GOO to OSH on gasahol

[RST Engineering]

I have good news and I have bad news.

The good news is that Gail and I are going to go from Grass Valley to
Oshkosh (via Iowa City) next month burning nothing but ethanol-laced
gasahol.

The bad news is that we are going to do it in a Subaru wagon.

Simple math. With the advent of gasahol the only place I can get real
gasoline for the 182 with any degree of confidence is from the Mighty Grape
in IOW. Even then, on-airport "real gasoline" on our route (if AirNav is to
be believed) hovers somewhere between $3.50 and $4 a gallon IF they still
have it. The O-470 was designed back in the days when gasoline was a dime a
gallon and the least costly parameter to worry about. The bottom line is
that fuel costs alone (again using AirNav as a source) for the round trip
GOO-OSH would be $1500.

www.gasbuddy.com shows autogas at $2.98 a gallon (and coming down a few
pennies a week) average on our route and round trip gasoline will run around
$500. Extra time? One day going and one day coming home. I dunno about
y'all, but spending a thousand extra dollars for the privilege of being
thoroughly thrashed by afternoon turbulence isn't clever in my mind.

Yes, I still love the joy and beauty of flight. That sputtering cough as
the engine fires up early on a cool clear morning is one that I'll never get
tired of. But cross country (literally) at 100 knots burning 10 gallons an
hour isn't my cup of tea any more.

Jim


--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown

[Jose]

> ...the only place I can get real
> gasoline for the 182...

> ...But cross country (literally) at 100 knots...

100 knots in a 182? Are you flying or taxiing? :)

If OSH isn't worth the flying, a hundred dollar hamburger isn't either.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[RST Engineering]

>
> 100 knots in a 182? Are you flying or taxiing? :)

In a 1958 boxcar 182, to get fuel burn down to 10 gph if you flight plan for
anything more than 100 knots (from engine start to shutdown) INCLUDING
taxiing, climbing, descending, pattern, taxiing, you are deluding yourself.

Jim


>
> If OSH isn't worth the flying, a hundred dollar hamburger isn't either.
>
> Jose
> --
> You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. net...
>..., a hundred dollar hamburger isn't either.

$100.00 hamburger? Where do you get THAT deal these days? I flightplan
about $ .25 AMU for your average aviation burger.

Some of them are the best I ever had.

Vaughn

[Darrel Toepfer]

"RST Engineering" > wrote:

> I have good news and I have bad news.
>
> The good news is that Gail and I are going to go from Grass Valley to
> Oshkosh (via Iowa City) next month burning nothing but ethanol-laced
> gasahol.
>
> The bad news is that we are going to do it in a Subaru wagon.

My dad pretty much said the same thing earlier this month. I'm holding out
that the prices slide enough to be efficient in the plane. Still a month to
geaux... Flying to San Marcos,TX next week if the weathers good...

[RST Engineering]

The problem is that autogas prices are dropping a few cents a week while
avgas is still going up by about the same amount.

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
8...

>
> My dad pretty much said the same thing earlier this month. I'm holding out
> that the prices slide enough to be efficient in the plane. Still a month
> to
> geaux... Flying to San Marcos,TX next week if the weathers good...

[Jay Honeck]

> The bad news is that we are going to do it in a Subaru wagon.

Damn, Jim, what's it gonna take to see that perty blue and white 182
here at KIOW? Free beer? Free food?

Done.

Alright, already -- I'll kick in a few bucks for gas, too. REAL,
ethanol-free gas, bottled right here in the home of ethanol, Iowa!
I'll kick in the gas it'll take you to fly from here to OSH -- what,
say, 15 gallons?

On the house.

