One, big sh*t-eating grin...!

[Jay Honeck]

My son's first flight lesson came off as planned today, despite nasty
weather all around. Amazingly, as if by magic, the skies cleared and
the winds calmed, right at the appointed time.

Joe walked over to the airport from the hotel, after working several
hours on the pool and in our future "Flying Tigers Suite". It's
certainly handy, working just 400 yards from the airport...

Almost three hours later, his flight instructor dropped him off in the
lobby, and there was my 16-year-old son, logbook tucked under his arm,
walking through the door as if his feet were still not touching the
ground.

What a grin! You could see that his face was starting to hurt, from
stretching so far and for so long, but still that gigantic, self-
satisfied grin remained firmly in place. His hands moved like moths
flitting around a flame, and he simply could not sit down, as he
excitedly told us that "Gary let me land the plane!" -- and he had
"greased it on"!

He went on and on, while Mary and I just laughed and laughed,
remembering that giddy, wonderful, almost-scared-but-way-excited
feeling when we first took those initial steps into the sky.

Tomorrow he starts ground-reference maneuvers. What fun!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[BT]

congrats Jay... and Mary.. and to the son,,
Bill

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> My son's first flight lesson came off as planned today, despite nasty
> weather all around. Amazingly, as if by magic, the skies cleared and
> the winds calmed, right at the appointed time.
>
> Joe walked over to the airport from the hotel, after working several
> hours on the pool and in our future "Flying Tigers Suite". It's
> certainly handy, working just 400 yards from the airport...
>
> Almost three hours later, his flight instructor dropped him off in the
> lobby, and there was my 16-year-old son, logbook tucked under his arm,
> walking through the door as if his feet were still not touching the
> ground.
>
> What a grin! You could see that his face was starting to hurt, from
> stretching so far and for so long, but still that gigantic, self-
> satisfied grin remained firmly in place. His hands moved like moths
> flitting around a flame, and he simply could not sit down, as he
> excitedly told us that "Gary let me land the plane!" -- and he had
> "greased it on"!
>
> He went on and on, while Mary and I just laughed and laughed,
> remembering that giddy, wonderful, almost-scared-but-way-excited
> feeling when we first took those initial steps into the sky.
>
> Tomorrow he starts ground-reference maneuvers. What fun!
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Marty[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> My son's first flight lesson came off as planned today, despite nasty
> weather all around. Amazingly, as if by magic, the skies cleared and
> the winds calmed, right at the appointed time.
>
> SNIP
> Tomorrow he starts ground-reference maneuvers. What fun!
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Congrats Joe!
Can we look forward to Joe posting his progress at rec.aviation.student?
;-)

Marty in MO

[george]

On Jun 23, 4:34 pm, "Marty" > wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > My son's first flight lesson came off as planned today, despite nasty
> > weather all around. Amazingly, as if by magic, the skies cleared and
> > the winds calmed, right at the appointed time.
>
> > SNIP
> > Tomorrow he starts ground-reference maneuvers. What fun!
>
> > ;-)
> > --
> > Jay Honeck
> > Iowa City, IA
> > Pathfinder N56993
> >www.AlexisParkInn.com
> > "Your Aviation Destination"
>
> Congrats Joe!
> Can we look forward to Joe posting his progress at rec.aviation.student?
> ;-)

He can post in here. Love to hear how he does

[SkyDaddy]

Have you found all your shirt buttons yet? Hope they didn't do any
damage when they popped off, papa!

On Jun 22, 10:14 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> My son's first flight lesson came off as planned today,

[Peter Dohm]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> My son's first flight lesson came off as planned today, despite nasty
> weather all around. Amazingly, as if by magic, the skies cleared and
> the winds calmed, right at the appointed time.
>
> Joe walked over to the airport from the hotel, after working several
> hours on the pool and in our future "Flying Tigers Suite". It's
> certainly handy, working just 400 yards from the airport...
>
> Almost three hours later, his flight instructor dropped him off in the
> lobby, and there was my 16-year-old son, logbook tucked under his arm,
> walking through the door as if his feet were still not touching the
> ground.
>
> What a grin! You could see that his face was starting to hurt, from
> stretching so far and for so long, but still that gigantic, self-
> satisfied grin remained firmly in place. His hands moved like moths
> flitting around a flame, and he simply could not sit down, as he
> excitedly told us that "Gary let me land the plane!" -- and he had
> "greased it on"!
>
> He went on and on, while Mary and I just laughed and laughed,
> remembering that giddy, wonderful, almost-scared-but-way-excited
> feeling when we first took those initial steps into the sky.
>
> Tomorrow he starts ground-reference maneuvers. What fun!
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
I remember that feeling well. It's great!

