31 Days till OSH

[Jay Honeck]

The grounds opened today (man, you've gotta be hard-core to fly in
THIS early!), and it's shaping up to be another great show.

This'll be our 25th in a row, God willin' and the crik don't rise.

Who's in?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:


>
> Who's in?


We'll be there Sunday.

Can you safely take bottled beer up to 17,000' in an unpressurized airplane?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Dan Luke" > wrote:

> Can you safely take bottled beer up to 17,000' in an unpressurized airplane?

I don't know. However, let me say that experience has taught me that
the mess created by "exploding" bottles of homemade rootbeer can
be contained by wrapping each bottle in newspaper and putting
the wrapped bottles in a big plastic bag.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Dan Luke]

"Bob Noel" wrote:

>> Can you safely take bottled beer up to 17,000' in an unpressurized
>> airplane?
>
> I don't know. However, let me say that experience has taught me that
> the mess created by "exploding" bottles of homemade rootbeer can
> be contained by wrapping each bottle in newspaper and putting
> the wrapped bottles in a big plastic bag.
>

Roger that.

I think we'll put it inside the cooler and bungee the top on.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[john smith]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Who's in?

The airplane is reserved.
I have to wait for the Little French Girl to tell me what days she has
free so I can give her a ride.

[Jay Honeck]

> Can you safely take bottled beer up to 17,000' in an unpressurized airplane?

Only if it's carried internally...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Jun 21, 11:12 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> The grounds opened today (man, you've gotta be hard-core to fly in
> THIS early!), and it's shaping up to be another great show.
>
> This'll be our 25th in a row, God willin' and the crik don't rise.
>
> Who's in?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

I'm gonna be a vendor this year at the outdoor experimental aircraft
area. AeroLEDs.

Damn, only 31 days left to scramble to get ready... AAAAAA!!!!!

[Jay Honeck]

> I'm gonna be a vendor this year at the outdoor experimental aircraft
> area. AeroLEDs.

Cool! Are these the new whiz-bang LED position lights?

I checked 'em out yesterday for my plane. Whelen wants $306 PER WING
TIP, for a friggin' position light!

I just laughed. I hope your product is a little more realistically
priced!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Jun 22, 12:30 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > I'm gonna be a vendor this year at the outdoor experimental aircraft
> > area. AeroLEDs.
>
> Cool! Are these the new whiz-bang LED position lights?
>
> I checked 'em out yesterday for my plane. Whelen wants $306 PER WING
> TIP, for a friggin' position light!
>
> I just laughed. I hope your product is a little more realistically
> priced!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Hi Jay,

Not position lights... come by and see us and you'll see what it is.

Dean

[Ross]

wrote:
> On Jun 22, 12:30 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
>>>I'm gonna be a vendor this year at the outdoor experimental aircraft
>>>area. AeroLEDs.
>>
>>Cool! Are these the new whiz-bang LED position lights?
>>
>>I checked 'em out yesterday for my plane. Whelen wants $306 PER WING
>>TIP, for a friggin' position light!
>>
>>I just laughed. I hope your product is a little more realistically
>>priced!
>>--
>>Jay Honeck
>>Iowa City, IA
>>Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
>>"Your Aviation Destination"
>
>
> Hi Jay,
>
> Not position lights... come by and see us and you'll see what it is.
>
> Dean
>

A $500.00 landing light? http://aeroleds.com/products.html

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[xyzzy]

On Jun 22, 1:12 am, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> The grounds opened today (man, you've gotta be hard-core to fly in
> THIS early!), and it's shaping up to be another great show.
>
> This'll be our 25th in a row, God willin' and the crik don't rise.
>
> Who's in?

I will be flying into my first Oshkosh this year.

[Thomas Borchert]

> Not position lights... come by and see us and you'll see what it is.
>

And all of us who don't go to OSH will never know? That's a weird
marketing scheme you're starting out with. Is that a product I even
want to be interested in?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Ross,

> A $500.00 landing light?
>

A non-certified $500 landing light...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Blueskies]

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message ...
> Ross,
>
>> A $500.00 landing light?
>>
>
> A non-certified $500 landing light...
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>

You gotta start somewhere...built in wig/wag and miserly power...life will exceed airframe...