Anything to keep you from flying the Subaru. Dang, I do that all too
regularly, when the thunder-boomers really roar, and it really, really
sucks.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Michelle P]

RST Engineering wrote:
> I have good news and I have bad news.
>
> The good news is that Gail and I are going to go from Grass Valley to
> Oshkosh (via Iowa City) next month burning nothing but ethanol-laced
> gasahol.
>
> The bad news is that we are going to do it in a Subaru wagon.
>
> Simple math. With the advent of gasahol the only place I can get real
> gasoline for the 182 with any degree of confidence is from the Mighty Grape
> in IOW. Even then, on-airport "real gasoline" on our route (if AirNav is to
> be believed) hovers somewhere between $3.50 and $4 a gallon IF they still
> have it. The O-470 was designed back in the days when gasoline was a dime a
> gallon and the least costly parameter to worry about. The bottom line is
> that fuel costs alone (again using AirNav as a source) for the round trip
> GOO-OSH would be $1500.
>
> www.gasbuddy.com shows autogas at $2.98 a gallon (and coming down a few
> pennies a week) average on our route and round trip gasoline will run around
> $500. Extra time? One day going and one day coming home. I dunno about
> y'all, but spending a thousand extra dollars for the privilege of being
> thoroughly thrashed by afternoon turbulence isn't clever in my mind.
>
> Yes, I still love the joy and beauty of flight. That sputtering cough as
> the engine fires up early on a cool clear morning is one that I'll never get
> tired of. But cross country (literally) at 100 knots burning 10 gallons an
> hour isn't my cup of tea any more.
>
> Jim
>
>
Jim,
I can identify with this. My personal flying is down a lot. I used to
fly my plane 100-200 hours a year. I now fly it about 50 hours a year.
It does not hurt that now fly for a living...

Michelle

[SkyDaddy]

On Jun 23, 1:01 pm, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> I have good news and I have bad news.
....

In so very many ways, "SVX!!" does not approach adequate...

[RST Engineering]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> The bad news is that we are going to do it in a Subaru wagon.
>
> Damn, Jim, what's it gonna take to see that perty blue and white 182
> here at KIOW? Free beer? Free food?


Probably, in a couple of dozen years when I get ready to sell it, selling it
to somebody between the Rockies and the Appalachians, between Canada and the
Mason-Dixon line. A circle with a 500 mile radius centered on IOW.


Jim

[RST Engineering]

Huh???

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"SkyDaddy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Jun 23, 1:01 pm, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
>> I have good news and I have bad news.
> ...
>
> In so very many ways, "SVX!!" does not approach adequate...
>

[Newps]

So get a more efficient plane. It would take me 9 hours and 121
gallons, including the stop at IOW. So at $4 a gallon that's about $960
for gas. And that's at 75%. If you're goal is to save money you could
easily shave 20-30 gallons off that total.




RST Engineering wrote:
>>100 knots in a 182? Are you flying or taxiing? :)
>
>
> In a 1958 boxcar 182, to get fuel burn down to 10 gph if you flight plan for
> anything more than 100 knots (from engine start to shutdown) INCLUDING
> taxiing, climbing, descending, pattern, taxiing, you are deluding yourself.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>>If OSH isn't worth the flying, a hundred dollar hamburger isn't either.
>>
>>Jose
>>--
>>You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
>>for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
>
>
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

"RST Engineering" > wrote:

> The problem is that autogas prices are dropping a few cents a week while
> avgas is still going up by about the same amount.

Hey, AvWeb said the price dropped a $.01 last week, we got 4 more to
geaux... ;-) Am I an optimist or waht?

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
. 18...
> "RST Engineering" > wrote:
>
>> The problem is that autogas prices are dropping a few cents a week while
>> avgas is still going up by about the same amount.
>
> Hey, AvWeb said the price dropped a $.01 last week, we got 4 more to
> geaux... ;-) Am I an optimist or waht?

Stan: "It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression!!"

Rich: "It's symbolic of HIS struggle against reality."

[RST Engineering]

It must be nice to be rich enough to flippantly say, "So get a more
efficient plane." For 95% of the flying I do for the company, the flying
boxcar that will carry lead bricks is exactly the platform I need. Buying a
pocket rocket for one trip a year is not in my budget.

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
> So get a more efficient plane. It would take me 9 hours and 121 gallons,
> including the stop at IOW. So at $4 a gallon that's about $960 for gas.
> And that's at 75%. If you're goal is to save money you could easily shave
> 20-30 gallons off that total.

