Microsoft can just wait, and machines will get more powerful, and people
will get used to the intrusive security.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jon]

On Jun 24, 9:26 am, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> "Morgans" wrote:
>
> > My brother tells me (a computer using electrical engineer) that his
> > screaming fast new computer is so slow with Vista, that he often goes and
> > takes a bathroom break while it opens Adobe.
>
> > I'm not a micro$oft basher, but they screwed up big, this time.
>
> Indeed.
>
> We have no plans in our business for "upgrading" to Vista; not for customers'
> machines, technicians' laptops or our own office workstations. We'll buy XP
> Pro refurbs if we have to for as long as we can.
>
> This will be a real test of Microsoft's power. It might be just the boost
> Linux needs to go mainstream in a big way.
>
> And you know Apple loves it.
>
> --
> Dan
>
> "I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
> telephone; my wish has come true, because I can no longer figure out how
> to use my telephone."
> - Bjarne Stroustrup

Interesting read at <http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/
vista_cost.html>

Regards,
Jon

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Jon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jun 24, 9:26 am, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
>> "I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
>> telephone; my wish has come true, because I can no longer figure out how
>> to use my telephone."
>> - Bjarne Stroustrup
>
> Interesting read at
> <http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html>
>

I hear that corporations are staying away from Vista in droves. Even the
geeks are saying away.

When XP came out, the corporate world, big and small, flocked to it. Now
they're holding their noses for Vista and very many have not upgraded their
systems from Office 2003 or even Office 2000.

It took Microsoft how long to get the major bugs out of XP? Two years? Most
of us will be dead and buried before they get Vista stabilized.

Lose the corporate AND the vast majority of the consumer ("power user")
market, and you're in trouble. Lose the geeks and you're in SERIOUS trouble.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Dan Luke"> wrote

> This will be a real test of Microsoft's power. It might be just the boost
> Linux needs to go mainstream in a big way.
>
> And you know Apple loves it.

<Chuckle> Yep!

One thing my sister in law says, is "they tried to make Vista look like the
Apple OS's. If I had wanted that, I would have gotten a Mac!"
--
Jim in NC

[Bob Noel]

In article >, "Morgans" >
wrote:

> "Dan Luke"> wrote
>
> > This will be a real test of Microsoft's power. It might be just the boost
> > Linux needs to go mainstream in a big way.
> >
> > And you know Apple loves it.
>
> <Chuckle> Yep!
>
> One thing my sister in law says, is "they tried to make Vista look like the
> Apple OS's. If I had wanted that, I would have gotten a Mac!"

insert old joke about potatoe and second coming...

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Jon]

On Jun 24, 2:28 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
> "Dan Luke"> wrote
>
> > This will be a real test of Microsoft's power. It might be just the boost
> > Linux needs to go mainstream in a big way.
>
> > And you know Apple loves it.
>
> <Chuckle> Yep!
>
> One thing my sister in law says, is "they tried to make Vista look like the
> Apple OS's. If I had wanted that, I would have gotten a Mac!"
> --
> Jim in NC

" The software said it requires Windows 95 or better, so I installed
Linux "

;)

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Jon" > wrote in message
ps.com...

>
> " The software said it requires Windows 95 or better, so I installed
> Linux "
>
> ;)

When you start from ZERO...

:~)

[Ron Natalie]

Morgans wrote:
> "Dan Luke"> wrote
>
>> This will be a real test of Microsoft's power. It might be just the boost
>> Linux needs to go mainstream in a big way.
>>
>> And you know Apple loves it.
>
> <Chuckle> Yep!
>
> One thing my sister in law says, is "they tried to make Vista look like the
> Apple OS's. If I had wanted that, I would have gotten a Mac!"

If it worked like an Apple, that would be cool.
Superficially steeling the Apple styling isn't worth much.