[[email protected]]

On Jun 22, 3:05 pm, Thomas Borchert >
wrote:
> > Not position lights... come by and see us and you'll see what it is.
>
> And all of us who don't go to OSH will never know? That's a weird
> marketing scheme you're starting out with. Is that a product I even
> want to be interested in?
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Hi Thomas,

Sorry, this was just a casual mention. It really isn't the start of
our marketing effort. Oshkosh is our first public showing, after that
we plan on marketing to a broader audience...

Check back to our website later and there will be more info...

Dean

[[email protected]]

On Jun 22, 3:18 pm, "Blueskies" > wrote:
> "Thomas Borchert" > wrote in ...
> > Ross,
>
> >> A $500.00 landing light?
>
> > A non-certified $500 landing light...
>
> > --
> > Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>
> You gotta start somewhere...built in wig/wag and miserly power...life will exceed airframe...

They are less expensive to buy them in a pair, and we will have an
Oshkosh show special.

Our cost of manufacturing them should come down as we make more of
them and can cost-reduce the mechanicals, but these things take
time.

We are still less expensive that the HID lights, and ours will never
need a bulb change.

[RST Engineering]

And even worse is the fact that one of the persons who selects "Best Of
Show" awards for the new products forum is a regular on this newsgroup and
may completely overlook them at The Show.

Too bad.

Jim

--
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."
--James Dean


"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
>> Not position lights... come by and see us and you'll see what it is.
>>
>
> And all of us who don't go to OSH will never know? That's a weird
> marketing scheme you're starting out with. Is that a product I even
> want to be interested in?
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>

[Dan Luke]

"Thomas Borchert" wrote:

>
> And all of us who don't go to OSH ...


OK, it's probably too late this year...how about next year?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Montblack]

("xyzzy" wrote)
>> Who's in?
>
> I will be flying into my first Oshkosh this year.


Will you be around on Wednesday evening for the (5th Annual) rec.aviation
party?


Paul-Mont

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> The grounds opened today (man, you've gotta be hard-core to fly in
> THIS early!), and it's shaping up to be another great show.

Wow! Has it really been almost a year since the last Osh Kosh?
Boy time flies!
Crash Lander
--
http://straightandlevel1973.spaces.live.com/
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong!

[[email protected]]

On Jun 22, 5:27 pm, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> And even worse is the fact that one of the persons who selects "Best Of
> Show" awards for the new products forum is a regular on this newsgroup and
> may completely overlook them at The Show.
>
> Too bad.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."
> --James Dean
>
> "Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >> Not position lights... come by and see us and you'll see what it is.
>
> > And all of us who don't go to OSH will never know? That's a weird
> > marketing scheme you're starting out with. Is that a product I even
> > want to be interested in?
>
> > --
> > Thomas Borchert (EDDH)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Jim,

We are planning on having a press conference at Osh. You go to those
don't you?

Dean

[Dan Luke]

"Crash Lander" wrote:

> Wow! Has it really been almost a year since the last Osh Kosh?
> Boy time flies!


When you're 60, a year lasts about 20 minutes.


--
Dan

"Don't make me nervous when I'm carryin' a baseball bat."
- Big Joe Turner, "Honey Hush"

[Thomas Borchert]

> We are still less expensive that the HID lights, and ours will never
> need a bulb change.
>

Excellent point. Now get them certified ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Dan,

> OK, it's probably too late this year...how about next year?
>

I've been twice - and I can't wait to go again. It's just a lot of
effort coming from Germany.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[[email protected]]

On Jun 23, 1:58 am, Thomas Borchert >
wrote:
> > We are still less expensive that the HID lights, and ours will never
> > need a bulb change.
>
> Excellent point. Now get them certified ;-)
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

We are working towards that... hopefully we'll be there in 6 months.

[RST Engineering]

If it is publicized and if I don't have another forum at that time and if
there is sufficient grabber in the press release and if it isn't at 8 am or
5 pm and if we don't have another appointment, then perhaps.

Why all the posing and coyness? Just tell us what you've got and if it is
that cool then we'll make it our business to sort you out at The Show.
Yeah, I know. You're just an engineer. Me too. But I never miss an
opportunity to tell people about "my new baby".