[Gatt]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> It must be nice to be rich enough to flippantly say, "So get a more
> efficient plane." For 95% of the flying I do for the company, the flying
> boxcar that will carry lead bricks is exactly the platform I need. Buying
> a pocket rocket for one trip a year is not in my budget.

LOL! 'If your goal is to save money, buy a newer plane...'

What do I have to do to live on that planet? ;>

-c

[Newps]

RST Engineering wrote:
> It must be nice to be rich enough to flippantly say, "So get a more
> efficient plane." For 95% of the flying I do for the company, the flying
> boxcar that will carry lead bricks is exactly the platform I need. Buying a
> pocket rocket for one trip a year is not in my budget.


Our planes are priced similarly and have similar useful loads. Mine has
250 pounds more useful than the 182 I got rid of. Insurance would be
more. They fly the same.

[Newps]

Gatt wrote:

> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>It must be nice to be rich enough to flippantly say, "So get a more
>>efficient plane." For 95% of the flying I do for the company, the flying
>>boxcar that will carry lead bricks is exactly the platform I need. Buying
>>a pocket rocket for one trip a year is not in my budget.
>
>
> LOL! 'If your goal is to save money, buy a newer plane...'
>
> What do I have to do to live on that planet? ;>

My plane and I are the same age, 42. I didn't say buy newer, I said buy
a more efficient plane.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> It must be nice to be rich enough to flippantly say, "So get a more
> efficient plane." For 95% of the flying I do for the company, the flying
> boxcar that will carry lead bricks is exactly the platform I need. Buying
> a pocket rocket for one trip a year is not in my budget.

Jim, I'm curious what kind of things you do with the plane for buisness,
that requires the load carrying capability? I'm fine with the fact that the
182 is what you need, and buying a effiecient plane to fly to OSH is a
ridiculous notion.

Can you give a hint at the typical mission you fly that utilizes that
special quality, without giving away all of your secrets?

I know; You could say, " I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you!"

Just curious. I would have thought that carring around little avionics and
such and air testing them would have been the typical mission.
--
Jim in NC

[RST Engineering]

Not at all. Some of my missions require taking spectrum analyzer readings
from antennas mounted on the aircraft to find nulls, impedance mismatches,
and the like. The antennas are small light avionics, but the spectrum
analyzer is Hewlett Packard (Patton Tank) quality, weighs about seventy
pounds, and is about double the size of a laser printer. The inverter
required to power it from the aircraft electrical system is about the size
of a small laptop computer, and I need to be able to see the analyzer on the
back seat in order to prove to myself it is working before I hit the
datalogger on the laptop computer to record the data.

Sometimes I also need to bring along the IFR Service Monitor to run
calibration checks in the field and it is about half the same size and
weight as the spectrum analyzer.

Some of my missions are annual inspections and the toolbox with all my
"annual" tools takes up about as much space as your average three-suit
suitcase and weighs in the vicinity of seventy pounds.

The "Oshkosh Trip" annual mission needs Gail's traveler clothes bag, my
clothes bag, all the "stuff" I bring with me to make my forums come to life,
the handouts, and all the rest of it. Two people and the back seat/baggage
area are full to the hatrack with "stuff".

S'owkay?

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"Morgans" > wrote in message
...

> Jim, I'm curious what kind of things you do with the plane for buisness,
> that requires the load carrying capability? I'm fine with the fact that
> the 182 is what you need, and buying a effiecient plane to fly to OSH is a
> ridiculous notion.
>
> Can you give a hint at the typical mission you fly that utilizes that
> special quality, without giving away all of your secrets?

[Morgans[_2_]]

"RST Engineering" > wrote

> Some of my missions are annual inspections and the toolbox with all my
> "annual" tools takes up about as much space as your average three-suit
> suitcase and weighs in the vicinity of seventy pounds.
>
> The "Oshkosh Trip" annual mission needs Gail's traveler clothes bag, my
> clothes bag, all the "stuff" I bring with me to make my forums come to
> life, the handouts, and all the rest of it. Two people and the back
> seat/baggage area are full to the hatrack with "stuff".
>
> S'owkay?
>
> Jim

Yep-urr!

I completely understand your reasons for flying at 0 AGL, but it is a pity
that has to happen.