Peter :-)

[Jay Honeck]

> Have you found all your shirt buttons yet? Hope they didn't do any
> damage when they popped off, papa!

Don't worry -- kids have a way of bringing you back down to earth.

Just a few hours after his lesson he was lambasting me for not
teaching him to "lead his turns with the rudder". I tried to tell
him that I was trying to keep it simple for him, that he'd been flying
with me since before his feet even reached the pedals, and that the
Cherokee really doesn't need rudder for standard turns -- but he
wouldn't buy it...

;-)

Five inches of rain here overnight, with more to come. I'll be amazed
if he gets a lesson in today.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article . com>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:

> Just a few hours after his lesson he was lambasting me for not
> teaching him to "lead his turns with the rudder".

eh?

You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?

I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Thomas Borchert]

Bob,

At least he has a CFI who knows the word "rudder".

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> At least he has a CFI who knows the word "rudder".

I'm not sure how to take your reply...

Are there CFI's that don't know the word "rudder"? am
I fortunate to have had some pretty good instructors?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[RomeoMike]

Bob Noel wrote:

>
> I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
> and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

You didn't use rudder for your turns in a 172? I learned in a 172, and
IIRC a turn without rudder was uncoordinated.

[Jay Honeck]

> > I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
> > and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.
>
> You didn't use rudder for your turns in a 172? I learned in a 172, and
> IIRC a turn without rudder was uncoordinated.

Joe's instructor flies primarily tail-wheel aircraft. His main ride
is a 1929 Travel Air -- so you KNOW he knows what a rudder is for.

He thinks tricycle gear aircraft aren't the best to train in -- but
the only tail-dragger available for rent on the field is a Citabria,
and it's not available for primary flight instruction.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
RomeoMike > wrote:

> > I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
> > and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.
>
> You didn't use rudder for your turns in a 172?

Yes, I do use rudder. Perhaps I don't understand exactly
what is meant by leading a turn. I assumed it was using
rudder first instead of simultaneous use of aileron and rudder.
Is that incorrect?

> I learned in a 172, and
> IIRC a turn without rudder was uncoordinated.

I agree.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[RST Engineering]

I might have been teaching it wrong for forty years, but I was taught
simultaneous aileron and rudder.

One of the best exercises I know of for teaching coordination are mild dutch
rolls, say 20° or so of bank continuous left and right for a few miles. It
wears the student out pretty fast until they get the hang of it, but
thereafter their turns are a thing of joy to behold. You can do it coming
home from the practice area until you are almost into the pattern and it
provides a good opportunity to lift a wing and see what is underneath as
well.

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


> Yes, I do use rudder. Perhaps I don't understand exactly
> what is meant by leading a turn. I assumed it was using
> rudder first instead of simultaneous use of aileron and rudder.
> Is that incorrect?

> Bob Noel
> (goodness, please trim replies!!!)
>

[Thomas Borchert]

Bob,

> Are there CFI's that don't know the word "rudder"? am
> I fortunate to have had some pretty good instructors?
>

I'm trying to say that rudder usage is often undertaught.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[john smith]

> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> Just a few hours after his lesson he was lambasting me for not
>> teaching him to "lead his turns with the rudder".

Bob Noel wrote:
> eh?
> You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
> I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
> and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.

[RST Engineering]

Come again? I've got about 2300 hours in taildraggers and once they are a
sheet of paper off the runway, they fly just like a nosewheel airplane.

Enlighten me. My first fifteen years of flying must have been all wrong.

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"john smith" > wrote in message
...

>
> That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger
> pilots.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> > Are there CFI's that don't know the word "rudder"? am
> > I fortunate to have had some pretty good instructors?
>
> I'm trying to say that rudder usage is often undertaught.

roger.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[William Bruce]

Gosh, your story brings back memories. I soloed on my 15th birthday and got
my certificate on my 16th. I think I probably had the same "category" of
grin on both occasions.