Jim

--
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."
--James Dean


>
> Hi Jim,
>
> We are planning on having a press conference at Osh. You go to those
> don't you?
>
> Dean
>

[[email protected]]

On Jun 23, 9:27 am, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> If it is publicized and if I don't have another forum at that time and if
> there is sufficient grabber in the press release and if it isn't at 8 am or
> 5 pm and if we don't have another appointment, then perhaps.
>
> Why all the posing and coyness? Just tell us what you've got and if it is
> that cool then we'll make it our business to sort you out at The Show.
> Yeah, I know. You're just an engineer. Me too. But I never miss an
> opportunity to tell people about "my new baby".
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."
> --James Dean
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Jim,
>
> > We are planning on having a press conference at Osh. You go to those
> > don't you?
>
> > Dean- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Jim,

I didn't mean to seem coy, I just wasn't trying to make any sort of
announcement here...

Dean

[Jay Honeck]

> I didn't mean to seem coy, I just wasn't trying to make any sort of
> announcement here...

Jeez, Dean -- this newsgroup is read by thousands of pilots --
announce away!

The product sounds absolutely AWESOME. When you certify them, I'll be
in line.

Now, if someone could only replace standard incandescent bulbs with
LEDs, I'd buy 'em tomorrow... To never change another g*($#@@ light
bulb at the inn would be worth a lot of money to me!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[RST Engineering]

Jay,

You should really look at the new compact fluorescents. The old ones were
sort of yellowish and had a tendency to pop if you looked at them crosseyed,
but the new ones are really sturdy, white, and I haven't changed one in
three or four years. I've got them in the house, in the shop, in the lab,
and in the hangar. I remember that on one of our first trips to the
hardware store when Gail moved to California we got a raft of them for our
computer benches. I just looked up and out of 7 bulbs that burn almost 8-10
hours a day, three of them were from that first batch --- and that was 1995.

I don't know how Iowa Gas and Electric (or whatever the name is) has the
same sort of promo that Pacific Gas and Electric has, but every now and
again PG&E will kick in with a deal where you can get as many of the bulbs
as you want for about half the normal price. AND in the deal you get about
four to five times the efficiency of an incandescent bulb.

Jim

--
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."
--James Dean

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...


> Now, if someone could only replace standard incandescent bulbs with
> LEDs, I'd buy 'em tomorrow... To never change another g*($#@@ light
> bulb at the inn would be worth a lot of money to me!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

> You should really look at the new compact fluorescents.

I replaced all the hallway lights on the first floor of one of our
buildings with compact fluroescent, as an experiment.

Yes, they burn out far less often, and put out far less heat. They're
probably more efficient, too -- but, damn, it makes the hallway look
like something out of "The Matrix". In fact, that's what our staff
calls that hallway now. (I'll show it to you when you're here next
month.)

Until they get rid of that weird flickery greenish/yellowish coloring,
I don't want to switch any more.

LEDs would sure be nice, but none of the light bulb companies
apparently want to put their "bread & butter" at risk.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Marty Shapiro]

Jay Honeck > wrote in
oups.com:

>> You should really look at the new compact fluorescents.
>
> I replaced all the hallway lights on the first floor of one of our
> buildings with compact fluroescent, as an experiment.
>
> Yes, they burn out far less often, and put out far less heat. They're
> probably more efficient, too -- but, damn, it makes the hallway look
> like something out of "The Matrix". In fact, that's what our staff
> calls that hallway now. (I'll show it to you when you're here next
> month.)
>
> Until they get rid of that weird flickery greenish/yellowish coloring,
> I don't want to switch any more.
>
> LEDs would sure be nice, but none of the light bulb companies
> apparently want to put their "bread & butter" at risk.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>
>

Have you looked at http://www.ledlight.com/?

As for the CFL lights, there is a "daylight" version which looks very much
like sunlight. I tried them and like them, but they do take some getting
used to. Like everyone else, I was used to the warm yellow from
incadescents and switching to the "daylight" fluourescent is a very
noticeable change. I got these "daylight" CFLs at Home Depot Expo. I've
even switched my 4' fluourescent tubes over to the "daylight" version.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

> Until they get rid of that weird flickery greenish/yellowish coloring,
> I don't want to switch any more.
>

They come in different color temperatures, Jay. Also, quality does matter;
you might have gotten some bad ones. I've been very pleased with the ones
I've bought at Home depot. Get the "daylight white" ones next time.