At least you are going. I won't be, 'cause my back can't stand sitting in a
vehicle for a 1,000 mile one way trip.

Next year, I hope.
--
Jim in NC

[Stella Starr]

RST Engineering wrote:
> I have good news and I have bad news.
>
> The good news is that Gail and I are going to go from Grass Valley to
> Oshkosh (via Iowa City) next month burning nothing but ethanol-laced
> gasahol.
>
> The bad news is that we are going to do it in a Subaru wagon.

Any chance you'll take the wrong exit on the way home and come visit
your new neighbors in Oregon? It sure was nice to see you last summer...

[RST Engineering]

Hmmmm...lessee...two 12 hour driving days plus a 6 hour day to the Saturday
party in IOW then another 6 hours to OSH on Sunday, a forum on Monday, an
author's dinner Monday night, a forum on Wednesday, the Wednesday evening
RAH North 40 party, up early on Thursday, 3 more 12 hour driving days back
to Californicate ...

Maybe not this year {;-), but it was really great to see y'all at your
??sister's?? house last year. Where did you and Oyster move back TO??

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"Stella Starr" > wrote in message
. ..


> Any chance you'll take the wrong exit on the way home and come visit your
> new neighbors in Oregon? It sure was nice to see you last summer...
>

[El Maximo]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Hmmmm...lessee...two 12 hour driving days plus a 6 hour day to the
> Saturday party in IOW then another 6 hours to OSH on Sunday, a forum on
> Monday, an author's dinner Monday night, a forum on Wednesday, the
> Wednesday evening RAH North 40 party, up early on Thursday, 3 more 12 hour
> driving days back to Californicate ...
>
> Maybe not this year {;-), but it was really great to see y'all at your
> ??sister's?? house last year. Where did you and Oyster move back TO??
>
> Jim

You should take flying lessons, and fly to Oshkosh. You would save a TON of
time.

<running and ducking>

[RST Engineering]

Yeah, and I'll bet my students would be better off, too, if I really had a
pilot certificate.

{;-)

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown


"El Maximo" > wrote in message
...


>
> You should take flying lessons, and fly to Oshkosh. You would save a TON
> of time.
>
> <running and ducking>
>

[Montblack]

("RST Engineering" wrote)
> Hmmmm...lessee...two 12 hour driving days plus a 6 hour day to the
> Saturday party in IOW then another 6 hours to OSH on Sunday, a forum on
> Monday, an author's dinner Monday night, a forum on Wednesday, the
> Wednesday evening RAH North 40 party, up early on Thursday, 3 more 12 hour
> driving days back to Californicate ...


What's your "IFR" return route, i-90 thru the Black Hills?

Either way, you'll miss ANE (Twin Cities). Drat.


Paul-Mont

[[email protected]]

On Jun 23, 11:01 am, "RST Engineering" >
wrote:
> I have good news and I have bad news.
>
> The good news is that Gail and I are going to go from Grass Valley to
> Oshkosh (via Iowa City) next month burning nothing but ethanol-laced
> gasahol.
>
> The bad news is that we are going to do it in a Subaru wagon.
>
> Simple math. With the advent of gasahol the only place I can get real
> gasoline for the 182 with any degree of confidence is from the Mighty Grape
> in IOW. Even then, on-airport "real gasoline" on our route (if AirNav is to
> be believed) hovers somewhere between $3.50 and $4 a gallon IF they still
> have it. The O-470 was designed back in the days when gasoline was a dime a
> gallon and the least costly parameter to worry about. The bottom line is
> that fuel costs alone (again using AirNav as a source) for the round trip
> GOO-OSH would be $1500.
>
> www.gasbuddy.comshows autogas at $2.98 a gallon (and coming down a few
> pennies a week) average on our route and round trip gasoline will run around
> $500. Extra time? One day going and one day coming home. I dunno about
> y'all, but spending a thousand extra dollars for the privilege of being
> thoroughly thrashed by afternoon turbulence isn't clever in my mind.
>
Do we think the concatenation of all these macro decisions will result
in any parking places at OSH this year?