Congratualtions. You and your wife have obviously done a good job of stying
close to your son within a terrific family.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> My son's first flight lesson came off as planned today, despite nasty
> weather all around. Amazingly, as if by magic, the skies cleared and
> the winds calmed, right at the appointed time.
>
> Joe walked over to the airport from the hotel, after working several
> hours on the pool and in our future "Flying Tigers Suite". It's
> certainly handy, working just 400 yards from the airport...
>
> Almost three hours later, his flight instructor dropped him off in the
> lobby, and there was my 16-year-old son, logbook tucked under his arm,
> walking through the door as if his feet were still not touching the
> ground.
>
> What a grin! You could see that his face was starting to hurt, from
> stretching so far and for so long, but still that gigantic, self-
> satisfied grin remained firmly in place. His hands moved like moths
> flitting around a flame, and he simply could not sit down, as he
> excitedly told us that "Gary let me land the plane!" -- and he had
> "greased it on"!
>
> He went on and on, while Mary and I just laughed and laughed,
> remembering that giddy, wonderful, almost-scared-but-way-excited
> feeling when we first took those initial steps into the sky.
>
> Tomorrow he starts ground-reference maneuvers. What fun!
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Gosh, your story brings back memories. I soloed on my 15th birthday and got
> my certificate on my 16th. I think I probably had the same "category" of
> grin on both occasions.
>
> Congratualtions. You and your wife have obviously done a good job of stying
> close to your son within a terrific family.

My main goal, ahead of everything else, is that my son earn the
privileges of flight NOW, when we're still able to help him do it.

Like a fool (more like an ignoramus) I blew it off till I was 35 years
old, and wasted three decades on the ground, looking up. Then I had
to do it while I had little babies underfoot, whilst trying to pay for
a home and all the other expenses that go with a young family.

Hopefully, Joe will be able to enjoy general aviation without quite so
much angst...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

Jim, read the attributes for the postings before thinking that they
apply to you.
I responded to Bob who had responded to Jay.
I deliberately arranged the response to show the order and by whom the
statements were made before I sent the posting.
Your apology is accepted. ;-))

> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> Just a few hours after his lesson he was lambasting me for not
>> teaching him to "lead his turns with the rudder".

Bob Noel wrote:
> eh?
> You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
> I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
> and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.

RST Engineering wrote:
> Come again? I've got about 2300 hours in taildraggers and once they are a
> sheet of paper off the runway, they fly just like a nosewheel airplane.
> Enlighten me. My first fifteen years of flying must have been all wrong.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
john smith > wrote:

> > eh?
> > You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
> > I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
> > and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.
>
> That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.

Is leading the turn something a taildragger has to do on the ground?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> He thinks tricycle gear aircraft aren't the best to train in -- but
> the only tail-dragger available for rent on the field is a Citabria,
> and it's not available for primary flight instruction.

How come you are not having him learn in Atlas? Gas consumption so much
more that owning the craft wouldn't make up for renting?
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
>> He thinks tricycle gear aircraft aren't the best to train in -- but
>> the only tail-dragger available for rent on the field is a Citabria,
>> and it's not available for primary flight instruction.
>
> How come you are not having him learn in Atlas? Gas consumption so much
> more that owning the craft wouldn't make up for renting?

I see after reading more posts, asked and answered. I just got home from a
week away, and read the posts, in order.
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> >Five inches of rain here overnight, with more to come. I'll be amazed
> >if he gets a lesson in today.
>
> Yowch. I don't think we've had 5" this year.

Yeah, it's impressive. US Hwy 6, east of Iowa City, was closed
yesterday, under water.

We've got a couple from Cambria, California with us at the inn this
weekend, and all they can do is walk around with their eyes wide open,
marveling at how GREEN everything is! They say that their area, not
far from Hearst Castle, is just golden brown dead, from a drought.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

Bob Noel wrote:
>>> eh?
>>> You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
>>> I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
>>> and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.

john smith wrote:
>> That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.

> Bob Noel wrote:
> Is leading the turn something a taildragger has to do on the ground?