In a hotel, they could really save you a lot of utility costs.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[john smith]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Jay,
> You should really look at the new compact fluorescents. The old ones were
> sort of yellowish and had a tendency to pop if you looked at them crosseyed,
> but the new ones are really sturdy, white, and I haven't changed one in
> three or four years. I've got them in the house, in the shop, in the lab,
> and in the hangar. I remember that on one of our first trips to the
> hardware store when Gail moved to California we got a raft of them for our
> computer benches. I just looked up and out of 7 bulbs that burn almost 8-10
> hours a day, three of them were from that first batch --- and that was 1995.

I have been using them since 1997. Initially, I used them for the porch
and garage lights. They are on 24/7/365. They last over one-year before
requiring replacement.

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote

> We are still less expensive that the HID lights, and ours will never
> need a bulb change.

How do they compare in lumens, and in beam width and height?
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> 1) How do I find the Wed. party (I'm a notorious party crasher)?

It's easy. Just go to the EAA camp registration booth at the entrance
to the North 40, and give them our "N" number (N56993).

They will give you a precise campsite number, and provide vectors for
a safe approach to all that beer!

(Remember to go to the EAA booth BEFORE the airshow! If you wait till
after the airshow, you'll likely find them closed!)


> 2) Has anyone tried to get a UPS delivery at the campground?

Delivery? I've heard that's possible, but they'll deliver it to the
UPS booth on the field, and you've got to pick it up from there.

Every year we ship a TON of stuff home from Airventure (usually dirty
laundry!), and it works great to give you more useful load for all the
stuff we buy there each year!

I hope you make it -- the rec.aviation party is REALLY fun, very
relaxed, and it's a blast to actually meet the people you've "known"
here for so long...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom McQuinn]

> Delivery? I've heard that's possible, but they'll deliver it to the
> UPS booth on the field, and you've got to pick it up from there.
>
I talked to the guy in the UPS tent last year. I think he said you have
two options - the UPS tent on the show grounds and a UPS store that
didn't sound very far away. I am toying with shipping my Diblasi
scooter there and it would be a bit much to bring back to camp via
shuttle car. Then again, I haven't see what the shipping would
cost..........

Tom

[RST Engineering]

The UPS store is north of the field about 8-10 miles on the main drag that
goes by the Pioneer Inn, through downtown Oshkosh, and then becomes a back
road to Appleton.

JIm

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown



"Tom McQuinn" > wrote in message
...

> I talked to the guy in the UPS tent last year. I think he said you have
> two options - the UPS tent on the show grounds and a UPS store that didn't
> sound very far away.

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> [Compact fluorescents] burn out far less often, and put out far less
> heat. They're probably more efficient, too

All true. Remember, in the summer, you get to pay for much more than
the power an incandescent lamp draws - you put, say, 60 W into the lamp
and get, say 5 W of light and 55 W of heat. Then you have to run the
air conditioner longer to pump that 55 W of heat outside. Swap that for
a 13 W CFL and not only does more of that 13 W turn into light, less of
it turns into heat that you have to pump outside. The flip side with
CFLs is that in the winter, you have to run the furnace longer to make
up for the heat that you aren't getting from incandescent lamps.

> -- but, damn, it makes the hallway look like something out of "The
> Matrix". In fact, that's what our staff calls that hallway now.

As has been mentioned, you can get them in different color temperatures.
Unfortunately, even though most lamps (incandescent, CFL, whatever) have
the watts and lumens clearly marked on the packaging, the color
temperature is not often marked or is not marked clearly. I did see
some CFLs at either Lowe's or Home Depot that had packages marked "cool"
in blue letters or "warm" in red letters, which is at least a start.

Lamp geeks will talk about color temperature in degrees Kelvin, like
"2800 K". Fluorescent lamps are sometimes marked this way, but sometimes
they use a code like "28" for 2800 K, "30" for 3000 K, and sometimes
aren't marked at all. The big fusion reactor that runs the world has a
color temperature of about 5785 K. A plain old incandescent lamp is
about 2800 K. Some CFLs are way over 3500 K, although ones down to
2700 K are available. A higher color temperature is usually described
as "colder" light, while lower is "warmer".

There is another number called the Color Rendering Index or CRI that is
supposed to show how well colors appear to human vision. I think it can
be computed for any lamp, but it is most often quoted for fluorescent
lamps. A CRI of 100 is "perfect"; a good-quality fluorescent lamp will
probably be in the high 80s or low 90s.