Bill Hale




> Yes, I still love the joy and beauty of flight. That sputtering cough as
> the engine fires up early on a cool clear morning is one that I'll never get
> tired of. But cross country (literally) at 100 knots burning 10 gallons an
> hour isn't my cup of tea any more.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
> a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
> the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
> --Unknown

[RST Engineering]

Well, if airplane attendance is down, say, 25% like it was at SNF & the
Piper gig, then we could park automobiles down in the South 40 (aka
FondDuLac North) by the ultralights and get about four to six automobile
spaces for each airplane space that isn't being used.

Howzat?

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown
" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> Do we think the concatenation of all these macro decisions will result
> in any parking places at OSH this year?
>
> Bill Hale

[[email protected]]

Hey Jim,

Any smoke from the Tahoe fire making it your way? I suspect that it
won't since the prevailing winds should take it into Nevada, but since
California tends to suck, I thought it might drift your way... :-)

Dean

[Jack Allison]

Bummer Jim, no Left Coast convoy this year...but I can understand the
cost/time tradeoff. I have it a little better burning roughly 8 gph,
cruising a tad faster, and getting to split the costs two ways. For me,
I figure about 250 gallons of 100ll.

As strange as it sounds, a long x-c drive is something I'd like to
do...someday. Maybe only once :-)

[[email protected]]

I tried this automotive trip theory on a trip from Loveland Colorado
to
Columbus Ohio.

It took 2 long days not 1 short one. I got the same gas mileage in
a van that would carry 3X what the plane would at 1/3 the speed.

Being catatonic on the long trip, was not an option. There were
vehicles 2' away driven by crazy people.

Afternoon of the second day I could hardly stay awake.

When I got home, I kissed my airplane.

Bill Hale

[RST Engineering]

Home at 2330 PDT on Friday, 27 July after leaving OSH 0630 on Thursday, 26
July. First day was OSH-SidneyNE for 13:00 hours driving including a half
hour lunch stop and three or four gas stops. Second day was Sidney-GOO for
19:30 hours (0600 departure, 2330 arrival + 2 time zones). Total driving
time 32:30 hours

Roughly 2200 miles @ 68 mph including stops.

Flying has always been roughly 1900 miles in 18 hours (one way) flight time
(plus gas stops) or roughly 105 mph.

Yes, the 182 cruises at 110 at economy cruise (11.5 gph on the average) plus
climbs, plus patterns, plus deviations around nasty weather plus waiting on
the tarmac because the lineboy went to lunch plus gawdknowswhatall for a gas
usage of 207 gallons.

Driving was 78 gallons for 2200 miles, or 28.2 mpg. This was NOT a pi$$@nt
little economy two-seater but a full-boat Subaru wagon with a cargo area at
least three to four times the 182.

The bottom line with cargas on the average at $2.95 across the country and
avgas at an average of $4.50 across the country?

Subaru - 78 gallons at $2.95 = $230.10

Cessna - 207 gallons at $4.50 = $931.50

Total roundtrip delta ... avfuel $1863 - cargas $460 = $1403

What sort of goodies can YOU buy for your airplane with an extra $1400 in
your wallet?

Jim


--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown

" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I tried this automotive trip theory on a trip from Loveland Colorado
> to
> Columbus Ohio.
>
> It took 2 long days not 1 short one. I got the same gas mileage in
> a van that would carry 3X what the plane would at 1/3 the speed.

Get a better van.


>
> Being catatonic on the long trip, was not an option. There were
> vehicles 2' away driven by crazy people.

Get a second driver.


>
> Afternoon of the second day I could hardly stay awake.

Diet Coke or No-Doz is your friend.

>
> When I got home, I kissed my airplane.

I kissed my wallet, because now I can spend more AMUs on him than on wasting
gasoline on long trips.

Jim

[RST Engineering]

And, umm, the two areas of hard IFR we found in eastern Nebraska/western
Iowa going to and the absolutely impassable snotty line of thunderbumpers in
eastern Nebraska on Thursday night and the crappy IFR ceilings and such on
Friday morning..