That is correct. You see, because you sit in the front of the airplane
and the wheel that steers is attached to the back of the airplane, if
you want to change direction, you will want to be there before the
tailwheel gets there. Failure to do so results in what is commonly
referred to as a ground loop. :-))

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
john smith > wrote:

> Bob Noel wrote:
> >>> eh?
> >>> You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
> >>> I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
> >>> and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.
>
> john smith wrote:
> >> That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger pilots.
>
> > Bob Noel wrote:
> > Is leading the turn something a taildragger has to do on the ground?
>
>
> That is correct. You see, because you sit in the front of the airplane
> and the wheel that steers is attached to the back of the airplane, if
> you want to change direction, you will want to be there before the
> tailwheel gets there. Failure to do so results in what is commonly
> referred to as a ground loop. :-))

so why did Jay's son complain about leading a turn?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[John Clear]

In article om>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
>We've got a couple from Cambria, California with us at the inn this
>weekend, and all they can do is walk around with their eyes wide open,
>marveling at how GREEN everything is! They say that their area, not
>far from Hearst Castle, is just golden brown dead, from a drought.

There is a drought, but it is also the dry season. I'm about 150
miles north of there, and in this part of California, we usually
don't get ANY rain between June and October. Having lived back
east, the seasons here take some getting used to. Everything is
green during the winter, and dead in the summer. Average yearly
rainfall is in the 15-20 inch range.

I have some friends that moved here from Canada during the summer.
They bought a house with an established garden, and were watering
the plants regularly. They couldn't understand why the plants were
all dying. They took some cuttings to the local nursery, and were
told 'those are drought hardy plants'. My friend's comment was "It
doesn't rain for six months, and if you water the plants, they
die!"

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[john smith[_2_]]

In article >,
Bob Noel > wrote:

> In article >,
> john smith > wrote:
>
> > Bob Noel wrote:
> > >>> eh?
> > >>> You need to use rudder to lead turns in a Cherokee?
> > >>> I only flew a C-150 once, did most of my primary in a C-172,
> > >>> and don't remember my CFI telling me to lead my turns.
> >
> > john smith wrote:
> > >> That's because neither you nor your instructor were/are taildragger
> > >> pilots.
> >
> > > Bob Noel wrote:
> > > Is leading the turn something a taildragger has to do on the ground?
> >
> >
> > That is correct. You see, because you sit in the front of the airplane
> > and the wheel that steers is attached to the back of the airplane, if
> > you want to change direction, you will want to be there before the
> > tailwheel gets there. Failure to do so results in what is commonly
> > referred to as a ground loop. :-))
>
> so why did Jay's son complain about leading a turn?

The first answer is, in a taildragger your don't use the brakes to turn.
If you do use the brakes, you are going too fast.

The second answer is, the instructor was referring to controlling the
aircraft in flight. In a taildragger, you lead a turn with rudder before
adding the aileron.

[Jay Honeck]

>"It
> doesn't rain for six months, and if you water the plants, they
> die!"

Now *that* is funny!

Just got back from an after dinner walk. Everything is green, green,
GREEN, with weeds growing out of literally any nook or cranny that had
a few specks of sand in them.

It's not raining anymore, but the humidity is about 99.9999%. Add
that .00001 and we'd have another torrential downpour...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Thomas Borchert]

John,

> The second answer is, the instructor was referring to controlling the
> aircraft in flight. In a taildragger, you lead a turn with rudder before
> adding the aileron.
>

You still don't get Bob's point, I'm afraid. The point is: How would the
air and the plane "know" that it's a taildragger, once the plane is flying?
And thusly, how would the plane "know" to behave differently in the air
because it has a different wheel (!) configuration?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[RST Engineering]

>
> The first answer is, in a taildragger your don't use the brakes to turn.
> If you do use the brakes, you are going too fast.

If your instructor didn't teach you how to do a one-wingspan turn in a
taildragger, your education is not complete. One of the great things about
a taildragger is the ability to turn in tight spaces. I'd go get some
tailwheel time from a real taildragger instructor.


>
> The second answer is, the instructor was referring to controlling the
> aircraft in flight. In a taildragger, you lead a turn with rudder before
> adding the aileron.

I'll not argue with you for the same reason I don't mudwrestle with pigs.
However, just for our amusement why don't you give us the aerodynamics of
the differences in inflight turns between taildraggers and trainingwheel
aircraft.

Jim

[john smith[_2_]]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> You still don't get Bob's point, I'm afraid. The point is: How would the
> air and the plane "know" that it's a taildragger, once the plane is flying?
> And thusly, how would the plane "know" to behave differently in the air
> because it has a different wheel (!) configuration?