Most of the "big name" manufacturers have lamp catalogs with a lot of
technical data online, and this can be a good way to find out the real
specs of what you can get in the local stores. (It's safe to assume
that the employees at the big-box store will be clueless.) They may
also have "recommend a lamp" features on their Web sites, either
automated or with a human. Another option might be to talk to a local
or regional lamp distributor; the salesman there should be able to give
you some level of advice on what lamps will look good in what situations.
Also, if you're in a restaurant or another hotel, look at the fixtures
to see what they're using. If they are CFLs and you like the way they
look, get a part number from the lamp (if you can reach it) or inquire
of the management.

> LEDs would sure be nice, but none of the light bulb companies
> apparently want to put their "bread & butter" at risk.

The reason that there aren't white LED lamps is the same reason that
there aren't battery-electric airplanes. :) Right now, for "white"
light, fluorescent lamps are just about the most efficient thing
around. To make money, LEDs have to beat fluorescents and they aren't
quite there yet - but probably will get there within the next few years.

If you want a particular color of light, LED lamps are already about the
most efficient way to get it. LEDs are catching on for stage lighting
in a big way; not only are they not nearly as hot, but you can have one
fixture with red, green, and blue LEDs in it and a knob on the back (or
a computer connection) so you can dial up any color you like. LEDs also
last a long time, which is part of the reason why they are popular in
applications like traffic lights, where labor cost to replace is a good
chunk of the budget. In the past few years, some of the red warning
lamps on radio towers and other aerial obstacles appear to be LEDs as
well.

Matt Roberds

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote

> Lamp geeks will talk about color temperature in degrees Kelvin, like
> "2800 K". Fluorescent lamps are sometimes marked this way, but sometimes
> they use a code like "28" for 2800 K, "30" for 3000 K, and sometimes
> aren't marked at all.

Check again, now. Most of the fluorescents I see at Lowe's DO have the
Kelvin temperature on the package.
--
Jim in NC

[xyzzy]

On Jun 22, 7:58 pm, "Montblack" <Y4_NOT!...
> wrote:
> ("xyzzy" wrote)
>
> >> Who's in?
>
> > I will be flying into my first Oshkosh this year.
>
> Will you be around on Wednesday evening for the (5th Annual) rec.aviation
> party?

If I am I'll be looking for it, but I'll be part of a club trip, and
traditionally our groups arrive early (Saturday) and leave early.

[[email protected]]

> The reason that there aren't white LED lamps is the same reason that
> there aren't battery-electric airplanes. :) Right now, for "white"
> light, fluorescent lamps are just about the most efficient thing
> around. To make money, LEDs have to beat fluorescents and they aren't
> quite there yet - but probably will get there within the next few years.
>

>
> Matt Roberds

Matt,

Actually, that's not quite true. LEDs have just hit efficiencies of
90 lumens per watt, which is comparable to compact fluorescent. The
biggest barrier to LED light bulbs right now is cost, but that should
also change soon.

Dean

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> When you're 60, a year lasts about 20 minutes.
> --
> Dan

LOL!
Crash Lander
--
http://straightandlevel1973.spaces.live.com/
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong!

[Jay Honeck]

> When you're 60, a year lasts about 20 minutes.

Hell, it's already that way at 48.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> The grounds opened today

Time to start planning the schedule too. The forum times are up at
http://www.airventure.org/forums/

To make it easier for everyone, here's a couple to put in your planners
right away:

http://www.airventure.org/forums/presenter.asp?EventID=12&PresenterID=673

Date Time Location Short Title
7/23 1:00 PM - 2:15 PM 09 Honda Generator Solar Electrics for The
Hangar- Update on Homemade Strobe Lights
7/25 10:00 AM - 11:15 AM 10 Poly-Fiber Technology & Research
The Best Avionics

Presenter: Jim Weir is the CEO and Chief Engineer of RST Engineering
which he founded in 1974. He is an author of over 200 articles on
electronics design and avionics. Jim worked on the Rutan Voyager program
designing antenna systems, engine instrumentation and fuel timing
devices. Prior to starting RST Engineering Jim was involved in
developing RF systems for Viking, Apollo and Surveyor. Jim is also a
part-time professor in electronics at Sierra College and was selected
"Teacher of the Year" in 2000.

It looks like Jim's got to use a bit of sunscreen before taking the
publicity photo that was used on that page though.