Subaru IFR isn't all that difficult {;-)

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown



"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Home at 2330 PDT on Friday, 27 July after leaving OSH 0630 on Thursday, 26
> July. First day was OSH-SidneyNE for 13:00 hours driving including a half
> hour lunch stop and three or four gas stops. Second day was Sidney-GOO
> for 19:30 hours (0600 departure, 2330 arrival + 2 time zones). Total
> driving time 32:30 hours
>
> Roughly 2200 miles @ 68 mph including stops.
>
> Flying has always been roughly 1900 miles in 18 hours (one way) flight
> time (plus gas stops) or roughly 105 mph.
>
> Yes, the 182 cruises at 110 at economy cruise (11.5 gph on the average)
> plus climbs, plus patterns, plus deviations around nasty weather plus
> waiting on the tarmac because the lineboy went to lunch plus
> gawdknowswhatall for a gas usage of 207 gallons.
>
> Driving was 78 gallons for 2200 miles, or 28.2 mpg. This was NOT a
> pi$$@nt little economy two-seater but a full-boat Subaru wagon with a
> cargo area at least three to four times the 182.
>
> The bottom line with cargas on the average at $2.95 across the country and
> avgas at an average of $4.50 across the country?
>
> Subaru - 78 gallons at $2.95 = $230.10
>
> Cessna - 207 gallons at $4.50 = $931.50
>
> Total roundtrip delta ... avfuel $1863 - cargas $460 = $1403
>
> What sort of goodies can YOU buy for your airplane with an extra $1400 in
> your wallet?
>
> Jim
>
>
> --
> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
> in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine
> in the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
> --Unknown
>
> " > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>I tried this automotive trip theory on a trip from Loveland Colorado
>> to
>> Columbus Ohio.
>>
>> It took 2 long days not 1 short one. I got the same gas mileage in
>> a van that would carry 3X what the plane would at 1/3 the speed.
>
> Get a better van.
>
>
>>
>> Being catatonic on the long trip, was not an option. There were
>> vehicles 2' away driven by crazy people.
>
> Get a second driver.
>
>
>>
>> Afternoon of the second day I could hardly stay awake.
>
> Diet Coke or No-Doz is your friend.
>
>>
>> When I got home, I kissed my airplane.
>
> I kissed my wallet, because now I can spend more AMUs on him than on
> wasting gasoline on long trips.
>
> Jim
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"RST Engineering" > wrote:

[snip]
> The bottom line with cargas on the average at $2.95 across the country and
> avgas at an average of $4.50 across the country?
>
> Subaru - 78 gallons at $2.95 = $230.10
>
> Cessna - 207 gallons at $4.50 = $931.50
>
> Total roundtrip delta ... avfuel $1863 - cargas $460 = $1403
>
> What sort of goodies can YOU buy for your airplane with an extra $1400 in
> your wallet?

What would be the point if I drive instead of flying?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Matt Whiting]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Home at 2330 PDT on Friday, 27 July after leaving OSH 0630 on Thursday, 26
> July. First day was OSH-SidneyNE for 13:00 hours driving including a half
> hour lunch stop and three or four gas stops. Second day was Sidney-GOO for
> 19:30 hours (0600 departure, 2330 arrival + 2 time zones). Total driving
> time 32:30 hours
>
> Roughly 2200 miles @ 68 mph including stops.
>
> Flying has always been roughly 1900 miles in 18 hours (one way) flight time
> (plus gas stops) or roughly 105 mph.
>
> Yes, the 182 cruises at 110 at economy cruise (11.5 gph on the average) plus
> climbs, plus patterns, plus deviations around nasty weather plus waiting on
> the tarmac because the lineboy went to lunch plus gawdknowswhatall for a gas
> usage of 207 gallons.
>
> Driving was 78 gallons for 2200 miles, or 28.2 mpg. This was NOT a pi$$@nt
> little economy two-seater but a full-boat Subaru wagon with a cargo area at
> least three to four times the 182.
>
> The bottom line with cargas on the average at $2.95 across the country and
> avgas at an average of $4.50 across the country?
>
> Subaru - 78 gallons at $2.95 = $230.10
>
> Cessna - 207 gallons at $4.50 = $931.50
>
> Total roundtrip delta ... avfuel $1863 - cargas $460 = $1403
>
> What sort of goodies can YOU buy for your airplane with an extra $1400 in
> your wallet?