Oddly, we've had to do darn little as a software manufacturer
to go form Windows 95 to NT to 2000 to XP (other than picking
up NEW features). Vista broke that. I had to task two guys
for a few weeks fixing things up. It's not just us that's
running into the problem.

[Jon]

On Jun 25, 7:06 am, Ron Natalie > wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
> > "Dan Luke"> wrote
>
> >> This will be a real test of Microsoft's power. It might be just the boost
> >> Linux needs to go mainstream in a big way.
>
> >> And you know Apple loves it.
>
> > <Chuckle> Yep!
>
> > One thing my sister in law says, is "they tried to make Vista look like the
> > Apple OS's. If I had wanted that, I would have gotten a Mac!"
>
> If it worked like an Apple, that would be cool.
> Superficially steeling the Apple styling isn't worth much.
>
> Oddly, we've had to do darn little as a software manufacturer
> to go form Windows 95 to NT to 2000 to XP (other than picking
> up NEW features). Vista broke that. I had to task two guys
> for a few weeks fixing things up. It's not just us that's
> running into the problem.

In another branch, Matt Barrow wrote:

> Lose the corporate AND the vast majority of the consumer ("power user")
> market, and you're in trouble. Lose the geeks and you're in SERIOUS trouble.

Lose developer support and you're done.

[john smith[_2_]]

In article >,
Ron Natalie > wrote:

> Morgans wrote:
> > "Dan Luke"> wrote
> >
> >> This will be a real test of Microsoft's power. It might be just the boost
> >> Linux needs to go mainstream in a big way.
> >>
> >> And you know Apple loves it.
> >
> > <Chuckle> Yep!
> >
> > One thing my sister in law says, is "they tried to make Vista look like the
> > Apple OS's. If I had wanted that, I would have gotten a Mac!"
>
> If it worked like an Apple, that would be cool.
> Superficially steeling the Apple styling isn't worth much.
>
> Oddly, we've had to do darn little as a software manufacturer
> to go form Windows 95 to NT to 2000 to XP (other than picking
> up NEW features). Vista broke that. I had to task two guys
> for a few weeks fixing things up. It's not just us that's
> running into the problem.

Just wait until the recording industry trade group decides they don't
like your audio and/or video card and tells MS to enforce the terms of
their agreement and turn off the drivers for your particular card.

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:09:21 -0400, Jose >
wrote:

>> This will be a real test of Microsoft's power.
>
>Microsoft can just wait, and machines will get more powerful, and people
>will get used to the intrusive security.
>
Or they will get fed up with it, DRM, and rebel.
I already see a lot of computing professionals doing that. They only
go to Vista if they need to for programming. It's interesting to note
they have extended the support plans for XP to the point where it'll
be supported after Vista has been replaced with the next OS. At least
that is what they said a couple months back.

>Jose

[Jose]

> Or they will get fed up with it, DRM, and rebel.
> I already see a lot of computing professionals doing that. They only
> go to Vista if they need to for programming.

The way it seems to work is that new programs are written that use, and
even require, the new OS. Eventually people need those capabilites, and
pony up. Microsoft can afford to just sit and wait for that to happen.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:42:22 -0400, Jose >
wrote:

>> Or they will get fed up with it, DRM, and rebel.
>> I already see a lot of computing professionals doing that. They only
>> go to Vista if they need to for programming.
>
>The way it seems to work is that new programs are written that use, and
>even require, the new OS. Eventually people need those capabilites, and
>pony up.

Maybe and maybe not. Most businesses can get by with less horsepower
and older apps without a problem. The only thing Vista has to offer is
it looks pretty and is a little more secure than XP with the default
settings which are a lot more annoying if you have to work on the
things. Of course the DRM comes free but adds overhead and reduces the
things you can do even with your own stuff, but so do the lack of
drivers.

Normally I'm an early adopter, but not this time.

> Microsoft can afford to just sit and wait for that to happen.
>
Several trade journals have called Vista the ME of 2007.

>Jose