[[email protected]]

Morgans > wrote:
> > wrote
>> Lamp geeks will talk about color temperature in degrees Kelvin, like
>> "2800 K". Fluorescent lamps are sometimes marked this way, but sometimes
>> they use a code like "28" for 2800 K, "30" for 3000 K, and sometimes
>> aren't marked at all.
>
> Check again, now. Most of the fluorescents I see at Lowe's DO have the
> Kelvin temperature on the package.

I was at Home Depot the other day and it was indeed marked on most of
the CFLs they sold. It wasn't on the front in the little "lumens/watts/
hours" box (where I think it should go), but it _was_ printed on the back.
The "nvision" brand had three different color temperatures available and
the packages were printed in different colors on a white background. IIRC
red was "soft white" and about 2800 K; green was "bright white" and about
3500 K, and blue was "sunlight" or "daylight" and about 5500 K.

Matt Roberds

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> wrote:
>> The reason that there aren't white LED lamps is the same reason that
>> there aren't battery-electric airplanes. :) Right now, for "white"
>> light, fluorescent lamps are just about the most efficient thing
>> around. To make money, LEDs have to beat fluorescents and they aren't
>> quite there yet - but probably will get there within the next few years.
>
> Actually, that's not quite true. LEDs have just hit efficiencies of
> 90 lumens per watt, which is comparable to compact fluorescent.

In a lab, with a junction temperature of 25 C (in other words, on a heat
sink with Freon running through it.) :) 90 lm/W in an LED lamp that
your grandmother can buy and install in her kitchen is still a ways off.
I have no doubt it's coming but it's not here yet.

Matt Roberds

[RST Engineering]

<blush>

There must be some mistake. I haven't given a forum in fifteen years
without being up against either Burt Rutan, Rod Machado, Dick Rutan, or Mike
Melville. What is going on with scheduling this year? {;-)

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)" > wrote in
message ...


> Date Time Location Short Title
> 7/23 1:00 PM - 2:15 PM 09 Honda Generator Solar Electrics for The Hangar-
> Update on Homemade Strobe Lights
> 7/25 10:00 AM - 11:15 AM 10 Poly-Fiber Technology & Research
> The Best Avionics
>
> Presenter: Jim Weir

[RST Engineering]

>> wrote:
>>> The reason that there aren't white LED lamps is the same reason that
>>> there aren't battery-electric airplanes. :) Right now, for "white"
>>> light, fluorescent lamps are just about the most efficient thing
>>> around. To make money, LEDs have to beat fluorescents and they aren't
>>> quite there yet - but probably will get there within the next few years.
>>
>> Actually, that's not quite true. LEDs have just hit efficiencies of
>> 90 lumens per watt, which is comparable to compact fluorescent.

According to Klipstein (probably the most knowledgeable person on the
subject of lighting that I know) CFLs are still down at around 55-60 lm/w.
Only 32FT8 fluorescents are up in the 90+ lm/w range. (See upcoming
November KP article or the Monday Oshkosh forum.)

The below by Matt is also true. Lab conditions and home workshops are not
in the same league.

Jim

>
> In a lab, with a junction temperature of 25 C (in other words, on a heat
> sink with Freon running through it.) :) 90 lm/W in an LED lamp that
> your grandmother can buy and install in her kitchen is still a ways off.
> I have no doubt it's coming but it's not here yet.
>
> Matt Roberds
>

[JSBOUGHER]

On Jun 23, 3:58 am, Thomas Borchert >
wrote:
> Dan,
>
> > OK, it's probably too late this year...how about next year?
>
> I've been twice - and I can't wait to go again. It's just a lot of
> effort coming from Germany.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)


My son and I will be coming this year from Wuxi, China (6,920
miles :^). Plan to arrive OSH either Tuesday or Wednesday and will
bring a case of Tsingtao if my wife lets me load up the suitcase. Am
leaving the Velocity parked in long-term storage but will try to
arrive in my dad's Mooney. What are the chances of getting into "the
show" on Tuesday and/or Wednesday?