It's the way the airplanes were designed then and now.
Alot of it has to do with adverse yaw and how the ailerons were hinged
then compared to how they are hinged now.
Find an old Champ and see how much of the forward portion of the aileron
extends above/below the wing surface when the aileron is deflected down
on the upgoing wing/down on the down going wing.

[RST Engineering]

I don't think so. Find a C-170 and set it next to a C-172 and compare the
two. Besides, adverse yaw is not WHEN you apply rudder to compensate for it
but HOW MUCH. Again, get yourself some decent taildragger instruction.

Jim



"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Thomas Borchert > wrote:
>
>> You still don't get Bob's point, I'm afraid. The point is: How would the
>> air and the plane "know" that it's a taildragger, once the plane is
>> flying?
>> And thusly, how would the plane "know" to behave differently in the air
>> because it has a different wheel (!) configuration?
>
> It's the way the airplanes were designed then and now.
> Alot of it has to do with adverse yaw and how the ailerons were hinged
> then compared to how they are hinged now.
> Find an old Champ and see how much of the forward portion of the aileron
> extends above/below the wing surface when the aileron is deflected down
> on the upgoing wing/down on the down going wing.

[Newps]

>
>
>>The second answer is, the instructor was referring to controlling the
>>aircraft in flight. In a taildragger, you lead a turn with rudder before
>>adding the aileron.

Really, so this applies with a 180 versus a 182?

[john smith]

>>> The second answer is, the instructor was referring to controlling the
>>> aircraft in flight. In a taildragger, you lead a turn with rudder before
>>> adding the aileron.

> Newps wrote:
> Really, so this applies with a 180 versus a 182?

I don't know. I learned in a taildragger, I always lead with rudder
regardless of what I am flying.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>I don't think so. Find a C-170 and set it next to a C-172 and compare the
>two. Besides, adverse yaw is not WHEN you apply rudder to compensate for
>it but HOW MUCH. Again, get yourself some decent taildragger instruction.

Are there any certified planes (or even experimental) that need zero rudder
input to do a coordinated turn?
--
Jim in NC

[RST Engineering]

Rudder pedalless Ercouples come quickly to mind.

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown
"Morgans" > wrote in message
...


>
> Are there any certified planes (or even experimental) that need zero
> rudder input to do a coordinated turn?
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[RST Engineering]

Your passengers must enjoy the barf-inducing yaw that this provides to them.
I learned in a taildragger too, and I've rarely come across such puppycock.

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"john smith" > wrote in message
...


>
> I don't know. I learned in a taildragger, I always lead with rudder
> regardless of what I am flying.

[john smith[_2_]]

In article >,
"RST Engineering" > wrote:

> Your passengers must enjoy the barf-inducing yaw that this provides to them.
> I learned in a taildragger too, and I've rarely come across such puppycock.
>
> Jim

Okay, how about this answer...
I apply whatever control inputs are required to keep the ball centered
throughout the turn. I don't think about it, I just do it. :-)

[Newps]

john smith wrote:
>>>> The second answer is, the instructor was referring to controlling the
>>>> aircraft in flight. In a taildragger, you lead a turn with rudder
>>>> before
>>>> adding the aileron.
>
>
>> Newps wrote: Really, so this applies with a 180 versus a 182?
>
>
> I don't know. I learned in a taildragger, I always lead with rudder
> regardless of what I am flying.


Some aircraft need no rudder for turns up to about 30 degrees since the
controls are interconnected. The 180 and 182 are the same airplane so
they fly the same.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Rudder pedalless Ercouples come quickly to mind.

You know, I thought about tossing that name down, ad a "besides Recoups" and
decided that they didn't count, because they don't have rudder pedals, so
there is no option to use or not to use.

Any others? It would seem like someone could make it possible with the
right combination of Frieze ailerons, and differential, or some other
combinations.
--
Jim in NC

[Jack Allison]

Uh oh...soon there will be *three* Honecks vying for PIC time in Atlas :-)

Pass along my congrats to Joe. Glad to see him enthusiastically take
the plunge.

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
. ..
> Uh oh...soon there will be *three* Honecks vying for PIC time in Atlas :-)
>
> Pass along my congrats to Joe. Glad to see him enthusiastically take the
> plunge.

Wait 'til the kid asks to borrow the keys...!!

[Montblack]

("Matt Barrow" wrote)
> Wait 'til the kid asks to borrow the keys...!!


....and the gas card! <g>


Paul-Mont