If you are going to drive rather than fly your airplane, what good are
the goodies? :-)

Matt

[Stella Starr]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Home at 2330 PDT on Friday, 27 July after leaving OSH 0630 on Thursday, 26
> July.

Egad! Where did you bury your wife's body?

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Yes as someone who has attended Osh 9-10 times in the past and always
trailering a Safari helicopter, I know the driving bit. Ken Brock, of the
gyrocopter fame, had said that the rotorcraft aren't good for cross country
work. We found that the helicopter on a trailer behind a pickup with a
slide in camper actually made the same time crossing from California to Osh
as friends in a very fast Long Eze. Weather caused their delays while as
Jim says IMC in my pickup isn't too difficult. Besides we have our "House"
when we get to Osh and even transportation when required. We camp on the
private property just south of the Ultralite runway and have a good view of
the show.
We attend some 13 events each year in support of the magazine and the
camper-trailer combination has earned it's keep. If we keep the speed down
we get about 15mpg in our Dodge Diesel P/U. Looking at the under-wing
campers, and considering we are always there for the entire show, our slide
in camper with refrigerator, shower and toilet looks pretty good.
--
Stuart & Kathryn Fields, Publishers
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478 ph
(760) 408-9747 publication cell
(760) 608-1299 technical cell
www.experimentalhelo.com
www.vkss.com


"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> And, umm, the two areas of hard IFR we found in eastern Nebraska/western
> Iowa going to and the absolutely impassable snotty line of thunderbumpers
> in eastern Nebraska on Thursday night and the crappy IFR ceilings and such
> on Friday morning..
>
> Subaru IFR isn't all that difficult {;-)
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
> in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine
> in the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
> --Unknown
>
>
>
> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Home at 2330 PDT on Friday, 27 July after leaving OSH 0630 on Thursday,
>> 26 July. First day was OSH-SidneyNE for 13:00 hours driving including a
>> half hour lunch stop and three or four gas stops. Second day was
>> Sidney-GOO for 19:30 hours (0600 departure, 2330 arrival + 2 time zones).
>> Total driving time 32:30 hours
>>
>> Roughly 2200 miles @ 68 mph including stops.
>>
>> Flying has always been roughly 1900 miles in 18 hours (one way) flight
>> time (plus gas stops) or roughly 105 mph.
>>
>> Yes, the 182 cruises at 110 at economy cruise (11.5 gph on the average)
>> plus climbs, plus patterns, plus deviations around nasty weather plus
>> waiting on the tarmac because the lineboy went to lunch plus
>> gawdknowswhatall for a gas usage of 207 gallons.
>>
>> Driving was 78 gallons for 2200 miles, or 28.2 mpg. This was NOT a
>> pi$$@nt little economy two-seater but a full-boat Subaru wagon with a
>> cargo area at least three to four times the 182.
>>
>> The bottom line with cargas on the average at $2.95 across the country
>> and avgas at an average of $4.50 across the country?
>>
>> Subaru - 78 gallons at $2.95 = $230.10
>>
>> Cessna - 207 gallons at $4.50 = $931.50
>>
>> Total roundtrip delta ... avfuel $1863 - cargas $460 = $1403
>>
>> What sort of goodies can YOU buy for your airplane with an extra $1400 in
>> your wallet?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
>> in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
>> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine
>> in the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
>> --Unknown
>>
>> " > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>>I tried this automotive trip theory on a trip from Loveland Colorado
>>> to
>>> Columbus Ohio.
>>>
>>> It took 2 long days not 1 short one. I got the same gas mileage in
>>> a van that would carry 3X what the plane would at 1/3 the speed.
>>
>> Get a better van.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Being catatonic on the long trip, was not an option. There were
>>> vehicles 2' away driven by crazy people.
>>
>> Get a second driver.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Afternoon of the second day I could hardly stay awake.
>>
>> Diet Coke or No-Doz is your friend.
>>
>>>
>>> When I got home, I kissed my airplane.
>>
>> I kissed my wallet, because now I can spend more AMUs on him than on
>> wasting gasoline on long trips.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:

> Yes as someone who has attended Osh 9-10 times in the past and always
> trailering a Safari helicopter, I know the driving bit. Ken Brock, of
> the gyrocopter fame, had said that the rotorcraft aren't good for
> cross country work. We found that the helicopter on a trailer behind
> a pickup with a slide in camper actually made the same time crossing
> from California to Osh as friends in a very fast Long Eze. Weather
> caused their delays while as Jim says IMC in my pickup isn't too
> difficult. Besides we have our "House" when we get to Osh and even
> transportation when required. We camp on the private property just
> south of the Ultralite runway and have a good view of the show.
> We attend some 13 events each year in support of the magazine and the
> camper-trailer combination has earned it's keep. If we keep the speed
> down we get about 15mpg in our Dodge Diesel P/U. Looking at the
> under-wing campers, and considering we are always there for the entire
> show, our slide in camper with refrigerator, shower and toilet looks
> pretty good.

A good way to pay for the trip would be to do the helicopter rides.
Three turbine G models were running nonstop during peak times and was
down to just 1 in the early mornings and evenings. They also had a
LongRanger running on Wednesday... Lots of TO/LD's logged by those guys
in the short loop over the parking areas and back to the blimp port...

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Darrel: The FAH boys would frown on me using an Experimental and charging
for the rides. I imagine that EAA would not like the competition either.
No I'm just experimenting with cash flow. I've found a way to have the exit
velocity exceed the input velocity. Aviation.

--
Stuart & Kathryn Fields, Publishers
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478 ph
(760) 408-9747 publication cell
(760) 608-1299 technical cell
www.experimentalhelo.com
www.vkss.com


"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
. 18...
> "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>
>> Yes as someone who has attended Osh 9-10 times in the past and always
>> trailering a Safari helicopter, I know the driving bit. Ken Brock, of
>> the gyrocopter fame, had said that the rotorcraft aren't good for
>> cross country work. We found that the helicopter on a trailer behind
>> a pickup with a slide in camper actually made the same time crossing
>> from California to Osh as friends in a very fast Long Eze. Weather
>> caused their delays while as Jim says IMC in my pickup isn't too
>> difficult. Besides we have our "House" when we get to Osh and even
>> transportation when required. We camp on the private property just
>> south of the Ultralite runway and have a good view of the show.
>> We attend some 13 events each year in support of the magazine and the
>> camper-trailer combination has earned it's keep. If we keep the speed
>> down we get about 15mpg in our Dodge Diesel P/U. Looking at the
>> under-wing campers, and considering we are always there for the entire
>> show, our slide in camper with refrigerator, shower and toilet looks
>> pretty good.
>
> A good way to pay for the trip would be to do the helicopter rides.
> Three turbine G models were running nonstop during peak times and was
> down to just 1 in the early mornings and evenings. They also had a
> LongRanger running on Wednesday... Lots of TO/LD's logged by those guys
> in the short loop over the parking areas and back to the blimp port...

[Darrel Toepfer]

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:

> Darrel: The FAH boys would frown on me using an Experimental and
> charging for the rides. I imagine that EAA would not like the
> competition either. No I'm just experimenting with cash flow. I've
> found a way to have the exit velocity exceed the input velocity.
> Aviation.

Was just an observation...

Of course the guy in the Hummelbird was getting lots of TO/LD's on
Wednesday as well, over on the ultralight field... All by himself... ;-)

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

That one caught my eye also. And that is a rotary wing eye. Maybe in the
future when some of the other projects get done?

--
Stuart & Kathryn Fields, Publishers
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478 ph
(760) 408-9747 publication cell
(760) 608-1299 technical cell
www.experimentalhelo.com
www.vkss.com


"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
. 18...
> "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>
>> Darrel: The FAH boys would frown on me using an Experimental and
>> charging for the rides. I imagine that EAA would not like the
>> competition either. No I'm just experimenting with cash flow. I've
>> found a way to have the exit velocity exceed the input velocity.
>> Aviation.
>
> Was just an observation...
>
> Of course the guy in the Hummelbird was getting lots of TO/LD's on
> Wednesday as well, over on the ultralight field... All by himself... ;-)