Jeff

[[email protected]]

On Jun 25, 12:50 pm, wrote:
> wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> The reason that there aren't white LED lamps is the same reason that
> >> there aren't battery-electric airplanes. :) Right now, for "white"
> >> light, fluorescent lamps are just about the most efficient thing
> >> around. To make money, LEDs have to beat fluorescents and they aren't
> >> quite there yet - but probably will get there within the next few years.
>
> > Actually, that's not quite true. LEDs have just hit efficiencies of
> > 90 lumens per watt, which is comparable to compact fluorescent.
>
> In a lab, with a junction temperature of 25 C (in other words, on a heat
> sink with Freon running through it.) :) 90 lm/W in an LED lamp that
> your grandmother can buy and install in her kitchen is still a ways off.
> I have no doubt it's coming but it's not here yet.
>
> Matt Roberds

If you say so... :)

[Jay Honeck]

>What are the chances of getting into "the
> show" on Tuesday and/or Wednesday?

Unless Airventure flies in the face of the other fly-ins I've been to
this year, you shouldn't have any trouble getting in on any day.

Sun & Fun and Cherokee Pilots Association fly-in attendance was WAY
down -- some say as much at 25%. I'm hoping OSH isn't affected the
same way.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Jun 23, 10:00 am, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > I didn't mean to seem coy, I just wasn't trying to make any sort of
> > announcement here...
>
> Jeez, Dean -- this newsgroup is read by thousands of pilots --
> announce away!
>
> The product sounds absolutely AWESOME. When you certify them, I'll be
> in line.
>
> Now, if someone could only replace standard incandescent bulbs with
> LEDs, I'd buy 'em tomorrow... To never change another g*($#@@ light
> bulb at the inn would be worth a lot of money to me!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

How much would you be willing to pay for an LED light bulb that put
out 800 lumens on 12 Watts of power? (yes, I am considering making
such a beast)

Dean

[Jay Honeck]

> How much would you be willing to pay for an LED light bulb that put
> out 800 lumens on 12 Watts of power? (yes, I am considering making
> such a beast)

Um, er, I don't know. Is this for the plane? The hotel? How many
lumens does a (for example) standard 60 watt incandescent bulb kick
out?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Jun 25, 10:33 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > How much would you be willing to pay for an LED light bulb that put
> > out 800 lumens on 12 Watts of power? (yes, I am considering making
> > such a beast)
>
> Um, er, I don't know. Is this for the plane? The hotel? How many
> lumens does a (for example) standard 60 watt incandescent bulb kick
> out?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

This is a lightbulb replacement. A 60 Watt incandescent puts out
about 650 lumens.

Dean

[Jose]

> How much would you be willing to pay for an LED light bulb that put
> out 800 lumens on 12 Watts of power? (yes, I am considering making
> such a beast)

What would the color curve look like?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[RST Engineering]

Jay (and others of a technical bent)...

Here is a page showing the relative efficiencies of the various forms of
light emitters:

http://members.misty.com/don/lfunfact.html#lw

Note that amongst the "normal" forms of lighting that you can buy over the
counter, the most efficient is the small 1" diameter 32 watt fluorescent in
a 4' tube (F32T8) at about 90 lumens/watt. The best LEDs as of the date
this was written is about 70 lumens/watt.

Dean is proposing an LED (or string of them) that puts out 67 lumens/watt,
but as the page says, this does not include any ballast losses. White LEDs
have a forward voltage drop of about 3 volts/lamp, so to get decent
efficiency you string 4 of them in series to get CLOSE to 12 volts, but you
still wind up fudging around with ballast resistors and/or switching current
regulators to keep the power to the devices constant. And, they are going
to get hotter than billy blue blazes unless you keep airflow over them.

The LED is probably going to be the "light bulb" of the future (see
http://www.superbrightleds.com/ for a smattering of what is on the market)
and notice way down at the bottom of the "LEDS" page that there are some one
watt devices on the market with integral heat sinks. These suckers are
BRIGHT and expensive, but as with all mass marketed devices, once the auto
industry picks up on them, they become dirt cheap.

And, on Don's page (again) you find that a 60 watt incandescent light bulb
puts out about 600 lumens, or a lousy 10 lumens/watt. The sooner we abandon
Edison's invention the better.

Jim



--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown
> wrote in message
oups.com...


>
> Jay,
>
> How much would you be willing to pay for an LED light bulb that put
> out 800 lumens on 12 Watts of power? (yes, I am considering making
> such a beast)
>
> Dean
>

[Jose]

> And, [LED lights] are going to get hotter than
> billy blue blazes unless you keep airflow over them.

Moreso than the edison invention? If so, where's the efficiency coming
from?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[RST Engineering]

Let's take ten watts from a battery or from the wall plug.

A light bulb (just for illustration sake, don't take the numbers as gospel)
spends 9.9 of those watts generating heat and 0.1 of the watts generating
light.

An LED spends 9 of those watts generating heat and 1 of those watts
generating light. The LED is therefore about ten times as efficient as a
light bulb.

However, the light bulb has about five or six square inches over which to
get rid of the 9.9 watts of heat (although the bulb is still very hot) while
the LED has less than a quarter of a square inch (without a heat sink) to
get rid of the 9 watts. Which one do you think will get hotter?

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"Jose" > wrote in message
et...

>> And, [LED lights] are going to get hotter than
>> billy blue blazes unless you keep airflow over them.
>
> Moreso than the edison invention? If so, where's the efficiency coming
> from?
>
> Jose

[[email protected]]

On Jun 26, 3:50 pm, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> Let's take ten watts from a battery or from the wall plug.
>
> A light bulb (just for illustration sake, don't take the numbers as gospel)
> spends 9.9 of those watts generating heat and 0.1 of the watts generating
> light.
>
> An LED spends 9 of those watts generating heat and 1 of those watts
> generating light. The LED is therefore about ten times as efficient as a
> light bulb.
>
> However, the light bulb has about five or six square inches over which to
> get rid of the 9.9 watts of heat (although the bulb is still very hot) while
> the LED has less than a quarter of a square inch (without a heat sink) to
> get rid of the 9 watts. Which one do you think will get hotter?
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
> a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
> the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
> --Unknown
>
> "Jose" > wrote in message
>
> et...
>
>
>
> >> And, [LED lights] are going to get hotter than
> >> billy blue blazes unless you keep airflow over them.
>
> > Moreso than the edison invention? If so, where's the efficiency coming
> > from?
>
> > Jose- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Jim,

Actually, the lightbulb dissipates most of its heat as Infra-red
radiation so it dosn't get terribly hot (other than the filament).
Remember that the visible light is only the tail of the black-body
radiation spectrum emitted by the bulb, so from a pure radiation
perspective its fairly efficient, but not from a visible light
perspective.

The LEDs have to dissipate most all of their waste heat via conduction
and convection, and very little by radiation. So they have their own
thermal challenges.

But there are ways to make it work....

Dean

[Morgans[_2_]]

"RST Engineering" < wrote

> There must be some mistake. I haven't given a forum in fifteen years
> without being up against either Burt Rutan, Rod Machado, Dick Rutan, or
> Mike Melville. What is going on with scheduling this year? {;-)

Burt isn't going to even be there, this year? <gd&r>
;-)
--
Jim in NC

[Margy Natalie]

Marty Shapiro wrote:
> Jay Honeck > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
>
>>>You should really look at the new compact fluorescents.
>>
>>I replaced all the hallway lights on the first floor of one of our
>>buildings with compact fluroescent, as an experiment.
>>
>>Yes, they burn out far less often, and put out far less heat. They're
>>probably more efficient, too -- but, damn, it makes the hallway look
>>like something out of "The Matrix". In fact, that's what our staff
>>calls that hallway now. (I'll show it to you when you're here next
>>month.)
>>
>>Until they get rid of that weird flickery greenish/yellowish coloring,
>>I don't want to switch any more.
>>
>>LEDs would sure be nice, but none of the light bulb companies
>>apparently want to put their "bread & butter" at risk.
>>--
>>Jay Honeck
>>Iowa City, IA
>>Pathfinder N56993
>>www.AlexisParkInn.com
>>"Your Aviation Destination"
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Have you looked at http://www.ledlight.com/?
>
> As for the CFL lights, there is a "daylight" version which looks very much
> like sunlight. I tried them and like them, but they do take some getting
> used to. Like everyone else, I was used to the warm yellow from
> incadescents and switching to the "daylight" fluourescent is a very
> noticeable change. I got these "daylight" CFLs at Home Depot Expo. I've
> even switched my 4' fluourescent tubes over to the "daylight" version.
>
I bought mongo full spectrum CFLs for my plants and when I first put
them in I thought "too blue". The next morning as I walked down the
stairs I thought "Damned Ron, he left the front door open again", but
when I got downstairs the door was shut. The lights make perfect daylight!

Margy